S-FM 179: Cop Out

[Damus_Graves]

TDL?

This game major misdirection and paranoica seems out of place.

[Firebringer]

Firebringer, I put you in the Reporter's chat for a reason, I'd rather not point out the obvious here.

Fire believes the reason is to kick back with Frog, and relax.

[Damus_Graves]

Nope TDL not a thief.

[Firebringer]

This game major misdirection and paranoica seems out of place.

All roles were randomized I believe.
But who knows, maybe it wasn't.
Calix is a liar!

[Damus_Graves]

Its GG after this.

[TheDarkestLight]

Nope TDL not a thief.

Yeah, Titus' partner is either Frog or GameFreak. Most likely Gamefreak though.

[Frog]

Wait RLVG, did you have a coin stolen from you?

[Frog]

Fire believes the reason is to kick back with Frog, and relax.

Let's figure it out in there.

[Firebringer]

Let's figure it out in there.

You got that sweet mary jane?

[Damus_Graves]

Two options:
Toadette = GG
Gamefreak - GG.

[Sen]

Fire believes the reason is to kick back with Frog, and relax.
Hm. Let's see, then.
This is a little something I was writing. Still unfinished.
Too. Much. Data.

- I got Baliff feedback last night.
A) Firebringer is a Baliff.
B) One of the Thieves is a Drug Dealer.

If A:
- SuperJack claims forcing GameFreak towards himself.
- RLVG claims giving a coin to SJ. We know he wasn't redirected, since Firebringer is a Baliff.
- If GameFreak were a faildoc, he wouldn't have killed SJ, since RLVG's coin would count as a visit.

Implying SJ didn't lie in his last will and that I wasn't drugged*:
1) GameFreak is a Thief.
2) RLVG is not a Banker, but a Thief, and GameFreak is not a Doctor.

If 1:
- One of the Thieves is a Sociopath, since there's no way for a double night kill with no Doctor and no Sociopath.

I really doubt my feedback to be the result of a DD, since Firebringer screwed up his d2's fake claim.

[RLVG]

Wait RLVG, did you have a coin stolen from you?

I have infinite coins.

Reporter N1.
No Feedback N2.

Short answer : No.

[Firebringer]

Hm. Let's see, then.
This is a little something I was writing. Still unfinished.
Too. Much. Data.

- I got Baliff feedback last night.
A) Firebringer is a Baliff.
B) One of the Thieves is a Drug Dealer.

If A:
- SuperJack claims forcing GameFreak towards himself.
- RLVG claims giving a coin to SJ. We know he wasn't redirected, since Firebringer is a Baliff.
- If GameFreak were a faildoc, he wouldn't have killed SJ, since RLVG's coin would count as a visit.

Implying SJ didn't lie in his last will and that I wasn't drugged*:
1) GameFreak is a Thief.
2) RLVG is not a Banker, but a Thief, and GameFreak is not a Doctor.

If 1:
- One of the Thieves is a Sociopath, since there's no way for a double night kill with no Doctor and no Sociopath.

I really doubt my feedback to be the result of a DD, since Firebringer screwed up his d2's fake claim.

Interesting, I am still not processing anything optimally, ill have to answer this later.

[Frog]

Trust me and target one of these three: TDL, Titus, Gamefreak.

I'm searching where SuperJack claimed who his targets were for Night 1.

Based on this post, combined with this last will:
"GameFreak - None -Thief or Banker
[]Basciallly as bad as Frog. Hence I am visiting him. If I die he might of killed me, If I live I will find out if he innocent or not."

I'm assuming that his last will was referencing his night 1 actions?

Calix, where is SuperJack's Night 1 Last will?

[Calix]

I'm searching where SuperJack claimed who his targets were for Night 1.

Based on this post, combined with this last will:
"GameFreak - None -Thief or Banker
[]Basciallly as bad as Frog. Hence I am visiting him. If I die he might of killed me, If I live I will find out if he innocent or not."

I'm assuming that his last will was referencing his night 1 actions?

Calix, where is SuperJack's Night 1 Last will?

You get one Last Will. I don't post all of the updates to it.

[Frog]

You get one Last Will. I don't post all of the updates to it.

F!@# YOU SUPERJACK! You could have confirmed someone or pegged scum. !@#$@!$!#@%#!%$

Absolutely no mention of roleblock though.

[TheDarkestLight]

F!@# YOU SUPERJACK! You could have confirmed someone or pegged scum. !@#$@!$!#@%#!%$

Absolutely no mention of roleblock though.

Yeah, we basically already know Titus is scum.

[Firebringer]

F!@# YOU SUPERJACK! You could have confirmed someone or pegged scum. !@#$@!$!#@%#!%$

Absolutely no mention of roleblock though.

I think he said during day chat he didn't do a action n1.
Not 100% positive on that.

[Sen]

That's his n2 action. It's obvious.

[Frog]

Fire, I posted the solution in reporter chat. Sen, do you approve?

[Frog]

I already have the solution. But if you want to piece everything together for funsies:

"You are a Constable. You may choose two targets at night, one to interrogate for their alignment and one to force to target you. You do not choose which action goes to which target. Neutral Benign, FBI Agent and Spree Killer will show up as Town.

Your partner is X. You think he is either A, B or C role.

You start off with 1 coin."

So SuperJack forced GameFreak to visit him. Fire's coin was still stolen. Which means GameFreak IS actually an unlicensed Doctor.

This presupposes Titus MUST be scum. There are many reasons for that, which I can provide in a proof later, too lazy atm.

GameFreak, we will ask you to trust us and perform a night action later today.

[Sen]

Fire, I posted the solution in reporter chat. Sen, do you approve?
There's a slight problem in the second "if" line due to OoO.

[Frog]

Just a heads up, there is no way scum can win at this point.

GG Corrupt Cops, Customers, Banker.

[Frog]

There's a slight problem in the second "if" line due to OoO.

Fark. Let me work something out.

[TheDarkestLight]

I already have the solution. But if you want to piece everything together for funsies:

"You are a Constable. You may choose two targets at night, one to interrogate for their alignment and one to force to target you. You do not choose which action goes to which target. Neutral Benign, FBI Agent and Spree Killer will show up as Town.

Your partner is X. You think he is either A, B or C role.

You start off with 1 coin."

So SuperJack forced GameFreak to visit him. Fire's coin was still stolen. Which means GameFreak IS actually an unlicensed Doctor.

This presupposes Titus MUST be scum. There are many reasons for that, which I can provide in a proof later, too lazy atm.

GameFreak, we will ask you to trust us and perform a night action later today.

This requires Gamefreak not be a Sociopath.

[Sen]

Just a heads up, there is no way scum can win at this point.

GG Corrupt Cops, Customers, Banker.
You are ignoring my Bailiff feedback there.

[TheDarkestLight]

You are ignoring my Bailiff feedback there.

That would imply FB is lying about everything and wanted to Greed his way to winning.

[Frog]

TDL, do you have your manual vest. No WIFOM. Do you or don't you?

[TheDarkestLight]

TDL, do you have your manual vest. No WIFOM. Do you or don't you?

I do.

[Sen]

That would imply FB is lying about everything and wanted to Greed his way to winning.
Or that he's doing yet another bullshit gambit.

If you think he's saying the truth, then one of the Thieves is a Drug Dealer.
I don't get why would they target me with such feedback, tho. The only way Firebringer could win via coins by tomorrow is if he hit the Banker n1 and the Banker kept silent, so there's no way anyone's lynching Firebringer today, Bailiff or not.
That's the main reason why I'm unsure about drugs; it would imply a terrible strategical decision from the Drug Dealer. Of course, it's entirelly possible.

[Firebringer]

I have 0 coins, I don't know how I would win with greed lol.

Would be pretty epic win.

[Frog]

This requires Gamefreak not be a Sociopath.

GameFreak CANNOT be 2nd Thief because he targeted SuperJack.

IF Titus is scum (and check to make sure Titus is 100% scum before I continue. Prove me wrong.) then Titus was forced to target and steal from Toadette.

Fire had a coin stolen.

Therefore GameFreak CANNOT be a Thief.

[Frog]

I do.

GG

[Sen]

You may choose one player to alter their feedback to anything on the feedback list. You can give two lines of feedback maximum.
Coins count isn't on the feedback list.
Can a Drug Dealer fake the coins count?

[Firebringer]

MVP Frog?

[TheDarkestLight]

GG

The plan is?

[Calix]

Can a Drug Dealer fake the coins count?

Yes.

[Frog]

Ok, it looks like I won't survive to see the end of the game if there are 2 thieves left. But at least we will win.

[Frog]

Fire, Sen - approve the plan?

[Firebringer]

That means a Drug Dealer changed my feedback...
I didn't get the feedback message of a coin stolen.

[Frog]

That means a Drug Dealer changed my feedback...
I didn't get the feedback message of a coin stolen.

This only proves more that GameFreak is Town. It's GG.

[Sen]

Fire, Sen - approve the plan?
Looks alright, but my brain is melting from alcohol and excess of data. I'll give it a thorough review later.

[Damus_Graves]

Im super rusty still.

[Frog]

Sen or Fire - feel free to announce this part of the plan when you're comfortable with it:

Post #16 - from reporter chat D3
Point #4 - just copy and paste that one point

[Sen]

The only way for it to fail is if you are scum and Titus is Town. And if that's the case, then you deserve your GG because I can't find a single reason to believe one thing or the other, so I'm ok with the plan.

No coins given or stolen. Ever.


1. We have proved Titus is Scum, correct? Go back and make sure this is 100% because that is the basis for my next play.

2. I just proved how GameFreak is 100% unliscenced doctor.

3. It is between TDL and Damus (assuming Toadette wasn't the one who stole the coin from you, in which case they are both town).

The EASIEST way to proceed forward is to have:

4. GameFreak attacks TDL - TDL uses his vest

5. Have both TDL AND Damus target me - I will die

The outcomes:

A) I will die 100% - I hope this gets you to trust me now
B) If TDL is Paranoic, he will survive and Damus is lynched
C) If TDL is Thief, he will die
#4 has issues. RLVG is forced to give coins away, whether he likes it or not.
RLVG. You will give me a coin tonight, and another one to Titus.

[Frog]

Im super rusty still.

I'm assuming Noctiz chose you N1?

Honestly your WIFOM had you protected from being day lynched for the first 2 days so it was crazy effective.

[RLVG]

The only way for it to fail is if you are scum and Titus is Town. And if that's the case, then you deserve your GG because I can't find a single reason to believe one thing or the other, so I'm ok with the plan.


#4 has issues. RLVG is forced to give coins away, whether he likes it or not.
RLVG. You will give me a coin tonight, and another one to Titus.

If I target Titus then that will be randomized action if we're lynching Titus, so I'm giving a coin to GF and Sen if that's fine.

[Frog]

The only way for it to fail is if you are scum and Titus is Town. And if that's the case, then you deserve your GG because I can't find a single reason to believe one thing or the other, so I'm ok with the plan.


#4 has issues. RLVG is forced to give coins away, whether he likes it or not.
RLVG. You will give me a coin tonight, and another one to Titus.

I'll discuss the plan implications further in reporter chat.

[Sen]

If I target Titus then that will be randomized action if we're lynching Titus
Is that right?

If no one is selected, the actions will be randomised.
Titus is a valid night action target, since night actions are locked before the lynch.

[RLVG]

Is that right?

Titus is a valid night action target, since night actions are locked before the lynch.

Didn't the host say something about invalidating actions on someone after their lynch? I might remember wrong, but it was during the voting of NoctiZ.

[Calix]

Is that right?

Titus is a valid night action target, since night actions are locked before the lynch.

As the action is mandatory, another player will be selected if a target is lynched.

[Frog]

Sen, I have explained everything in reporter chat.

[Sen]

Hm. I think I deleted the part of my notes where I had the coins count.
Can someone else with notes post a summary of all claims of coins given/stolen so far?

[Frog]

Hm. I think I deleted the part of my notes where I had the coins count.
Can someone else with notes post a summary of all claims of coins given/stolen so far?

For today - Titus and Fire had their coins stolen night 2.

For the previous day - I don't remember.

Check the reporter chat quickly plox.

[Damus_Graves]

Me and TDL I believe?

[Damus_Graves]

dont remember lol

[Frog]

For today - Titus and Fire had their coins stolen night 2.

For the previous day - I don't remember.

Check the reporter chat quickly plox.

From SuperJack's last will for N1 coin actions:

"TheDarkestLight - Lost Coin- Can Banker not Thief
[]I suspect Banker"

"Damus_Graves - Received and Lost a coin. Not Thief or Banker.
[]Due to coin claims, is neither scum role."

"Titus - Given a coin -Thief not banker
[]Really would consider this person a Thief or stupid."

[Sen]

Sen, I have explained everything in reporter chat.
3 is flawed, since that would imply the hypothetical teammate has the kill, and not their target.

Then again, there's no way to come with a bulletproof plan right now without assuming some to be Town and others to be scum. I think you are Town and that Titus is scum, so I'm ok with it.

[Damus_Graves]

How the fuck did they flip town?

I had a coin stolen last night.

I am going to claim. Escort. Targeted SuperJack but given they were actually corrupt cops, I don't know what to think.

Hm

[Sen]

@coins. Oh, well. It doesn't really matter; I was thinking of giving both coins to someone with 0, just in case of Bailiff, but I just noticed that doesn't matter; if Firebringer is a Bailiff and wants to derp, he can simply target RLVG and get 2 coins anyway, so it's irrelevant. GameFreak sounds good as the second's coin receiver.

[Frog]

In addition to your night action, you can choose to steal one coin from a player. You are informed if a Banker attempts to give you a coin.

Does this mean a Thief's action target can be different from their coin stealing target?

[Frog]

3 is flawed, since that would imply the hypothetical teammate has the kill, and not their target.

Then again, there's no way to come with a bulletproof plan right now without assuming some to be Town and others to be scum. I think you are Town and that Titus is scum, so I'm ok with it.

Yeah, I'm trying to find a scenario where it doesn't matter if I'm Town or not for the plan to work.

[Calix]

In addition to your night action, you can choose to steal one coin from a player. You are informed if a Banker attempts to give you a coin.

Does this mean a Thief's action target can be different from their coin stealing target?

A Thief can target X player to steal a coin, Y player to perform a night action and Z player to kill.

[Sen]

What do you make of SuperJack's last will where he states that Damus cannot be Banker nor Thief due to receiving and losing a coind on night 1?

That's a sound argument if said coin claims are true, and by process of elimination now that RLVG claimed the last neutral spot, Damus would be confirmed Town.

[Sen]

OKAY.

[TheDarkestLight]

What do you make of SuperJack's last will where he states that Damus cannot be Banker nor Thief due to receiving and losing a coind on night 1?

That's a sound argument if said coin claims are true, and by process of elimination now that RLVG claimed the last neutral spot, Damus would be confirmed Town.

That would mean everyone save Frog is confirmed.

[Sen]

That would mean everyone save Frog is confirmed.
I cannot say you are confirmed, so it would mean it's either Frog or you.
Interesting.

[Sen]

Frog's plan would out him as the last scum if he survives, tho. Can't see why he would put himself in such position if he was scum.

[Frog]

I played out the scenario for you Sen in reporter chat.

[Frog]

There's only one scenario where there is a marginal possibility of scum winning with my proposed plan, it requires me and and one particular person to be Thieves together.

It requires Titus to be Town.

[Frog]

Fire and Sen - it's your judgement call.

[Sen]

I played out the scenario for you Sen in reporter chat.
I think the base assumption is flawed. Give me a second.

[Frog]

I'm pretty much just doing this for fun at this point because I know I'm Town. But I wanted to find a way to make a foolproof plan.

[Sen]

I think the base assumption is flawed. Give me a second.
Ok, here we go:
- Firebringer forced Titus' actions towards Toadette.
- She knew she was redirected before Firebringer claimed, simply because her final target didn't match her initial one.
- With this knowledge, she was able to fakeclaim having a coin stolen, knowing that the actual victim (Toadette) was dead and unable to counter this.

[Frog]

I think the base assumption is flawed. Give me a second.

I think I found another issue with the plan assuming Titus is Town and someone else in particular is a Thief with another player.

[Sen]

What do you make of SuperJack's last will where he states that Damus cannot be Banker nor Thief due to receiving and losing a coind on night 1?

That's a sound argument if said coin claims are true, and by process of elimination now that RLVG claimed the last neutral spot, Damus would be confirmed Town.
Bump.

[RLVG]

Just saying, the non-banker neutrals should have no coins to start with so by failing to get any coins it could be used as an opporturnity to say he had his coin stolen.

Just throwing out a theory.

[Frog]

What do you make of SuperJack's last will where he states that Damus cannot be Banker nor Thief due to receiving and losing a coind on night 1?

That's a sound argument if said coin claims are true, and by process of elimination now that RLVG claimed the last neutral spot, Damus would be confirmed Town.

I'm going over it now

[Sen]

Just saying, the non-banker neutrals should have no coins to start with so by failing to get any coins it could be used as an opporturnity to say he had his coin stolen.

Just throwing out a theory.
You high, mate? Unless Identity Thief is around, you are the only Neutral left alive.

[Frog]

You high, mate? Unless Identity Thief is around, you are the only Neutral left alive.

Noctiz Lost Customer D1 - That would narrow it to coin loser claimers. TDL and Damus. In that situation. Because they'd know they had an ally who wouldn't counterclaim.

[Frog]

Noctiz Lost Customer D1 - That would narrow it to coin loser claimers. TDL and Damus. In that situation. Because they'd know they had an ally who wouldn't counterclaim.

That would be some mystical D1 shit though in that scenario.

It would require Damus and Noctiz love to be so great.

(and I'm assuming Damus over TDL here)

It would require: Noctiz to lost customer Damus. And Damus to steal no coins from Damus. And that mutual knowledge would allow for that relationship.

It's a very far fetched scenario imo.

[Frog]

That would be some mystical D1 shit though in that scenario.

It would require Damus and Noctiz love to be so great.

(and I'm assuming Damus over TDL here)

It would require: Noctiz to lost customer Damus. And Damus to steal no coins from Damus. And that mutual knowledge would allow for that relationship.

It's a very far fetched scenario imo.

*Edit

It would require:
a) Noctiz to Lost Customer Damus
b) Damus to attempt to steal from Noctiz

[Frog]

For reference to how this scenario is not far fetched AT ALL, just take a look at Noctiz' signature.

[Sen]

It's a very far fetched scenario imo.
Yup.

That said, i was reading RLVG's last post again, and now I have doubts.
Do you get feedback about being robbed if you have 0 coins?

[Calix]

Do you get feedback about being robbed if you have 0 coins?

Yes.

[Damus_Graves]

The feedback is some shit like you find your wallet missing

[Frog]

Damus, you and Noctiz deserve a banner similar to that of FM 20 where the two doctors both healed the same target N1.

[Damus_Graves]

Why so?

[Damus_Graves]

I'm really lost :(

[Sen]

Hm.

I'm going to take a break.
Will reread this whole 2,500+ posts behemoth later and focus on the remaining suspects. This is Mafia. There's no need to leave it up to night actions when we can find the last scum by reading.

[Frog]

I'm really lost :(


Why so?

Because Noctiz Lost Customered you and you tried to steal from Noctiz. Thereby allowing yourself to fakeclaim having a coin stolen. It's the perfect storm.

[Damus_Graves]

Because Noctiz Lost Customered you and you tried to steal from Noctiz. Thereby allowing yourself to fakeclaim having a coin stolen. It's the perfect storm.

How could you possibly have figured out our master plan?
Hacker

[Frog]

The other scenario is you and TDL are in fact cleared, and Toadette was the other Thief. Leaving Titus the last remaining Thief. Toadette being the Identity Thief who went on me.

[Frog]

I'm burned out. I gave the scenario we're currently in in reporter chat post #23

[Frog]

Let's talk about the Toadette death.

1) Toadette being forced to be killed by Titus makes sense
2) Toadette, being a prime suspect, willfully killed by Thieves doesn't make sense. Until you realize SuperJack pretty much stated that Toadette WOULD be the target of Fire's targets. Therefore killing Toadette would frame anyone Fire selected.

-_-

Can anyone 100% say Titus is a Thief?

Damus, you claimed you didn't enact your night action N1? Why? This makes almost no sense.

I'm almost inclined to lynch Damus right now over Titus.

[TheDarkestLight]

Let's talk about the Toadette death.

1) Toadette being forced to be killed by Titus makes sense
2) Toadette, being a prime suspect, willfully killed by Thieves doesn't make sense. Until you realize SuperJack pretty much stated that Toadette WOULD be the target of Fire's targets. Therefore killing Toadette would frame anyone Fire selected.

-_-

Can anyone 100% say Titus is a Thief?

Damus, you claimed you didn't enact your night action N1? Why? This makes almost no sense.

I'm almost inclined to lynch Damus right now over Titus.

Think he claimed it was because he was scared of the Spreekiller?

[Frog]

I worked it all out. I got too caught up in possibilities that were already disproven. Lmao.

[Frog]

Does everyone see how GameFreak is 100% unequivocally proven Town?

TDL, I only see you on. But can you understand that much?

[TheDarkestLight]

Does everyone see how GameFreak is 100% unequivocally proven Town?

TDL, I only see you on. But can you understand that much?

No, not really. Please give me a flawless reason as to why he is.

[Damus_Graves]

Let's talk about the Toadette death.

1) Toadette being forced to be killed by Titus makes sense
2) Toadette, being a prime suspect, willfully killed by Thieves doesn't make sense. Until you realize SuperJack pretty much stated that Toadette WOULD be the target of Fire's targets. Therefore killing Toadette would frame anyone Fire selected.

-_-

Can anyone 100% say Titus is a Thief?

Damus, you claimed you didn't enact your night action N1? Why? This makes almost no sense.

I'm almost inclined to lynch Damus right now over Titus.

[3:06:00 PM] Damus: I made myself a target
[3:06:06 PM] Damus: for literally everyone in the game
[3:06:13 PM] Damus: By claiming thief
[3:06:38 PM] Damus: I was claiming that I was a person of interest for banker, cops, thieves, and the spree killer.
[3:06:44 PM] Damus: If it worked like I thought
[3:06:51 PM] Damus: we would have like six dead people
[3:06:52 PM] Damus: I think
[3:06:53 PM] Damus: that we would have seen the death of
[3:06:53 PM] Damus: 1 thief, 1 banker, 1 Cop, and 1 Townie
[3:06:54 PM] Damus: This would make the game stand at 1 thief, 1 cop, 2 neutral, 4 townies
[3:06:54 PM] Damus: This removes the thieves ability to win and forces the remaining cop to work with town since banker died.
[3:06:55 PM] Damus: idk
[3:07:16 PM] Damus: at least four people dead minimum
[3:07:39 PM] Damus: plus claiming what I did put me in a spot to be suspected
[3:07:55 PM] Damus: which I used to tell who was playing the game at a deeper level.
[3:08:12 PM] Damus: frog sen myself and fire were all playing the wifom game.

[Frog]

No, not really. Please give me a flawless reason as to why he is.

Titus claimed she roleblocked SuperJack.

SuperJack claimed he double acted on GameFreak to be forced to Target him.

GameFreak claimed he used his action on me last night (By the way GameFreak, dick move)

SuperJack and Toadette were killed.

No one else could have visited me last night. So that means GameFreak DID target SuperJack, and not me.

That means one of 2 things.

Either (worst case scenario)

a) Titus didn't roleblock SuperJack

or

b) GameFreak never targeted me, he targeted superjack (sociopath kill or unlicensed doctor kill since no one else targeted SJ)

Bear in mind, Titus was forced to target Toadette, so SuperJack's action would have gone through anyway, forcing GameFreak to target him completely (including coins).

This has several implications regarding coins.

Fire and Titus both claimed coins being stolen.

GameFreak CANNOT be scum in the case where 2 coins are truly stolen because he would have stolen from SuperJack.

1 of two coins are guaranteed stolen.

That one coin CANNOT have been stolen by GameFreak OR Titus.

Therefore GameFreak is guaranteed to be Town 100% without any doubt whatsoever.

It also presents the question:

If a thief is killed, do their coin steals still go through even if they are killed?

The reason I ask is because I still have the suspicion that Toadette was the identity thief.

Even if this is not the case, it doesn't matter AT ALL.

Because GameFreak is 100% proven Town at this point and that is all that matters as that is all I wanted to prove so far.

TDL, can you agree that this reasoning is 100% sound?

If so, I'd like you to agree and say something to the effect of - GameFreak cannot be anything but Town.

[Damus_Graves]

[3:06:00 PM] Damus: I made myself a target
[3:06:06 PM] Damus: for literally everyone in the game
[3:06:13 PM] Damus: By claiming thief
[3:06:38 PM] Damus: I was claiming that I was a person of interest for banker, cops, thieves, and the spree killer.
[3:06:44 PM] Damus: If it worked like I thought
[3:06:51 PM] Damus: we would have like six dead people
[3:06:52 PM] Damus: I think
[3:06:53 PM] Damus: that we would have seen the death of
[3:06:53 PM] Damus: 1 thief, 1 banker, 1 Cop, and 1 Townie
[3:06:54 PM] Damus: This would make the game stand at 1 thief, 1 cop, 2 neutral, 4 townies
[3:06:54 PM] Damus: This removes the thieves ability to win and forces the remaining cop to work with town since banker died.
[3:06:55 PM] Damus: idk
[3:07:16 PM] Damus: at least four people dead minimum
[3:07:39 PM] Damus: plus claiming what I did put me in a spot to be suspected
[3:07:55 PM] Damus: which I used to tell who was playing the game at a deeper level.
[3:08:12 PM] Damus: frog sen myself and fire were all playing the wifom game.

Since I put myself in such a scummy spot I was willing to die.
Also I dont know what I'm going to do when I choose to target someone so my math said its better to not do anything rather than accidently roleblock a TPR.
If I had targeted someone It would have been NoctiZ.

[Frog]

[3:06:00 PM] Damus: I made myself a target
[3:06:06 PM] Damus: for literally everyone in the game
[3:06:13 PM] Damus: By claiming thief
[3:06:38 PM] Damus: I was claiming that I was a person of interest for banker, cops, thieves, and the spree killer.
[3:06:44 PM] Damus: If it worked like I thought
[3:06:51 PM] Damus: we would have like six dead people
[3:06:52 PM] Damus: I think
[3:06:53 PM] Damus: that we would have seen the death of
[3:06:53 PM] Damus: 1 thief, 1 banker, 1 Cop, and 1 Townie
[3:06:54 PM] Damus: This would make the game stand at 1 thief, 1 cop, 2 neutral, 4 townies
[3:06:54 PM] Damus: This removes the thieves ability to win and forces the remaining cop to work with town since banker died.
[3:06:55 PM] Damus: idk
[3:07:16 PM] Damus: at least four people dead minimum
[3:07:39 PM] Damus: plus claiming what I did put me in a spot to be suspected
[3:07:55 PM] Damus: which I used to tell who was playing the game at a deeper level.
[3:08:12 PM] Damus: frog sen myself and fire were all playing the wifom game.

TY for that.

I'm going to be honest. I don't scum read any of you left (other than Titus). I think the game ends with this lynch. But just in case, we have a hot plan.

Damus, I'd like you to look at my post and confirm that GameFreak MUST be Town.

[Frog]

I just re-read my proof. I don't think it's a proof that GameFreak isn't a Thief. :-/

All it proves is that GameFreak wasn't the one who stole Fire's coin.

[TheDarkestLight]

Titus claimed she roleblocked SuperJack.

SuperJack claimed he double acted on GameFreak to be forced to Target him.

GameFreak claimed he used his action on me last night (By the way GameFreak, dick move)

SuperJack and Toadette were killed.

No one else could have visited me last night. So that means GameFreak DID target SuperJack, and not me.

That means one of 2 things.

Either (worst case scenario)

a) Titus didn't roleblock SuperJack

or

b) GameFreak never targeted me, he targeted superjack (sociopath kill or unlicensed doctor kill since no one else targeted SJ)

Bear in mind, Titus was forced to target Toadette, so SuperJack's action would have gone through anyway, forcing GameFreak to target him completely (including coins).

This has several implications regarding coins.

Fire and Titus both claimed coins being stolen.

GameFreak CANNOT be scum in the case where 2 coins are truly stolen because he would have stolen from SuperJack.

1 of two coins are guaranteed stolen.

That one coin CANNOT have been stolen by GameFreak OR Titus.

Therefore GameFreak is guaranteed to be Town 100% without any doubt whatsoever.

It also presents the question:

If a thief is killed, do their coin steals still go through even if they are killed?

The reason I ask is because I still have the suspicion that Toadette was the identity thief.

Even if this is not the case, it doesn't matter AT ALL.

Because GameFreak is 100% proven Town at this point and that is all that matters as that is all I wanted to prove so far.

TDL, can you agree that this reasoning is 100% sound?

If so, I'd like you to agree and say something to the effect of - GameFreak cannot be anything but Town.

You're logic dictates that Firebringer is lying about targeting Titus and that Titus told the truth about being robbed. Why vote Titus if she didn't rob Toadette as Firebringer forced her to do?

[Damus_Graves]

host should modkill me due to me having gained out of game knowledge of Frogs role.

[Frog]

I just re-read my proof. I don't think it's a proof that GameFreak isn't a Thief. :-/

All it proves is that GameFreak wasn't the one who stole Fire's coin.

But I THINK that's all that needs to be proved.

If we are to presuppose that Titus IS in fact Town, then it 100% guarantees that GameFreak is also Town, because neither could have stolen coins.

If Titus is scum, then we don't really need to worry about GameFreak being a Thief or Town until tomorrow.

SO:

If Titus flips Town - then GameFreak is ANOTHER confirmed town tomorrow, and therefore GameFreak's action will go through killing either TDL, Damus, or Myself. I won't reveal the plan JUST yet. But I'm sure you can work it out at this point.

Fire can take care of the other 2 onto another target to prove the rest.

Yeah, it's a GG

[Frog]

host should modkill me due to me having gained out of game knowledge of Frogs role.

You literally don't have to say anything. The game is already done. I'll explain before you're taken out of the game please!

[TheDarkestLight]

But I THINK that's all that needs to be proved.

If we are to presuppose that Titus IS in fact Town, then it 100% guarantees that GameFreak is also Town, because neither could have stolen coins.

If Titus is scum, then we don't really need to worry about GameFreak being a Thief or Town until tomorrow.

SO:

If Titus flips Town - then GameFreak is ANOTHER confirmed town tomorrow, and therefore GameFreak's action will go through killing either TDL, Damus, or Myself. I won't reveal the plan JUST yet. But I'm sure you can work it out at this point.

Fire can take care of the other 2 onto another target to prove the rest.

Yeah, it's a GG

How do we not need to worry about Gamefreak if Titus is scum?

[Damus_Graves]

Unless host comes back saying im not getting modkilled i wont be responding.

imma act like im getting modkilled for this oogcom.

[Frog]

1. I've proven that GameFreak CANNOT have taken Fire's coin.
2. I've proven that if Titus flips Town, GameFreak is ALSO PROVEN town (because neither Titus, nor GameFreak could have stolen Fire's coin), and therefore we can rely on GameFreak for night actions.
3. If Titus flips Thief, then GameFreak is ALSO proven Town because GameFreak CANNOT have stolen Fire's Coin
4. Therefore GameFreak IS proven Town.

YEAH!

Taking this going forward:

5. GameFreak attacks TDL
6. TDL Uses Vest
7. FireBringer forces TDL and Damus to visit me

This will result in:
8. I will die
9. Either TDL lives or dies
(9a)If TDL survives, then we lynch Damus
(9b)If TDL dies, then it's GG

BOOM

AND THAT'S GAME BITCHES

[Frog]

Unless host comes back saying im not getting modkilled i wont be responding.

imma act like im getting modkilled for this oogcom.

You're allowed to clap for me. ;-)

[Frog]

How do we not need to worry about Gamefreak if Titus is scum?

Because Fire had a coin stolen. Both GameFreak AND Titus had their actions wholly redirected. Therefore it's impossible for GameFreak to be the second scum because GameFreak couldn't have stolen Fire's coin.

[TheDarkestLight]

Because Fire had a coin stolen. Both GameFreak AND Titus had their actions wholly redirected. Therefore it's impossible for GameFreak to be the second scum because GameFreak couldn't have stolen Fire's coin.

Where did he say he lost his coin?

[Frog]

Where did he say he lost his coin?

Reporter chat

[Frog]

GG everyone.

IMO lock in targets and end this game.

It was a pleasure playing with you guys. You made it a lot of fun.

[Frog]

Once you understand GameFreak is 100% Town, please say you understand.

[Frog]

I couldn't beat Batman. I'm sad.

Total Posts 2,618

Who Posted?

Posts 491
Frog

Posts 306
Firebringer

Posts 287
RLVG

Posts 267
Sen

Posts 255
Toadette

Posts 175
SuperJack

Posts 171
Damus_Graves

Posts 142
ThePaladin

Posts 140
Titus

Posts 116
TheDarkestLight

Posts 87
DarknessB

Posts 77
GameFreak

Posts 66
NoctiZ

Posts 38
Calix

[Frog]

If a thief is killed, do their coin steals still go through even if they are killed?

I can answer this: Yes

OoO:
Detainer jails
Hooker roleblocks
Escort/ Student/ Sentry roleblocks
Unlicensed Doctor/ Student heals
Constable/ Traffic Warden redirect target's target
Coins transferred/ stolen
All Thief Deceptive roles (Identity Thief, Drug Dealer, Counterfeiter, Student (frame))
Constable/ Student/ FBI Agent investigates
Bouncer protects
Lawyer changes Last Wills
Sociopath/ Retired Officer/ Neutral Killing killCalix previously answered factional kills go here
Unlicensed Doctor kill

[Sen]

I've read the last posts three times now and my brain is like "yeah, not gonna process that right now". I guess it needs some actual rest.

I'll watch a movie and then get some sleep. Will review your plan tomorrow.

Night.

[Frog]

I've read the last posts three times now and my brain is like "yeah, not gonna process that right now". I guess it needs some actual rest.

I'll watch a movie and then get some sleep. Will review your plan tomorrow.

Night.

Just focus on #2611


1. I've proven that GameFreak CANNOT have taken Fire's coin.
2. I've proven that if Titus flips Town, GameFreak is ALSO PROVEN town (because neither Titus, nor GameFreak could have stolen Fire's coin), and therefore we can rely on GameFreak for night actions.
3. If Titus flips Thief, then GameFreak is ALSO proven Town because GameFreak CANNOT have stolen Fire's Coin
4. Therefore GameFreak IS proven Town.

YEAH!

Taking this going forward:

5. GameFreak attacks TDL
6. TDL Uses Vest
7. FireBringer forces TDL and Damus to visit me

This will result in:
8. I will die
9. Either TDL lives or dies
(9a)If TDL survives, then we lynch Damus
(9b)If TDL dies, then it's GG

BOOM

AND THAT'S GAME BITCHES

[Frog]

Just focus on #2611

I see where you may have possible confusion.

It's with point #2:
"2. I've proven that if Titus flips Town, GameFreak is ALSO PROVEN town (because neither Titus, nor GameFreak could have stolen Fire's coin), and therefore we can rely on GameFreak for night actions."

It should read:
2. I've proven that if Titus flips Town, GameFreak is ALSO PROVEN town (because GameFreak, could not have stolen Fire's nor Titus' coin), and therefore we can rely on GameFreak for night actions.

[RLVG]

Because Fire had a coin stolen. Both GameFreak AND Titus had their actions wholly redirected. Therefore it's impossible for GameFreak to be the second scum because GameFreak couldn't have stolen Fire's coin.

Firebringer N1 Damus and Toadette, N2 RLVG and Titus.
Wasn't that the case?

I don't see how Gamefreak AND Titus got redirected since Gamefreak didn't get redirected?

[Frog]

Firebringer N1 Damus and Toadette, N2 RLVG and Titus.
Wasn't that the case?

I don't see how Gamefreak AND Titus got redirected since Gamefreak didn't get redirected?

SuperJack forced GameFreak to target him by making GameFreak both target actions to SuperJack. Unless I'm completely mistaken, I'm sure I read that.

[RLVG]

SuperJack forced GameFreak to target him by making GameFreak both target actions to SuperJack. Unless I'm completely mistaken, I'm sure I read that.

Oh, like that. I just woke up lol.

And we're sure that it forces both actions?

[Frog]

Oh, like that. I just woke up lol.

And we're sure that it forces both actions?

Yeah, I asked Calix like many questions publically.

[TheDarkestLight]

1. I've proven that GameFreak CANNOT have taken Fire's coin.
2. I've proven that if Titus flips Town, GameFreak is ALSO PROVEN town (because neither Titus, nor GameFreak could have stolen Fire's coin), and therefore we can rely on GameFreak for night actions.
3. If Titus flips Thief, then GameFreak is ALSO proven Town because GameFreak CANNOT have stolen Fire's Coin
4. Therefore GameFreak IS proven Town.

YEAH!

Taking this going forward:

5. GameFreak attacks TDL
6. TDL Uses Vest
7. FireBringer forces TDL and Damus to visit me

This will result in:
8. I will die
9. Either TDL lives or dies
(9a)If TDL survives, then we lynch Damus
(9b)If TDL dies, then it's GG

BOOM

AND THAT'S GAME BITCHES

If Firebringer visits me to redirect me, doesn't that count towards stopping the doctor attack?

[TheDarkestLight]

If Firebringer visits me to redirect me, doesn't that count towards stopping the doctor attack?

If this is the case then I recommend GF targeting me, and FB redirecting Frog and Damus to either himself or Sen, and that will allow the three unconfirmed to be accounted for better. I will be confirmed when I survive, and we will know that it is among Damus and Frog.

[Frog]

If Firebringer visits me to redirect me, doesn't that count towards stopping the doctor attack?

Fuck.

[Frog]

If this is the case then I recommend GF targeting me, and FB redirecting Frog and Damus to either himself or Sen, and that will allow the three unconfirmed to be accounted for better. I will be confirmed when I survive, and we will know that it is among Damus and Frog.

I'm pretty sure this works as well.

I'm just cross referencing with scum roles that could trump GF in that scenario of TDL-Damus scum team.

(Honestly, I really don't see you as scum anymore TDL)

[Frog]

Yeah, TDL, factional kill, roleblock, literally anything would trump GF's unlicensed doctor kill in that situation. So it's not really a proof solution.

[Frog]

I know I'm town. I'd feel more comfortable being the target of both you and Damus tonight, letting all of the confirmed survive.

But the issue with that is if Titus is town, and you and Damus are both Thieves together it would be:

One less town tomorrow with 2 thieves siding with RLVG at that point.

2 Thieves + RLVG
vs.
Sen, GF, Fire

It'd go to a 50/50 Calix coin flip to determine the winner thereafter.

Honestly, I think we're all confident Titus is scum anyway. We're looking for an impossible solution at this point.

[Frog]

The biggest issue with your plan of 'choosing to be attacked by GameFreak' is if both you and Damus are thieves together:

A confirmed town could die tonight instead of me.

Resulting in a the remaining town and Fire to trust me over you, Damus, and RLVG.

That uncertainty would suck too much.

The coin flip is better than that uncertainty IMO.

Again, we're considering ridiculous scenarios in which Titus isn't a Thief.

[Frog]

OK TDL - in both of our scenarios. We both have Damus being the one being redirected, right? That would necessarily mean that if either of us were thieves with Damus, then Damus would not be the one with the factional kill. It would be between you and me. Correct? In both scenarios it makes Damus a passive Thief, basically confirmed Thief. Lol. But in terms of game solving scenario, it seems to be lynch Damus. I've probably made a logical fallacy in my rational. In terms of game solving night actions, it would require a judgement call on Fire's part to control Damus with either you or me to the other. But since I KNOW I'm town, I'm much more comfortable with you guys being directed to me, me dying. If you're both scum, you get to witness the most epic of coin flips.

[Frog]

Game solving scenario - if we believe Titus to be Town, we lynch Damus.
If we believe Titus to be scum, and I know I'm Town, then we follow my plan.

[Calix]

host should modkill me due to me having gained out of game knowledge of Frogs role.

Kindly PM or Skype me with the details.

[Frog]

Kindly PM or Skype me with the details.

At worst replace. But if we agree to my plan it's 100% unnecessary and it's GG.

[TheDarkestLight]

OK TDL - in both of our scenarios. We both have Damus being the one being redirected, right? That would necessarily mean that if either of us were thieves with Damus, then Damus would not be the one with the factional kill. It would be between you and me. Correct? In both scenarios it makes Damus a passive Thief, basically confirmed Thief. Lol. But in terms of game solving scenario, it seems to be lynch Damus. I've probably made a logical fallacy in my rational. In terms of game solving night actions, it would require a judgement call on Fire's part to control Damus with either you or me to the other. But since I KNOW I'm town, I'm much more comfortable with you guys being directed to me, me dying. If you're both scum, you get to witness the most epic of coin flips.

You're putting too much bank on Titus being town. You act like the best town, but to prove that you need to be decisive. If we agree with my plan, I die tonight if I'm scum. Also, yes, Sen will die but we know that it will be between you and Damus, and if we Lynch wrong Firebringer forces the other and gamefreak onto me or RLVG, (probably RLVG incase of a sociopath) so that no deaths occur. If RLVG lives it's 3v1v1 and we win.

You put too much on Titus being town. No one claimed roleblocked day two and she just so happened to target a dead person day three. That's scummy as shit.

You say that you know you are town, but we don't, so let's go through with this plan, it's flawless IMO.

[TheDarkestLight]

I know I'm town. I'd feel more comfortable being the target of both you and Damus tonight, letting all of the confirmed survive.

But the issue with that is if Titus is town, and you and Damus are both Thieves together it would be:

One less town tomorrow with 2 thieves siding with RLVG at that point.

2 Thieves + RLVG
vs.
Sen, GF, Fire

It'd go to a 50/50 Calix coin flip to determine the winner thereafter.

Honestly, I think we're all confident Titus is scum anyway. We're looking for an impossible solution at this point.

Look at it like this, if both Damus and I are scum, my plan still lets the town win.

If I was the killer in said scenario, I would have to kill gamefreak to survive the night, and then Sen or FB wouldn't die because Damus wouldn't be the killer. If Damus is then GF would kill me because I couldn't stop him. The only role that could mess that up is a Sociopath, which I am starting to doubt exists more and more.

Also, you keep making these plans with the idea that you are automatically town. Maybe that is true for you, but we don't know. My plan not only proves my role, but it is an efficient way to control the scum. You claim that it is most likely Damus, but that might not be the case FMPOV. It could easily be you, especially since you are the only unconfirmed person who hasn't been robbed, and you already proved that your plans are faulty as we have just shown.

Tell me how my plan could mess up. The only way I see it happening is if both unlikely scenarios of Titus being town and the Thieves having a sociopath is true.

[Calix]

Host announcement: The 'confirmation' of Frog's role turned out to be a misunderstanding.

Nobody is being mod-killed or replaced.

[Frog]

Look at it like this, if both Damus and I are scum, my plan still lets the town win.

If I was the killer in said scenario, I would have to kill gamefreak to survive the night, and then Sen or FB wouldn't die because Damus wouldn't be the killer. If Damus is then GF would kill me because I couldn't stop him. The only role that could mess that up is a Sociopath, which I am starting to doubt exists more and more.

Also, you keep making these plans with the idea that you are automatically town. Maybe that is true for you, but we don't know. My plan not only proves my role, but it is an efficient way to control the scum. You claim that it is most likely Damus, but that might not be the case FMPOV. It could easily be you, especially since you are the only unconfirmed person who hasn't been robbed, and you already proved that your plans are faulty as we have just shown.

Tell me how my plan could mess up. The only way I see it happening is if both unlikely scenarios of Titus being town and the Thieves having a sociopath is true.

Yes, I can see what you mean. It's a straight forward you or gamefreak proof.
If gamefreak dies, you are scum.
If you survive, you are town.
If Frog and Damus go to Sen, and there are 2 Thieves, it minimizes the Banker swing as well.
^(but that's a really dick scenario)
If RLVG dies, it's 50/50 between me or Damus (but I know I'm town) but at least we'll still have majority.
If you decide to attack RLVG, that still leaves you dead, GF alive, and town majority.

Kk. Like this plan 100% more even though it's so damn dick.

GameFreak shoots you.
Fire targets me and Damus to RLVG.

But the downside is that it's a dick plan for rlvg.

[Frog]

Honestly TDL, if anyone here is the second Thief, it's Damus, not you.

So all we'd accomplish is a 50/50 between me and Damus and we can vote on that right now with one major benefit:

RLVG gets his win.

So let's cut to the end to try to spare RLVG a banker win (he was kind enough to help out after all)

If you had to choose between me or Seamus being scum, who would it be?

Bear in mind Noctiz Lost Customer a Thief, and Noctiz-Damus love is a real thing.

If we reason I'm town and Damus is scum, then let's NOT send Damus to kill the banker.

[TheDarkestLight]

Honestly TDL, if anyone here is the second Thief, it's Damus, not you.

So all we'd accomplish is a 50/50 between me and Damus and we can vote on that right now with one major benefit:

RLVG gets his win.

So let's cut to the end to try to spare RLVG a banker win (he was kind enough to help out after all)

If you had to choose between me or Seamus being scum, who would it be?

Bear in mind Noctiz Lost Customer a Thief, and Noctiz-Damus love is a real thing.

If we reason I'm town and Damus is scum, then let's NOT send Damus to kill the banker.

I suggested Sen over RLVG and Firebringer so the Banker and cop survive so that we all win.

[Frog]

I suggested Sen over RLVG and Firebringer so the Banker and cop survive so that we all win.

If Sen is chosen and you are action scum:
GameFreak dies - 2 thieves, banker, corrupt police, 2 town 50/50
If Sen is chosen and Damus is action scum:
Sen dies, and you die - 1 thief, banker, corrupt police, 2 town

With Banker instead of sen it would be:
1) same
2) 1 thief, 1 corrupt police, 3 town

Same outcome.

Kk. Your way works just fine in theory.

Anyway.

Back to the principles-
I know myself to be town
I truly believe Titus is scum

So nothing to worry about.

Again, IF Damus is the second Thief and not Toadette, let's decide now.
Who would you lynch in that 50/50?
I'm saying this so we can speed up the game days, especially after we've discussed at length all these options.
At some point it's just time to play.

If I were in a position to vote again tomorrow, it'd be Damus over TDL where uncertainty exists. Obviously voting Titus today.

[TheDarkestLight]

If Sen is chosen and you are action scum:
GameFreak dies - 2 thieves, banker, corrupt police, 2 town 50/50
If Sen is chosen and Damus is action scum:
Sen dies, and you die - 1 thief, banker, corrupt police, 2 town

With Banker instead of sen it would be:
1) same
2) 1 thief, 1 corrupt police, 3 town

Same outcome.

Kk. Your way works just fine in theory.

Anyway.

Back to the principles-
I know myself to be town
I truly believe Titus is scum

So nothing to worry about.

Again, IF Damus is the second Thief and not Toadette, let's decide now.
Who would you lynch in that 50/50?
I'm saying this so we can speed up the game days, especially after we've discussed at length all these options.
At some point it's just time to play.

If I were in a position to vote again tomorrow, it'd be Damus over TDL where uncertainty exists. Obviously voting Titus today.

Honestly I would probably vote Damus over you, but yeah, the entire first part of this post suggests that Titus isn't scum, which just doesn't fit IMO.

[Sen]

I'll start reading the whole thing right now. Time to solve this.

[TheDarkestLight]

I'll start reading the whole thing right now. Time to solve this.

I feel everything is pretty handled with my plan.

[Frog]

I feel everything is pretty handled with my plan.

^
GameFreak shoots TDL
TDL uses vest (or shoots GF)
Fire forces Me+Damus to visit you

Outcomes:
TDL lives or dies - if Titus!Town, GF dies - 50/50 between thieves and town coin flip since tie TDL+Damus+RLVG vs. Frog,Sen,Fire
If Sen dies - 50/50 it's Damus or me - town has majority. TDL+GF+Fire+RLVG v. Me or Damus

[Sen]

Precisely; I don't want to leave it up to a possible coin flip when there are 2,500+ replies to help us solve this right away.

[TheDarkestLight]

^
GameFreak shoots TDL
TDL uses vest (or shoots GF)
Fire forces Me+Damus to visit you

Outcomes:
TDL lives or dies - if Titus!Town, GF dies - 50/50 between thieves and town coin flip since tie TDL+Damus+RLVG vs. Frog,Sen,Fire
If Sen dies - 50/50 it's Damus or me - town has majority. TDL+GF+Fire+RLVG v. Me or Damus

So yeah, unless you think Titus is town, we're fine.

[TheDarkestLight]

Precisely; I don't want to leave it up to a possible coin flip when there are 2,500+ replies to help us solve this right away.

The only way we get a coin flip is if Titus is town.

[Frog]

Precisely; I don't want to leave it up to a possible coin flip when there are 2,500+ replies to help us solve this right away.

Lo. Yeah. Take your time.

We've pretty much concluded it's either Titus + Toadette or Titus + Damus

[GameFreak]

Im sure Titus dies and we win, remember how Toadette said at the end of every day "i didnt put in LW" probably because she couldnt put anythng in it since she didnt know her role and an lw without role is too obvious.

[Frog]

Im sure Titus dies and we win, remember how Toadette said at the end of every day "i didnt put in LW" probably because she couldnt put anythng in it since she didnt know her role and an lw without role is too obvious.

^ Probably this. Of all of the claims before she claimed, mine was the easiest to copy (most believable).

BUT - I cannot underestimate the Damus-Noctiz love cycle.

[TheDarkestLight]

Im sure Titus dies and we win, remember how Toadette said at the end of every day "i didnt put in LW" probably because she couldnt put anythng in it since she didnt know her role and an lw without role is too obvious.

Possibily the case, but better safe than sorry

[Sen]

Done with day 1. It's such a different read when you have actual time to read and when a few people have already flipped.

Gonna take a break and start with the remaining posts in a couple hours. Just wanted to say that I'm loving this game; it's been a really enjoyable experience and the level is just great. (:

[RLVG]

Just saying this: I'd like the Town to win.
I have far more friends and people I know in the Town than I do for scum that can win. :cheesy:

If there's a weird 50-50 situation where I can pick a side, I'll aid the Town.

[RLVG]

If there's a weird 50-50 situation where I can pick a side, I'll aid the Town.

That is, if I don't win by Day 4 because any later would just be gamethrowing.

[Frog]

Done with day 1. It's such a different read when you have actual time to read and when a few people have already flipped.

Gonna take a break and start with the remaining posts in a couple hours. Just wanted to say that I'm loving this game; it's been a really enjoyable experience and the level is just great. (:

I'm re-reading right now. Switched to 50 posts per page for convenience.

[Frog]

Neutral Reads:
ThePaladin
Damus_Graves
DarknessB

Thief:
Toadette
Not Sure

Rest Town.
This is what I am currently thinking.

I've been reading Fire's reads lists. Fire is, truly, the master of the gut read. Seriously unbeatable gut reads.

[Frog]

So right now:

Town
RLVG
Gamefreak
TheDarkestLight
Noctiz
SuperJack
DarknessB
Everyone Else
Toadette
Scum

Here's his first reads list.

[Frog]

I trust Firebringer over you.

it was right under our noses the whole time!


Ok, here's where I am at. Toadette is really town for their first few posts. In the rare event I am wrong, her partner is a noob as well. I like Sen wanting to get his point across and not wanting to spam up the thread. Don't really care for Paladin's troll antics and his insistence that he's soft claimed a few things. Rl go spamming about student is just wierd when the obvious response is just to target nulls. Super jack no more big spammy posts please. Firebringer I feel is scummy but I have read him wrong lately as town so I wanna let that go for now.

I feel that Notciz TDL darkness and game freak are being spammed out. I hardly remember them.

ThePaladin

Toadette is Titus' only town read. Basically slips saying "if I'm wrong, her PARTNER" - implies thief.

Yeah, pretty sure the Titus lynch is GG.

[Frog]

Titus always a pleasure playing with you.
Mind me asking why you think I am scum?

You mean, other than you and superjack voting Toadette? You gave some pretty solid reasoning that LUCKILY wasn't completely drowned out. SuperJack had your back and gave your credibility. Other than that, everyone was piling on the "shit on paladin and game freak train.". Admittingly, Paladin was being scummy. TDL noted with good reason how Paladin was probably a cit (good instinct). I'm referring to DarknessB, Titus, soon after Toadette and RLVG piled onto the easy lynch target Paladin.

Yeah. I meant last few posts which should have been evident by context and her ISO being really laid out there shows the scumhunting and train of thought. I would be very surprised if ToDette was scum.

This is Titus responding to SuperJack's criticism of how the flip Titus could have town read toadette. SuperJack posted all of Toadette's posts demonstrating there was nothing town about it. I later asked Titus this same question SuperJack asked Titus. To which Titus did not respond. Maybe it was selective, or maybe it's because she wasn't anticipating such a high post count / content game.

[Frog]

Read Titus' flow of selective responses, especially regarding Toadette:
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/34902-S-FM-179-Cop-Out?p=563593&viewfull=1#post563593

[RLVG]

No links. :push:

[Firebringer]

Frog you be insulting me now?

[TheDarkestLight]

Frog you be insulting me now?

Yeah, I also took the posts as sarcasm.

[Frog]

No links. :push:

It's not oog. It's internal to post #. :-P


Frog you be insulting me now?

No, I'm serious. Your main gut had you going after Toadette, with Darkness also at the bottom. You were on the right track. I'll explain further in spiler with more notes I'll dump as I'm rereading.



I said vote with me scrub!
Since when did I become the serious one of the two of us?

This is some bizzaro world. Where I take the game serious and you just goof off.
I want to go back to regular world pls.

Did I do better Fire?


Why are you specifically telling Fire that I'm scum?
Shouldn't you be trying to convince everyone unless you think you got a scum that's going to help your case.

Lol, because Fire was voting Toadette. Derp.


I can't even read this drivel anymore.

Toadette discredits (not the first or last time. lol.)


Going to insult me all game bae or going to actually engage with me?

Fire calls her out


Making associations before flips is lol

Discouraging the overtly obvious


Toadette isn't a thief yo. They're probably town. We can fight this out later. Work with me today. Neither of us think Paladin is town.

So insistent :-P


Except Titus' reasoning is sound.

Lol. Sen pioneered that position about Paladin. Selective Vision is strong.


why is none paying attention to me!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thieves have feelings too :(

It's funny WIFOM was more Town. And scum was more straight forward power wolfing.

Remember when I asked Titus if she was normally a power wolf? Because this.


Toadette, let's get away from here. The point is clear. scum aren't going to claim scum anymore than paladin likely has. We don't want to drown out ourselves before the English people get on.

@Fire, if rlvg defends this, he'll be "I wish I was a vig" category of needs death. You're avoiding voting not town to vote obvtown Fire. I am not happy.

Straight forward

[Frog]

This is more of an example of a head scratcher.


Heres an amazingly concise list

Fire-very town
Toadette-Town
Sen-Scum/Neut
Damus-Scum
SJ-Scum

This is all d1 reads from one major argument though.

[Sen]

I'm just starting day 2, but iirc, GameFreak claimed healing you n1, right, Frog?
I think Titus was calling that shot as early as #725. If the wording indicates anything, it seems she's not the one with the kill. #1009 is where she announces who she's going to steal from on that night.

[Firebringer]

I didn't play this game the best, especially with logic on my night actions. And a few other errors, I must have been high :wm:

[Frog]

LOOOL. Has anyone else realized yet? Maybe I'll just stfu. I'm undecided at the moment if I should reveal it or not.

[Frog]

LOOOL. Has anyone else realized yet? Maybe I'll just stfu. I'm undecided at the moment if I should reveal it or not.

Sen, if you reread Day 1, you probably noticed it as well.

[Frog]

I'm just starting day 2, but iirc, GameFreak claimed healing you n1, right, Frog?
I think Titus was calling that shot as early as #725. If the wording indicates anything, it seems she's not the one with the kill. #1009 is where she announces who she's going to steal from on that night.

I thought he claimed healing me last night and took no action night 1. But maybe it was both nights. I'm pretty sure Toadette used the eulogy thing on me as a note to tell Titus to kill me. She did this on both D1 and D2.

[Sen]

Realize what? I'm spotting new things every other page now.

[Frog]

But if GameFreak knew I was healed night 1... then why didn't GameFreak confirm me today? That's a head scratcher.

@GameFreak - did you target me night 1? That would confirm me and make night actions tonight a lot easier to coordinate in terms of keeping everyone happy.

Buuuut, I'm pretty sure the game ends with this Titus lynch.

Btw - all I can say is, I'm sorry Fire and SuperJack.

[Frog]

Realize what? I'm spotting new things every other page now.

Ah fuck it, I'll just say it now.

Look at the corrupt police win con.

[Sen]

Look at the corrupt police win con.
And that's why I didn't want to leave it up to the night actions. I don't fully trust to be playing pro-town. SuperJack certainly was, but Firebringer's behaviour and words were anti-town well up until the whole "should we lynch the Cops?" debate started. Furthermore, the coins, reads and feedback don't add up.

[TheDarkestLight]

Ah fuck it, I'll just say it now.

Look at the corrupt police win con.

Then we're going to have to decide tomorrow...

[Firebringer]

And that's why I didn't want to leave it up to the night actions. I don't fully trust to be playing pro-town. SuperJack certainly was, but Firebringer's behaviour and words were anti-town well up until the whole "should we lynch the Cops?" debate started. Furthermore, the coins, reads and feedback don't add up.
You kidding? I have been pro town all game.

[Firebringer]

I am not even changing my night action.

I don't need Calix to tell me I won this game.
I won this game with the town.

[Frog]

And that's why I didn't want to leave it up to the night actions. I don't fully trust to be playing pro-town. SuperJack certainly was, but Firebringer's behaviour and words were anti-town well up until the whole "should we lynch the Cops?" debate started. Furthermore, the coins, reads and feedback don't add up.

The coins thing - The only thing that matters is what RLVG told us. The steal claims make GameFreak confirmed town. If GameFreak targeted me night 1 then I'm also confirmed town.

In any case, I don't really see anyone other than Titus + Toadette Thief team. I'm looking into Titus + Damus as I'm reading through but I don't see it.

[Frog]

The truth is , Corrupt Cops were almost forced to be outted while under extreme scrutiny. RLVG outted today because it was in his best interest to win. So while I considered putting the Titus vote off later so we could night kill banker and Titus for a corrupt cop win, RLVG kind of deserves it in this instance.

[Sen]

You kidding? I have been pro town all game.
#80 Saying we should talk about getting the Banker to reveal.
#549 Nobody cares about greed today except Corrupt police and thieves.
#1357 When have I lied about my role or action as town?

#80 sounds like you were suggesting focusing on the Banker.
#549 you say that you care about the greed wincon.
#1557 Next day you proceeded to imply having a confirmed guilty on Noctiz, when your role doesn't allow you to do so.
It wasn't until SuperJack outed you as the Cops that you decided to overtly claim siding with the Town.

Now compare that to SuperJack:
#455 Is it really winning when most of us end up murdered?
#490 See^ want bankers dead.
#1554 I revealed for the pure fact that I am working with town.

He was hinting that you should side with us well before d2's clusterfuck.

[Sen]

The coins thing - The only thing that matters is what RLVG told us.
haven't got there yet. Who did he claim giving coins on n1?

[Sen]

Actually, it doesn't matter who he gave coins to.
Firebringer claims forcing Toadette to visit NoctiZ n1. If Toadette was a Thief, NoctiZ would've lost one coin that night (or at least get feedback about it, since he had no coins to start with).

So if you think Toadette to have been Titus' partner, you must also believe Firebringer to be lying.
Then there's the wholee supposed Drug Dealer. Who got targetted n1?

[Firebringer]

#80 Saying we should talk about getting the Banker to reveal.
#549 Nobody cares about greed today except Corrupt police and thieves.
#1357 When have I lied about my role or action as town?

#80 sounds like you were suggesting focusing on the Banker.
#549 you say that you care about the greed wincon.
#1557 Next day you proceeded to imply having a confirmed guilty on Noctiz, when your role doesn't allow you to do so.
It wasn't until SuperJack outed you as the Cops that you decided to overtly claim siding with the Town.

Now compare that to SuperJack:
#455 Is it really winning when most of us end up murdered?
#490 See^ want bankers dead.
#1554 I revealed for the pure fact that I am working with town.

He was hinting that you should side with us well before d2's clusterfuck.

#80 Getting banker to reveal then lynching them would elimnate Thief win con. Thats pro town.
#540 Your point? This isn't anti town.
#1357 This is a true statement.
$549 I don't care about the greed win con.
#1557 Under the circumstances, I really assumed my action and resulting no flip a guilty on Noctiz by association to two people who I viewed as Null and Scum visiting him.

I was with the town whole time, if you don't realize that then I don't know what to say.
Go read SFM Illuminati, I was neutral than and sided with town whole way through.

[Frog]

Wait. I just thought of something.

N1 I gave Coins to Titus and Damus.

Both of them claimed of receiving them.

N2 was:


My intended target were SJ and Titus for N2.

[Frog]

Actually, it doesn't matter who he gave coins to.
Firebringer claims forcing Toadette to visit NoctiZ n1. If Toadette was a Thief, NoctiZ would've lost one coin that night (or at least get feedback about it, since he had no coins to start with).

So if you think Toadette to have been Titus' partner, you must also believe Firebringer to be lying.
Then there's the wholee supposed Drug Dealer. Who got targetted n1?

Drug dealer + ?

Your bailiff feedback seems falsified.

[Sen]

I was with the town whole time, if you don't realize that then I don't know what to say.
Go read SFM Illuminati, I was neutral than and sided with town whole way through.
Not gonna read a different game when I have 1,000+ replies to go through. Whatever the case, you aren't getting lynched today, and whether you started as pro-town or were forced into it, you are pretty much forced to play pro-town now, since even if my feedback was forged, you wouldn't be able to win by tomorrow even if RLVG wanted to help you.

I'm just trying to solve the puzzle before the day ends. Even if some wincons overlap, there's players of 4 different factions alive right now. It makes me paranoid that some pieces don't fit together.

[Frog]

Agree 100%

Between Noctiz and Damus, Damus kept the troll going past usual. Suggests gambit imo.

I like your vote on RLVG atm and comments so far. I'm town reading you so far.

IMO, Sen(neut kill), SJ, TDL, and myself should block vote EOD.

Lmfao. Replace SJ with Fire.

[Sen]

Drug dealer + ?

Your bailiff feedback seems falsified.
If you think there's a Drug Dealer, then one of the following is true:
A) Toadette is Town (only scum role shou could've been is Identity Thief).
B) Firebringer isn't a Traffic Warden, since he says Titus was redirected towards Toadatte last night, thus she couldn't have drugged me.

[Frog]

SuperJack is hunting greed anti-town. That's my reasoning.

You're empowering greed by saying rlvg was town at that point. Especially after his only contribution was suggesting outing a 2-coin carrier. Your read doesn't add up and you're refusing to explain because you can't. Not because you don't want to. I'm letting you pass today because you're not a priority lynch, but I think you know you're outed at this point.

Do not greed win-con plox.

This was me after my initial read on Fire as a corrupt cop. Lawls.

[TheDarkestLight]

I am not even changing my night action.

I don't need Calix to tell me I won this game.
I won this game with the town.

And... what were said actions...

[Firebringer]

And... what were said actions...

damus and TDL visit Frog

This is what I was told to do.

[Frog]

If you think there's a Drug Dealer, then one of the following is true:
A) Toadette is Town (only scum role shou could've been is Identity Thief).
B) Firebringer isn't a Traffic Warden, since he says Titus was redirected towards Toadatte last night, thus she couldn't have drugged me.

Ah ok thanks for the explanation! This does present an issue. I had Toadette 100% pegged as identity theft. And that would leave Titus as the forger. Because Toadette flipped town, she cannot have been forger. And Because Titus was redirected, she cannot have been forger.

So either Fire lied to us, and Titus killed Toadette to oddly frame herself?

You're right. This stinks so bad.

The only other alternative that I'm looking into seriously is Damus-Titus.

Again, the basis for this is to do with Damus-Noctiz love and Noctiz' lost customer flip.

I think you're right and we're far from solved.

[Sen]

damus and TDL visit Frog

This is what I was told to do.
#1731 Noctiz was the target of two players. Toadette and Damus Graves.
#1748 Listen. Toadette. You are going to be the target of two players tonight.

So you've been misleading the town all of this time.

[Sen]

Lie after lie. It seems I was onto something after all.
Will be back in a few.

[Frog]

I think I know what may have happened.

Fire or SuperJack was roleblocked night 1. I'm assuming SuperJack. Titus is escort or consort.

[Firebringer]

#1731 Noctiz was the target of two players. Toadette and Damus Graves.
#1748 Listen. Toadette. You are going to be the target of two players tonight.

So you've been misleading the town all of this time.


Lie after lie. It seems I was onto something after all.
Will be back in a few.

Are you high?
This is the night action I am doing tonight.

Not for N2. For N3.

Dude, pass me the pot if you are having a hit.

[Firebringer]

I don't get why Sen wants to paint me as this super anti town player, when that clearly isn't the case at all lol.

I am so pro town to a fault.

[Frog]

No wait, Fire was roleblocked night 1 by Titus, and THAT'S why there were no claims of bailiff feedback D2.

I think Fire was asking if anyone was roleblocked yesterday? And was trying to get the rber to claim. I think he was signaling to SuperJack that he was roleblocked.

But the lie is this - Titus still claims she didn't act N1. So that's a derp.

[Firebringer]

#1731 Noctiz was the target of two players. Toadette and Damus Graves.
#1748 Listen. Toadette. You are going to be the target of two players tonight.

So you've been misleading the town all of this time.


No wait, Fire was roleblocked night 1 by Titus, and THAT'S why there were no claims of bailiff feedback D2.

I think Fire was asking if anyone was roleblocked yesterday? And was trying to get the rber to claim. I think he was signaling to SuperJack that he was roleblocked.

But the lie is this - Titus still claims she didn't act N1. So that's a derp.

Frog, get out of your own head with all these scenarios for a minute.
I was not roleblocked.

Jesus Christ.

[Frog]

I think GameFreak DID actually target me last night. I think SuperJack WAS in fact roleblocked by Titus last night.

AND

here's the good part:

I think Toadette ALSO targeted me last night as an identity thief - which is why I survived.

The lie that we have here is multi tiered and basically that Fire completely lied to us about his role. He is in fact a Bailiff.

[Frog]

I don't get why Sen wants to paint me as this super anti town player, when that clearly isn't the case at all lol.

I am so pro town to a fault.

Why would Sen invent Bailiff feedback?

[Firebringer]

I think GameFreak DID actually target me last night. I think SuperJack WAS in fact roleblocked by Titus last night.

AND

here's the good part:

I think Toadette ALSO targeted me last night as an identity thief - which is why I survived.

The lie that we have here is multi tiered and basically that Fire completely lied to us about his role. He is in fact a Bailiff.

You give me way too much credit.

[TheDarkestLight]

damus and TDL visit Frog

This is what I was told to do.

We made a new plan you know.

[Firebringer]

We made a new plan you know.

Whats the new plan?

[Frog]

We made a new plan you know.

He's a bailiff. Lol. He's going to go for banker tonight. He cannot help town unless we agree to lynch banker over him.

[Frog]

Whats the new plan?

Dude, if you're just honest about your role, you'll make it a lot easier for us to plan.

[Frog]

I believe night actions are a moot point anyway. Game ends with this lynch.

[Firebringer]

Frog, you are way too high for me to deal with right now. You and Sen need to share the weed.

[Frog]

Yes, greed is #1 issue going forward. Eliminating banker aligns corrupt police easily and makes the game harder for thieves.

You're willfully ignorant to suggest otherwise.

You still haven't explained how you town read rlvg.

You're implicitly agreeing 2-coin role should be outted... why? Greed.

You're both downplaying greed, and supporting it. You're quite obvious at this point.



You aren't going to eliminate banker without eliminating neutral reads. Which right now if you have read the game should probably be Paladin. But greed is a long term issue, not day 1 concern. I disagree

Your face is ignorant.

And your reads aren't that good or explained either. I got a good feeling of RLVG, that I have read from his posts, and if you have read the whole game, I did give a explanation.

Where did I state this? What 2 coin role are you even referring to? Where are you getting your info from Frog?

OMG FROG, YOU ARE MAKING NO SENSE SO FAR.

Lol Fire. I caught the corrupt cop & banker in one swoop. You make sense now. :-)

[Sen]

I believe night actions are a moot point anyway. Game ends with this lynch.
iwantobelieve.png
Gonna continue my read now.

[TheDarkestLight]

Whats the new plan?


If this is the case then I recommend GF targeting me, and FB redirecting Frog and Damus to either himself or Sen, and that will allow the three unconfirmed to be accounted for better. I will be confirmed when I survive, and we will know that it is among Damus and Frog.

I suggest putting that in in case Titus isn't the last scum. Better safe than sorry.

[TheDarkestLight]

I believe night actions are a moot point anyway. Game ends with this lynch.

It won't end until either the cop or banker is dead because of the cops win condition I believe.

[Frog]

Frog, you are way too high for me to deal with right now. You and Sen need to share the weed.

Either [Titus is Town & Toadette was scum] or [you're lying because you'll lose]. What makes more sense?

Toadette had to be scum in that scenario because if Town!Titus rbed SJ, then the only player who could have targeted me was Toadette!IdentityThief.

This implies the second thief is still at large and chose to enact the factional kill on Toadette to frame Titus AND drug dealt to Sen with fake bailiff feedback.

Actually, this doesn't necessarily make Toadette scum. It could mean both TDL AND Damus are scum together, where one of them targeted Sen with drug dealer feedback, and the other targeted me with an action (Lawyer, Counterfeiter, Identity Thief) and chose to enact factional kill on SuperJack....

Yeah that's too many actions.

If the two thieves were TDL and Damus- it would be IMPOSSIBLE - because they would needed to have killed SuperJack (because SuperJack was roleblocked and GameFreak targetted me), Killed Titus, drug dealt Sen, AND targetted me. That means it would require the sociopath, drugdealer, AND something else. This isn't possible.

THEREFORE - TDL AND DAMUS cannot BOTH be THIEVES. PROOF

[Frog]

It won't end until either the cop or banker is dead because of the cops win condition I believe.

Nah, it'll end because of this:

Customers: Eliminate the Thieves and any Neutral Killing roles. Have at least one Customer survive until the end. If the Corrupt Police gain eight coins, Customers do not automatically win with them.

[Frog]

Confirmed Roles:
RLVG - Banker
Firebringer - Traffic Warden OR Bailiff
Sen - Reporter
Frog - Customer (I'm throwing myself in here. FU)

Confirmed Proofs:
GameFreak - Unlicensed Doctor must be town
TDL AND Damus cannot both be Thieves

All we need to do tomorrow is prove either TDL is town or not. If he is, then lynch Damus. If he dies, then it's GG. Anything else is superfluous but do it if you really feel like it.

The problem with this is - although we can trust GameFreak to target TDL, we can't trust fire NOT to target TDL, thereby rendering the whole thing a ball of confusion.

In fact, if Fire decided to target TDL, and TDL were the thief and killed Sen, then it would Frame Damus as the Thief. TDL would remain silent on the bailiff feedback.

[Sen]

The problem I'm having is that both TDL and Damus claimed being robbed n1, and noone countered. There were no kills n1, so they couldn't fake a corpse's coins being stolen, which means that either:
A) None of them are scum.
B) One of them was roleblocked and was unable to steal, which would beg why Titus never claimed this.
C) Someone lost a coin n1 and is playing along with the Thieves.

[Frog]

Ok, I solved it for Town and Fire.

The truth is we need Fire to win whether or not he is bailiff or traffic warden.

Fire As Traffic Warden:

If he were traffic warden, playing to his win con would have him directing me and damus to RLVG. If RLVG dies, its a bonus for him because banker dies. If Banker dies we lynch Damus.

GameFreak targets TDL. If GameFreak dies and TDL is alive, then we lynch TDL.

Fire as Bailiff:
If Fire is Bailiff, he is essentially acting like a doctor.

GameFreak targets TDL - if TDL is alive and GameFreak dies, then we lynch TDL
If Damus is Thief - he can choose to target GameFreak to frame TDL.
If Fire protects GameFreak, it eliminates this option and then we can lynch Damus if no one dies.
The problem with this scenario is that banker is still alive and can still win with Town, and therefore Fire loses.
The alternative is:
Fire targets TDL to make sure he stays alive if he is thief to cause massive confusion, meanwhile GameFreak dies assuming TDL is thief.
Alternatively Thieves don't kill at all it's a 50/50 coin flip on lynching TDL or Damus.
I'm going to fast forward this for you:
Fire if you are bailiff, there is no way you can win. I'm sorry. You'd need to keep GameFreak alive and have him kill the banker AND still have majority to outvote the Thief. It's actually im possible.

So here's the deal Fire.

Let's go into the reporter chat, we'll discuss which options are real.

[Frog]

The problem I'm having is that both TDL and Damus claimed being robbed n1, and noone countered. There were no kills n1, so they couldn't fake a corpse's coins being stolen, which means that either:
A) None of them are scum.
B) One of them was roleblocked and was unable to steal, which would beg why Titus never claimed this.
C) Someone lost a coin n1 and is playing along with the Thieves.

I think we're waaaaay overcomplicating it.

I think Fire is the bailiff, and the scum team was Toadette - Titus.

If this isn't the case, then I think we have Damus-Titus, in which case making Fire bailiff.

One thing I am POSITIVE on, is that Titus MUST be a Thief.

Because of the proof Damus and TDL CANNOT both be thieves together, and everyone else is confirmed, then Titus MUST be a thief without any doubts.

Bearing this in mind that Titus is a Thief, I don't know how much we can actually trust from her.

I'm going to continue thinking this through the implications about Titus being a thief.

This would mean the thieves wouldn't willfully choose to target Toadette otherwise it would frame their own partner.

Titus is the factional killer and NOT the drug dealer.

That would mean the remaining thief is alive and I owe Toadette a very sincere apology.

That would basically guarantee that Fire is the traffic warden.

That means we won.

Fire should submit his action to target me and Damus to go for RLVG - it's the only way he can meet his win condition. Not doing this would be against his win con.

[Frog]

Fuck, I'm so damn close, let me think for a bit.

I think I have this solved.

[Frog]

Premises:

Titus must be scum - I'm basing this on proof that Damus AND TDL CANNOT be Thieves together.

Scum team would not willingly frame their own.

Fire is traffic warden.

You received false feedback.

There is a drug dealer. Toadette was not a Thief, and I owe her a huge apology.

We take this information going into the night with this in mind.

[Sen]

I'm at page 40/55. Should be done before long. I'll review the plan you have once I'm done reading and have all the information available.

[Frog]

Fire has to play to his wincon. We shouldn't convince him out of it.

If he wants to help town the most, he would target me and Damus to target the banker.
Considering I'm pretty sure Damus is the second thief, he would still win because the banker would die.
TDL should survive GameFreak's night action.
Then we lynch Damus tomorrow.

If Fire really wants to be a dick, he can realize I'm Town, and force TDL and Damus to visit RLVG to ensure that the banker dies.
The problem with that scenario is that if he reveals what he did, it will be a massive confusion clusterfuck:
It will create a 50/50 of lynching TDL or Damus tomorrow.

I'm not even going to entertain speculative theories on me being a thief. It's a waste of time and I've already spent too much time trying to think every scenario out.

In order to ensure that Fire feels good about this decision, let's spend the rest of today focusing on Damus. This will let him perform his action of targeting me and Damus to RLVG.

Sorry RLVG.

[Frog]

@GameFreak

Can you confirm that you're shooting TDL tonight please?

[Frog]

The reason I'd assume Damus is the second thief over TDL is because TDL is both eager and willing to be proven as a town through tonight's actions.

That in itself should be incentive enough for Fire to believe Damus is the second thief, and therefore Fire, as weakly proven traffic warden, should target both myself and Damus to target RLVG. Doing anything else wouldn't be playing to his own win con.

The only other main things that I can see with Damus being the second thief, other than continually claiming to be thief, is that Noctiz flip. If Noctiz were to choose anyone, I would think it would be Damus. Again, just look at Noctiz signature, which is a quote from Damus talking to Noctiz saying something like: "I don't hate you Noctiz, I make love to you bebe"

[Sen]

To be fair, if it wasn't Toadette + Titus, then the rest is out of our hands. As you say, Firebringer can win with us if he's Traffic Warden, or lose and make us lose if he's Bailiff.

Whatever the case, I'm just interested in solving the puzzle. This game has been fun, and that's all I can ask from a game of Mafia.

[Frog]

To be fair, if it wasn't Toadette + Titus, then the rest is out of our hands. As you say, Firebringer can win with us if he's Traffic Warden, or lose and make us lose if he's Bailiff.

Whatever the case, I'm just interested in solving the puzzle. This game has been fun, and that's all I can ask from a game of Mafia.

Same :-) I wouldn't be obsessing over this otherwise. I'd simply leave it to - lynch Titus today, if game doesn't end, lynch Noctiz tomorrow.

The problem is that TDL, myself, and Damus are unknowns for you. For me it's easier because I'm one of the unknowns. So I can say with confidence that Damus must be the DrugDealer.

I'm trying to figure out what Titus' role was.

Who did Fire target N1 again?

From setup spec:
Spree Killer + traffic warden + banker seems like enough, but it mat make more sense for Thieves to have a multi-shot role, uncertain.

Based on the fact that I'm positive Damus is the second thief, and there are no alignment checkers other than SuperJack, I'm doubting that multi-shot counterfeiter.

No one claim roleblocked N1, but Titus claim seems to play into consort.

Lawyer seems unlikely since Toadette said she wasn't even leaving a last will and there was no action there.

Sociopath seems unlikely considering the lack of night kills.

Identity Thief IS possible, but I think Titus may have softclaimed escort before.

The only real options are counterfitter or identity thief.

If I were to make a best guess, I'd say Titus is Identity Thief and will flip Customer because she was forced to visit Toadette.

[Frog]

@Toadette Hi there! I owe you a huge apology! We just realized you were town. Woops...

[Sen]

Who did Fire target N1 again?
#1731 Noctiz was the target of two players. Toadette and Damus Graves.

[Frog]

#1731 Noctiz was the target of two players. Toadette and Damus Graves.

Right, so that makes complete sense with Damus being the drug dealer then.

Damus tries to steal a coin from noctiz but gets 0 coins (indicating Noctiz is a neut).
Damus receives feedback that he was lost customered.
Puts 2 and 2 together, and claims to have had a coin stolen on Noctiz' behalf.
Noctiz should have received whatever drug dealt feedback Damus gave him to him.
I'm going to review whatever Noctiz said D2 then.

[Frog]

I got interesting feedback. Keeping it hidden for now since it doesn't confirm or deny people. At least I don't think it does.

This suggests Noctiz lost customered Titus?

[Sen]

This suggests Noctiz lost customered Titus?
My owrking theory is that this happened.
Second option would be that NoctiZ got you as a mentor, but I've yet to find something that makes you remotelly as a good scum candidate as Titus is, even now that I'm trying to read all of my unknowns from the scummiest angle possible.

Gonna take another 1h~ break.

[Frog]

My owrking theory is that this happened.
Second option would be that NoctiZ got you as a mentor, but I've yet to find something that makes you remotelly as a good scum candidate as Titus is, even now that I'm trying to read all of my unknowns from the scummiest angle possible.

Gonna take another 1h~ break.

Go for it!

I'm working on another theory ATM reviewing Damus and Noctiz posts.

What if Toadette were the identity thief and RLVG were the assassin?

That would make Damus or TDL the REAL banker.

That would imply FireBringer is bailiff.

That would theoretically have Toadette visit me and therefore I didn't die to GameFreak since SuperJack was roleblocked. Toadette would factional kill SuperJack and RLVG would be forced to kill Toadette.

I think the simple proof of this being untrue is where RLVG says who he he distributed the coins to. Looking into this for fun, but I want to prove how it cannot be true. If it cannot be true, then Toadette must be town.

[GameFreak]

Not in a stte to rsed but frog has a plan ans ik fillow hom tomoerow

[TheDarkestLight]

The problem with screwing over RLVG is that now he will probably fuck up my shit tonight by giving me a coin, thus invalidating Gamefreak. If you had been smart about this you would have only mentioned it in the reporter chat.

[Frog]

Pretty sure Noctiz was the NK or attention seeker.

And pretty sure the other neutral is a Lost Customer.

This looks pretty damning as I'm searching through the thread.

[Frog]

The problem with screwing over RLVG is that now he will probably fuck up my shit tonight by giving me a coin, thus invalidating Gamefreak. If you had been smart about this you would have only mentioned it in the reporter chat.

Meh. IDGAF. I'm confident in my reads anyway.

[Frog]

So, can I bring up the fact that we don't know who the two other neutrals are?
If one is the Attention Seeker (Jester), one is trying to get lynched.
If one is Lost Customer, it means they have a leader that they're following.

The LC can be really subtle about something, say, an alliance of corrupt cops.


If a Lost Customer had remembered a corrupt cop, would the lost customer's coins be counted towards the corrupt cops win condition?

Voila

[Sen]

This looks pretty damning as I'm searching through the thread.
Yeah, you mentioned a Lost Costumer two or three times in a similar setting, thus one of my alternate hypothesis being that you are the mentor.

Anyway. I'm back from my break. Time to finish reading.

[Frog]

Lost Customer, pick Firebringer as your fucking Guide.


Why do you want me to pick Fire?

Annnnd RLVG can't be Thief :-)

I'm happy now.

[Frog]

I'm only complaining because you think I'm serious with my Lost Customer claim but not with my Jester claim. :(
I'm saying you believe what you want to believe and tune out things you don't think fit your narrative. That's something I've observed over several games actually but I don't think I'd be able to back it up textually.

Besides that, I've been pretty obvious with my alignment in my few posts.



I was reading while at school but couldn't post. I made the posts just after I came back home lol


On Paladin:
He's way too panicky and defensive for me to consider him scum for now. Looks like a town reaction to me considering that many people have pressured him at the same time.

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/34902-S-FM-179-Cop-Out?p=563914&viewfull=1#post563914

Check post #261 from D1. I had already pinned Noctiz as a neut.


There's always the possibility so we must never succumb to this fear! Town stronk! Scum baaaad!

Besides, I like to believe that Paladin did try not to get lynched so I believe the Jester possibility is low

I think you know why this possiblity is low

Yeah honestly I told you I'm Jester but you chose not to believe so now I'm playing it as if I'm town. Your loss for not trusting me

1100-1200's D1 I don't let this read go.

[Frog]

When you return sen I have a question.
Are you the banker?


Unrelated,
I was stolen from last night. That's two robberies.
I attracted multiple nightly attentions last night.

Explain Damus

[Frog]

I'll be back for EOD. I've pretty much exhausted scenarios.

[TheDarkestLight]

Meh. IDGAF. I'm confident in my reads anyway.

This is making me question you Frog.

[Frog]

This is making me question you Frog.

k.

[Sen]

Frog, if everyone (excluding Titus) is telling the truth abouth night actions and feedback, either Toadette was scum, or you are.

Based on claimed night actions by Firebringer and SuperJack, GameFreak cannot be scum.
Based on coin claims, TDL and Damus cannot be scum.

[Sen]

Unless host comes back saying im not getting modkilled i wont be responding.

imma act like im getting modkilled for this oogcom.
You have a lot of information left to give. Particularly explaining your night actions and feedback.
You said you took no action n1 because you wanted the Spree Killer to kill all the other visitors. If you read the Spree Killer's card, you would notice that would've resulted in precisely 0 kills.