S-FM 352: ★ Silent Night 2 ★

[macdougall]

he was a bg

sickfire thanks for reading posts i refuse to

[Achro]

sickfire thanks for reading posts i refuse to

all in a day's job for the neutral.

[Dark Magician]

Marsh, Mac, Arrow, Loldebite, Ikarus and maybe Wisp.

I don’t think it’s the Kitty, I think Stellar is obvious town, Ultra was vibe town to me day 1 and I’m gonna trust Banana to not worry about PoD today and your neutral Achro.

[macdougall]

Is the last assessment consistent in how they play as wolf?

Yep. Sabi cannot fake their level of town solving as mafia and fills the gaps with ate, shit posting, pocketing people they shouldn't be towreading and telling people to stop pushing their townreads etc.

Sabi as town is a compulsive aggressive gamesolver.

Can you actually say Sabi gave a fuck about where their vote ended up yesterday? It's obvious that they didn't to me. Literally look at the vote post.

[powerofdeath]

I must pause and be like why exactly does wolf Kuti, Marshall and Arrow kill Martin?

Does anyone have an answer for this?

I feel like they would want to kill Ultra?

Or did they not kill Martin? Did someone say Martin is dead for some other reason or something?

if i was a wolf team of those three, I would kill Ultra almost every time...

Someone solve that whole thing for me.

Marshmallow Marshall
Ultra
Dark Magician
Achro
Macdougall
Wiisp

^ was Martin's list of his top scumreads he posted at EoD, its possible wolves are in there fearkilling Martin for it.

[ikarusdk]

I must pause and be like why exactly does wolf Kuti, Marshall and Arrow kill Martin?

Does anyone have an answer for this?

I feel like they would want to kill Ultra?

Or did they not kill Martin? Did someone say Martin is dead for some other reason or something?

if i was a wolf team of those three, I would kill Ultra almost every time...

Someone solve that whole thing for me.

Kuti has been largely been lacking in wanting to solve. Kuti's votes were all over the place, but most of them were on banana.
Arrow has been mostly absent in the game and I don't think he was present in EoD to vote?
W!MM might not have killed Ultra given how killing ultra auto points fingers at MM. Although MM was not tunneling on Ultra so I don't think he wanted to kill him.

Martin dying is what is puzzling to me.
I would've definitely killed T!Dark because he wasn't gonna get yeeted yesterday.
Maybe they knew Dark might receive protection? Idk.

[macdougall]

Marsh, Mac, Arrow, Loldebite, Ikarus and maybe Wisp.

I don’t think it’s the Kitty, I think Stellar is obvious town, Ultra was vibe town to me day 1 and I’m gonna trust Banana to not worry about PoD today and your neutral Achro.

Bruv Ika is lock lock town. Take them out of your POE lol.

The rest of your POE is totally reasonable for you to have.

What I recommend you do, is cross correlate your solve with Ultra's and sheep them on their most confident reads. Then just lock the game into automatic and have a chill.

You'll find that the game will slowly but surely destroy the wolves with ease if you do this lol.

[macdougall]

Kuti has been largely been lacking in wanting to solve. Kuti's votes were all over the place, but most of them were on banana.
Arrow has been mostly absent in the game and I don't think he was present in EoD to vote?
W!MM might not have killed Ultra given how killing ultra auto points fingers at MM. Although MM was not tunneling on Ultra so I don't think he wanted to kill him.

Martin dying is what is puzzling to me.
I would've definitely killed T!Dark because he wasn't gonna get yeeted yesterday.
Maybe they knew Dark might receive protection? Idk.

Well as achromatic said, Martin is a bg and probably just stood in front of ultra lol.

[macdougall]

Marshmallow Marshall
Ultra
Dark Magician
Achro
Macdougall
Wiisp

^ was Martin's list of his top scumreads he posted at EoD, its possible wolves are in there fearkilling Martin for it.

Okay so he didn't stand in front of ultra.

Who were his top townreads?

[macdougall]

You are a Gingerbread Bodyguard! At night you may target another player; If they are attacked, you will instead die. Upon death, your brittle body breaks apart and you can list 5 players, learning one townsperson amongst them.

By golly achro was right!

[Achro]

i thought that was a non mafia list lol

[ikarusdk]

Well as achromatic said, Martin is a bg and probably just stood in front of ultra lol.

yeah that makes sense. I was leaning more towards martin nk, rather than successfully bging someone. Does anyonw know if bg target receives feedback on the attack?

[Dark Magician]

Marshmallow Marshall
Ultra
Dark Magician
Achro
Macdougall
Wiisp

^ was Martin's list of his top scumreads he posted at EoD, its possible wolves are in there fearkilling Martin for it.

If Banana is right on MM/Ultra containing one, I can see it.

[ikarusdk]

i thought that was a non mafia list lol

nah that was his poe

[powerofdeath]

Ordered alphabetically. All of these are subject to re-eval in the future, only a select few I don't see myself re-evaluating any time soon (hence the sort of good or meh book structure to emphasize that).

good books (books I have some or significant trust in; both townleans and townreads)
Kuti
Lolde
MM
PoD
Ultra
Wisp* seems like Kuti + Wisp has shipped as towncore and atm I'm inclined to trust, individually though don't have much of an impression on wisp

meh books (books I've not really had any trust in; none are really scum-reads but may be scum-leans)
Achro
Arrow
Banana
DM
Ikarus* in the very awkward state of between meh book and good book; d1 pass as I've mentioned
Mac
Stellaria

Here's probably a better list of his reads

[macdougall]

I actually don't care who is top townreads are cuz Martin is such a random he could have just reevaluated in the night and guarded a scumread lol.

Suffice to say, that he was not directly shot I can assure you of that haha.

But far out good job stopping the shot Martin have a gingerbread cookie buddy.

Why, I hear you ask, are you sure that Martin would not stop the shot?

Well because is my answer. Well, because.

Simply accept it you must.

[macdougall]

Here's probably a better list of his reads

Tbh he might have just been killed cuz his reads were bad lol.

[macdougall]

If Banana is right on MM/Ultra containing one, I can see it.

There has never walked a more obvious town among a mafia game as Ultra has ever been.

[macdougall]

i thought that was a non mafia list lol

I think Martin straight up has zero mafia in his POE and is townreading all the mafia and might have actually been straight popped because of it. It's exactly the type of cynical kill Kuti would make specifically because Kuti can't fake solve so they need things to hide behind like "OMG MAC MARTIN TOWNREAD ME I WOULD NEVER KILL HIM UR FUCKEN STUPID

*SELFVOTES AND LEAVES FOR AN HOUR*"

[macdougall]

Also cuz he voted me til the last minute and has me in his POE you kill him and then hope you can push me as the c/w who the NK was scumreading lol.

I see through your shit Sabi.

[macdougall]

[macdougall]

Achro hold me back bro, hold me back

[macdougall]

Here's probably a better list of his reads

Least Ultra is in the top here so he could feasibly have stood in front of Ultra.

Anyway, I don't care about anything anymore because

a) Kuti is obvious mafia
b) Most of the rest of you are obviously not mafia
c) The names outside the above are so few that you could just chain them all together and win ie. just go like Arrow into Marshall into Debite into Wisp and if we lose well who cares it's just a game lol.

[Achro]

I'm the neutral who wants Kuti dead mechanically, you do you.

But yeah the wolf equity is 100% there and why I marked them.

[Wiisp]

ya Mac has me pocketed now

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Marshmallow Marshall
Ultra
Dark Magician
Achro
Macdougall
Wiisp

^ was Martin's list of his top scumreads he posted at EoD, its possible wolves are in there fearkilling Martin for it.

wat

Martin townread me quite hard with a very good reasoning that actually made me townread him back because he detected my mindset. Where are you getting that lol

Also, I would literally NEVER kill Martin as scum here, for that reason (unless WIFOM I guess)
That said, he was bodyguard. It's possible he died guarding someone. Have we looked for softclaims in his ISO to know who he targeted?

~~

I don't really want to vote Mac anymore today, I will see again day 2 if this still stands

Reading back at EOD. I checked Wisp's ISO, there's nothing indicating any reason to do this at all. He also ended up voting on Kuti at EOD, which feels utterly wrong considering it wasn't an option

Like, I don't understand Wisp's vote pattern from a town perspective. Says he doesn't want to vote Mac anymore for reasons unknown (later on there's a post that says he's "spooked" by mac potentially flipping town, which is like... ???), then votes DM, then votes Banana, allegedly to break Mac/Banana tie, and then ends up on Kuti out of all people.

From a scum Wisp perspective:
- Doesn't want to get too involved into pushing Banana because he digs his own grave by being unusual lol
- Doesn't feel the need to push Mac or to save him either
This feels like a wolf happy to sit away from the lynch to stay safe. OR he's teamed with Macdougall and thought it was best to distance, but in a vacuum (disregarding the fact mac isn't towny), this is less likely.
OR Wisp is actually town, but then I just don't see the thought progression at all.

-vote Wisp

[Achro]

When you can't see the progression is when you know Wisp is peak town tbh

[Ultra]

Why I've been shading dark and pushing.

I received a carol last night.

Names that popped up were Dark, Kuti and MM.

*popcorn*

[Achro]

oh good point
@Marshmallow Marshall

there is a carol between you, Kuti, and DM

so your vote today should be within Kuti/DM from v!you perspective

whatcha got there

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Well maybe not very likely but it’s difficult to think all 3 of us are all town.
I know I am town, I THINK PoD is the wolf here and then there is the Past Ghost who is likely Banana?

EOD1 DM soooo feels like scum me when I'm trying to avoid a mechanical solve that's inevitably going to come against me lol

I am very inclined to think he's the evil medium, which would probably make POD town (and POD's behavior doesn't speak against that afaik)

[Marshmallow Marshall]

oh good point
@Marshmallow Marshall

there is a carol between you, Kuti, and DM

so your vote today should be within Kuti/DM from v!you perspective

whatcha got there

LOL I don't know if that's actually true, but I will certainly have zero qualms doing this

-vote Dark Magician

I guess Wisp can wait.

As for Kuti, perhaps I should ISO them further just to make sure? My townread on them is pretty much just based on two things: no red flags + the "tell me your favorite holiday or I can't do anything aaaa it's not that complicated!!!!!" post (already mentioned this, already know Wisp disagrees, already said I will not be stopped from townreading kuti for it :P), which is not TERRIBLY STRONG anyway

[Wiisp]

oh good point
@Marshmallow Marshall

there is a carol between you, Kuti, and DM

so your vote today should be within Kuti/DM from v!you perspective

whatcha got there

Who claimed the carosel?

[Achro]

ikarus

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Tbh he might have just been killed cuz his reads were bad lol.

Martin's reads don't seem that bad at all to me? Only real disagreement with the list that prompted your reaction (see spoiler below) is Wisp being up in the gook books (see my previous posts)

Spoiler : Martin's list :

Ordered alphabetically. All of these are subject to re-eval in the future, only a select few I don't see myself re-evaluating any time soon (hence the sort of good or meh book structure to emphasize that).

good books (books I have some or significant trust in; both townleans and townreads)
Kuti
Lolde
MM
PoD
Ultra
Wisp* seems like Kuti + Wisp has shipped as towncore and atm I'm inclined to trust, individually though don't have much of an impression on wisp

meh books (books I've not really had any trust in; none are really scum-reads but may be scum-leans)
Achro
Arrow
Banana
DM
Ikarus* in the very awkward state of between meh book and good book; d1 pass as I've mentioned
Mac
Stellaria

Also, being killed for being wrong is um... rare, let's say. It's really just for WIFOM purposes, which isn't all that common.

There has never walked a more obvious town among a mafia game as Ultra has ever been.

Um, I mean, he is towny, considering his reaction to my push on him on early D1, but that's a little exaggerated lol

I think Martin straight up has zero mafia in his POE and is townreading all the mafia and might have actually been straight popped because of it. It's exactly the type of cynical kill Kuti would make specifically because Kuti can't fake solve so they need things to hide behind like "OMG MAC MARTIN TOWNREAD ME I WOULD NEVER KILL HIM UR FUCKEN STUPID

*SELFVOTES AND LEAVES FOR AN HOUR*"

Also cuz he voted me til the last minute and has me in his POE you kill him and then hope you can push me as the c/w who the NK was scumreading lol.

I see through your shit Sabi.

Least Ultra is in the top here so he could feasibly have stood in front of Ultra.

Anyway, I don't care about anything anymore because

a) Kuti is obvious mafia
b) Most of the rest of you are obviously not mafia
c) The names outside the above are so few that you could just chain them all together and win ie. just go like Arrow into Marshall into Debite into Wisp and if we lose well who cares it's just a game lol.

Those three posts really look like posts from an overly confident veteran... but a town one who's like "I'm cool, I know everything, I solve, I rock! *sunglasses on*". And it provides an explanation for reads, which wasn't there before

Honestly I like Mac better now, and scummy Wisp's EOD just reinforces that read

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I want u to be townier buts that's also a skill issue on my part if I can't find u, I think your claim was extremely wolfy, and the way ur using it as some leverage feels even worse, I feel like I'm being gaslit.

Gaslit from what exactly?
Also I am trying to socially show I am town, I’ve been responding to others concerns on me and explain my actions/thoughts.

No ur trying to tell me ur an asset because your role id an asset but that's only true if you are town and I don't think you are being townie right now, "if you don't want to learn info from dead people then sure vote me"

You want to not vote u but also u dare me to vote you basically, it feels gross

This is possible scum theatre. I don't see the "gaslighting" Wisp referred to (unless he just meant that DM is generally rude lol, but I don't think so, especially considering how experienced Wisp is; he knows the terms), and this interaction just makes so little sense, especially since it isn't followed by anything real (i.e. votes), despite being at EOD.

[Achro]

Yeah that sums up mac. I don't think his list is 3/3 tbh but I do think kuti has a lot more wolf equity than DM.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Yes, and the way he phrased it makes me think he's softing medium, because "Hang around after death" wouldn't mean anything to an Oracle; their power fires ON death, and that's it.

Soooo much focus from Arrow on claims and trying to figure out exact roles while giving LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE lol (look at his very short ISO). I know he's rusty, but he still has Mafia in mind and did play FM in the past, so this feels pretty hard to forgive.

Lynching Arrow over Banana would have been such a good move in hindsight.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Yeah that sums up mac. I don't think his list is 3/3 tbh but I do think kuti has a lot more wolf equity than DM.

What? So you scumread POD instead? OR think all three mediums are in fact just town??

Or are you just being neutral doing your job of trying to get your target lynched, and speaking in spite of any logic? xD

[Marshmallow Marshall]

reading back eod1: yes achro, Stellaris is indeed a very good game XD
sawree stellaria

Chopping me on day 1 here is really dumb you guys.

Has anyone even got an actual reason for it? I've been solving the game as reasonably as anyone fmpov. This just seems super dumb.

Yeah, this is probably actually town, because there's no way in Hell, Heaven and anything inbetween that he actually thinks that could pass as scum. He is solving and having reasons for his often one-liner takes... IN HIS MIND. Because D1 mac ISO is definetly not as solvy as, say, Martin's or my own. Reminds me of SmartBomb on MU (a very cool guy if I dare say so myself), but in an overconfident and slightly annoying to play with version lol (don't worry, I don't hate you mac, I just don't like that style. You may call it a skill issue if you so desire.)

[macdougall]

EOD1 DM soooo feels like scum me when I'm trying to avoid a mechanical solve that's inevitably going to come against me lol

I am very inclined to think he's the evil medium, which would probably make POD town (and POD's behavior doesn't speak against that afaik)

This is a pretty towny post lol.

Fuck around and you might force me to care again.

[Achro]

What? So you scumread POD instead? OR think all three mediums are in fact just town??

Or are you just being neutral doing your job of trying to get your target lynched, and speaking in spite of any logic? xD

Eh, I prefer social reads over game setup reads. Those 3 seem OK for now socially, so I am not trying to take a bite out of anyone over a roleclaim THEY forked over without pressure day 1. Seems fine for now imo.

[macdougall]

Martin's reads don't seem that bad at all to me? Only real disagreement with the list that prompted your reaction (see spoiler below) is Wisp being up in the gook books (see my previous posts)



Also, being killed for being wrong is um... rare, let's say. It's really just for WIFOM purposes, which isn't all that common.


Um, I mean, he is towny, considering his reaction to my push on him on early D1, but that's a little exaggerated lol






Those three posts really look like posts from an overly confident veteran... but a town one who's like "I'm cool, I know everything, I solve, I rock! *sunglasses on*". And it provides an explanation for reads, which wasn't there before

Honestly I like Mac better now, and scummy Wisp's EOD just reinforces that read

I phone posted all of day 1 and I'm at my desk so far today if that helps haha.

[macdougall]

This is possible scum theatre. I don't see the "gaslighting" Wisp referred to (unless he just meant that DM is generally rude lol, but I don't think so, especially considering how experienced Wisp is; he knows the terms), and this interaction just makes so little sense, especially since it isn't followed by anything real (i.e. votes), despite being at EOD.

This is also a pretty believable read because I can totally see it as theatre.

Now I want to townread you.

Now we dance.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I feel you are grossly misrepresenting the situation PoD.

I wanted people to pay more attention to Banana. I wanted people not to just give Banana a day 1 pass because supposedly someone on his hydra is new.

Kuti is the prime example of a person doing just that, and did not actually pay any attention to Banana until after I said something.

I made it apparent that if Banana wasn't a hydra, I'd be campaigning for everyone to vote for him.

Marshall outright told me to ask Frinckles. And I did. He was completely unaware of any hydras in this game.

Banana lied about frinckles signing off on Toad joining a hydra. Banana in fact outright admitted to not being in a hydra.

For being one of the top-posters, Banana was actively doing everything he could to not be helpful. And he was lying.

You cannot make me feel bad for being on that wagon. You cannot do it. Do not pass go and do not collect 20

Toad is an old alt of Banana. People who've been around for (very) long know that (like POD). That explains his reaction. I somewhat like your insistance, tbh. However, considering your "banana hydra" stuff is basically the only big thing you've done this game, I am not exactly prone to townread you.

[Achro]

Look, if Kuti isn't a wolf I have no problem marking within those silly mediums

But I also have mech info that kuti lied about their role of giving things so, you know

feel good about my choice~

[macdougall]

reading back eod1: yes achro, Stellaris is indeed a very good game XD
sawree stellaria



Yeah, this is probably actually town, because there's no way in Hell, Heaven and anything inbetween that he actually thinks that could pass as scum. He is solving and having reasons for his often one-liner takes... IN HIS MIND. Because D1 mac ISO is definetly not as solvy as, say, Martin's or my own. Reminds me of SmartBomb on MU (a very cool guy if I dare say so myself), but in an overconfident and slightly annoying to play with version lol (don't worry, I don't hate you mac, I just don't like that style. You may call it a skill issue if you so desire.)

I don't think you read many of my posts if you don't think that I was solving a lot.

I didn't 150 post and write walls, but every post I made served a purpose of solving. Compare that with the intent behind Kuti's posts for instance?

Anyway... it's whatever. I agree that I wasn't as solvy as Martin, but I reckon I was solvier than you lol.

But hey, I also barely read any of your posts and thought you were mafia so maybe I shouldn't comment on other people's solviness when I've only read 20% of the game.

[macdougall]

for all those complaining i didn't have an avatar, it's now been resolved

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Eh, I prefer social reads over game setup reads. Those 3 seem OK for now socially, so I am not trying to take a bite out of anyone over a roleclaim THEY forked over without pressure day 1. Seems fine for now imo.

I mean, I also prefer social reads over setup reads, which is why I love mountainous games, but that doesn't make me literally disregard mechanical clues lol
Also, a scum medium claiming medium is not exactly unlikely, since it's commonly associated with town

I also don't really see what some people seem to see against Kuti (looking at you mac, in spite of your posts, I just don't buy that Kuti actually AIMED AT MARTIN, the bodyguard who died and might just have stood in front of someone else, just to... reverse frame themselves. That's honestly borderline silly xD.)

I phone posted all of day 1 and I'm at my desk so far today if that helps haha.

Oh that might make sense lol

I never understood how people could play FM from such tiny devices. (I just don't do it at all)

This is also a pretty believable read because I can totally see it as theatre.

Now I want to townread you.

Now we dance.

tango tango i guess

[Achro]

also I want to keep both mediums alive so we can get confirmation of martin's town peek

[Achro]

also I want to keep both mediums alive so we can get confirmation of martin's town peek

Oh sorry, correction: I don't care, but town should.