S-FM 131: Reversed Mafia

[powerofdeath]

It been decades since the great legendary Godfather took over this peaceful town. Well, it isn't peaceful anymore is it? He started out small and worked up through the ranks. He took over the corrupted City government. He was a great man. The City was actually happier with him in charge instead of the old government so they let him alone. I missed him, I truly do. Last Friday, he was eating at his favorite restaurant: Ruby Tuesday. Ironic, isn't it? Anyway, he had a heart attack. We tried saving him, but it was too late. My brother took it hard. It affected him you know? He was like a father to him. In his will, he left the charge to my brother. He became a tyrant. After a failed attempt of assassination of me, I fled the city. I am now looking to form a small group to stop this madman!

Player List:
1. Tonex
2. Louiswill
3. ThinkLiveLife
4. Potledom
5. Apache
6. Bahkieh
7. Frog
8. Vantas
9. Brendan
10. Citrus

Set Up is located here

Night 1 has begun! You must submit a night action or you will turn into a vegetable!

Night end in 24 hours.

[powerofdeath]

Tonex was found dead last night. His role was fool.

Player List:
2. Louiswill
3. ThinkLiveLife
4. Potledom
5. Apache
6. Bahkieh
7. Frog
8. Vantas
9. Brendan
10. Citrus

Day end when everyone vote. You may vote for No lynch. If you do not vote by 24 hours, you will suicide.
Night end when EVERYONE submit a Night action. You may visit no one. If you do not submit a Night Action by 24 hours, you will suicide.
I will send a reminder to everyone to submit a Night Action beginning of the Night.

9 votes to hammer.

[Citrus]

Is this open/when does day end?

[powerofdeath]

Day end in 24 hours

[Citrus]

1) Tracker out if your target visited two people (discovered Stalker, easy win)
2) Masons mason every night, when you have 3+ just send enough for a majority
3) Fool is dead so we lynch any cc (ex: 2 vig claims), without a solid lead it's better to no lynch to give masons more space to reach 3+

-vote Skip

[Apache]

1) Tracker out if your target visited two people (discovered Stalker, easy win)
2) Masons mason every night, when you have 3+ just send enough for a majority
3) Fool is dead so we lynch any cc (ex: 2 vig claims), without a solid lead it's better to no lynch to give masons more space to reach 3+

-vote Skip

are you town? stalker is our ally, not our enemy

[Citrus]

are you town? stalker is our ally, not our enemy

Have you played this on epicmafia before? Most players outside stalker get mason'ed, unless masons mis-mason.

Once the stalker is discovered masons can just mason everyone other than the stalker, then lynch (autowin for everyone but stalker)

[Brendan]

setup links to signup not the setup

[Apache]

Have you played this on epicmafia before? Most players outside stalker get mason'ed, unless masons mis-mason.

Once the stalker is discovered masons can just mason everyone other than the stalker, then lynch (autowin for everyone but stalker)

no haven't played this yet

[powerofdeath]

setup links to signup not the setup

It's a link to the link.

[Helz]

This is the worst conversation I have ever read.

[Brendan]

It's a link to the link.

y.

[Vantas]

Wow day has been completely unproductive so far.

Anyway, there really isn't much to go off of, so we have two options. We can try to lynch someone blindly or skip and see how that goes. With fool dead, that means the game won't end unexpectedly after a lynch, so there's that.
@Apache Same boat here I'm not sure if the typical crowd's supposed to play in the interest of town or mafia... :v

[Frog]

Ok fool is out. I am traitor. The way I see it, we need to lynch everyday to kill a town important role, if we lose a citizen, its not a huge deal. We need to find the vigilante and/or Mason and lynch. A day lynch would be best. The odds are in favor of random lynching important town vs. random lynch important mafia. Let's random lynch. If you are mafia, please follow my train of thought or expand on it. I am drunk and happy. I love Ferrari models.

I'll gladly follow any random lynch. I may not be awake in the morning so I'll lead one in 10 minutes.

[Frog]

Yeah, anyone voting to skip is town in my books.

-vote Citrus

Worse case scenario of random lynch is most likely just losing a traitor. Best case scenario is getting rid of town important scum. Let's do this. CHOO CHOO mother flippers.

[Vantas]

Tonex was found dead last night. His role was fool.

Player List:
2. Louiswill
3. ThinkLiveLife
4. Potledom
5. Apache
6. Bahkieh
7. Frog
8. Vantas
9. Brendan
10. Citrus

Day end when everyone vote. You may vote for No lynch. If you do not vote by 24 hours, you will suicide.
Night end when EVERYONE submit a Night action. You may visit no one. If you do not submit a Night Action by 24 hours, you will suicide.
I will send a reminder to everyone to submit a Night Action beginning of the Night.

9 votes to hammer.

We need 9 votes to lynch. AKA, everyone to vote lynch INCLUDING the person getting lynched. That's not going to happen. No one's going to want out of the game unless they're the fool, which that role is already dead.

[louiswill]

We need 9 votes to lynch. AKA, everyone to vote lynch INCLUDING the person getting lynched. That's not going to happen. No one's going to want out of the game unless they're the fool, which that role is already dead.

No. Pod will calculate the vote at the end of day to lynch. 9 votes to lynch is to prevent day auto end.

How many people can a mason convert?

Someone didn't answer my question.

[louiswill]

I will give out my suggestion of lynch after Pod answers my question.

[Citrus]

Yeah, anyone voting to skip is town in my books.

-vote Citrus

Worse case scenario of random lynch is most likely just losing a traitor. Best case scenario is getting rid of town important scum. Let's do this. CHOO CHOO mother flippers.

Wrong.

Worst case is Stalker is lynched -> Game ends instantly, town wins, un-masoned traitors lose

[Citrus]

Addendum: Unless, of course, you're town Frog. Because then it's almost always preferable for you to random lynch...

[Citrus]

No. Pod will calculate the vote at the end of day to lynch. 9 votes to lynch is to prevent day auto end.

How many people can a mason convert?

Someone didn't answer my question.

Assuming it's epicmafia rules:

Majority to lynch but everyone has to vote or be modkilled.
No limit to number of players masons can mason

But probably best to wait for PoD's response anyways

[louiswill]

Assuming it's epicmafia rules:

Majority to lynch but everyone has to vote or be modkilled.
No limit to number of players masons can mason

But probably best to wait for PoD's response anyways

If so then there will be a mod nuclear, guaranteed.

[Helz]

If so then there will be a mod nuclear, guaranteed.

I agree.

Obvious observations:
Tracker can identify exact roles (With the exception of Fool)
Mason can re-align the town if kept alive

There are a few ways we could play this but I want to see the N2 kills before making a play. Honestly there is not much conversation but there is also not much to be said. The game is kind of straight forward and its a hard life for a Traitor.

With that said how is everyone doing today? There is a lot of good people in this game. It will be a pleasure to play with you guys.

[louiswill]

Yep. This is as much as my previous SFM.

Except this time, I'm the player.
I won't let the game die, unless everyone choose to get rid of me first.

[Apache]

well i also don't really want to risk lynching the stalker
we should just wait so the stalker can kill some townies

-vote skip

[Vantas]

If so then there will be a mod nuclear, guaranteed.

Could you explain what a mod nuclear is? Sorry, I've never played with those before.

@ reply to 9 lynch votes We have the role list, completely confirmed. There is no roles that could multiply votes, like a Mayor. So in theory, yes, but it'd have to be this "mod nuclear" thing, whatever that is.

[Vantas]

Ok, I thought my post on page 1 was the last one and I was wrong about that, so you guys are saying there must only be a majority to lynch, yes? If so, why wouldn't he just say "5 to lynch" and then let day keep doing after a lynch has been locked in for other people to get their votes in? That seems BS if you ask me for him to not give an accurate number on who needs to be lynched but hey what do I know.

For a lynch to occur, will we need what was stated at the beginning of day or just a majority?

[Citrus]

Ok, I thought my post on page 1 was the last one and I was wrong about that, so you guys are saying there must only be a majority to lynch, yes? If so, why wouldn't he just say "5 to lynch" and then let day keep doing after a lynch has been locked in for other people to get their votes in? That seems BS if you ask me for him to not give an accurate number on who needs to be lynched but hey what do I know.

For a lynch to occur, will we need what was stated at the beginning of day or just a majority?

He's making it mirror epicmafia. Majority to lynch but no hammer unless everyone votes prior to day end

[powerofdeath]

Ok, I thought my post on page 1 was the last one and I was wrong about that, so you guys are saying there must only be a majority to lynch, yes? If so, why wouldn't he just say "5 to lynch" and then let day keep doing after a lynch has been locked in for other people to get their votes in? That seems BS if you ask me for him to not give an accurate number on who needs to be lynched but hey what do I know.

For a lynch to occur, will we need what was stated at the beginning of day or just a majority?

Majority

[powerofdeath]

No. Pod will calculate the vote at the end of day to lynch. 9 votes to lynch is to prevent day auto end.

How many people can a mason convert?

Someone didn't answer my question.

Yes.
Masons can convert infinity.

[powerofdeath]

If you do not vote by the end of the day, you will be modkilled. If you do not post or vote, I will just replace you instead of modkilling.

[Frog]

Ok, let me put it to you this way.

Stalker
Traitor
Traitor
Traitor
Traitor

Traitor (converted to mason)
Mason
Vigilante
Tracker

^This is what our town looks like as of today. A random lynch while Mafia has majority. Understand ALL MAFIA players, we desperately NEED to lynch a townie today. Chances are it will be an IMPORTANT or CRITICAL townie. If we lynch one of OUR OWN by accident, it will most likely just be a TRAITOR, no big deal. The point is, the risk of getting our own STALKER is lower than getting a CRITICAL TOWNIE. Also, this just in, if we don't LYNCH A TOWN RIGHT NOW, MAFIA WILL LOSE. I don't know how else to put it. As long as you are still traitor, your goal is still to win with Mafia. Don't play stupid and wait out the clock, let's DO THIS NOW.

Imagine Town KPN at 2: Vigilante will shoot at random, Mason will convert
Imagine Mafia KPN at -1 (at best)

^This is the best case rate of flow. By tomorrow we will most likely have 4 townies vs. 3 Mafia.

Understand traitors, you are still members of mafia, if you have ANY SHOT OF WINNING AS TRAITOR, which would be awesome, you NEED TO LYNCH NOW. Apache and Citrus are most definitely town for skipping. Stalker, these are the people you should be killing. Traitors, these are the people we should be voting for. It's just that simple.

I don't know how much more I have to make this plea, but Today, DAY 2, is our last chance at GLORY for a MAFIA VICTORY.

[Vantas]

Chances are it will be an IMPORTANT or CRITICAL townie. If we lynch one of OUR OWN by accident, it will most likely just be a TRAITOR, no big deal.

Ok, I need to refute these two, EXTREMELY flawed points you have up. First off, the chance of hitting a HT are 3/9, or 1/3. The chance of hitting a traitor is 4/9. The chance of hitting a traitor is more than hitting HT, why you say chances are, I'm not sure, but it's not true.

Second point, hitting a traitor is a BIIIG deal. If we hit a traitor, it's

Stalker
Traitor
Traitor
Traitor

Traitor (mason converted)
Mason
Vigil
Tracker

Tracker track - 1/7-1/6th chance of finding Stalker
Stalker stalk - 3/7th chance of finding HT
Mason recruit - 5/7th chance of recruiting
Stalker kill - 4/7-5/7th chance of Town kill
Vig kill - 3/7-5/7th chance of Town kill

That being said, Vigil probably won't kill. And also that being said, it'll most likely be 4-3 if Stalker kills town or 5-2 if Stalker kills mafia. Also, Mason takes one away from Mafia and adds it to town. The fact that you breezed over those is honestly concerning. Otherwise, without a lynch today, it could be 4-4 town kill or 5-3 mafian kill, which looks a LOT less bleak of you ask me.

While I'm not against lynching today, I thought it'd be only fair to point out the inconsistencies here. A no lynch would lead to a chance for Mafian win, and not be so clear cut decisive , as they have the power to be able to check. Wanting that lynch is going to lock in either a certain Mafian loss or still unclear due to the Mason's recruiting power. I'd rather let Stalker use another night to look at the options clearly and hopefully get in a TPR kill before recklessly running in and confirming a Mafian loss.

-vote skip

[Helz]

I disagree. The way this game is setup the mafia is pretty screwed. Every day the mafia has a -2kpn and the lean on a lynch is against the mafia early on. After tomorrow it will probably be advantageous to lynch though.

And I have to vote. so...

-vote Skip

[Vantas]

-vote Skip

I just bolded+made it red last time. So this counts for real I guess XD

[Helz]

-vote Skip

I just bolded+made it red last time. So this counts for real I guess XD

Lol. You sneaky devil!

[Vantas]

Lol. You sneaky devil!

Well "Skip" was lowercase so at least there was a hint I didn't do it correctly XD

Ah well at least it's right now. At least this isn't Main mafia that I'm screwing up on XD

[Helz]

Just to throw it out there I bet the Vigi will kill. In his mind all he has to do is hit 1 target to win the game so he probably sees himself as the most valuable asset to the game and everyone else as expendable.

[potledom]

Hey guys, just posting in this before I forget to (have a busy day.) I have played this game on epic mafia all the time. I can help explain the mechanics of how this game normally ends up being when I get home... but basically masons want to mason the fuck out of the traitors to get a town majority and when they do they need to stop masoning because they dont want to hit the stalker. Stalker will want to seem as townie as possible in order to get masoned (almost only way they will win.) There's no point in trying to win as a traitor/mafia team right now because it is very unlikely to happen, everyone will claim traitor and then you most likely will lynch one of your own. Then, masons and town will have a majority and you will have to hope and pray you get masoned... Hope this makes sense. I pretty much explained everything

-vote Skip

[Vantas]

Hey Pot if you didn't capitalize the "skip" you might want to XD I was looking at the vote count and you're in a different category than the rest of us who skipped for some reason.

[Helz]

I did not even consider if the Stalker gets masoned..

Do win conditions change upon conversion or do they stay the same?

[louiswill]

Alright, it is time for me shoot my victory.

It is a much similar situation to my previous SFM.
So First social problem here is to choose side.
Of course, Traitors is majority here, but no one is bond by their condition toward the end of game.

The setup is balanced, not obviously but it is. Feel free to argue with me if you hold contrary opinion.

Based on that and my own experience of this kind of setup,

My plan is this:
I'm going to reveal. I'm vigilante.
(similar as the monopoly revealed in my SFM, lol.)

And:
We lynch every day a traitor claimer (lol because simply everyone will claim traitor but me).
And I choose to shoot the most suspicious person to me (Most likely the 2nd most voted person)

As soon as we kill the Stalker, I will start to shoot masons.
And all rest of you need to do is to wait to be converted and make sure there will be no lynch by voting a non-majority tie.
If masons want to be full retarded ad convert no one, lynch me and the game ends nobody win. Fair enough.

If I failed to kill stalker, then you guys shall lynch me AFTER you lynched Tracker
.



Most of you after read this post
will very likely ask why would I reveal? What is my intention and such and such. I will stuff your mouth before you insult my intelligence.

Reasons:
There are going to be a massive emerging town masons.
The masons will only decline when they choose stalkers.
Then the people they can convert will be narrowed, eventually they will majority agree to convert stalker and half mason will die.
This cycle will continue, until stalker is dead.
For this cycle to begin with, mason needs 3 members.
Once mason reaches 2n+1, n>=1 members, there is no controllable way to stop them.
So face it, most of you WILL become town.

So,
If I shoot masons too early, I will hand victory to stalker,
If mason convert me, around 80% people will lose the game because mason wasted a night to convert me, delayed to process to lynch stalker early and shoot for the victory.
If I shoot stalker, then we can all sit and wait for victory.
If stalker kill me, then simply make Tracker have a huge advantage on counter claiming Stalker because stalker miss the lead from night of killing action. You guys again can confirm a stalker and lynch him easily. Side with masons in that case.

I do not need to survive, and my victory fit the most scenarios except if retard masons come to convert me.


Conclusion:

I want more KPD/N, so no lynch is bad for me. You are dead Pot.

-vote Potledom

If you survive the lynch at day, I will see you at night.

[louiswill]

I did not even consider if the Stalker gets masoned..

Do win conditions change upon conversion or do they stay the same?

If the win condition doesn't change upon conversion, you will get a bunch of gamethrowing mason members who lynch their own members.

Masons(previous traitor) only win if stalker wins. -- That is what I call Muffinmen.

[louiswill]

Tbh, most original roles do not need to survive is really making the game easy to solve.

[louiswill]

Skip Day (4 [L-5]):
Citrus, Apache, ThinkLiveLife, Vantas

Oh wait, these people should die first, Pot didn't vote.

So Apache.

-vote Apache

[Helz]

I am a traitor. Your plan would have made a ton of sense without the reveal. Because you revealed traitors are in a much better position for a mafia win. I think the game was balanced but if this reveal is not a gambit I am reconsidering my original line of thought..

[Helz]

Yeah. I gave this some thought

-unvote

[Helz]

So I was planning on going with the mason push. It just made sense with 1 conversion and 1 kill per night with an added miss lynch of traitors. But given Louis's reveal it is now cut down to 1 converson per night (Assuming the rest of the traitors support this logic and jump on board with this)

The traitors are the town. The masons are the cult. And louswill is the scum KPN in my mind.

-vote louiswill

Now there is a few ways this can go.

1. Louiswill could be pulling a gambit. The lynch is bad and traitors have that much more reason to get on board with the mason plan
2. Louiswill is not lying. He is the Vig and we lynch him. The traitors now have an excellent chance.
3. Louiswill is not lying. We fail to gain a majority vote and he shoots me tonight for being the most confirmed traitor. (This is probably the worst case scenario because the stalker will no doubt kill louis tonight and the swing in the game will be as strong tomorrow as it is today.)

This just makes sense to me. I hope others agree and are not shy given that traitors hold a very significant majority.

[potledom]

As soon as we kill the Stalker, I will start to shoot masons.
And all rest of you need to do is to wait to be converted and make sure there will be no lynch by voting a non-majority tie.
If masons want to be full retarded ad convert no one, lynch me and the game ends nobody win. Fair enough.

If I failed to kill stalker, then you guys shall lynch me AFTER you lynched Tracker
.

I dont think you understand the mechanics of the game. As soon as the stalker is dead the game is over. The traitors only win if the stalker wins. How I always see it is that traitors are more of a third-party, not aligned with town or mafia, they can convert either way. The traitors are valuable to each side because of numbers. But ya you can't shoot masons when the stalker is dead because the game will be over.

[Helz]

Eyyyyhhhh Kat. I couldn't help but notice there is something wrong with your vote. Check the vote count and you will see what I mean.