S-FM 209: Surreptitious: The Game of Spies

[Firebringer]

Never unlucky was red checked, and claimed he was a friendly neighbor who told jealoustl that he was town. Jealoustl kind of hesitated and came up with some weird theories and ended up slipping that it was a fake claim, but not out right denying it.

Almost confirms NU and TL being a pair based on the interaction, with the idea of NU taking a town read player down with him very small.

Your slot has about 2 posts total between the two previous players and it came up with a weird theory involving something I was a part of which was very odd IMO. Calix, Jealoustl(now almost confirmed mafia) and secondpassing were extremely town. Your slot pretty much fit into every world of two. Now that we know Jealous is town with NU, it is looking like a klingon/firebringer/jealoustl/never unlucky world.

Works for me:

-vote Never Unlucky

Except that theory stuff or w/e.

[JealousTL]

For the record, I still maintain that I am town. Just a very dumb town who thought he was cautious. And will suicide if there is no consequence to that action in order to save town a lynch if need-be. @Quick , can you confirm that town will suffer any consequences from my suicide, apart from losing a townie? In other words, will the day end or the lynch be wasted?

Also, I suggest you unvote NU for now so that Day 2 doesn't end early.

[JealousTL]

if scum haven't voted for NU yet, they could hammer it now and town would lose a whole day of potential scum-hunting.

[JealousTL]

^ Was just elaborating on what I said earlier so that Firebringer could be caught up with the current plan, wasn't trying to give scum (admittedly obvious) ideas =_='

[Titus]

Jealous claim.

[Firebringer]

Titus doesn't even say hi to me?
What even is this?

[JealousTL]

Already claimed, regular Citizen.

[Firebringer]

For the record, I still maintain that I am town. Just a very dumb town who thought he was cautious. And will suicide if there is no consequence to that action in order to save town a lynch if need-be. @Quick , can you confirm that town will suffer any consequences from my suicide, apart from losing a townie? In other words, will the day end or the lynch be wasted?

Also, I suggest you unvote NU for now so that Day 2 doesn't end early.

So you said you were friendly neighbors with Never Unlucky and then retracted and your reasoning is that you are dumb?
Ummmm no. lol

[Titus]

Titus doesn't even say hi to me?
What even is this?

#sleepposting

Hiiii fire

It's 2 AM

Good night Fire

[Quick]

For the record, I still maintain that I am town. Just a very dumb town who thought he was cautious. And will suicide if there is no consequence to that action in order to save town a lynch if need-be. @Quick , can you confirm that town will suffer any consequences from my suicide, apart from losing a townie? In other words, will the day end or the lynch be wasted?

Also, I suggest you unvote NU for now so that Day 2 doesn't end early.

I will not accept a suicide, sorry.

[Firebringer]

#sleepposting

Hiiii fire

It's 2 AM

Good night Fire

I live on the west coast too Titus!
I knw what time it is.....that I should go to sleep also, and am delirious tired right now.

[JealousTL]

So you said you were friendly neighbors with Never Unlucky and then retracted and your reasoning is that you are dumb?
Ummmm no. lol

No, he said he was the friendly neighbor and that he sent me a message. I never got a message. I didn't know how to proceed, because I thought that it was too ridiculous/dumb of a move, so there must have been something I was missing. I started conjecturing that if he was a town power role of some sort, he would only be able to get someone to save him is if he claims friendly neighbor and they catch on that he must be a TPR? I don't know, it made sense at the time because I didn't think scum would really take a risk that big. Now that I think about it, he had nothing to lose.

Anyway, I said that I didn't want to corroborate or deny the claim, but then in explaining why, I slipped up by copy-pasting from my QT with Quick (where I pretty much rant). That brings us to the situation now.

[JealousTL]

I will not accept a suicide, sorry.

Damn =_=;

[Calix]

Works for me:

-vote Never Unlucky

Except that theory stuff or w/e.

@Firebringer UNVOTE YOU IDIOT, HE'S AT L-2 AND WE STILL HAVE OVER 16 HOURS LEFT

[Firebringer]

No, he said he was the friendly neighbor and that he sent me a message. I never got a message. I didn't know how to proceed, because I thought that it was too ridiculous/dumb of a move, so there must have been something I was missing. I started conjecturing that if he was a town power role of some sort, he would only be able to get someone to save him is if he claims friendly neighbor and they catch on that he must be a TPR? I don't know, it made sense at the time because I didn't think scum would really take a risk that big. Now that I think about it, he had nothing to lose.

Anyway, I said that I didn't want to corroborate or deny the claim, but then in explaining why, I slipped up by copy-pasting from my QT with Quick (where I pretty much rant). That brings us to the situation now.

Huh?

[Firebringer]

@Firebringer UNVOTE YOU IDIOT, HE'S AT L-2 AND WE STILL HAVE OVER 16 HOURS LEFT

Don't tell me what to do!

[Calix]

Don't tell me what to do!

Do it or you're scum trying to end the day early.

[Firebringer]

Do it or you're scum trying to end the day early.

What the fuck is this kind of logic?

[JealousTL]

Huh?

Um...

1. Titus claims that NU is scum and killed RLVG.
2. NU claims that he is Friendly Neighbor and that he messaged me N1.
I catch up to this point of the thread, check my PMs, see that there are no messages there.
I start thinking of the possible reasons why someone would do this, because it seemed like it was almost too dumb of a move.
The only non-stupid idea I could come up with was that he was actually a more important role, but the only way someone could defend him against Titus' claim is if they corroborate the Friendly Neighbor fakeclaim. Like, if say he was Sherif, and Titus' claim is faulty. I should have prefaced this by stating that at the time, I was suspicious of Titus and his sheeptrain, and had been null/townreading NU. Anyway...
3. Because of the assumption that he was a TPR, but still could be scum, I decided to play it safe and say that I neither confirm nor deny that I received a PM from him stating that he is Friendly Neighbor.
4. People start pressuring me, and in trying to explain the above logic, I copy+pasted something from a QT I have with Quick, which is where I ranted about how confused I was at this move.
5. That copy+pasted text had a tell in it that pretty much confirmed it was a fake-claim, meaning that NU was scum.
6. Now everyone thinks I am scum by association, and NU has potentially brought a town down with him.

TL;DR: I made a series of poor choices; instead of seeing that NU's move was desperate and bad because he was going down anyway, I conjectured that he could be a TPR; My stupidity turned an impossible gambit into a success for scum.

[Firebringer]

Um...

1. Titus claims that NU is scum and killed RLVG.
2. NU claims that he is Friendly Neighbor and that he messaged me N1.
I catch up to this point of the thread, check my PMs, see that there are no messages there.
I start thinking of the possible reasons why someone would do this, because it seemed like it was almost too dumb of a move.
The only non-stupid idea I could come up with was that he was actually a more important role, but the only way someone could defend him against Titus' claim is if they corroborate the Friendly Neighbor fakeclaim. Like, if say he was Sherif, and Titus' claim is faulty. I should have prefaced this by stating that at the time, I was suspicious of Titus and his sheeptrain, and had been null/townreading NU. Anyway...
3. Because of the assumption that he was a TPR, but still could be scum, I decided to play it safe and say that I neither confirm nor deny that I received a PM from him stating that he is Friendly Neighbor.
4. People start pressuring me, and in trying to explain the above logic, I copy+pasted something from a QT I have with Quick, which is where I ranted about how confused I was at this move.
5. That copy+pasted text had a tell in it that pretty much confirmed it was a fake-claim, meaning that NU was scum.
6. Now everyone thinks I am scum by association, and NU has potentially brought a town down with him.

TL;DR: I made a series of poor choices; instead of seeing that NU's move was desperate and bad because he was going down anyway, I conjectured that he could be a TPR; My stupidity turned an impossible gambit into a success for scum.

ugh....
I am going to have to read stuff, aren't i....

-unvote

[Calix]

What the fuck is this kind of logic?

There is no town motivation for voting now and risk having the day end early. It does NOTHING because we all know he's scum so scum will just bus him.

Nice evasion of SIMPLY UNVOTING LOL

[JealousTL]

What the fuck is this kind of logic?

It's pretty black-and-white, but yea, you should unvote if you're town. It's not that "if you vote, you're scum" because four people have voted for NU and only 3 are possibly scum, but it's more like "if you don't unvote now that you have been informed, you are acting against the best interest of town, which is suspect."

[JealousTL]

ugh....
I am going to have to read stuff, aren't i....

-unvote

I think I covered the publicly-known facts of the matter pretty accurately, but I guess you can't just take my word for it.

[Calix]

Why the fuck would ANY town fake-claim Neighbour? If there's an actual Neighbour in the game then NU forces them to counter-claim.

No way is that town-motivated when you could just claim your REAL role.

[JealousTL]

Why the fuck would ANY town fake-claim Neighbour? If there's an actual Neighbour in the game then NU forces them to counter-claim.

No way is that town-motivated when you could just claim your REAL role.

Wouldn't claiming his real role (Sheriff) mean that he gets NK tonight, and thus town loses a TPR? What if he was Follower and followed someone that didn't do anything, how could he prove it? So on and so forth. It seemed like Friendly Neighbor would be low on scum's priority list of NK, whereas most of the other roles would be higher. Therefore, claiming FN and trying to get someone to corroborate it in order to save a TPR seemed to make sense at the time.

[JealousTL]

When I said "his real role (Sheriff)" I meant as in "(let's say it's Sheriff for argument's sake)."

[Calix]

Wouldn't claiming his real role (Sheriff) mean that he gets NK tonight, and thus town loses a TPR? What if he was Follower and followed someone that didn't do anything, how could he prove it? So on and so forth. It seemed like Friendly Neighbor would be low on scum's priority list of NK, whereas most of the other roles would be higher. Therefore, claiming FN and trying to get someone to corroborate it in order to save a TPR seemed to make sense at the time.

This is such a far-fetched theory.

1. Assumes NU is an important TPR...which is unlikely.

2. Titus claimed BEFORE groups were chosen, so how the fuck could NU get night-killed if G3 wasn't picked if he JUST CLAIMED HIS REAL ROLE?

3. Friendly Neighbour is a role that CONFIRMS ITSELF AS TOWN TO PLAYERS. That's a high-priority for the scum because it's really not hard to find one townie among a group that cannot die and send them a message so you get a town bloc going.

4. You still haven't said how it's pro-town or useful to try and get a counter-claim. Either the REAL Neighbour isn't a complete moron and has yet to claim or they don't exist. Narrowing down what TPRs we have =/= town-sided.

[Quick]

Um...

1. Titus claims that NU is scum and killed RLVG.
2. NU claims that he is Friendly Neighbor and that he messaged me N1.
I catch up to this point of the thread, check my PMs, see that there are no messages there.
I start thinking of the possible reasons why someone would do this, because it seemed like it was almost too dumb of a move.
The only non-stupid idea I could come up with was that he was actually a more important role, but the only way someone could defend him against Titus' claim is if they corroborate the Friendly Neighbor fakeclaim. Like, if say he was Sherif, and Titus' claim is faulty. I should have prefaced this by stating that at the time, I was suspicious of Titus and his sheeptrain, and had been null/townreading NU. Anyway...
3. Because of the assumption that he was a TPR, but still could be scum, I decided to play it safe and say that I neither confirm nor deny that I received a PM from him stating that he is Friendly Neighbor.
4. People start pressuring me, and in trying to explain the above logic, I copy+pasted something from a QT I have with Quick, which is where I ranted about how confused I was at this move.
5. That copy+pasted text had a tell in it that pretty much confirmed it was a fake-claim, meaning that NU was scum.
6. Now everyone thinks I am scum by association, and NU has potentially brought a town down with him.

TL;DR: I made a series of poor choices; instead of seeing that NU's move was desperate and bad because he was going down anyway, I conjectured that he could be a TPR; My stupidity turned an impossible gambit into a success for scum.

Yes, there is a rule about not Quoting anything from outside the game.. That includes QTs. Don't do it again.

[JealousTL]

This is such a far-fetched theory.

1. Assumes NU is an important TPR...which is unlikely.

2. Titus claimed BEFORE groups were chosen, so how the fuck could NU get night-killed if G3 wasn't picked if he JUST CLAIMED HIS REAL ROLE?

3. Friendly Neighbour is a role that CONFIRMS ITSELF AS TOWN TO PLAYERS. That's a high-priority for the scum because it's really not hard to find one townie among a group that cannot die and send them a message so you get a town bloc going.

4. You still haven't said how it's pro-town or useful to try and get a counter-claim. Either the REAL Neighbour isn't a complete moron and has yet to claim or they don't exist. Narrowing down what TPRs we have =/= town-sided.

1. In struggling to find a reason for his claim to have sent me a PM, it was the best I could come up with. If you refer to that post, (I don't know how to link posts and Quick just told me not to quote from outside the thread so I won't quote it again), I had two possibilities in mind and both of them involved him obviously not being FN. It was either that he was a TPR, or he was scum who was inferring he was a TPR. I figured that if I throw him under the bus and he was actually a TPR, I would feel very dumb. If he was scum, Titus already said he was scum and had a train going, so in theory if I did nothing then it would continue. So, being pressured for an answer, I tried to go middle-of-the-road and not confirm or deny it because I simply wasn't sure which world made more sense at the time (remember, I was scumreading Titus + crew for how they were seemingly in cohorts, implying out-of-thread contact).

2. Because it would be Titus' claim which already had backing vs. NU's claim, which at the time of analysis I assumed was too risky to divulge. I wrote that possibility (him claiming a TPR in thread) off entirely.

3. I don't think it's that easy to be 100% of a townie at the end of D1 but I'll take your word for it. In my eyes, you don't know what alignment is on the receiving end of your PM. It's still risky.

4. Not sure I understand this point. Can you rephrase the question?

I'll have to answer tomorrow, though. It's very late here and I have business during the day. I will be back before Night to vote if he hasn't been hammered early.

Also, I don't really think there is much point in saying more, I don't think I will say anything new about my thinking process at the time this happened - better to invest time in looking for scum. My parting request is that you consider the world from my eyes before NU's claim:

1. I was townleaning NU.
2. I was distrustful of the spontaneous train that formed on him that apparently used information that wasn't present in the thread (apparently conveyed in code that I do not know).
3. No one showed any of the supposed analysis or evidence that they were claiming existed to prove NU was scum.

.: Scum blitz and NU wanted to be saved.

I was right about the wanting to be saved part, just not the why ;

[Quick]

@Shapelog has until the end of the day to let me know they are still playing and plan to post or I will replace them.

[Quick]

I recommend all of you check you QT I linked to you at least once a day.

[Yukitaka Oni]

There is no town motivation for voting now and risk having the day end early. It does NOTHING because we all know he's scum so scum will just bus him.

Nice evasion of SIMPLY UNVOTING LOL

Something tell me Firebringer hasn't recovered his play style yet...

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Calix yelling at firebringer feels fake.

Fire shouldn't be putting NU to L-2, but it doesn't actually matter. I would have voted NU, but I wanted to troll vote people.

Jealous wont hammer because he is trying to do damage control, and hammering is not damage control, but ensures that 99-1 world we are in goes to confirmed mafia.
The other 2 scum won't hammer because they are either already voting or will draw our attention.

[Gingerape]

I wanna vote >:
Yuki~! The mafia are probably going to kill one of us three town members in group 3 tonight ;~;
I'm scared, will you hold me?

[Kovath]

Yes, there is a rule about not Quoting anything from outside the game.. That includes QTs. Don't do it again.

...

Uhhh... Does this confirm that message was actually posted in his QT?

[Quick]

...

Uhhh... Does this confirm that message was actually posted in his QT?

I also have a rule that states threatening to break a rule is just as bad as breaking it.

[Never Unlucky]

Ducky, what should I have done after being red-checked? ^^

[Kovath]

Ducky, what should I have done after being red-checked? ^^

Tried to force a 1v1.

[Yukitaka Oni]

I wanna vote >:
Yuki~! The mafia are probably going to kill one of us three town members in group 3 tonight ;~;
I'm scared, will you hold me?

I got'chu fam

[Yukitaka Oni]

Ducky, what should I have done after being red-checked? ^^

Fite me noob, 1v1 me faggot, i rekt your mom (a wise word from call of duty kid player)

[Yukitaka Oni]

If tonight, group 3 still being killed, then there are 2 mafia in group 3, don't you think? (If never unlucky flip scum)
If group 1-2 killed then the scum change the target.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Ducky, what should I have done after being red-checked? ^^

Insta counterclaim bodyguard if you think you will die to force out a medic. That is what I would have done in your position with this setup. The bodyguard would not have counterclaimed you though. Titus was also pretty town read except by a few people.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Tried to force a 1v1.

Why are you even here? Go play chess.

[Kovath]

Why are you even here? Go play chess.

Last game in 1.5 hours and then I fly home in the evening.

Go to... the gym or something.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Last game in 1.5 hours and then I fly home in the evening.

Go to... the gym or something.

Only one grandmaster allowed in this town at a time, so you may take your leave. I hope your role is the one that leaves town at night.

We kinda waste the time we have since we really need to interact with group A

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

OH THE QUICK TOPICS ARE FOR MOD QUESTIONS... whoops.

I have been putting in random reads and notes. I was about to go full disney musical in that bitch. Quick probably fucking hates me seeing all the "new messages" just to see ANDDDDDDDD I CANT WAIT TO BE MVPPPPPPP. Everybody look left everybody look right ........ standing SPOTLIGHTTTTTTTT

[Kovath]

OH THE QUICK TOPICS ARE FOR MOD QUESTIONS... whoops.

I have been putting in random reads and notes. I was about to go full disney musical in that bitch. Quick probably fucking hates me seeing all the "new messages" just to see ANDDDDDDDD I CANT WAIT TO BE MVPPPPPPP. Everybody look left everybody look right ........ standing SPOTLIGHTTTTTTTT

Are you drunk again Duck

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Are you drunk again Duck

misrep

-vote kovath

[JealousTL]

If tonight, group 3 still being killed, then there are 2 mafia in group 3, don't you think? (If never unlucky flip scum)
If group 1-2 killed then the scum change the target.

If NU is the only scum then there won't be a G3 anymore. If there is another scum, then I would suspect that yes, scum will aim for G3.

[JealousTL]

OH THE QUICK TOPICS ARE FOR MOD QUESTIONS... whoops.

I have been putting in random reads and notes. I was about to go full disney musical in that bitch. Quick probably fucking hates me seeing all the "new messages" just to see ANDDDDDDDD I CANT WAIT TO BE MVPPPPPPP. Everybody look left everybody look right ........ standing SPOTLIGHTTTTTTTT

Yea, I was doing the same thing. It gets lonely. On TL, you can request a "coach" that you have a QT with, so you can bounce ideas off of them. So instead of bouncing ideas off of a human being I was sending messages to Quick who obviously didn't answer ;-;