M-FM Fringe: Prime Universe

[M-FM Moogle]

Also Wildcard, if you hate meta arguments so much, why hide behind an anon acct? You should have no problem being meta'd then or using your main if you don't care about meta.

pedit: Unknown, I gave sino towncred for not backing down when you pressured him. Sino instead, doubled down on you.

In this case, Wildcard is acting opportunistic and is changing his play to fit his narrative. Not only that but as soon as he saw that he wasn't gonna get sino lynched, he decided to look for his next target. His arguments are word twisting, semantic arguments, and discussion of hypocrisy. This is just mudslinging where sino was actually refuting your points with arguments of his own.

pedit: I'm out and mobile and don't have time to respond to your points or tear apart posts right now.

I don't like your sudden turn on my when I was one of your strongest townreads with extremely weak and fabricated looking arguments.

Also, if I haven't addressed everything, give me a post number or quote it again because I feel like I've addressed it all.

pedit: Fine I did a anon so I could have fun with roleplay but it didn't really work out so I'll ask if I can replace under my main.

[M-FM Moogle]

You can also see his behavior also completely changed. He goes from "lala I love being playful" to "OMG 1V1 ME RIGHT NOW"

So what? I think you are scum trying to mislynch me so yeah, I'm gonna take that very seriously.

[M-FM Moogle]

Also Wildcard, are you still scumreading sino or is he a townread for you now?

[M-FM Wildcard]

One good point Wildcard has raised is : why are you using meta Moogle ? it doesn't make any sense for someone on an anon account to do it, you could tell us anything you want about you, we couldn't possibly know if it's true or not.

Wildcard, what do you think about me saying Unknown is twisting the truth ?

And Unknown, if you're going to tell me you pushed on Badass before the split, give me a post number.

To be honest, I am tending to agree with Unknowns arguments over yours. I also read it not that Unknown is twisting the truth, but more has a reluctance to go and confirm his points before posting them. Because there has been times where he has said something, and you can link prior posts that completely refute the point. While it definitely could be that Unknown is purposefully ignoring this to make you seem guilty, I don't think that he's posting with those intentions.

I think this way because in pre-game, he states that I was insulting him first. This definitely was not the case, as he started his interaction with me by calling me Oblivious. When I asked him to go back and quote the post where I insulted him first, he refused. Neither of us insulting each other, nor who did it first, was indicative of being scum; So, I believe that he just ends up posting a lot using his memory of what has been posted, but he is either remembering wrong or didn't read fully.

I can definitely see why you think he is twisting the truth, but I don't really believe that he is.

[M-FM Wildcard]

So what? I think you are scum trying to mislynch me so yeah, I'm gonna take that very seriously.

How am I trying to mislynch you? Have to seen one post where I said we should lynch you?
I think you're overreacting from the TINIEST bit of pressure, and it's reflecting extremely badly on you. You literally have 1 vote.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Also Wildcard, are you still scumreading sino or is he a townread for you now?

I have stated several times, even in a post that you responded to, that I do not have a town read on Sino.

[Unknown1234]

Moogle, where have you directly supported or agreed with Sino refuting my points? I have not seen a decent case on what I've said yet towards Sino.

Sino, I am not going to look through my posts for your sake, lol.

Moogle, if u say something inconsistent it's better to confess to it than caught in a shit full of lies. Im wrong a lot on stuff as Town and I always try to confess it sooner than later

[M-FM Wildcard]

Also Wildcard, if you hate meta arguments so much, why hide behind an anon acct? You should have no problem being meta'd then or using your main if you don't care about meta.

pedit: Unknown, I gave sino towncred for not backing down when you pressured him. Sino instead, doubled down on you.

In this case, Wildcard is acting opportunistic and is changing his play to fit his narrative. Not only that but as soon as he saw that he wasn't gonna get sino lynched, he decided to look for his next target. His arguments are word twisting, semantic arguments, and discussion of hypocrisy. This is just mudslinging where sino was actually refuting your points with arguments of his own.

pedit: I'm out and mobile and don't have time to respond to your points or tear apart posts right now.

I don't like your sudden turn on my when I was one of your strongest townreads with extremely weak and fabricated looking arguments.

Also, if I haven't addressed everything, give me a post number or quote it again because I feel like I've addressed it all.

pedit: Fine I did a anon so I could have fun with roleplay but it didn't really work out so I'll ask if I can replace under my main.

I'm behind anonymous accounts because I prefer anonymous games. Bias between friends/enemies in games can ruin the fun.
I also think using meta is pretty full on retarded. The only good way to use meta is to tell someone you're going to use meta, and see if they end up changing the way they behave.


I am not changing my play at all. This is literally how I've acted the entire game. When I am pressuring someone and they fight back, I have been shown to tighten my grip on them. Go back and read if you disagree, because you're trying to form a conclusion without the full picture. I never said I wasn't going to get Sino lynched, what are you talking about? I think Unknown, Town and Badass would all likely pile votes on Sino today if it called for it. I mean, you're the only person who has stated you have a Town read on him. I moved from Sino because you are scummy for several reasons I have stated in the last 4-5 hours alone.

Also, are you seriously saying I'M arguing semantics? That's you, bro. You understood what I meant, so I don't see why you attacked the words I chose to use instead of countering the argument. And discussion of hypocrisy is important. If you read back (even before I started pressuring you), you can see that I have stated that looking for hypocrisy is the best thing to do in Mafia as scum often are hypocrites. This is because their arguments aren't actually a true argument for them, so their mind can easily change.


Yes, you were one of my strongest town reads. Then you changed. So, I looked into your post history and saw that you are actually a very fake and scummy person. I would like you to explain which arguments are "fabricated". You can't just make statements like that without evidence. If you would post something I said that is completely fabricated, I would love to explain to you how it's not fabricated.



I'll find some posts I want you to respond to.

[Sino]

Sino, I am not going to look through my posts for your sake, lol.

Well i did, the closest you've come to pressuring Badass was telling him you're more badass than him.

And that's why i still think Unknown should be lynched, what kind of townie doesn't go back to check, just to be sure of what happened ?

Not only does he lie about what happened in the past, but he also refuses to admit he's wrong.

-vote Unknown1234

[M-FM Wildcard]

@M-FM Moogle

This post:https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post646023


And you can exclude this part, because we have already chalked that up to miscommunication.
"Not only does this post reek of insincerity to me, he once again reiterates how he would act "if we were scum". Essentially using his meta once again to prove that he is Town. "


I would like to you respond to entirety of that post. Really break it down for me. And I would prefer to see you actually refuting the point, and not just attacking what I'm saying.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Also, now that I have outted myself as a Town Power Role, I would really appreciate it if a Doctor was definitely on me tonight.

[Unknown1234]

I'll have to read the conversation between You both to see if I'd vote Moogle or not, but frankly I think that On time is staying completely below the radar, and I'll check his posts after to confirm my case.

[Unknown1234]

Also, now that I have outted myself as a Town Power Role, I would really appreciate it if a Doctor was definitely on me tonight.

When and why did this happen?

[Sino]

@M-FM Moogle

This post:https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post646023


And you can exclude this part, because we have already chalked that up to miscommunication.
"Not only does this post reek of insincerity to me, he once again reiterates how he would act "if we were scum". Essentially using his meta once again to prove that he is Town. "


I would like to you respond to entirety of that post. Really break it down for me. And I would prefer to see you actually refuting the point, and not just attacking what I'm saying.

Thanks for the link, because the post right above yours :

I was skeptical of Badass way before the split. Fact check before you falsely call me a liar.

is exactly why we should lynch Unknown, he's asking me to fact check (which i did), but he's refusing to do it.

[M-FM Wildcard]

When and why did this happen?

Moogle accused me of proving myself as scum. I informed him that I can't prove myself as scum, as I am a Town Power Role. Back a page or so.

I would also like to add that as my Power Role, I am not including Enhanced Citizen as a TPR.

[Unknown1234]

Why must I check to find my own posts for you?

I don't like dealing with you because your arguments have been incredibly annoying and weak all game. I don't even think you are scum anymore, which is why I would rather ignore you because you aren't helping.

[M-FM Wildcard]

I'll have to read the conversation between You both to see if I'd vote Moogle or not, but frankly I think that On time is staying completely below the radar, and I'll check his posts after to confirm my case.

Um, I don't believe he has made a single post. I mean, he hasn't logged in since Oct 31, so it's not like he's trying to fly under the radar, nor lurking. He is legitimately inactive.

[Unknown1234]

At the worst, all your argument about me shows is that either I'm right, or I'm wrong and I can't remember things correctly. I'm not even surprised if I'm wrong, and I've stated before that I make false mistakes because I'm too lazy to do so (in this case, I'm at school) so how does this make me scum, Sino?

[M-FM Wildcard]

Thanks for the link, because the post right above yours :

is exactly why we should lynch Unknown, he's asking me to fact check (which i did), but he's refusing to do it.

I'm sorry, I don't think I can force myself to vote Unknown today. Unless something really crazy happens. He's my strongest Town read.

[Sino]

Why must I check to find my own posts for you?

I don't like dealing with you because your arguments have been incredibly annoying and weak all game. I don't even think you are scum anymore, which is why I would rather ignore you because you aren't helping.

Ignoring players, what a townie behavior

Why do you have to check ? Because you'd actually be refuting my point instead of just ignoring it.

And why am i not scum anymore ?

[Sino]

At the worst, all your argument about me shows is that either I'm right, or I'm wrong and I can't remember things correctly. I'm not even surprised if I'm wrong, and I've stated before that I make false mistakes because I'm too lazy to do so (in this case, I'm at school) so how does this make me scum, Sino?

Because that's what you're using to either scumread me or look town.

[Sino]

I'm sorry, I don't think I can force myself to vote Unknown today. Unless something really crazy happens. He's my strongest Town read.

I don't see how it's fine to "forget things", i could also "forget" i stated i was willing to lynch Town, way earlier.

By "forgetting" things, you end up basing all of your arguments on lies, how is that not suspicious ?

[M-FM Wildcard]

I don't see how it's fine to "forget things", i could also "forget" i stated i was willing to lynch Town, way earlier.

By "forgetting" things, you end up basing all of your arguments on lies, how is that not suspicious ?

I don't think it's fine to do that. And I definitely think that it could be held as suspicious. But, as long as you're able to defend yourself against his accusations by posting prior quotes proving your point... then it only hurts him and helps you. If he wants to keep doing that, then it will definitely become a problem for him late game.

[Unknown1234]

Sino, you expect people to be perfect. I'm in school, I don't have time to make sure what I say is accurate, all I know is that mistakes happen, and the fact that I've done this before and so I don't really care if that's how you base your argument on me about. The fact is, me forgetting stuff is the only thing you have against me. Wouldn't Scum be more careful about what they say, though?

I do this all the time as Town BTW.

[Sino]

I don't think it's fine to do that. And I definitely think that it could be held as suspicious. But, as long as you're able to defend yourself against his accusations by posting prior quotes proving your point... then it only hurts him and helps you. If he wants to keep doing that, then it will definitely become a problem for him late game.

So why does he get a free pass for this right now ? Aren't you doubting your town read on him the slightest for that ?

I get that you don't have a lot of town reads for now, seeing as he's the only active poster you currently don't scumread, but such a behavior should get you to question that.

[Unknown1234]

Ignoring players, what a townie behavior

Why do you have to check ? Because you'd actually be refuting my point instead of just ignoring it.

And why am i not scum anymore ?

Don't see how I've ever ignored your posts.

You are incredibly annoying because your push on me is ridiculous and makes no sense.

Why do I think you're Town? Because your defensiveness seems more like what Town Sino would do when I think about it more. I also think that the fact you honestly think you could lynch me with your case actually shows as town. You haven't even bothered to refute my counter points on your points.

[Sino]

Don't see how I've ever ignored your posts.

You are incredibly annoying because your push on me is ridiculous and makes no sense.

Why do I think you're Town? Because your defensiveness seems more like what Town Sino would do when I think about it more. I also think that the fact you honestly think you could lynch me with your case actually shows as town. You haven't even bothered to refute my counter points on your points.

Can you link me those points i didn't counter please ?

[M-FM Moogle]

Wildcard, I can't rip your post apart right now because I don't have all day to argue with you. I am having surgery tomorrow and am dealing with that as well as this game.

I use examples of what I've seen and experienced in games all the time because that's the best way I have of using evidence to prove my point. If I've seen scum or town do something enough times I'm gonna use it as my reasoning for thinking something is scum or town. I'll even use myself as an example. I believe that whole post is you taking quotes of mine out of context and twisting them to fit a scumread.

Hypocrisy is not a scumtell and never has been.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Wouldn't Scum be more careful about what they say, though?

I do this all the time as Town BTW.

srsly?

[Sino]

srsly?

Lol, something crazy like this ?

[M-FM Wildcard]

Wildcard, I can't rip your post apart right now because I don't have all day to argue with you. I am having surgery tomorrow and am dealing with that as well as this game.

I use examples of what I've seen and experienced in games all the time because that's the best way I have of using evidence to prove my point. If I've seen scum or town do something enough times I'm gonna use it as my reasoning for thinking something is scum or town. I'll even use myself as an example. I believe that whole post is you taking quotes of mine out of context and twisting them to fit a scumread.

Hypocrisy is not a scumtell and never has been.

Well then my vote stays on you. I am not going to change my mind if you can't put in the time to convince me to change it.

You say it's taking things out of context, I say it's something scum would say due to the hidden meaning. You can say all you want that I'm wrong, but if you're not going to prove you've done otherwise, then I can't unvote you unless someone does something drastic.

And yes, hypocrisy has always been a scum tell...

Maybe if you're going to AFK due to surgery, you should just claim your role now so you don't tie up discussion and night actions.

[M-FM Wildcard]

Lol, something crazy like this ?

I'm just shocked because I'm extremely vocal about those types of statements are part of the reason I'm pushing Moogle, then he straight up says one.

[Sino]

@M-FM Moogle What do you think about my accusation towards Unknown ?

Do people legit forget or is he really trying to use lies to pass a point ?

[Unknown1234]

You never answered me when I asked why you became so defensive when I questioned one thing, and why you only started pointing out why i was scummy when I had started accusing you.

[Unknown1234]

srsly?

I'll refer you to Never Unlucky after this game.

[M-FM Moogle]

Unknown-You say On Time is flying under the radar but they haven't made a single post. Are you sure you aren't confusing them with Town again? Otherwise, I don't understand your vote or reasoning?

[M-FM Wildcard]

Hmm I just thought of something, and don't see it clarified in setup.

@OrpZed Does Mafia have 1 kill per night, or 2 (1 per Universe)?


If it is 1 over both Universes, even that can give us extra reads or an insight into the other Universe.

[Unknown1234]

I'll answer that question when I check pre day 1.

[M-FM Wildcard]

@M-FM Moogle What do you think about my accusation towards Unknown ?

Do people legit forget or is he really trying to use lies to pass a point ?

I would agree with you if he didn't do the same thing to me in a non-game related incident.
As he is my strongest town read otherwise, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt in this situation.

[Sino]

I'm just shocked because I'm extremely vocal about those types of statements are part of the reason I'm pushing Moogle, then he straight up says one.

So allow me to ask again : doesn't that, even in the slightest, make you doubt your town read on Unknown ?

Also, i'm afraid we'll have trouble lynching anyone : we are currently 4 active players, 2 of the players here still didn't show up and still weren't replaced, and we don't agree on who to vote.

I will be able to stay online for about 4 or 5 hours, i'll try to do my best, but i surely will log off before the day ends.

[Unknown1234]

On-Time hasn't even posted. I really need to re-read.

[Unknown1234]

-unvote

[M-FM Moogle]

@M-FM Moogle What do you think about my accusation towards Unknown ?

Do people legit forget or is he really trying to use lies to pass a point ?

I think Town can easily not pay attention in a game and be inconsistent. Scum always are more concerned about how they look. I do think it's odd that he is using this as a defense and even using the argument that it's his Town game. I also find it odd that Wildcard is pushing me for supposed hypocrisy and trying to look Town but has Unknown as his strongest townread who is doing the same thing. Isn't that the exact hypocrisy he says is a scumtell?

[Sino]

You never answered me when I asked why you became so defensive when I questioned one thing, and why you only started pointing out why i was scummy when I had started accusing you.

The main thing that stroke me was how you were saying i was agreeing a lot, while in fact, the main thing i was agreeing with was the lynch on the afk players, i did disagree with how people see a hard claim though.

Now, if you could quote or give me the post's number, it would help me to get into more details.

[M-FM Wildcard]

So allow me to ask again : doesn't that, even in the slightest, make you doubt your town read on Unknown ?

Also, i'm afraid we'll have trouble lynching anyone : we are currently 4 active players, 2 of the players here still didn't show up and still weren't replaced, and we don't agree on who to vote.

I will be able to stay online for about 4 or 5 hours, i'll try to do my best, but i surely will log off before the day ends.

Lol yes of course it does. But it also doesn't change the fact that he is still my strongest Town read. Don't get me wrong, this morning you have definitely moved up the list with your towniness.



We'll only get lunch with the lynch if the other Universe is struggling more than us to get enough votes on a single player.

[Sino]

I think Town can easily not pay attention in a game and be inconsistent. Scum always are more concerned about how they look. I do think it's odd that he is using this as a defense and even using the argument that it's his Town game. I also find it odd that Wildcard is pushing me for supposed hypocrisy and trying to look Town but has Unknown as his strongest townread who is doing the same thing. Isn't that the exact hypocrisy he says is a scumtell?

How exactly is Unknown trying to look town to you ?

[M-FM Wildcard]

I think Town can easily not pay attention in a game and be inconsistent. Scum always are more concerned about how they look. I do think it's odd that he is using this as a defense and even using the argument that it's his Town game. I also find it odd that Wildcard is pushing me for supposed hypocrisy and trying to look Town but has Unknown as his strongest townread who is doing the same thing. Isn't that the exact hypocrisy he says is a scumtell?

I don't think you understand what I'm calling you a hypocrite for. I'm not saying it because you try to make yourself look Town by using meta.
Unknown has also acted in a way prior to these events that no sane scum would act, in my eyes. Therefore, it's easy to believe him that he is just not reading fully vs bald face lying about posts. I mean, even if he was scum, why would he lie like that on Day 1? It would only come back to bite him in the ass. IDK If I can believe that a scum would draw attention to himself is such a tragic way on Day 1.

[M-FM Wildcard]

I'm not sure what time day started, and the timer doesn't work on my work comp. How many hours do we have left?

[Sino]

I'm not sure what time day started, and the timer doesn't work on my work comp. How many hours do we have left?

around 9

[Sino]

Lol yes of course it does. But it also doesn't change the fact that he is still my strongest Town read. Don't get me wrong, this morning you have definitely moved up the list with your towniness.



We'll only get lunch with the lynch if the other Universe is struggling more than us to get enough votes on a single player.

What would your list look like right now ?

Also one of our main problems is the high quantity of less active people, it's also possible all the scum is among them.