S-FM 179: Cop Out

[Firebringer]

The delusion continues, just like how you somehow think you're town when you're a neutral that can win with town. God you are terrible no wonder you didn't want to reveal your wild assumptions
My feelings are hurt ;(

[Toadette]

My feelings are hurt ;(

Every time I think you can't get derpier, you prove me wrong

You have been very anti town today

[Firebringer]

Every time I think you can't get derpier, you prove me wrong

You have been very anti town today

Why you gotta be all tsundere on me?

[Titus]

Toadette, pardon me but what happened? Did you break into my liquor cabinet I hid on the moon?

Noctiz will flip at the end of the day. Voting him is voting for no lynch.

SuperJack is claimed not town.

[Toadette]

You weren't voting him, and I also have a guilty result from feedback last night on you.


You lynch me tomorrow if I am lying. Simple as that.

What you got is NOT a guilty yet you led everyone on like it was something set in stone. Garbage play.

[Toadette]

Toadette, pardon me but what happened? Did you break into my liquor cabinet I hid on the moon?

Noctiz will flip at the end of the day. Voting him is voting for no lynch.

SuperJack is claimed not town.

Fire didn't have a guilty on Noc

I was acting under the assumption that Noc was "most likely" guilty. My vote is parked while I think over who is scum, cause we'd be lucky if Noc was scum

[Titus]

Fire didn't have a guilty on Noc

I was acting under the assumption that Noc was "most likely" guilty. My vote is parked while I think over who is scum, cause we'd be lucky if Noc was scum

That's irrelevant.

Regardless of the result being accurate or inaccurate, SJ and Fire are claimed not town.

[Titus]

My feelings are hurt ;(

I'm sorry but saying your play sucks this game is ok.

Calling you an idiot isn't.

You have to be told how bad your play is if you're trying to win with town. I don't think you are. In Warcraft, you cut the bullshit out.

[Toadette]

That's irrelevant.

Regardless of the result being accurate or inaccurate, SJ and Fire are claimed not town.

If Noc flips town, we're down to 4 members and that seems more likely than before given fires reveal

[Toadette]

Meaning 4v2 we may as well hold onto the corrupt cops as terrible as they have been playing

[Titus]

Meaning 4v2 we may as well hold onto the corrupt cops as terrible as they have been playing

Take a step back for a second.

If they're telling the truth, we should lynch them.
If they're lying we shouldn't lynch them although this makes them more likely to be scum.

Like what the fuck?

[RLVG]

What the fuck.

So SuperJack and FireBringer are Corrupt Cops together and Firebringer is more or less the Lookout of this game, who saw that Damus and Toadette visited NoctiZ and based on that NoctiZ were scum.
Damus denies visiting anyone.

This is a big contradiction and logical fallacy triangle right here lol.

[RLVG]

Target two players at night. If nobody is selected, the targets are randomised. You repel both players to the same target (uninformed). You choose the target that they both visit.

Nevermind, that's different than Lookout.
Hmm.

[Toadette]

What the fuck.

So SuperJack and FireBringer are Corrupt Cops together and Firebringer is more or less the Lookout of this game, who saw that Damus and Toadette visited NoctiZ and based on that NoctiZ were scum.
Damus denies visiting anyone.

This is a big contradiction and logical fallacy triangle right here lol.

NO he MADE us visit Noc without our knowledge. Not a lookout

[RLVG]

Well, they're Uninformed so Damus doing No Action would be completely unaware of it unless he was a TPR and would receive appropriate feedback.
I'm not sure about Toadette.

Firebringer, share some of that moon logic of yours that NoctiZ is scum based on being a double witch.

[RLVG]

Hmm.

If someone is healed, does it heal for all the attacks or just a single attack?
What is Detained / Interrogation exactly?
What happens if a Bailiff repossesses the coins of a Banker?

[Sen]

When you return sen I have a question.
Are you the banker?
Nah. Fuck banks.

[Calix]

Can we lynch NoctiZ?

No. All votes on him will be regarded as non-votes.


Hmm.

If someone is healed, does it heal for all the attacks or just a single attack?
What is Detained / Interrogation exactly?
What happens if a Bailiff repossesses the coins of a Banker?

Heals protect from all attacks.

Bailiff is a Jailor/ Commuter variant. Detainer is a Jailkeeper.

To prevent game-breaking, Bailiff/ Detainer takes two coins from a jailed Banker. The concept of 'infinite coins' applies to Bankers having their coins stolen.

[Sen]

And like I assumed, Firebringer was not an investigative role. Go figure.

At what point during the OoO does the scum's factional kill take place if not conducted by a Sociopath?

[Frog]

Afternoon all. I'll start D2 now.

[Frog]

1) No feedback
2) RLVG can be the spokesperson for reporter chat - I'm obviously reporter b/c I know this
3) We're on a full spread again. Why?

[SuperJack]

No comments on the post I made about darknessb?

[Frog]

No comments on the post I made about darknessb?

19 pages to read.

Curious to see if Sen pressures multiple people or has repeat tunnelvision.
Curious to see if TDL reveals his reads.
Curious to see if you (SJ), Darkness, and Gamefreak are active and claim Town.

[Frog]

Final Vote Count: Day 1

ThePaladin (8):
Sen, NoctiZ, SuperJack, Titus, Frog, Toadette, Damus_Graves, Firebringer
Damus_Graves (2):
RLVG, GameFreak
SuperJack (1):
ThePaladin
Firebringer (1):
TheDarkestLight

DarknessB

Obvious starting point after Paladin's jester/lawyer play:
DarknessB
TheDarkestLight
RLVG
GameFreak

^This pool fears the jester, were all present EOD 1.

IMO :
DarknessB
GameFreak

followed by:
TheDarkestLight

finally:
RLVG

But first:
Let's see who pressured/defended SJ :-D

[Frog]

We going to victim blame the person who got lynched?
We all got caught up in bandwagon and confirmation bias, including myself to large degree.

Should have known when he claimed Citizen he was likely actually Citizen.

You're missing the point. He was playing bad. He was an easy target. Who goes for low hanging fruits? Who early pressured Paladin but took forever to vote him until the wagon was safe? Reread that section. I pointed this out yesterday. No fucks were given. Then Paladin at least threw a jester grenade to see who would jump on it. <--You redeemed yourself with that Paladin.


No. Not in the slightest. All of his hypothetical neutral talk was straight forward sincere game theory discussion from an inexperienced player. Those kinds of questions make sense from a town who wants to learn more.

Again, Paladin wasn't the first or only one to start asking questions that got him on the hot seat in the first place. The difference was he was the easiest target to pressure and continue poking into a lynch scarecrow.

If you revisit the first 200 posts, maybe you'll see what I mean, and notice about 3 other players asking the same questions regarding mechanics, specifically about what advantages scum have.

I see a severe divide between Paladin and GameFreak.

I joined the Paladin train after one post suggested neutral (because he failed to include any statement suggesting it was a hypothetical question that ONE post). But by no means is he the banker. I bet he is legitimately a citizen.

I'm curious to see how more players view GameFreak after his reemergence into this thread.

[Frog]

Alright, Frog. You said there's no reason for town to hide information, and that lynching SuperJack was paramount since you were going to die because of being super town and stuff.

There's no rush now; present your supossed case against SuperJack, and explain the previous day's shenanigans.

already did

[Frog]

NoctiZ

Sheep the guilty.

Which was why I almost sheeped RLVG;s early vote on Damus. Clearly something changed because Noctiz has no pressure.


Are you going to hard claim?
It would be good, since you already revealed your feedback.

Implying you aren't lying about feedback, which would be batcrap insane unless Jester:
If you are a Student, then it means either NoctiZ is scum or framed.
If you are Constable, it means either NoctiZ is scum, Noctiz is framed, your other target is scum, or your other target is framed.

Knowing this is important, since one option gives 50% chance of NoctiZ being scum, while the other is only 25%.

i r good at math too! Your percentages are wrong because they;re based on outcomes, not possibilities. Still nicely organized.


Role fishing.

I thought so too from ~5 people not including Titus. [Noctiz, Toadette, RLVG,Sen,DarknessB]. I think you're covering but it's a weird target to cover for.


SuperJack in da house! Welcome to day 2.

Frog. Get your vote off me. It's useless and a waste of time.

I will be putting in some real effort here on a particular player.

No. I hope to see you fulfill the last part.


Your face is fishy.

Agreed.


Firebringer

She wants TPR role claim. Lol.


All he'll do is post an "iso" aka all the posts someone has made, vote them, and then Frog will town read him. The cycle continues.

Such discredits. I want to claim sheriff guilty on you now. I'll present my case on you EOD twilight.


VC 2.0

NoctiZ (1): Firebringer
SuperJack (1): Frog
Damus_Graves (1): RLVG
Firebringer (1): Toadette

Awesome

Was concerned why Titus backed off leading the Noctiz wagon.


Cool, just like Frog was ready to see me and Paladin lose. You guys are a joke.

I'm getting tired of this. These account for 50%+ of your posts.


Firebringer.

1. Limelights himself without stepping out of it, on purpose.
2. Call out on multiple times, continues to trash the daychat with attention focused on him.
3. Doesn't do anything to stop the attention.

Are you a fucking Jester?

He's using his Town read from Paladin as cover for TPRs.

If Identity Thief is lynched D1, do they flip as their target?


I don't know i should believe fire. The only dirt on Noc is that he went with the SJ praise i think.
Not even sure about that.

Come on GF...
Noctiz -
Post #607
"Fire and RLVG are thieves and want Lost Customer to join their bond? I'll believe it.

Atm TDL and Sen are my top town reads. Followed by SJ, Titus, Toadette, Paladin. After that it's Damus_Graves, Frog, Gamefreak, RLVG and Firebringer on the scummiest level. Anyone I forgot? Hopefully not."
I understand he was focused on RLVG's gambit revolving publicly allying Firebringer in day chat and that reciprocal nature, but I think Noctiz got this wrong. Noctiz, although wrong, and although he gives a slight bump to SJ on the town reads, I feel is actively following the game and pushing. I'll slight town read Noctiz with a nod to True neutral.Noctiz -
Post #607
"Fire and RLVG are thieves and want Lost Customer to join their bond? I'll believe it.

Atm TDL and Sen are my top town reads. Followed by SJ, Titus, Toadette, Paladin. After that it's Damus_Graves, Frog, Gamefreak, RLVG and Firebringer on the scummiest level. Anyone I forgot? Hopefully not."


I mean, it's stunning that if Firebringer is somehow Town, he's refusing to provide his actual evidence AFTER saying that NoctiZ was guilty. What Town player does that? Maybe this some nutty reaction test gambit?

It's standard in a 1 cop game to do what fire is doing. Anyone NOT doing what Fire is doing is suspect IMO. Esp players who should know better.

I would like at minimum a REAON why Fire chose Noctiz. How is Noctiz related to Toadette?

[Frog]

DarknessB keeps coming back as the common scum. Always amongst groups of players acting scum for whatever reason. :-/

[SuperJack]

Fire please give the reaon.

[Frog]

By the way, since we're talking feedback a/the banker gave me a coin.


Risk outweighed the reward. There's not a certainty that I'll get robbed and there may be redirection roles in the game. We can narrow down the banker this way. If someone was blocked, we can eliminate them as the banker.

I thought about how to play the coin game in a few ways. Real claim, Fake claim, No Claim. I agree, I think your method is best especially this early.


Why do you say this? I'm certain to have one "banker" coin but I may or may not have been stolen from prior nights. If I draw both thieves robs and only have the banker coin... It's wifom. The fact the banker successfully gave me a coin isn't. If the corrupt police then target me to steal all my shit, they'd be neutered.

Let scums worry about the wifom, while this narrows down the Banker.

Again, agree.

[Frog]

@SuperJack

I like where you're headed. Make a case for or against DarknessB.

Post #1421

You have the shittiest statistical stats ever.

[Frog]

Lol, Toadette, you were fucking correct about SuperJack.

I'm taking this as a defense of DarknessB rather than suspicion on SuperJack, especially considering your vote (with Toadette) at this point.

[Frog]

I've read and noticed he has strong signs with being scum. I believe he is scum.
Now its my job to share my thoughts and convince everyone else.

SuperJack, ATM it's a weak direct (although I don't disagree with your choice). Waiting on your line of reasoning. I've provided some insight as to why I agree with you. I'm curious what lead you to the same conclusion.

[Frog]

SJ is weird in that he's making himself intentionally unreadable. That multiquote ISO post after Toadette predicted it was intentional, gotta be. Leads me to the conclusion that he does not want to be read which means he could have multiple motives. It's scummy in that it makes things harder, adding unnecessary confusion.

Frog is trying hard to seem like a deep analyst and goes on and on about various levels of play and goes from making sense to posting all fluff. Fact is that he posts a lot however and pressures people with votes and taking apart what they're saying. It doesn't feel very towny to me though because he doesn't stick to a vote for a longer amount of time or follows it very intently. He only wants to be oppressive and doesn't really pack a punch which means he doesn't care about the result. Feels that way to me.

100% agree with your analysis. I recognize that's how I can be seen at this point because I haven't made a reasoned case against anyone yet (I've only noted individual examples of pings). I've only defended 2 people reasonably: Damus and Paladin. It's a fair assessment of me so far.

[Frog]

That's an unnecessarily complicated extra layer. If we were to take that into account, we should also consider all possible roleblockes, redirections, and any other action which might affect that.
Whatever the case, the difference between the chance of NoctiZ being scum in either scenario (Student or Constable) would be the same (in terms of percentage) no matter how much you complicate it.



From the setup:


In short, the Constable doesn't know which of their targets is scum after getting a guilty result. Only that at least one of them is scum/framed.


You're all very close but missing the main point I think SuperJack was trying to bring out (although by no means is this town points for SuperJack):
You're focused on outcomes instead of possibilities dependent on multiple players. This significantly skews the % chance of outcomes to be more in line with correct checks vs. faulty checks.

[Frog]

Let me help. Firebringer is an Idiot.

@SuperJack

Did you just claim corrupt cop with Fire?

[Frog]

You are awful teammate.

Lol. Nvm

[Frog]

I'm thinking a strong core of Toadette, Frog, TDL, Sen, myself, Notty basically bitchslaps the fuck out of this game. Anyone got a problem with that block?

I need to revisit TDL input and Sen's intentions. Otherwise looks solid on surface level.

[Damus_Graves]

I need to revisit TDL input and Sen's intentions. Otherwise looks solid on surface level.

Why no es me? Tears

[Frog]

Host announcement: NoctiZ has been mod-killed for slipping out of the game.

Role and alignment will not be disclosed until the end of the day.

Apologies for the abrupt announcement.

Host will be unavailable for the majority of tomorrow.

That's a huge blow to pro-town core. I saw him as neut prob but pro-town always.

[Frog]

Ok I CBA and its wasting time and I cant trust firebringer to not be extra stupid:

Me and Firebringer are corrupted cops. One of the possibilities he can be is Constable. So it sticks to me




My reason for my aggression on DarknessB i'll post my notes a lot later, takes me hours to finish them but basically:

He is very passive and not aggressive.
Oh
And wait

HE HAS NEVER VOTED

Which, is what I do as scum. I avoid voting, especially when people have been very interested in VCA recently. He fears voting, and pushing against anyone. He cowers from the limelight.
He is scum. Avoiding voting completly, even when I taught him.

This makes more sense. I agree with your reasoning. I feel there is significantly more reasoning, but it's enough. Of course that reopens RLVG now as well.

DarknessB

[Frog]

Ok seriously, SJ is the ideal lynch.

SJ claims corrupt cop. It'll be near impossible for Corrupt Cops to win with the banker if SJ is being honest if we lynch SJ. If not, then SJ fakeclaimed and needs to die anyway. We'll still have the constable alive if they're telling the truth. Lynching SJ is the best possible action IMO.

Interesting.

SJ claims corrupt cop to 'save' FB.
SJ is corrupt cop with FB.
SJ is decoying corrupt cop for FB.

I think SJ IS corrupt cop with FB.

We can go through this in several ways from here.

We lynch the corrupt cop to stop the greed win-con, wasting a lynch that would otherwise be on Banker, or Thief.

We pressure the corrupt cop to leash his actions (e.g. who they targeted and WHY).

We continue to pressure for the remainder of the day:
DarknessB
GameFreak

I'm still waiting on answers from Fire. I'm curious to see how Fire and SuperJack continue on from here.

In any case, coins going to an outted corrupt cop prolong the banker win-con a little more. And if SJ is decoying, then it pro-longs it almost indefinitely. SJ will be a prime night target now regardless.

I see more benefit keeping SJ alive for pure night actions than not, not to mention not wasting today's lynch.

[Frog]

I'm considering this. If fire speaks truth and noc is scum, then there's one thief left and by lynching super we hinder the possibility of the game ending early with the corrupt cops winning alone, as well as elinate the possibility of a mislynch. This actually makes sense

SuperJack

I can understand this logic. I didn't even think of that originally. Because I believe Fire's claim on Noctiz to be unfortunately true, it's worth pursuing. Because Titus included Ncotiz in the townblock, and then proceeds to vote SJ on the assumption that he may be wrong, leaves me a bit confused. Toadette's reasoning is more sound.

[Frog]

Corrupt cops aren't town currently and can win alone. Keep them on a leash and avoid a mislynch. Noc was a gift and if he's town, then we avoid being down 2 town, if he's scum there's only one leash left.

So by this logic, it'd be best to lynch Firebringer rather than SuperJack. Since SuperJack could be decoying for FB, whether as Town, Thief, or Neut.

[Frog]

Unless they have 8 coins, they win along with the Town. The Cops siding with the town is the smart play. I don't see why you are threating them like they are our enemy, and even worse; like they're more important of a target than actual scum.

^ We're more in line with strategy going forward.

[Frog]

Here's the deal:

Super vouches for Fires lead, meaning the probability of Moc being scum is high

If Nov is scum there's 5 town, 2 corrupt cops, 3 neutral and 1 thief left. Hitting the last thief is not very probable, lynching another town is 5/9, so very probable

We lynch super, its 5 town, 1 corrupt cop, 3 neutral and 1 thief

Also makes it harder for Fire to end the ge early on us

Meh. I know I'm town so my pool is:

4 town (excluding myself) vs. 7 non town

Either noctiz was town making it 3 v 7 OR noctiz was non -town making it 4 vs.6

The odds of a correct lynch aren't bad at all either way.

But I can appreciate your logic.

I'm saying it's unnecessary to waste a lynch on a corrupt cop claim. It feels like you're not even trying to go for Thief or Banker.

[Frog]

If super is truthful, Noc is probably scum

Present to me a better target than Super, otherwise it seems logical to lynch him, as a safe move

DarknessB
GameFreak

Both are easily better lynches today with this information

[Frog]

No. We fucking scumhunt, rekt the baddies and win with the cops.
Toadette
You aren't making any sense.

Yeah dude. Because we're outnumbered and non-townies will dictate round-about ways to encourage not ending the game as fast as possible for town victory.

[Frog]

I was given no coins, I have the Initial starting coins of 1. So I am neither Bailiff or Detainer, the only currupt roles that work with coins.

To win with coins I need 8 coins in Total.

Firebringer is either Traffic Warden, Constable or Sentry. So another 1 coin.

We have 2 coins.

Saying that the banker visits us every night from now on means 3 more days have to pass with 0 thiefs stealing from us.




This means. That lynching one of us today INSTEAD OF SCUM ROLES. Is incredibly stupid.

So you roleblocked DarknessB. Awesome. DarknessB, assuming Noctiz was Thief, makes the last Thief. Pro-town moves SJ.

[Frog]

No. Lynching a pretty much confirmed Cop is a wasted chance at lynching scum. I'm here to lynch scum, not possible future scum.

Sen, RLVG, GameFreak, SJ, FB

We vote DarknessB, K?

[Frog]

Then we'll simply get the Banker. From the information given, it's neither Titus 'nor TheDarkestLight as both have claimed to have gained a coin.
That's already 2 players removed on PoE.

Or one or both are decoying. Derrr. Especially if Banker gave a coin to greed win-conners which is statistically likely.

Banker signals the greed win-conner that he is the banker by claiming to have received a coin. Greeder stays silent so the signal is returned.

[Frog]

FYI - that makes TDL the banker in this scenario.

[Frog]

Trying to lynch 1 specific role out of 9 people is unrealistic and could lead to unnecessary mass claim this early.

I would propose a no lynch since we were already gifted Noc, or a lynch of Super or Fire. Its the safe move to play before Nocs flip

Remember, we still don't know how Noc will flip. If he flips town, then Fire was likely lying. We can't automatically assume Nocs flipping scum

laughing my fucking anus out. You're either a greeder or a NK.

[Frog]

Damus_Graves

This person is like... fucking slipping by and no one seems to notice. I think he's a good replacement vote over the cops.

I won't back this today.

[Frog]

That is unless Firebringer and SJ are thieves, then the corrupt cops, mafia and banker would all object to SJ's lynch.

It's a curious claim I had a suspicion on - I suspected SJ may be Corrupt Cop at one point but wrote it off too early.

The reason I wrote it off was because he was questioning me being a corrupt cop signaling to a partner.

I reasoned this was a potential cover as it was about the only meaningful thing he had said all D1 up u ntil that point (around Post 450's I think).

Judging by Fire's response, I see Fire-SJ are CC's together.

[Firebringer]

Hey frog, if you are reporter. Give me and SuperJack a room to talk.

DarknessB

[Firebringer]

Vote Count 2.2

DarknessB (3): Firebringer, Frog, SuperJack
Firebringer (1): RLVG
NoctiZ (1): Toadette
SuperJack (2): Titus, DarknessB
Titus (2): Sen, GameFreak
Damus_Graves (1): TheDarkestLight

[Firebringer]

I heavily expect Noctiz to flip Neutral or possibly if we are lucky Thief.
I still believe their was a good chance he was night immune.
If he was, both Damus and Toadette should be looked into more.


Toadette right now is the target of two players that I have yet to announce.

[Damus_Graves]

Imma target TDL tonight.

[SuperJack]

I heavily expect Noctiz to flip Neutral or possibly if we are lucky Thief.
I still believe their was a good chance he was night immune.
If he was, both Damus and Toadette should be looked into more.


Toadette right now is the target of two players that I have yet to announce.

Which roles are night kill immune?

[Firebringer]

Which roles are night kill immune?

Neutral killings.

[SuperJack]

Neutral killings.

Where does it state this?

[Firebringer]

Where does it state this?

Apparently only in my head.

[Firebringer]

I swear I looked at this setup before, I told Calix "Change NK to Night Immune, its already hard to win for them"
And she said they would be night immune.

>.>

[Frog]

Yeah I did. I said the only people who should vocally object to this lynch are the Banker and the alleged Corrupt cops if they're telling the truth. You're vocally objecting and the only one really.

I called you out as the Banker.

Corrupt Cops aren't our allies. They're yours Sen, because I think you're the Banker.


I'm not discussing this TDL. I'm doing it. This isn't a discussion.

It's not town. It dies.

Those roles aren't pro town. Firebringer has utility, if honest. We still haven't even established Firebringer wasn't just wifoming from his ass.

Ok. I'm Town. I'm outnumbered. If I were to vote on the basis of "kill anything non-town", I wouldn't have majority vote to see that happen.

I am allied with corrupt cops right now. I think Fire and SuperJack just played very pro-town.

I think you're ignoring that both of them may have caught A thief.

Maybe FB and SJ blocked Noctiz and DarknessB. Thus the targetted scum hunt. I think if we straddle their leads, we end up with a MINIMUM of one dead thief. Instead of possible town flip Noc + flip corrupt cop.

Then Town truly is fucked.

[Firebringer]

Titus is very.....not thinking clearly.
She is wrapped up in the mindset of "lynch non townies"
That she doesn't realize that this game started with "6" town. Thats if you want to say CP are not town [which I heavily disagree]

That doesn't even give them a majority to reach a lynch.....13 players means you need 7 for a lynch.
You need a CP to get a lynch of just by those numbers alone.

Now, theres only 5 town. Assuming Noctiz of course isn't town. With 12 alive you still need a CP to get a lynch otherwise you are relying on other neutrals or a Thief.


Number wise, you can't be this against neutrals. It just isn't being rational.

[SuperJack]

Plus me and fire are sexy and are already well hung.

[Firebringer]

Also i want to claim additional feedback I haven't mentioned.
At start of day Calix told me I had two coins.
Then she corrected it by saying I had 1.

This makes me a assume a few things based on this Host error:
1) Banker visited me and gave me a coin
2) Thief also visited me and stole a coin.

[Frog]

Why aren't you voting me, then? A dead Banker makes currency useless, fixing the Cops as Town allies and making the Thieves unable to win by stealing money.

Titus
Let's get this started. (:

Did you just claim banker?

[Firebringer]

Did you just claim banker?

Titus called Sen a banker, and Sen was basically questioning why she wasn't voting him. Since a dead banker is way better than a dead CP, especially since dead banker forces CP to be true town.

Basically another case of Titus not making sense.
Starting to think she is a Jester

[Frog]

So you want to kill your allies instead of forcing them on your side? Fucking solid logic.


Seems like a

1) You're assuming I'm town here (note the emphasis on killing my allies). If you thought I was scum legitimately, you wouldn't be phrasing this as killing my allies.
2) This 100% assumes Fire and SJ are telling the truth. Which that foundation is sketchy at best.

3) Lynching SJ forces Fire to work with the town as he can't win with the banker most likely if honest.

Lynching SJ is the 100% best move for town. Town knows it too.

My logic is solid.

You don't come play on my turf and expect to win Sen.

Agree with your first point.

Your second point was countered by SJ's post: "If I'm lying, why haven't and CC's counter claimed?

Your third point evades the question - why are not focusing on lynching hard non-aligned scum? We're actually hurting Town's power by taking out allies by sheer numbers.

If days roll on with no end in sight, we can always lynch/kill the corrupt cops when the time is relevant. It's NOT relevant at this moment. The point is the corrupt cops ARE leashed now.

[Frog]

I can compromise on this if host agrees.

SuperJack lynch > Noc lynch (aka no lynch) > anyone else (unless someone slips or such)

Again, this is a circle jerk of logic I disagree with. Focus on hard scum instead.

[Firebringer]

Their is no fucking leash you god damn morons.

Me and SuperJack don't give two shits about coins.
We can't fucking win with the coins.

We have 1 coin each.
We aren't going to win that way especially since we both revealed ourselves.

You all are fucking brain dead if you don't think we are aligned with the town right now.

[Frog]

I won't agree to a Titus lynch. That's a mislynch waiting to happen.

I agree. But not because I agree with Titus' logic.

Titus claimed receiving a banker coin, as did TDL.

The odds of one of them being a banker is high IMO with a lean to TDL for claiming second.

[Firebringer]

Theres a person right here.
You can talk to.

Right now.

But nope, lets respond to people who aren't here.

[Frog]

And still this play does not bother you. Just placing his vote (after I attacked him for not voting) on my and running off since he is now not in the spotlight?

And his only reason: "I can get behind lynching Towns Ally"

No opinion, no thought, no accusations.

This person is screaming scum.

Post #1654

YESSS!!! It's not OMGUS. SuperJack was already on Darkness' case.

[Frog]

Theres a person right here.
You can talk to.

Right now.

But nope, lets respond to people who aren't here.

I'm ALMOST done. Also, I had a lot of questions that are already being answered.

Alright, You and SuperJack confirmed team?

[SuperJack]

These past few hours have been amusing. Watching a live catching up from frog.

[Frog]

You're not a TPR -- you're a part of the separate non-Town faction that be corrupted against the Town. I notice that you keep dropping the phrase "town allies" in your posts. Merely because you keep saying that isn't going to convince people.

Discredit.

They convinced me. The most obvious way was self-outting today. The next method was pinpointing scum. Noctiz and/or You. Although I briefly read something about Fire having info on Toadette which was a light head scratcher but I get it now.

[Frog]

These past few hours have been amusing. Watching a live catching up from frog.

Lol. I was so ready to lynch you today. You would have claimed at some point, good job doing it earlier than later.

[SuperJack]

Time was being wasted on corrupt cops. Instead of the Scum.

[Frog]

How is Firebringer actively scum hunting? He basically refused to give his evidence on NoctiZ?

You also can't control if you get corrupted by the Banker and fed coins, especially now that you've both outed yourselves..

Lol. I think we can find the banker in 3 days. I already have a theory on how to pursue it. What work have you done in finding the banker?

[Frog]

Lynchbait. And Idiocy.

He was easily comfirmable by me.


Thieves are most likely to try and rob us.
Even if by some magic, we got 2 coins per day end, it would take another 3 days to win in that method.
If we find out who the banker is via feedback, we would just reveal him over being stupid and hiding him.

^ This

SuperJack was also great lynchbait.

I.E. everyone shitting on SJ, I say "Hey guys SJ isn't so bad because reasons".
Players either said "Eh, I guess you're right he's not so bad because no reasons."
Or
"You're bat shit crazy, SJ is 100% not helping town."
or
"Absolutely no comment on something that should be obvious."

IMO, it's the basis for my D1 reads.

[Frog]

Wow DarknessB. 0 Scum hunting this game. The closest you got to it was early when RVLG was "slightly scummy" because of his "odd setup speculation"
I see a lot of: "agreed, sure, fair point"
Quite friendly huh, don't want anyone on your bad side?
And now you are happy settling down and lynching a Corrupt Cop over any other scum. Seems to me like its most likely my objective to see you eliminated.

When directly questioned, DarknessB pivoted his opinion on GameFreak.

Note that of RLVG and GameFreak, DarknessB hasn't had any hot pursuit of either.

[Frog]

When you return sen I have a question.
Are you the banker?


Unrelated,
I was stolen from last night. That's two robberies.
I attracted multiple nightly attentions last night.

I was also curious about this because it looked like Sen slip/claimed Banker.
But based on the receiving coins claim it seems narrowed between Titus and TDL.

Such confusion.

[Frog]

Ok to point out this DarknessB never Voted (Apart from me at this point, obviously)

Here are some contridictionary posts made by DarknessB when he tells us all how great voting is






So his points where:
-Vote people if they seem to of done something scummy.
-Vote people to make them respond.

He has done neither of these, and you can not say this whole game no one has not done anything slightly scummy, or that other people where not responding.

Yeah, it's a contradiction. One of my posts in the early 1700's points this out as well without the particular quotes you brought up.

SJ - you make me happy now. <3

Post #1688 for a SJ pressure post with quotes

[Frog]

I've had a thought. TDL = banker.
Whatcha think?

Mindmeld. Damus is obv town.

[Frog]

I'm thinking this because once SJ put him and fire into the spotlight he tried switching momentum to me out of the blue. Town players at this moment are deciding what to do with the claimed cops and TDL wants a different direction. The Banker role wants the cops to stick around if I'm reading the setup correctly and this behavior fits that's category.

Another post that I'm not crazy!

Post about TDL banker with a fresh point I hadn't considered.

[Frog]

If so many people think I'm aligned with so many other people why not just vote me? Stupid.

Relax. Don't get pissed Toadette. Most of the scum reads on you aren't 100% genuine.

[Frog]

Because that's what it looks like to me.


What does Noctiz have to do with you?

Post #1703

Damus brings out the guns with supporting quotes and pressuring Toadette. This is why you're my top town read.

[Frog]

The game is shrouded in mystery and I am just a humble journeyman piecing together a puzzle. Sometimes the pieces don't fit.

That's fair. Thanks for talking it out with me.

Read Fire's early posts D2 if you want more sense of it.

[Frog]

-Fluff


-Agreeding with Sen


-Friendly with Toadette


-Fluff


-Agreeing with TheDarkestLight


-Fluff


-Just explains how ThePaladin is posting so Fluff


Fluff


-States the obvious



-When you find something you feel safe talking about, repeat it. It makes you look involved.


-Fluff


-Fluff


-States what has happened again. Just has "null" reads.


Meta discussion about RNG and RVLG, nothing game worthy + TPR hunting.


-Fluff


-Fluff


-Fluff


-Questions firebringer about read.


-Agreeing with TDL + sounding like the wiki.


-Defends himself when accused of having a new opinion, distracts at end to Frog thoughts.


-Firebringer previously stated to why he reads RLVG as town, and just ignores this and repeats the question.


-This is perhaps the most effort DarknessB has put into the game. 1/4 of the way though day 1. Most of his points are short or null, calls people he sees as scummy, calls people he reads as Null. Yet does nothing about these players.


-here, he claims he will vote someone if they do something scummy. Yet has never voted someone.


-Goes along and agrees again, Firebringer has already answered this question (see post HERE (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/34902-S-FM-179-Cop-Out?p=563503&viewfull=1#post563503))


States that using votes to pressure people is a good idea to those that don't respond.
-DISPITE NEVER VOTING HIMSELF


Another sucking up post. Then a bunch of it cant but it can bes.


Finds RVLG scummy. Does not push at all. Just friendly suggestions


Fluff


-This one is Interesting its fluff. But for some reason he assumes that people have questions for him, as if they would suspect him (although at this point no one would). I believe this is just his scum role making him feel nervous and at risk.



-Because everyone is voting him I can also vote him...(Does not vote). Agrees that his actions can bee seen as anti-town yet he never directly claims this, leaving le-way for it being a mis-lynch


-Joins in the focus on Paladin, still does not vote.


-Fluff


This is in reply to sen saying "Why don't you contribute something of your own instead of simply expecting us to lead the conversation for you?"
The way darknessB replied to this, makes him seem like he knows he has been spotted. And Sens comment is exactly true and spot on (even now)


Gets called out for using Meta to agree with the Paladin lynch.


Firebringer calls out Sen for pushing DarknessB to contribute more, and DarknessB jumps on this statement and takes the highground.


Uses the argument of Wifom to push Paladins use of Wifom away.


-Give me as much information as possible before the day ends please.


-Both been useless and trolly, I've not voted either of them and not even bothered with SuperJack


-Frog is buddying with SuperJack, please not other scum.


Fluff


Fluff


Fluff


Fluff


Fluff


Fluff


Fluff


Fluff


-DarknessB is running out of things to talk about


Fluff

-Pushes Paladin for a read only on FB's status as town.



Fluff


Fluff


Fluff


Fluff

Fluff


Fluff


Fluff


Fluff


Fluff


Fluff


Fluff


-*Waits for DarknessBs Citizen claim*


Meta Fluff



-Pushes Firebringer to reveal completly

- Fluff


-Fair Point. I agree. I thought this to some sort of reaction test or lynch bait.


-Just making sure


-DarknessB once again running commentary on the game


-This is the point he leaves the discussion. (After I tell him to fear me)


Sure I'm partial to "RL" but I've also seen some instances where RL is just "other stuff to avoid this"

- Fluff


- Fluff He is trying to throw off the initial claim with Humour, rather than fight back.


- Fluff


-After discussion was held without DarknessB being involve, I prompted again. He just confirms he is actively lurking.


-Bats it back to FB


-His playstyle is apparently give good reasons to why to vote people, and never do it himself.


-Tries to use the times he was not around to excuse his absence from voting and being involved. When infact I was targeting the times he was around.


-FIRST VOTE YEY.
but its basically his first attack back at me. He has not even bothered to acknowledge anything I have said and instead just sneaks onto the train


-For some reason he prompts lynching Towns Ally as opposed to any scum hunting at all, avoids to defend ones self.


-This Im sorry about. I was mad at this point.


-Funny but when I call him out on things he is around to counter them. Problem is everytime I've called him out on something now he may change it.


-Appealing to me, rarther than making a case for yourself. Not good at all, I started pushing on you before I revealed as cop. No one is buying my push on you at that point, because It was accently left out early.


-I consider myself TPR, and comfirmed at that. Playing for greed is stupid given our roles.


-Yes


-FB has put in more work than you have at this point. So much more. You have done absolutely nothing


-My role and situation is more pro-town than anything. I consider myself town.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________

Player: DarknessB
Alignment: Neutral Scum over Thieves.
Summery:
The whole game he has been over the top friendly with people, constantly agreeing with what other people say.
If its not this is is giving people a running commentary of the situation.
in other words, he is avoiding confrontation, he is avoiding on getting on anyone badside. The most aggressive he has been is the late retaliation to me.
Then he has never actively scum hunted, the closest he got was just either a very small suggestion on RVLG in the early game, and then on just agreeing with people on Paladin.
He never pushed people, never push people he saw as scum or not contributing. He was just always hanging around being friendy and sucking up.
Never once using his vote at all, until I call him out on it.
At this point he votes me with empty reason "I agree" and has only showed himself after I prompt him.
He is letting everyone else carry on any discussion, and people are letting him do this because he will agree with what you say.
I see him neutral scum over thieves as there has not been much communication with other players outside his agreeing. And the fact he is trying to remain as neutral as possible.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________
Votes:

NONE

Ok to point out this DarknessB never Voted (Apart from me at this point, obviously)

Here are some contridictionary posts made by DarknessB when he tells us all how great voting is






So his points where:
-Vote people if they seem to of done something scummy.
-Vote people to make them respond.

He has done neither of these, and you can not say this whole game no one has not done anything slightly scummy, or that other people where not responding.
Then note:
He agreed that Paladin was very scummy
He mentioned multiple times he saw RVLG as slighty scummy, and even in the most friendlyest manner said he is FOS @ him.
He agreed I was very lurky and trolly.
He agreed with FB that Sen hasn't been truly contributing

Feedback


Number
Day


1
Empty.



Role PoV



Corrupted Cops
Banker



Views
Must Lynch
None. Avoided.




#1722 beautiful spot on

[Frog]

My reasoning for my guilty btw, is Noctiz was the target of two players.
Toadette and Damus Graves.

Zero kill happened last night.
I am assuming one of those two are a killing role and Noctiz is Night Immune.

This was my lead.


With all that said:
Toadette

Out of the two, I am assuming she is a killer.

I'd follow SJ's lead over that

[GameFreak]

I'm right on time for the Frog live recap i see.

I feel like DB and Titus are scum, DB as everyone stated is playing his full on neutral game and Titus is doing her hardest to move the train to the comfirmed cops.
So Frog is the reporter, i can't believe it.

[Frog]

My reasoning for my guilty btw, is Noctiz was the target of two players.
Toadette and Damus Graves.

Zero kill happened last night.
I am assuming one of those two are a killing role and Noctiz is Night Immune.

This was my lead.


I targeted no one last night. (Anticipated spree killer on me which would have taken out the thief and banker that targeted me at expense of my life) alas.

Does Traffic Warden force players to use action?

[GameFreak]

Frog who did you put in day chat together ?

[Frog]

I'm right on time for the Frog live recap i see.

I feel like DB and Titus are scum, DB as everyone stated is playing his full on neutral game and Titus is doing her hardest to move the train to the comfirmed cops.
So Frog is the reporter, i can't believe it.

Kill/rob me tonight and see.

[Frog]

Frog throws around the word town a lot. And boasts about being town read by everyone.
When you throw town into every other sentence it becomes a scum tell.

I'm confirmed Town. RIP

[GameFreak]

Its a shame Noctiz is gone because it would have been nice to see his feedback from Toadette and Damus, if Fire isn't lying. Because now that he's dead he can lie however he want.
But he couldnt anticipate this when he claimed.

[GameFreak]

Kill/rob me tonight and see.

Lol

[Frog]

Lol

You're going to love my D2 ISO on you. Hopefully it one ups my D1 ISO on you.

[Frog]

Imma target TDL tonight.

Best choice of the 3.

[Frog]

I swear I looked at this setup before, I told Calix "Change NK to Night Immune, its already hard to win for them"
And she said they would be night immune.

>.>

The lolz are so great.

Does traffic warden affect factional kills?
Does traffic warden force factional kills?
I already asked this as well:
Does traffic warden force night actions even if players don't submit?
Does traffic warden force players to visit others if they don't have the ability to visit?

[Frog]

Titus is very.....not thinking clearly.
She is wrapped up in the mindset of "lynch non townies"
That she doesn't realize that this game started with "6" town. Thats if you want to say CP are not town [which I heavily disagree]

That doesn't even give them a majority to reach a lynch.....13 players means you need 7 for a lynch.
You need a CP to get a lynch of just by those numbers alone.

Now, theres only 5 town. Assuming Noctiz of course isn't town. With 12 alive you still need a CP to get a lynch otherwise you are relying on other neutrals or a Thief.


Number wise, you can't be this against neutrals. It just isn't being rational.

Ding ding ding!


Plus me and fire are sexy and are already well hung.

Dong dong dong!


Also i want to claim additional feedback I haven't mentioned.
At start of day Calix told me I had two coins.
Then she corrected it by saying I had 1.

This makes me a assume a few things based on this Host error:
1) Banker visited me and gave me a coin
2) Thief also visited me and stole a coin.

Calix, in fire's scenario, wouldn't he receive the following feedback messages?
You received interest from the bank = Given a coin
You wake up to find that your wallet has gone missing = Coin stolen

[Frog]

Titus called Sen a banker, and Sen was basically questioning why she wasn't voting him. Since a dead banker is way better than a dead CP, especially since dead banker forces CP to be true town.

Basically another case of Titus not making sense.
Starting to think she is a Jester

Impossible. Noctiz was Jester. He said so so it must be true.

[Frog]

Time was being wasted on corrupt cops. Instead of the Scum.

Because you're leashed now and I'm too tired to do it.

Can you put together the list of people focusing on lynching corrupt cops today (including Titus, Toadette)
And another list of those defending you guys (including myself, Sen, RLVG, GameFreak)
And another list of people who have no view on it one way or another

[Frog]

I'm right on time for the Frog live recap i see.

I feel like DB and Titus are scum, DB as everyone stated is playing his full on neutral game and Titus is doing her hardest to move the train to the comfirmed cops.
So Frog is the reporter, i can't believe it.

Who else fits in with DB & Titus? You ignored Toadette in particular.

[Frog]

Its a shame Noctiz is gone because it would have been nice to see his feedback from Toadette and Damus, if Fire isn't lying. Because now that he's dead he can lie however he want.
But he couldnt anticipate this when he claimed.

Noctiz can leave it in his last will. Unfortunately he can't preverify it but I hardly find it a legitimate concern.

[Frog]

Finally.

Are neut killers attack immune?

[Frog]

Once these questions are answered we can begin real speculation.

Otherwise, hot seat pressure on DarknessB and GameFreak to do some hunting. DarknessB gets the nod over GameFreak IMO but both are very suspect.

[SuperJack]

Because you're leashed now and I'm too tired to do it.

Can you put together the list of people focusing on lynching corrupt cops today (including Titus, Toadette)
And another list of those defending you guys (including myself, Sen, RLVG, GameFreak)
And another list of people who have no view on it one way or another

Not really. I'm mobile and off to work. I'll RE-read and post the quick version when I can.

Also I am not leashed. We are two loyal police dogs who don't need a leash because you are our best friend not master.

[SuperJack]

At least Game freak wasn't stupid enough to vote me. <3

[SuperJack]

Sen was defending me. Reasoning Scum hunting is more important.
Gamefreak was defending me because I am Cop.
Titus is was against me because she is stubbornly convinced that lynching a cop is the only good option.
Toadette had similar reasons as Titus but weaseled out when Firebringers claimed she she lots her main point.
DarknessB votes me because he had no other option and I was attacking him.

Damus was lurking according to TDL and TDL just spent him's time pointing at Damus. Neither got involved. Dani's I later repaid the favour

RVLG just hung around the sidelines.

[GameFreak]

I mean, its pretty obvious town can't win with cops being revealed so ofcourse i'll defend them.

[SuperJack]

OMG you have an avatar.
You have made me so happy.

[GameFreak]

I did it just for you bae.

[Frog]

I did it just for you bae.

I think you win $10 now. Oh wait... only for new players. :-P

[Frog]

@GameFreak

I still stand by my previous analysis. You're being scum read.

[Frog]

Votecount Vote Count

DarknessB (3):
Firebringer, Frog, SuperJack

Firebringer (1):
RLVG

NoctiZ (1):
Toadette

SuperJack (2):
Titus, DarknessB

Titus (2):
Sen, GameFreak

Damus_Graves (1):
TheDarkestLight

Damus is just chilling.

============
Who Posted?
Posts 282
Frog

Posts 273
Firebringer

Posts 214
Toadette

Posts 173
RLVG

Posts 170
Sen

Posts 142
ThePaladin

Posts 118
Damus_Graves

Posts 111
SuperJack

Posts 108
Titus

Posts 86
DarknessB

Posts 68
TheDarkestLight

Posts 66
NoctiZ

Posts 42
GameFreak

Posts 16
Calix

=======

My Banker suspects in order:
TDL, Titus, Sen

My Non town Suspects roughly in order + Banker Suspects (excluding Sen):
DarknessB
GameFreak
Toadette (distant last)

[RLVG]

1) No feedback
2) RLVG can be the spokesperson for reporter chat - I'm obviously reporter b/c I know this
3) We're on a full spread again. Why?

You're claiming Reporter.


Sen, RLVG, GameFreak, SJ, FB

We vote DarknessB, K?

Okay.

DarknessB


Titus is very.....not thinking clearly.
She is wrapped up in the mindset of "lynch non townies"
That she doesn't realize that this game started with "6" town. Thats if you want to say CP are not town [which I heavily disagree]

That doesn't even give them a majority to reach a lynch.....13 players means you need 7 for a lynch.
You need a CP to get a lynch of just by those numbers alone.

Now, theres only 5 town. Assuming Noctiz of course isn't town. With 12 alive you still need a CP to get a lynch otherwise you are relying on other neutrals or a Thief.


Number wise, you can't be this against neutrals. It just isn't being rational.

Basically defending the Banker for being a cop yourself lol.



So Frog, feel my salt. This reporter chat. Such salt, much chat wowz.

[RLVG]

I can confirm that Frog is Confirmed Town.

[Frog]

I can confirm that Frog is Confirmed Town.

Either that or I lied about being reporter. I won't confirm myself via reporter chat. YOU BE THE JUDGE.

But as I've always said. I am everyone's top town read.

[RLVG]

Either that or I lied about being reporter.

Bitch senpai plz.

[Frog]

Bitch senpai plz.

Lol. Yeah I don't want to fuck around. Pressured SJ into awesome development. Now we can concentrate on either pursuing banker or thieves. I think DarknessB and/or GameFreak is a good start. Darkness gets the nod for now.

I don't really know what else to contribute at this point.

[SuperJack]

Bitch senpai plz.

Who with the report chat?

[RLVG]

Who with the report chat?

Guess why I'm so salty lol.

[SuperJack]

Guess why I'm so salty lol.

I don't care. I want to know.

[RLVG]

I don't care. I want to know.

Modkilled.

[GameFreak]

I aksed this too , who is he in chat with ? First i thought Noctiz for good jokes but now i don't know.

[Frog]

I'm going to approach this from a strictly Game Theory point of view.

We have the players, we have the positions, now we need to measure the payoffs depending on the lynch.

Titus and Toadette began weighing the payoffs for one particular position, but failed to analyze the payoffs for other positions entirely.

To be clear, there are many positions, but we can limit it to:

Lynch Corrupt Cop
Lynch Thief
Lynch Banker
Lynch Non-Town

I'm going to work this through this and rewatch a Game Theory lesson. Be back in ±1 hour.

[Frog]

Who with the report chat?

RLVG. DO NOT REVEAL THIS.

[RLVG]

NoctiZ is the partner I was joined up with on the reporter chat. Frog knows the salt because he's seeing it.

When I got the chat, I was like "Wow, I'm someone special!", then later on he's modkilled. Yay.

[RLVG]

RLVG. DO NOT REVEAL THIS.

Nah, I'll do it anyway.

[Frog]

Nah, I'll do it anyway.

I'm not confirming myself as a reporter. I'm confirming myself as town.

[GameFreak]

Oh so i was right. Cool

[RLVG]

I'm not confirming myself as a reporter. I'm confirming myself as town.

You haven't even said the Password yet.

[RLVG]

But oh well, unless there's a reporter to counterclaim, I have no reason to doubt Frog.

[Frog]

But oh well, unless there's a reporter to counterclaim, I have no reason to doubt Frog.

I want enough confirmation to be held respectable in day chat, but no enough confirmation to be killed at night. I won't confirm anymore than I already have.

[Titus]

@Frog,

I'm rather annoyed that you said I "failed to analyze other payoffs"

SJ and Fire are aligned.
We get a lynch of non-town and given the amount of fake guilty bullshit, probably thief. Either way, we make it impossible for banker to win with them and limit disaster even if they aren't thieves.

Any other read has the risk of being wrong.

You're not looking at risk.

I see highest likelihood of thieves. No risk of lynching town.

I am done with the case of the stupids this town has.

Lynch Darkness. Come crying back to me when Darkness flips town. To much stupid surrounding Darkness to have Darkness be anything but town.

[GameFreak]

@ Titus , you still fail to see town is not in the majority right now.
And if you believe Fire will work with us after lynching SJ, then you don't understand Fire.

[Titus]

@ Titus , you still fail to see town is not in the majority right now.
And if you believe Fire will work with us after lynching SJ, then you don't understand Fire.

Fire has to if we lynch SJ. It's the only way he could win if he's telling the truth. There's no way Fire could get 8 fucking coins on his own. It's not something where he has a choice in the matter.

Town doesn't have majority, but we get there by being a unified force forcing the neutrals and scum to try and lynch each other. This is a plurality lynch, not a majority lynch.

[Frog]

@Frog,

I'm rather annoyed that you said I "failed to analyze other payoffs"

SJ and Fire are aligned.
We get a lynch of non-town and given the amount of fake guilty bullshit, probably thief. Either way, we make it impossible for banker to win with them and limit disaster even if they aren't thieves.

Any other read has the risk of being wrong.

You're not looking at risk.

I see highest likelihood of thieves. No risk of lynching town.

I am done with the case of the stupids this town has.

Lynch Darkness. Come crying back to me when Darkness flips town. To much stupid surrounding Darkness to have Darkness be anything but town.

Ok. You've basically said:
1) Lynching a known non-town strictly dominates the risk of lynching a town
Or more precisely
2) Lynching a corrupt police strictly dominates the risk of lynching a town

And you've played it out with the assumption that Noctiz is both town, thief, and non-town?

That is still only one very small scenario.

I would still hold that:
Lynching a Non-Town strictly dominates lynching a Town

So we have some agreement

But I still want to play out the different scenarios and lay them out more clearly so everyone can understand ALL of the risks (especially based on Noctiz flip and town concentration going forward. Particularly Town voting power D3+)

[GameFreak]

The cops are willing to cooperate , then we should ask SJ what he did.
If SJ is sentry that means he also blocked somebody, you should realise that Roleblocks are given as feedback, but nobody claimed being RBed. So chances are high he rbed a killer.
But i don't think he is a sentry, notice how he said Fire was "Const, Traffic or Sentry" he gave 3 roles. Now maybe SJ completely tricked me here
but Sentry is the only role that only gets to see 2 roles for their partner. So if Fire is TW then SJ would be a constable.
Or SJ played me.

Besides Fire thinking Noc was scum isn't such a farfetched claim. For all we know Toad/Damus is an escort and blocked their kill.

You have to remember Damus said he was going to stay at home. That means he doesn't find his night actions worthwhile enough.
Only a few roles can do that, think Student or Doctor would not want to do anything N1, maybe he healed Noctiz from Toadette.
Ofcourse this is getting into serious guessing territory so its unlikely.

[GameFreak]

@titus the last 2 games Fire threw a hissy fit when things didn't go his way. He will fuck us over.
Mark my words on that.

[GameFreak]

Also waiting for Frogs D2 ISO

[Frog]

Also, I happen to disagree with your assessment.

I'd say lynching a known non-town weakly dominates the risk of lynching a town.
(with reference to corrupt police in this scenario)

Which is to say, there exist more situations that are more beneficial to town.

[RLVG]

The cops are willing to cooperate , then we should ask SJ what he did.
If SJ is sentry that means he also blocked somebody, you should realise that Roleblocks are given as feedback, but nobody claimed being RBed. So chances are high he rbed a killer.
But i don't think he is a sentry, notice how he said Fire was "Const, Traffic or Sentry" he gave 3 roles. Now maybe SJ completely tricked me here
but Sentry is the only role that only gets to see 2 roles for their partner. So if Fire is TW then SJ would be a constable.
Or SJ played me.

Besides Fire thinking Noc was scum isn't such a farfetched claim. For all we know Toad/Damus is an escort and blocked their kill.

You have to remember Damus said he was going to stay at home. That means he doesn't find his night actions worthwhile enough.
Only a few roles can do that, think Student or Doctor would not want to do anything N1, maybe he healed Noctiz from Toadette.
Ofcourse this is getting into serious guessing territory so its unlikely.

How do we know he's not lying and was merely guessing?

For the Corrupt Police, what roles corespond to what letter? For example, think of either A, B, C role while another is Y or Z role, what are these letters to what role?

[GameFreak]

We don't, but if you put yourself out there against a town, lying is one of the worst things you can do.
Because once you get caught you will die.

Also i doubt the letters hold value.

[Sen]

Sen, RLVG, GameFreak, SJ, FB

We vote DarknessB, K?
You say either TDL or Titus is the Banker. What makes DarknessB a better target?
Anyway. Noone seems to want to kill Titus, which makes me sad, but that can be solved later without much effort, so I could compromise on some other lynch, since I won't be able to participate much during the second part of this day.


Did you just claim banker?
Nah, just Wanker.
Nein.

[TheDarkestLight]

I agree. But not because I agree with Titus' logic.

Titus claimed receiving a banker coin, as did TDL.

The odds of one of them being a banker is high IMO with a lean to TDL for claiming second.


My coin was stolen. ):

Anyways, I think FB is bullshit on his claim on Noctiz. I thought he was scum yesterday and this isn't helping him go green in my eyes.

Firebringer

To help encourage him to hard claim.

I never said I got a coin. Jesus you guys are blind.

[Frog]

I never said I got a coin. Jesus you guys are blind.

My bad. I thought I read a second person received a coin.

[GameFreak]

I wonder if Frog believes RLVG roleclaim

[Sen]

So, we have Frog, SuperJack and Firebringer as pretty much confirmed townies. That's 3/7.
If NoctiZ flips scum, we're gonna have a fieldtrip with this game.

[Frog]

You say either TDL or Titus is the Banker. What makes DarknessB a better target?
Anyway. Noone seems to want to kill Titus, which makes me sad, but that can be solved later without much effort, so I could compromise on some other lynch, since I won't be able to participate much during the second part of this day.


Nah, just Wanker.
Nein.

I misread. I thought TDL was the second person to say he received a coin. The basis for my Titus-TDL banker thought process revolved around that. Now that it's gone I don't think we'll have that opportunity again. :-/

DarknessB is a better lynch candidate for various reasons. I find SJ explained it best as it mirrored a lot of my views.

It's a combination of:
-Overly agreeable with everyone
-Very low post count and content
-His only scum reads are slight and never pursues into scumhunting
-Lack of any voting D1
-Reasons to vote the known corrupt police today

It's a very bad wrap. I find nothing pro-town about it.

[GameFreak]

I'd also laugh if the hooker Rbed his mate

[RLVG]

I wonder if Frog believes RLVG roleclaim

You like to cast doubt, but not really bring a giant case about anything. It kinda gives the fencesit feel.

On the other hand, maybe a different avatar...

[Titus]

Frog,

You're supposing Fire and SJ are telling the truth despite fabricating a guilty on Notty. Why?

I'm at 3) Lynching a thief or the risk of a corrupt cop strictly dominates the risk of lynching town.

The analysis doesn't even include Notty's alignment. It's a tangential thing. Notty's alignment is irrelevant to their claim. They claimed not town. Their lack of luck or luck regarding Notty is irrelevant.

We can start with Fire being corrupt cop because that's what y'all believe. All scenarios suppose worst case town will be nightkilled

Scenario 1: Fire is corrupt cop, Notty was town, SJ lynched, town will be nightkilled = 2 thieves, 1 corrupt cop, 1 banker, 2 hidden neutrals, 4 town [Town Vote power = 4+1] [Anti-town vote power = Thieves plus banker plus neuts = 5]
Scenario 2: Fire is thief, Notty was town, SJ lynched (as thief bc he and Fire share alignment most likely), town will be nightkilled = 1 thief, 2 corrupt cops, 1 banker, 2 hidden neutrals, 4 town [Town Vote Power 6 to Scum 4]
Scenario 3: Fire is corrupt cop, Notty was thief, SJ lynched, town will be nightkilled = 1 thief, 1 corrupt cop, 1 banker, 2 hidden neutrals, 5 town [6 to 4]
Scenario 4 (admittedly ridiculous but we're covering all bases): Fire is thief, Notty was thief, SJ lynched, town will be nightkilled = 1 thief [Fire], ? Corrupt cops but probably 2 {SJ has to be fakeclaiming here and he and Fire aren't aligned so...}, 1 banker, 2 hidden neutrals, 5 town... I think [Unknown but very remote scenario]
Scenario 5: Fire is corrupt cop, Notty is neutral or banker, SJ lynched, town will be nightkilled = 2 thieves, 1 corrupt cop, 2 total bankers and neutrals, 5 town [ 6 to 4]
Scneario 6: Fire is thief, Notty is NoB, SJ lynched, town will be NKed = 1 thief, 2 corrupt cops, 2 total NoBs, 5 town [5 versus 5 if Notty wasn't banker] [7 to 3 if Notty was banker]

Your point? What's the point of that exercise?

Town still holds plurality or plurality tie in every scenario. No lynch goes through without town approval, even if I'm a total idiot on a count or two.

We hold plurality, we keep lynching claimed not town. We hit thieves and force the rest to work with us.

[GameFreak]

i'll be back in an hour

[TheDarkestLight]

And once again peoples towns and scum reads seem absurd to me. They would lynch Darkness over Damus, and apparently somehow everyone knows Damus' role. Did he claim or soft or some shit, because I really can't see anything from him. His contribution has been poor and he only contributes shortly after people actually call him out oddly enough. Honestly, I'm reading him as scum/neutral.

Darkness does have potential to be scum tho imo, however tbh I find him more neutral leaning.

[GameFreak]

You like to cast doubt, but not really bring a giant case about anything. It kinda gives the fencesit feel.

On the other hand, maybe a different avatar...

I was asking if you claimed to him in a roundabout way, and no they are my favorite animal ! supercute tbh.

[Sen]

DarknessB is a better lynch candidate for various reasons. I find SJ explained it best as it mirrored a lot of my views.
I don't have a problem with that lynch. His attitude -as it's been pointed out- is anti-town, and his only "defence" seems to be that he's busy IRL, yet he was here yesterday for some hours and never addressed anything other that the policy lynch.

That said, we all know Titus isn't braindead enough to actually consider lynching a claimed Cop a valid, let alone a good strategy for this scenario. That paired with her previous chill and amicable attitude, along with the sheeping makes me think she isn't Town.

I'll vote DarknessB if it's needed, but for now my vote stays.

[Titus]

I misread. I thought TDL was the second person to say he received a coin. The basis for my Titus-TDL banker thought process revolved around that. Now that it's gone I don't think we'll have that opportunity again. :-/

DarknessB is a better lynch candidate for various reasons. I find SJ explained it best as it mirrored a lot of my views.

It's a combination of:
-Overly agreeable with everyone
-Very low post count and content
-His only scum reads are slight and never pursues into scumhunting
-Lack of any voting D1
-Reasons to vote the known corrupt police today

It's a very bad wrap. I find nothing pro-town about it.

I don't see Darkness as overly agreeable with everyone. I see that slot as smart and actually taking the smart play and standing up to you.
Low post count alone isn't indicative. I also don't see low content. There's low content that people agree with.
This is a conclusion and circular.
Town love to troll my VCA by not voting. It's annoying as fuck, but usually town. Scum have done that too though.
Corrupt Police (even if honest, which I doubt) are still a good lynch

I find nothing protown about Fire, Sen and SJ.

[Titus]

I don't have a problem with that lynch. His attitude -as it's been pointed out- is anti-town, and his only "defence" seems to be that he's busy IRL, yet he was here yesterday for some hours and never addressed anything other that the policy lynch.

That said, we all know Titus isn't braindead enough to actually consider lynching a claimed Cop a valid, let alone a good strategy for this scenario. That paired with her previous chill and amicable attitude, along with the sheeping makes me think she isn't Town.

I'll vote DarknessB if it's needed, but for now my vote stays.

Yeah, I said I'd be chill as long as the town wasn't stupid.
Town started being stupid.
I stopped being chill.
Funny how that works.

[RLVG]

I was asking if you claimed to him in a roundabout way, and no they are my favorite animal ! supercute tbh.

Well, I see no reason to not claim my role to a confirmed town.

[Sen]

Yeah, I said I'd be chill as long as the town wasn't stupid.
Town started being stupid.
I stopped being chill.
Funny how that works.
You are being chill:
A) You think I'm the Banker.
B) You aren't voting me.
C) If you got rid of the Banker and you were Town, the Cops would be forced to play in your favour.

There's not a single valid reason to want to keep the Banker alive if you're so sure of their identity, yet you choose to throw a weak as fuck accussation and then proceed to ignore it altogether. You didn't stop being chill, because you don't want to drag yet more attention.

[Frog]

I don't see Darkness as overly agreeable with everyone. I see that slot as smart and actually taking the smart play and standing up to you.
Low post count alone isn't indicative. I also don't see low content. There's low content that people agree with.
This is a conclusion and circular.
Town love to troll my VCA by not voting. It's annoying as fuck, but usually town. Scum have done that too though.
Corrupt Police (even if honest, which I doubt) are still a good lynch

I find nothing protown about Fire, Sen and SJ.

Weird POV.

Reading your other post atm.

[Titus]

You are being chill:
A) You think I'm the Banker.
B) You aren't voting me.
C) If you got rid of the Banker and you were Town, the Cops would be forced to play in your favour.

There's not a single valid reason to want to keep the Banker alive if you're so sure of their identity, yet you choose to throw a weak as fuck accussation and then proceed to ignore it altogether. You didn't stop being chill, because you don't want to drag yet more attention.

Yup. I do. I could be wrong, considering only Frog has entertained the possibility I am right there. Lynching SJ gets us a possible thief and removes an anti-town backstabbing me while the possibility of me being wrong.

You've been doubtcasting and pointlessly throwing shit all damn day when I had the solid reasons for SJ being the better lynch. The whole Titus is afraid thing was particularly golden. LMFAO.

[Titus]

Weird POV.

Reading your other post atm.

Don't see where you find that wierd. I think Darkness is town. Town love to troll my VCA by not voting. I can provide samples if you care.

[Sen]

Yup. I do. I could be wrong, considering only Frog has entertained the possibility I am right there. Lynching SJ gets us a possible thief and removes an anti-town backstabbing me while the possibility of me being wrong.

You've been doubtcasting and pointlessly throwing shit all damn day when I had the solid reasons for SJ being the better lynch. The whole Titus is afraid thing was particularly golden. LMFAO.

It's alright to be afraid when I'm targeting you.

You said only the Cops and the Banker would want to keep the Cops alive. That was your argument for saying I'm the Banker. Now you say you could be wrong, meaning that your previous statement was bullshit.

Also gotta love how you fear they would "backstab me", and not "backstab us".

[GameFreak]

I can't recall the post but Damus said he had banker and thief on him. Or was that a troll ? im going to find it.

[Titus]

It's alright to be afraid when I'm targeting you.

You said only the Cops and the Banker would want to keep the Cops alive. That was your argument for saying I'm the Banker. Now you say you could be wrong, meaning that your previous statement was bullshit.

Also gotta love how you fear they would "backstab me", and not "backstab us".

Right, because I'm the clear town leader. You're the clear not working in town's interests.

If you knew anything about how I play, I'm afraid of no one. Ever.

I love how you pick on semantics when you know you've been dealt the losing hand.

[Titus]

Oh and humility isn't bullshit Sen.

[Sen]

Right, because I'm the clear town leader. You're the clear not working in town's interests.

If you knew anything about how I play, I'm afraid of no one. Ever.

I love how you pick on semantics when you know you've been dealt the losing hand.
It's not semantics; it clearly depicts that you're either not-Town or you don't care of anything but yourself. Both anti-town positions.

And don't bitch about semantics when from all the things in my post you decided to use the chill attitude part for a rebuttal.

You are afraid, and you should. Denying it won't change a thing.

I can't recall the post but Damus said he had banker and thief on him. Or was that a troll ? im going to find it.
I'm the Bankier Thief. Easier to get away with it when it's an inside job.

[Sen]

Oh and humility isn't bullshit Sen.
Yeah, because we all know Titus is humble. Sorry, mate, you got a shitty rolecard this round. Appeals to emotion won't work here.

[Titus]

Yup, total semantics.

I'm rally against the rest of town being stupid because I clearly don't care what town thinks. You're trying to cherry pick certain phrases because Frog hinted that argument may work rather than defending your position that lynching anyone but SJ is good. You are defending anti-town. Corrupt cops are really helpful to Bankers. Thus, you have a higher likelihood of being banker.

*pats you* I'm not afraid of anyone. Ever. When you get out of this I'm a special scummy snowflake that I can scare Town Titus, your play will improve dramatically.

[Frog]

Frog,

You're supposing Fire and SJ are telling the truth despite fabricating a guilty on Notty. Why?

I'm at 3) Lynching a thief or the risk of a corrupt cop strictly dominates the risk of lynching town.

The analysis doesn't even include Notty's alignment. It's a tangential thing. Notty's alignment is irrelevant to their claim. They claimed not town. Their lack of luck or luck regarding Notty is irrelevant.

We can start with Fire being corrupt cop because that's what y'all believe. All scenarios suppose worst case town will be nightkilled

Scenario 1: Fire is corrupt cop, Notty was town, SJ lynched, town will be nightkilled = 2 thieves, 1 corrupt cop, 1 banker, 2 hidden neutrals, 4 town [Town Vote power = 4+1] [Anti-town vote power = Thieves plus banker plus neuts = 5]
Scenario 2: Fire is thief, Notty was town, SJ lynched (as thief bc he and Fire share alignment most likely), town will be nightkilled = 1 thief, 2 corrupt cops, 1 banker, 2 hidden neutrals, 4 town [Town Vote Power 6 to Scum 4]
Scenario 3: Fire is corrupt cop, Notty was thief, SJ lynched, town will be nightkilled = 1 thief, 1 corrupt cop, 1 banker, 2 hidden neutrals, 5 town [6 to 4]
Scenario 4 (admittedly ridiculous but we're covering all bases): Fire is thief, Notty was thief, SJ lynched, town will be nightkilled = 1 thief [Fire], ? Corrupt cops but probably 2 {SJ has to be fakeclaiming here and he and Fire aren't aligned so...}, 1 banker, 2 hidden neutrals, 5 town... I think [Unknown but very remote scenario]
Scenario 5: Fire is corrupt cop, Notty is neutral or banker, SJ lynched, town will be nightkilled = 2 thieves, 1 corrupt cop, 2 total bankers and neutrals, 5 town [ 6 to 4]
Scneario 6: Fire is thief, Notty is NoB, SJ lynched, town will be NKed = 1 thief, 2 corrupt cops, 2 total NoBs, 5 town [5 versus 5 if Notty wasn't banker] [7 to 3 if Notty was banker]

Your point? What's the point of that exercise?

Town still holds plurality or plurality tie in every scenario. No lynch goes through without town approval, even if I'm a total idiot on a count or two.

We hold plurality, we keep lynching claimed not town. We hit thieves and force the rest to work with us.

Are you counter claiming corrupt cop? If so, please be explicit.

Agreed about the Fire - Noctiz thing. I'm still waiting on his reasoning for targets. I'm having trouble accepting that all he's going to explain is: I'm traffic warden and this was my action because Toadette or Damus HAD to be a killer. I requested more on that from Fire previously but perhaps it was lost. It was in big yellow letters.

The main point is that they're outted Corrupt Cops without counter claims and that's enough for me.

Scenario 1 sucks so much, especially considering I don't see Fire NOT being corrupt cop.
Scenario 2 is not believable
Scenario 3 is possible, but based on reads I don't anticipate Noctiz flipping Thief
Scenario 4 is lol
Scenario 5 is most likely
Scenario 6 is not believable

My point is to repeat this exercise for lynches outside of the corrupt cops to measure the benefits, which I'm currently doing.

I understand your bottom line of minimizing risk, however I feel we're in a position where we can afford to risk, whereas all of your scenarios going forward that are likely or believable have very little ability to bounce back from a mislynch thereafter.

I think we can count on the corrupt cops to side with town tomorrow, so treat your current scenarios of lynching a corrupt cop with lynching a town. There, now we have TWO days where we can pinpoint an ACTUAL THIEF. This way you can apply your VCA (see how I made it interesting for you?) and figure out Thieves voting behavior WHEN they flip. I'm confident after 2 lynches we will get at least one thief.

[SuperJack]

You are using corrupt cops as an excuse to not Scum hunt.

Plane and simple. We would be counter claimed if we where lying.

[Sen]

Yup, total semantics.

I'm rally against the rest of town being stupid because I clearly don't care what town thinks. You're trying to cherry pick certain phrases because Frog hinted that argument may work rather than defending your position that lynching anyone but SJ is good. You are defending anti-town. Corrupt cops are really helpful to Bankers. Thus, you have a higher likelihood of being banker.
Cops aren't anti-town. You are anti-town. Get your definitions right.
And again, if I'm the Banker, then fucking make a case and lynch me.


*pats you* I'm not afraid of anyone. Ever. When you get out of this I'm a special scummy snowflake that I can scare Town Titus, your play will improve dramatically.
Yeah, hopefully. I mean, I've won every single game I've been against you, but yup, improvement never ends. (:

[RLVG]

So, can I bring up the fact that we don't know who the two other neutrals are?
If one is the Attention Seeker (Jester), one is trying to get lynched.
If one is Lost Customer, it means they have a leader that they're following.

The LC can be really subtle about something, say, an alliance of corrupt cops.

[Titus]

I don't believe we can count on Fire and SJ siding with town. I just don't.

They wouldn't be balanced without the detainer who goes and steals a bunch of coins. They steal coins. Banker pumps them. They win. That's how it works.


I'm not counter claiming anything.

I don't expect the real corrupt cops to counterclaim though. They gain nothing by doing so if they exist. Fire and SJ are aligned and not town.

Given the stupidity of this, I don't feel confident about catching thieves. I just don't.

[Titus]

So, can I bring up the fact that we don't know who the two other neutrals are?
If one is the Attention Seeker (Jester), one is trying to get lynched.
If one is Lost Customer, it means they have a leader that they're following.

The LC can be really subtle about something, say, an alliance of corrupt cops.

If a Lost Customer had remembered a corrupt cop, would the lost customer's coins be counted towards the corrupt cops win condition?

[Sen]

I don't expect the real corrupt cops to counterclaim though. They gain nothing by doing so if they exist. Fire and SJ are aligned and not town.
Yeah, they would gain nothing besides exposing two scum players on d2, giving them a sure win before long.

[Frog]

I don't have a problem with that lynch. His attitude -as it's been pointed out- is anti-town, and his only "defence" seems to be that he's busy IRL, yet he was here yesterday for some hours and never addressed anything other that the policy lynch.

That said, we all know Titus isn't braindead enough to actually consider lynching a claimed Cop a valid, let alone a good strategy for this scenario. That paired with her previous chill and amicable attitude, along with the sheeping makes me think she isn't Town.

I'll vote DarknessB if it's needed, but for now my vote stays.

I share your opinion that if we can't use these days to scum hunt, we're doing it wrong.

If we lynch a corrupt cop, we're wasting a day's lynch 'playing it safe' but with very minimal, if no reward.

[Titus]

You are using corrupt cops as an excuse to not Scum hunt.

Plane and simple. We would be counter claimed if we where lying.

No you wouldn't. I don't believe that. That would result in lynching within the four of you which wouldn't benefit the corrupt cops and takes a win condition off the table when there's jesters at play.

I also don't believe you have any intention of siding with town regardless. Faking guilties really doesn't show that you have town's interests at heart.

[Titus]

I share your opinion that if we can't use these days to scum hunt, we're doing it wrong.

If we lynch a corrupt cop, we're wasting a day's lynch 'playing it safe' but with very minimal, if no reward.

My god, you really don't get it do you.

Corrupt cops are scum without a kill.

[Frog]

Well, I see no reason to not claim my role to a confirmed town.

100% Keep it entirely in reporter chat

[Titus]

I just want to start angry ranting.

I'm getting in the place where I'm not going to be receptive to anything anyone else says.

Peace out.

Bai.

[RLVG]

100% Keep it entirely in reporter chat

I see no reason to claim my role to the public yet.

Oh wait.

I'm actually Arsonist Illuminati Potato. /S

[GameFreak]

My god, you really don't get it do you.

Corrupt cops are scum without a kill.

Win rules say somethign else

[RLVG]

I just want to start angry ranting.

I'm getting in the place where I'm not going to be receptive to anything anyone else says.

Peace out.

Bai.

Getting salty? Perhaps you should be a little more... aggro then.

[TheDarkestLight]

I don't believe we can count on Fire and SJ siding with town. I just don't.

They wouldn't be balanced without the detainer who goes and steals a bunch of coins. They steal coins. Banker pumps them. They win. That's how it works.


I'm not counter claiming anything.

I don't expect the real corrupt cops to counterclaim though. They gain nothing by doing so if they exist. Fire and SJ are aligned and not town.

Given the stupidity of this, I don't feel confident about catching thieves. I just don't.

I fail to see how Firebringer and Superjack aren't what they say they are. If they are lying the real Cops would have claimed and they would be fucked, and despite what you think they really can gain by counterclaiming since two scum get killed. The cops are revealed and literally the thieves can just target them numerous times in order to stop them from gaining anything. Lynching the cops is a horrid play imo. I don't see any scenario in which we benefit as the cops are pretty much forced to side with the town.

[Sen]

Thieves: Can win with coins or without them. Have a factional kill and anti-town abilities.
Banker: His death would force the Cops and the Town into a single faction.
Cops: Can win against the town only if they get 8 coins. Have scumhunting abilities. Are confirmed roles.

Common sense: Let's get rid of the Thieves or the Banker.
Titus: Let's kill the confirmed, currently non anti-town aligned roles!

[Titus]

Win rules say somethign else

No. The win rules say they can win without us. They are scum pursing that until proven otherwise.

[Frog]

You are being chill:
A) You think I'm the Banker.
B) You aren't voting me.
C) If you got rid of the Banker and you were Town, the Cops would be forced to play in your favour.

There's not a single valid reason to want to keep the Banker alive if you're so sure of their identity, yet you choose to throw a weak as fuck accussation and then proceed to ignore it altogether. You didn't stop being chill, because you don't want to drag yet more attention.

I know this is another example of semantics, but it sounds like you're softing banker again by daring Titus.

I don't know if you're doing this to challenge and push Titus into actual scum hunting, or if you're looking for night protection from thieves. It sounds like both.

I realize I asked you about this very kind of phrasing before. So this is what's happening. You and Titus are running in circles. Stop it. Bring something new.

[RLVG]

No. The win rules say they can win without us. They are scum pursing that until proven otherwise.

Every house has knives.

This means that everyone has the potential to be a serial murder using the knives of each house.
Or they can be good chefs.

Worst case scenario, the chef pasta way.

[Sen]

I know this is another example of semantics, but it sounds like you're softing banker again by daring Titus.

I don't know if you're doing this to challenge and push Titus into actual scum hunting, or if you're looking for night protection from thieves. It sounds like both.

I realize I asked you about this very kind of phrasing before. So this is what's happening. You and Titus are running in circles. Stop it. Bring something new.
Maybe I'm the Banker, or I want to appear like such, luring all greedies towards me and giving them nothing, or maybe I'm trying to not get night killed, or maybe I am myself a town killing role and am trying to deflect attention, or maybe an useless role and am trying to get killed, or...

I'll probably roleclaim tomorrow. I think by then we should have enough to figure out the whole game.

[Sen]

No. The win rules say they can win without us. They are scum pursing that until proven otherwise.
"Guilty until proven innocent". -the Lawyer.

TIL Titus works for the "Democratic" "People"'s "Republic" of Korea.

[RLVG]

"Guilty until proven innocent". -the Lawyer.

TIL Titus works for the "Democratic" "People"'s "Republic" of Korea.

Or Kongo.

[GameFreak]

No. The win rules say they can win without us. They are scum pursing that until proven otherwise.

I heard flying around you were a lawyer, this is hilarious

[RLVG]

I'd like to put on the tinfoil hat and say that we still don't know the two neutrals that isn't the original banker.
Could be Titus.

[Frog]

It's alright to be afraid when I'm targeting you.

You said only the Cops and the Banker would want to keep the Cops alive. That was your argument for saying I'm the Banker. Now you say you could be wrong, meaning that your previous statement was bullshit.

Also gotta love how you fear they would "backstab me", and not "backstab us".

It's a valid argument that banker and cops would want to keep cops alive.

However it's not out of the question that Town would want to focus on scum hunting rather than pursuing a cop lynch today. Which is why I find THIS argument flawed.

Your (Sen's) phrasing regarding Banker is what sounded off via Titus' pressure.

Sen has a habbit of pigeonholing which I've noticed yesterday, I'm wondering if it's going to remain on Titus all day.

[Frog]

I can't recall the post but Damus said he had banker and thief on him. Or was that a troll ? im going to find it.

Please find it. I may have confused TDL with Damus.

[Sen]

It's a valid argument that banker and cops would want to keep cops alive.

However it's not out of the question that Town would want to focus on scum hunting rather than pursuing a cop lynch today. Which is why I find THIS argument flawed.

Your (Sen's) phrasing regarding Banker is what sounded off via Titus' pressure.

Sen has a habbit of pigeonholing which I've noticed yesterday, I'm wondering if it's going to remain on Titus all day.
Yesterday you were sure I was a Neutral Killing, but sure, now I'm the Banker, then. Lynch me.

And no, I will be leaving in some 3 hours and won't be back until tnight, probably wasted, then will be asleep until maybe day 3. You won't get much from me today. I just wanted to use this little time to expose what I've been saying about her making no sense, and I dare anyone to prove me otherway after her newest replies.

[RLVG]

Please find it. I may have confused TDL with Damus.

He said something about having high amount of attention during the night.

[Titus]

It's a valid argument that banker and cops would want to keep cops alive.

However it's not out of the question that Town would want to focus on scum hunting rather than pursuing a cop lynch today. Which is why I find THIS argument flawed.

Your (Sen's) phrasing regarding Banker is what sounded off via Titus' pressure.

Sen has a habbit of pigeonholing which I've noticed yesterday, I'm wondering if it's going to remain on Titus all day.

Ok, seriously, why do you keep thinking Cops aren't scum here? They are.

@GameFreak, the game isn't a court of law. We don't have to have proof beyond a reasonable doubt to lynch anyone. If I went through and struck every post that would be inadmissible in a court of law, we wouldn't have much of a thread.

[Titus]

Yesterday you were sure I was a Neutral Killing, but sure, now I'm the Banker, then. Lynch me.

And no, I will be leaving in some 3 hours and won't be back until tnight, probably wasted, then will be asleep until maybe day 3. You won't get much from me today. I just wanted to use this little time to expose what I've been saying about her making no sense, and I dare anyone to prove me otherway after her newest replies.

So your goal is to protect SJ and Fire and discredit me rather than lynching scum.

Good to know.

[Sen]

So your goal is to protect SJ and Fire and discredit me rather than lynching scum.

Good to know.
You are scum.

[GameFreak]

@ Titus, i wouldn't doubt it, but we can all have a laugh about it.

[SuperJack]

No detainer or bailiff feedback: we are not greed players.
No counter claims: we are not lying Scum.
Our play so far: pro-town. [Scum hunting, lynch baiting, early reveal to focus on Scum hunting]

[Sen]

Just went through my notes. Titus cannot be a Thief. Likely Neutral Scum.
Hm.

[SuperJack]

Even if you leave it too pure maths.

Lynching someone other than Me, Frog and Fire results in either 50% chance of Scum lynch or a 62.5% of Scum lynch.

Add this to the fact that we have the ability to Scum hunt and other feedback. We can easily lynch scum today.

[Frog]

Even if you leave it too pure maths.

Lynching someone other than Me, Frog and Fire results in either 50% chance of Scum lynch or a 62.5% of Scum lynch.

Add this to the fact that we have the ability to Scum hunt and other feedback. We can easily lynch scum today.

I'm pretty sure if my reads are correct, the odds are even better at random.

But we're not even lynching at random. We're focusing on scummy players.

[SuperJack]

I'm pretty sure if my reads are correct, the odds are even better at random.

But we're not even lynching at random. We're focusing on scummy players.

Yeh that's why I included the last part.

[Frog]

Yeh that's why I included the last part.

It's almost irrelevant at this point, but I'd still like your snuggle buddy Fire to explain his targets for his action more than he already has.

SuperJack - how sure are you of DarknessB!Scum ?

[Sen]

I think a mass roleclaim is in order for tomorrow.

[Frog]

I think a mass roleclaim is in order for tomorrow.

Sure.

I'll claim early. I'm Town. :-)

How I didn't die yesterday is beyond me.

[Sen]

Sure.

I'll claim early. I'm Town. :-)

How I didn't die yesterday is beyond me.

Why do you think RLVG is Town? Besides the Reporter chat, you had him earlier in your suggested voting block.
Same for GameFreak, he was there in the block, and although I'm have him barely on my green side, I haven't seen much which deserves a strong Town read for him.

[GameFreak]

I can claim right now and be comfirmed but i'd rather not.

[Sen]

I can claim right now and be comfirmed but i'd rather not.
I like this. (:

The same goes for me.
This game is going perfectly. I like.

[Calix]

At what point during the OoO does the scum's factional kill take place if not conducted by a Sociopath?

Same place as Sociopath, Retired Officer and Neutral Killing.


If Identity Thief is lynched D1, do they flip as their target?

No. A player's night actions are cancelled if they are lynched.


Does Traffic Warden force players to use action?

Yes.


1. Does traffic warden affect factional kills?
2. Does traffic warden force factional kills?
I already asked this as well:
3. Does traffic warden force night actions even if players don't submit?
4. Does traffic warden force players to visit others if they don't have the ability to visit?

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Yes.


Calix, in fire's scenario, wouldn't he receive the following feedback messages?
You received interest from the bank = Given a coin
You wake up to find that your wallet has gone missing = Coin stolen

Yes, that is the feedback aligned with a coin being given/ stolen from a player.


Are neut killers attack immune?

No.


For the Corrupt Police, what roles corespond to what letter? For example, think of either A, B, C role while another is Y or Z role, what are these letters to what role?

No correlation between letters and role, just host inconsistency.


If a Lost Customer had remembered a corrupt cop, would the lost customer's coins be counted towards the corrupt cops win condition?

Yes.

[RLVG]

This game is going perfectly. I like.

Except for the part that we don't know who scum is, accurately.

[Frog]

Why do you think RLVG is Town? Besides the Reporter chat, you had him earlier in your suggested voting block.
Same for GameFreak, he was there in the block, and although I'm have him barely on my green side, I haven't seen much which deserves a strong Town read for him.

I town read RLVG based on pressures he chose D1.
Most notably pressure on SJ. I had originally pegged him as corrupt cop. I'm sure I have more reasons.

GameFreak slides in and out of the block constantly. He's back in the Town. Because derp.

My reasons are so grand, amirite?

Sorry, I'll answer this better later. I'm watching some Yale courses on Econ 159 for funsies.

[Damus_Graves]

I attracts attention from the banker and a thief. I was robbed and given a coin

[Frog]

I like this. (:

The same goes for me.
This game is going perfectly. I like.


I can claim right now and be comfirmed but i'd rather not.

Derp Derpingtons. This was completely unneeded from both of you. I got it already.

[Damus_Graves]

darknessb

[Toadette]

NK aren't even attack immune

Good job Fire

[Damus_Graves]

Man frog. One day I'll be super pro like you.
Tell me something.
Does it seem like Titus doesn't want darkness to get lynched?

[Sen]

Except for the part that we don't know who scum is, accurately.
We have a few confirmed, and I might or not be able to confirm someone else. (:

Thief
Thief
Corrupt Police Officer - SuperJack
Corrupt Police Officer - Firebringer
Reporter - Frog
Customer - Me
Customer - ???
Customer - ThePaladin
Customer
Customer
Banker
Hidden Neutral
Hidden Neutral

If NoctiZ and DarknessB are scum, that's less chaos. If one or both are Customers, then we'll have all the Thieves and Neutrals peggged by tomorrow based on elimination.

Derp Derpingtons. This was completely unneeded from both of you. I got it already.
That's cool, I want the scum to try and kill me. Or not. (:


I town read RLVG based on pressures he chose D1.
Most notably pressure on SJ. I had originally pegged him as corrupt cop. I'm sure I have more reasons.

GameFreak slides in and out of the block constantly. He's back in the Town. Because derp.

My reasons are so grand, amirite?

Sorry, I'll answer this better later. I'm watching some Yale courses on Econ 159 for funsies.
Fair enough. I don't have them as super townies, but certainly on the green side, and I'm alright with DarknessB as a lynch, so that's cool for now. I think everything will be crystal clear by tomorrow.

[Frog]

I attracts attention from the banker and a thief. I was robbed and given a coin

Perfect, TY.

[Frog]

Man frog. One day I'll be super pro like you.
Tell me something.
Does it seem like Titus doesn't want darkness to get lynched?

Yes. It's not limited to Titus though. Toadette was backing strong.

So the flip will hopefully reveal exactly what you're suggesting.

[SuperJack]

It's almost irrelevant at this point, but I'd still like your snuggle buddy Fire to explain his targets for his action more than he already has.

SuperJack - how sure are you of DarknessB!Scum ?

My case on him.

[Frog]

Same place as Sociopath, Retired Officer and Neutral Killing.



No. A player's night actions are cancelled if they are lynched.



Yes.



1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Yes.



Yes, that is the feedback aligned with a coin being given/ stolen from a player.



No.



No correlation between letters and role, just host inconsistency.



Yes.

If a player starts with no coins and is given a coin, can it be stolen that same night?

Sorry for the tedious questions. This helped a lot.

[Calix]

If a player starts with no coins and is given a coin, can it be stolen that same night?

Yes. Coins can be given to X player and stolen from X player on the same night.

[SuperJack]

BTW don't be surprised if DarknessB comes back close to the end of the day, makes some wild claim and try to save his skin. Instead of making any contribution.

But then again. Now if he reads this post that might change.

[Sen]

I'm counting on a few trying to derail by the end of the day, likely using arguments they could've used by now -since everyone's been online at some point of this day-.

That said, obvscum is obvious, and the hand-picking of players for this game makes such plebeian tactics useless.

[Toadette]

DarknessB

Have some insurance then.

[SuperJack]

DarknessB

Have some insurance then.

I'm due to apologise to you. I'm planning an apology speech personally to you but will do it once the game ends.

[Titus]

I'm due to apologise to you. I'm planning an apology speech personally to you but will do it once the game ends.

That vote is scummy as shit.

You should apologize to Toadette for how you've treated him/her yesterday. Their play today is absolutely ridiculous and inconsistent. I'm not at all thrilled with them and they are shitting on my townread there.

But hey, you're all about encouraging anti-town play so hey.

[Toadette]

That vote is scummy as shit.

You should apologize to Toadette for how you've treated him/her yesterday. Their play today is absolutely ridiculous and inconsistent. I'm not at all thrilled with them and they are shitting on my townread there.

But hey, you're all about encouraging anti-town play so hey.

Yeah this vote on Darkness feels very similar to the vote on Paladin but I find myself caring less and less as this game goes on

[RLVG]

but I find myself caring less and less as this game goes on

That's volatile and contagious.

[Titus]

Yeah this vote on Darkness feels very similar to the vote on Paladin but I find myself caring less and less as this game goes on

Ok, that makes sense. I've felt that way a bit myself, but in the back of my mind I can't help but wonder if you're encouraging apathy rather than fight for the smarter solution. I have tried not to give up precisely because it encourages others to do so.

I'd expect you to at least be telling us who we should lynch even if resigned to the rest of the town being stupid.

So pretend like we have a shot at lynching scum, who are they?

[Frog]

That's a real shame. I'm really enjoying playing this game with you guys. I feel like the level of play is high. Great experience win or lose. (Although I prefer to win). After all, the game is for fun.

[Toadette]

That's volatile and contagious.

The level of play this game is very poor and it gets tiring pointing out why that is.

[Sen]

The only ones who should be pesimistic right now are the scum, since at this point only a Spree Killer killing half of the Town would give them a chance. Even if the Cops were to betray us late game, the scum would be gone long before.

[Frog]

That vote is scummy as shit.

You should apologize to Toadette for how you've treated him/her yesterday. Their play today is absolutely ridiculous and inconsistent. I'm not at all thrilled with them and they are shitting on my townread there.

But hey, you're all about encouraging anti-town play so hey.

Who do you feel is Thief/Banker/neutral on the vote on DarknessB?

[Toadette]

The only ones who should be pesimistic right now are the scum, since at this point only a Spree Killer killing half of the Town would give them a chance. Even if the Cops were to betray us late game, the scum would be gone long before.

That's a very simplistic view of human emotion.

[Frog]

Yeah this vote on Darkness feels very similar to the vote on Paladin but I find myself caring less and less as this game goes on

Same question goes to you Toadette.

Who on the train do you suspect?

[Sen]

That's a very simplistic view of human emotion.
It is, but we're not here to write a thesis on the subject, and it's fair to assume that pesimism is one of the logical reactions of a party with no chances of winning.

[Toadette]

Ok, that makes sense. I've felt that way a bit myself, but in the back of my mind I can't help but wonder if you're encouraging apathy rather than fight for the smarter solution. I have tried not to give up precisely because it encourages others to do so.

I'd expect you to at least be telling us who we should lynch even if resigned to the rest of the town being stupid.

So pretend like we have a shot at lynching scum, who are they?

I don't know. SuperJack and fire are neutral, frog is confirmed town. RLVG and/or Damus could very well be neutral but I don't see anything particularly scummy of Towny out of them. Given the private chat I have no choice but to trust Frogs judgement of RLVG

This train may not have scum on it but I feel the reasoning for the Darkness train is misguided and poor and don't have a lot of faith in darkness flipping scum

If I had to pick scum right now it would be GameFreak or Sen probably

GameFreak

[Toadette]

Same question goes to you Toadette.

Who on the train do you suspect?

See above