More is less

[Slaol]

What is your issue with the game? Your biggest issue? Post it here, and then post what you would ADD to allow it to be fixed/balanced/negated/whatever. For the most part things won't be removed, ever. So, what could we add that might fix things?
Kidnapper was added to nerf the heck out of Jailor.
Agent was added to nerf the heck out of Detective and Lookout.

What is your largest issue, and what would you add to fix it?

[SuperJack]

I have no Issue with it, I love it the way it is right now. But I also like the plans you have for it in the future

In other words: You have done a great job, and the plans look like they continue this greatness.

[Dagaen]

Obviously cheaters, leavers, trolls and people who can't read:P

Oh, mechanical-wise?

1. Marshall. The only proper way to use it is when town knows for sure that 2+ people are 100% bad guys. So in high levels game Marshall is just a Citizen with auto-confirm option, in every other it just helps Mafias. Now, I don't want to say that Marshall should be buffed, because weaker roles are fine with me (I love Citizens!), but Marshall just encourages town to random lynch and I don't think Town really needs it. Perhaps after revealing day should be prolonged so town doesn't feel forced to make rush decisions? Or if majority of lynched players were town-aligned random guilty voter will become demoted into Citizen? I really don't have better ideas now, but I hate Marshall for making random lynches easier.

2. Some roles from epicmafia are so awesome they should be implemented. E.g. Angel (neutral benign with superior healing ability who wins when person he's protecting survives till the end) or my favourite - Voodoo lady (at night choosing 4-letter word and target person, when this person says this word he dies instantly - in epicmafia it's Mafia role, but I think it should be evil neutral).

3. I wouldn't mind if Vigilante had dn option. I know it makes him easier to prove himself, but after being put in one group with SK and Mafioso I think he deserves it. Right now, after successful kill Vigilante can reveal himself and be proven town anyway, so why not?

4. I don't know if this was changed but I don't see Coroner in games anymore. Is that a bug? My Setup has few town randoms, Coroner is not excluded and after ~100 games I still haven't seen him once. Give me back my Coroner!

EDIT: I really had to force myself to think of those things. Obviously I also love the game as it is:P

[SuperJack]

Voodoo lady would really help to kill trolls... XD

[Voss]

Obviously cheaters, leavers, trolls and people who can't read:P

Oh, mechanical-wise?

1. Marshall. The only proper way to use it is when town knows for sure that 2+ people are 100% bad guys. So in high levels game Marshall is just a Citizen with auto-confirm option, in every other it just helps Mafias. Now, I don't want to say that Marshall should be buffed, because weaker roles are fine with me (I love Citizens!), but Marshall just encourages town to random lynch and I don't think Town really needs it. Perhaps after revealing day should be prolonged so town doesn't feel forced to make rush decisions? Or if majority of lynched players were town-aligned random guilty voter will become demoted into Citizen? I really don't have better ideas now, but I hate Marshall for making random lynches easier.

2. Some roles from epicmafia are so awesome they should be implemented. E.g. Angel (neutral benign with superior healing ability who wins when person he's protecting survives till the end) or my favourite - Voodoo lady (at night choosing 4-letter word and target person, when this person says this word he dies instantly - in epicmafia it's Mafia role, but I think it should be evil neutral).

3. I wouldn't mind if Vigilante had dn option. I know it makes him easier to prove himself, but after being put in one group with SK and Mafioso I think he deserves it. Right now, after successful kill Vigilante can reveal himself and be proven town anyway, so why not?

4. I don't know if this was changed but I don't see Coroner in games anymore. Is that a bug? My Setup has few town randoms, Coroner is not excluded and after ~100 games I still haven't seen him once. Give me back my Coroner!

EDIT: I really had to force myself to think of those things. Obviously I also love the game as it is:P

+1 to the marshall idea,

and give more points to people who play citizens, might bring more balanced games back to sc2 mafia.

[SuperJack]

Maybe Voodoo could go into cult?

[Damus_Graves]

Trolls, Idiots, Cheaters, and AFKers.

[CmG]

Crier, noobshals, up framers, Afk's. Boring neutral killer choices. Leave trains. chain drops. French.

[Raptorblaze]

The lack of bugfixes for the playerbase module. The playerbase desperately needs to be patched and upgraded.

[CmG]

Do you know how hard it is to teach monkeys to write in english? This never gonna happen!

[Slaol]

I have no Issue with it, I love it the way it is right now. But I also like the plans you have for it in the future

In other words: You have done a great job, and the plans look like they continue this greatness.

What do you know of my plans? >.>

[Slaol]

You people are bad at posting your suggested solutions to the problems...
only Dagaen went into detail on his thoughts.

[AppleyNO]

Veterans! There shouldn't more than 2 Veterans that spawn in randomly, cause then they pretty much overpower any other force.

Especially when they have unlimited alerts and can pierce immunity.

[maccabbe]

My biggest issue are mayor/marshall who can autoconfirm and gather roles, which is a boring but efficent way to play these roles. I would add some danger to these options, either an evil role which can pretend to be mayor/marshall or a way for mafia to use information against them (like vent from epicmafia).

Obviously cheaters, leavers, trolls and people who can't read:P

Oh, mechanical-wise?

1. Marshall. The only proper way to use it is when town knows for sure that 2+ people are 100% bad guys. So in high levels game Marshall is just a Citizen with auto-confirm option, in every other it just helps Mafias. Now, I don't want to say that Marshall should be buffed, because weaker roles are fine with me (I love Citizens!), but Marshall just encourages town to random lynch and I don't think Town really needs it. Perhaps after revealing day should be prolonged so town doesn't feel forced to make rush decisions? Or if majority of lynched players were town-aligned random guilty voter will become demoted into Citizen? I really don't have better ideas now, but I hate Marshall for making random lynches easier.

2. Some roles from epicmafia are so awesome they should be implemented. E.g. Angel (neutral benign with superior healing ability who wins when person he's protecting survives till the end) or my favourite - Voodoo lady (at night choosing 4-letter word and target person, when this person says this word he dies instantly - in epicmafia it's Mafia role, but I think it should be evil neutral).

3. I wouldn't mind if Vigilante had dn option. I know it makes him easier to prove himself, but after being put in one group with SK and Mafioso I think he deserves it. Right now, after successful kill Vigilante can reveal himself and be proven town anyway, so why not?

4. I don't know if this was changed but I don't see Coroner in games anymore. Is that a bug? My Setup has few town randoms, Coroner is not excluded and after ~100 games I still haven't seen him once. Give me back my Coroner!

EDIT: I really had to force myself to think of those things. Obviously I also love the game as it is:P

1. The marshall is one of, if not the most powerful town role and does not need to be made stronger. You don't need to know multiple people are mafia, if there are conflicting reports or just not that many people he can be used to lynch both. As for making a random guiltier a citizen, I don't like the idea of randomizing it.

2. Wouldn't mind angel but voodoo, as it is in epicmafia, would result in good players talking in 3 letter words every game, which would just be annoying. It's why voodoo is not in any competitive epicmafia setups.

3. Anyone can claim they were the vig who shot unless there was a death note and I personally hate confirmed towns.

4. Add a confirmed janitor to your setups, coroners chance to spawn is increased with them.

+1 to the marshall idea,

and give more points to people who play citizens, might bring more balanced games back to sc2 mafia.

This was already implemented https://wiki.sc2mafia.com/en/index.php/Citizen

[Anguss]

Extra points to jailors who randomly execute on night 1

[Dagaen]

I didn't say Marshall should be made stronger, just different. Right now Marshall doesn't do anything that Town couldn't do without him. If you know 2 guys are confirmed Mafia you can just lynch them in 2 days. In late game if Town still needs tp lynch twice or more per day that's a good chance that Mafia is already winning and can influence a voting. Basically Marshall is useless in almost every situation when you think about it.

Ok, I'll let myself change my point of view and try to give example of situation when without Marshall Town loses.

1 x SK, 1 x Mafia, 2 x Town (with Marshall) - let's try this one. 1SK/1M/3T doesn't work, because town can easily win without him. Ok, so Marshall reveals and Town can now vote, but we are in bullet time, we have hours to think what to do. In perfect situation everybody 100% knows who is SK and who is Mafia - otherwise it is just random, right? So, in such perfect situation why gf or sk would vote? They have to know that if they lynch another one they will be killed next. It's probably better for both of them to skip and hope for 1v1v1 situation in which they can try to convince remaining townie. And what if town doesn't know who is who? Then it's just randoming in which Town is very likely to lose (I'm not good with probabilistics, but assuming that confirmed Marshall wouldn't be lynched and someone is lynched at random, the chance of lynching both bad guys is like 1/6).

If you can think of example when "-lynch" means 100% win for town, without bad guys able to do smth, please give me an example. Right now Marshall means mass random lynching and I think this kills the game, just like some kind of stupid setups with all killing roles.

EDIT: Just got another idea how to fix Marshall. After "-lynch" you may vote people as usual, but they don't get insta-lynched, just "selected". When day ends or all "selections" are finished, there goes extra phase of mass trials. First selected person gets trialed, then another one etc. Town may vote inno/guilty on every one of them. In the end all guilted people get lynched at the same time and their roles are revealed. This will help Marshall to be less about randoming and more about thinking.

[RLVG]

Personally, the game is great as it is but there's a few issues / nitpicks / suggestions :

Spoiler : Lolspoiler :

Marshall :
- Confirms himself then encourages random lynching, random is bad. Give Marshall option to cancel multiple lynches after the reveal.
- The time is limited, making players rush.
- Endgame, 3 players ; Marshall wants to lynch the two, instead the game trolls and say "You need 2 votes." a waste of time waiting for day to end. Just auto-decline a trial vote when there's 2 players remaining or allow in such a situation for a player to self vote.

Mass Murderer :
- Some setups make the MM vulnerable and can target self = suicide. Why not vulnerable but can selftarget with no risk of suicide?

Arsonist :
- Takes forever to rack up possible kills and if they die it's a waste of time. How about ability to kill a single previously doused target if killing all at the same time is not a current option?

That's the role parts. Now I'm going with mechanics :

Setup Phase :
- Not everyone knows Repick even today. Add a button that asks to repick / maybe with a color.
- When someone loads a save, you can't see the options of the save. (Good role setup, horrible options. GF with no options enabled etc)
- When someone leaves, there's two problems : 1. You don't know who is around sometimes, 2. You don't know how many players. This results a problem when trying to balance the setup with less roles.
- There is quite many troll setups, so if possible: Make a Rating System at the end of game, when players can vote in stars how good or bad setup is. (Of course, players can only vote once per setup)
- It could help with multiple Unique Role-Sets in the same setup. E.G Any Random 1 : Mafia, Neutral. Any Random 2 : Neutral, Town.

Death Descriptions :
- Some setups would be a lot more fun yet more difficult, if there was a Mode enabling Related Kills. (MM & Veteran having same kill description, Vigilante and Mafioso, etc).

Last Will :
- For players like me, it's still too small. Why not add an extra LW Line for every 3rd-4th day? Day 1-4 : 1 LW Line, Day 5-8 : 2 LW Lines, maybe a limit for up to 4 or 5 lines.
- There should be a sepperate menu for reading Last Wills, scrolling is kind of annoying. Perhaps a click option in graveyard, encouraging players to use it more.

Graveyard :
- It should be open by default.
- Showing the Day / Night of death next to the player's name would help.

Day :
- There should be a button with Skip rather than typing it.
- There should be a Mode that enables a mandatory vote from all players, Abstain button included.

Misc :
- It would be fun with a score screen of yourself, how many times you have won with X roles and how many times you have lost with X roles.

[Deantwo]

Biggest issues:

1. Blizzard
2. StarCraft 2

Suggestion:

• Make the game standalone.

If you think about it most of all our issues with SC2Mafia, is because of how StarCraft2 works.
It is easy to (Point-) Hack, Cheat, and Troll (by inviting AFK players to lobby, pausing the game, lagging, etc.) because we are using StarCraft2.

StarCraft2 is no longer a good platform for Mafia. Town of Salem has the right idea, but it has some way to go.

[CmG]

Remove all autoconfirmed roles. Every damn game has one role which just autoconfirms its identity and gets every role pm'ed to them. They just lynch the non pmer bad liers. I played 5 games in a row today and it was always the same. This is soooooo boring. Disable the -pm function for good. Thank you!

Crier adds nothing to the game.

Marshall ends in lynching 1 scummy guy and 2 - 3 random guys as well. It's contra productive for the game flow.

Fix that a witch doctor can't be alone in a setup it's retarded. He has to hit every heal every night to have a real chance to win the game.


Autokick for afk players after 3 days and nights would be nice. I think we all experienced games where we lost because a town was afk and we couldn't vote anyone. This should at least fix one of those games. Also give them a point penalty of - 50 points and add a new counter who counts the afk kicks.

[yzb25]

I've seen a lot of people complain about the Marshal and auto confirm styled roles. Some people have even claimed that Marshal is useless. I'm going to state what I want changed and then get into a 10 comment argument with the rest of you :P

I know you probably don't want to hear about implementations. But could you expand and possibly revamp the "exclude from randoms" to allow more customization e.g. ban doctor from town core but not in town protective meanwhile banning sheriff altogether and making sure only a maximum of 1 or 2 BDs can appear in a save. This is a really ambitious idea, I know. So if you can't be bothered at least try to implement an exclude from randoms tickbox for all roles and add a maximum number of times a role can appear randomly in a save? (maybe as a tickbox or maybe add a scroll down so you can specify the actual number). This is just a nice feature that allows for A LOT more customization. And I love creative saves despite what all the raging standard-loving peeps say!

Now, I just want to say, MARSHAL IS PERFECT AS HE IS. I mean it. And so are all the other power roles. You know what I think the problem is? You people lack creativity on a massive scale. If the thought of a mayor / marshal / whatever revealing d2 and asking for pms scares you as you can't think of a correct blag, really? You can just pm him "doc" or something AND HE WILL PROBABLY FORGET. If you've ever been a mayor and tried that, keeping up with 13 claims is simply impossible. Then you have to try and get a lw out of them, question that lw, trust me it's impossible. If an end-game mayor reveal and asking for roles scares you, then end-game in general probably scares you. There's always that commander-mentality-guy end game who becomes the mayor (he assigns himself as leader :3), even if he's not and makes everyone reveal.

So what is the real use of mayor / marshall? To me, it's a "I'm boss do what I say button". When a marshal reveals, he is the one truly confirmed town and therefore the one true leader. Most games are chaotic with everyone trying to say what they think is important. Realistically, chaos favors the mafia. A leader cuts the crap. He has the final say and when he says "shut up or I'll lynch you" they listen. He brings order and, even though he doesn't give you physical help in the same way a sheriff or a doctor does, he's extremely important and should not be underestimated.

[Fubby]

Some roles are very boring, like sheriff and Doctor. I honestly dont think that is fixable though.

Aside from that the only problem is how bad the community can be. It is frusterating when you have that one confirmed mafia by sheriff LW but no one cares because "Obvious exe" or whatever.

[kyle1234513]

number1 thing I hate, the lack of ingame moderation, theres no active prevention, only hind sight review.

the fix - more mandatory in game moderators who can handle things on the spot.

[ika]

number1 thing I hate, the lack of ingame moderation, theres no active prevention, only hind sight review.

the fix - more mandatory in game moderators who can handle things on the spot.

So we make most active game players mods? you need to make TUSTED people mods. thats why we have the report system here, to report the ppl who break rules, even if every game had a mod theres no stopping new mods fom mod abuse and it wont certenly stop players from breaking rules.

mods probally have to learn a lot and take a lot of time to decide, if invest is saying this person they investigated is sk and flips town, is it gamethorwing? Jailor random exe with no reason on night 1, is that gamethorwing? what is to stop a player from forging a last will saying jailor is random exeucuting when hes not, mods cant see the jail chat, he cant do anything untill post game

Ive played a game where we had 2 admins and a mod and ppl still skyped.

Another game i was with a mod and we had 4 skypers in there, unsure if mod revealed but they all went after revaled marshall and lynched him, some of them were towns, reall the fact is that mods in game dont exactly stop it, i might do it in some games but it wont help in long run

[Kirdaiht]

The biggest problem I have is with the busdriver.
Currently, he is sided with the town, but his ability is anti-town. A busdriver might be able to redirect a kill, blackmail or roleblock back to the mafia, but he's just as likely to redirect a heal to the mafia, or a vigishot/roleblock to the town. Then there is the part where he's guaranteed to fuck up the investigations. I have only seen very few cases where a busdriver managed to use his ability to help the town, where I have been in several dozen towns where the busdriver would have been more usefull never using his ability at all.

I personally think he'd be more interesting on the side of the mafia.

[TheDarkestLight]

The biggest problem I have is with the busdriver.
Currently, he is sided with the town, but his ability is anti-town. A busdriver might be able to redirect a kill, blackmail or roleblock back to the mafia, but he's just as likely to redirect a heal to the mafia, or a vigishot/roleblock to the town. Then there is the part where he's guaranteed to fuck up the investigations. I have only seen very few cases where a busdriver managed to use his ability to help the town, where I have been in several dozen towns where the busdriver would have been more usefull never using his ability at all.

I personally think he'd be more interesting on the side of the mafia.

This makes Doctors useless.

Doctor targets A
Mafia Driver targets B, A
Mafia targets B
Mafia kills A, Doctor heals B
Same with BG.

[Kirdaiht]

This makes Doctors useless.

Doctor targets A
Mafia Driver targets B, A
Mafia targets B
Mafia kills A, Doctor heals B
Same with BG.

This problem can be averted with the right order of operations.

Currently, it would be
Driver drives
bodyguar guards
killer kills
invest invests
doctor doctors
driver returns targets.

This can be changed to:

Bodyguard guards
Driver drives
killer kills
invest invests
driver returns targets
doctor doctors.

[Unentschieden]

Increasing the pace of play - sometimes the RNG is nasty and you die early. Roles without "stakes" in the game anymore should get their points and be allowed to leave and thus start another game.
Make last words optional. For me they just drag out lynches, if there is something important to say it´s in the lw.
Make choosing executions a profilesetting like "-execution fire". You know, save thouse precious seconds.
Write on the classcards what their RNG category is "Support".
Give Doctors points for healing allies, if only to reduce the d1 doctorsuicides.
Memorials, something to take your place once dead that takes your place in the conference ring, just to have more fun stuff to unlock.

[Poriomania]

The thing with the busdriver is that I use it to auto-confirm myself as town.

[Cryptonic]

There needs to be a Neutral that affects daychat. Add Ghost or Ventriloquist, srsly.

[ypmagic]

I hate how Blizzard controls our game. Make a custom game and submit it to Steam Greenlight so we can use the Steam Servers to gain popularity and make the game much better with our own lobbies and stuff. Like how Dota 2 split from Warcraft 3.

[Anguss]

I hate how Blizzard controls our game. Make a custom game and submit it to Steam Greenlight so we can use the Steam Servers to gain popularity and make the game much better with our own lobbies and stuff. Like how Dota 2 split from Warcraft 3.

Kay. Get to work programming it.

[Slaol]

If a Mafia Bus Driver, lets call it chauffeur, was put in- it appears to be the death of protective roles, but I suggest you consider what a lookout would see if he watched the mafias swapped target.

[Cryptonic]

If a Mafia Bus Driver, lets call it chauffeur, was put in- it appears to be the death of protective roles, but I suggest you consider what a lookout would see if he watched the mafias swapped target.

Then make it so it's a Mafia aligned BD that notifies town of the swapping, but doesn't actually swap.. or only swaps investigative pairings or something.

[Slaol]

Nah, crypt, my point is that lookout would catch the chauffeur, and assume he was the mafia killer. Town would still have defenses.

[Mateo]

Role: Matt
Description: A pretty cool guy
Alignment: Neutral
Win Condition: You are Matt, you've already won.
Special Abilities: 1) Take someone out for a beer, blocking their night action and turning them into a Friend of Matt
2) Friends of Matt only goal is to help Matt. They retain their original abilities.
3) All Friends of Matt share night chat with Matt
4) Anyone who targets to kill Matt automatically suicides.
Invest Pairing: Your target is a pretty cool guy.
Notification: as you left to complete your night action, you ran into Matt. He invited you out for a beer and you couldn't refuse. Several beers later, you give him your number and tell him to call you if he ever needs something.

I think this role would really balance out the late game kill fests that pubs have become.

[Kefka]

The best thing that could possibly be done is making a stand-alone client. Town of Salem is okay but the style of the game is childish and retarded.

[Dr.Pr.Mr. Jr.]

EDIT: Just got another idea how to fix Marshall. After "-lynch" you may vote people as usual, but they don't get insta-lynched, just "selected". When day ends or all "selections" are finished, there goes extra phase of mass trials. First selected person gets trialed, then another one etc. Town may vote inno/guilty on every one of them. In the end all guilted people get lynched at the same time and their roles are revealed. This will help Marshall to be less about randoming and more about thinking.

I agree with this, I was an executioner one time and I claimed that someone was arson, the marshall revealed and my target was lynched, then an inexperienced mafia member voted me and of course, a noob town followed. Now since I already got my win I really didn't care but, what if I had really been sheriff and my claim was legitimate? I had no opportunity to defend myself. And they had no legitimate reason for lynching me.

[Tony]

What is your issue with the game? Your biggest issue? Post it here, and then post what you would ADD to allow it to be fixed/balanced/negated/whatever. For the most part things won't be removed, ever. So, what could we add that might fix things?
Kidnapper was added to nerf the heck out of Jailor.
Agent was added to nerf the heck out of Detective and Lookout.

What is your largest issue, and what would you add to fix it?

My issue with the game is the lack of ghosts. I would solve it by adding ghosts.