M-FM XXIV Civilization Gamethread

[Vine]

Mmm... my mistake, I think. We can't, like... finish construction with only 4 production per town. We'll need, like... 5 production if scums don't contribute.



Role

Construction for



N1
N2


Chief

5ET, 1WC

~8WC



Speaker
5ET, 1WC

~8WC


Marshall
5ET, 1WC

~8WC



Sheriff
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Investigator
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Coroner
6ET

~5WC



Cultural
6ET

~5WC



Doctor
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Secret Service
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Lookout
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC


Detective
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Crafter
5ET, 1 ?

~5WC



Filibuster
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Jailor
5ET, 1 ?

~5WC



Nuclear
5ET, 1 ?

~5WC



Peaceful
5ET, 1 ?

~5WC




WC: World Congress
ET: Extra Terrestial
RA: Residential Area

*apologetic*

[2048]

Mmm... my mistake, I think. We can't, like... finish construction with only 4 production per town. We'll need, like... 5 production if scums don't contribute.



Role

Construction for



N1
N2


Chief

5ET, 1WC

~8WC



Speaker
5ET, 1WC

~8WC


Marshall
5ET, 1WC

~8WC



Sheriff
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Investigator
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Coroner
6ET

~5WC



Cultural
6ET

~5WC



Doctor
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Secret Service
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Lookout
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC


Detective
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Crafter
5ET, 1 ?

~5WC



Filibuster
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Jailor
5ET, 1 ?

~5WC



Nuclear
5ET, 1 ?

~5WC



Peaceful
5ET, 1 ?

~5WC




WC: World Congress
ET: Extra Terrestial
RA: Residential Area

*apologetic*

That's if town goes along with it as well.

'If'

[Vine]

That's if town goes along with it as well.

'If'

Why wouldn't town go along with it?

*puzzled*

[Tapatalk]

I support a fruit ninja lynch.
Insistence on revealing what we've built is a means for warmongers to determine roles.
I DO consider setting yourself to invisible a scummy action.
The lynch priority post isn't so scummy because he's saying we should kill the NeutKiller first but because he's posting something irrelevant under the facade of posting something useful.

Fruit Ninja

Sent from my Holo-Wife using Tapatalk

[2048]

I support a fruit ninja lynch.
Insistence on revealing what we've built is a means for warmongers to determine roles.
I DO consider setting yourself to invisible a scummy action.
The lynch priority post isn't so scummy because he's saying we should kill the NeutKiller first but because he's posting something irrelevant under the facade of posting something useful.

Fruit Ninja

Sent from my Holo-Wife using Tapatalk

Mmmmm.... Now how exactly is being invisible scummy? I can see if someone is asking them a question and them not responding even if they are there is scummy, but that's the only reason I can imagine.

I personally recommend everyone to set their status to invisible to prevent misconceptions on the absence if posts. I can personally voucher for plenty of times I have read this thread and walked away. Does that mean I'm avoiding things? No. Am I lurking? No. It merely means someone has nothing to say at the time and doesn't want that fact to be apparent.

[2048]

Now that bullets are starting to fly, let me attempt to derail this possible mislynch.

[Vine]

Now that bullets are starting to fly, let me attempt to derail this possible mislynch.

_ __________=__
\\@([____]_____()
_/\|-[____]
/ /(( )
/____|'----'
\____/

Can you, like... answer my question?

[4pics1word]

You try to derail it, I will go join it.

Fruit Ninja

[2048]

_ __________=__
\\@([____]_____()
_/\|-[____]
/ /(( )
/____|'----'
\____/

Can you, like... answer my question?

No, I'm trying to avoid your question with my invisibility.




Just kidding, in all seriousness though; I may have my own plans that conflict with yours that I do not wish to share. And I may or may not have decided to go along with it.

[Vine]

*roleplays*

Overseer
At night, you may visit a player to learn where they spent their production points that night. If they spent on multiple constructions, you will only see the first construction. 3 usages.

[Cut the Rope]

Jesus this game is active! I'm going to need to devote a few hours to read it before contributing. You'll probably see me off and on reading the thread to hopefully post something in the lunch time frame.

[2048]

Now previous statements have concerned me.


2048 is probably town as well.

K so I get town read from you and 2048. Kinda scum read from Vine. I will do more when I have access to a computer cAuse I hate making read lists with this damn kindle.

Now....why? I have honestly done nothing pro-town. These statements send red flags all up my spine.

Quizup seems to love labeling certain individuals as Town. Such things are quite dangerous for town as a whole and for me personally.
Just now, what did I do to warrant your trust? Just because I answered a few simple questions that could have been answered by looking at the setup thread? Or is it the mannerism of my speech?
Just how surprised would you be if you found out that I'm the one that killed in the next night but Town is trustful towards be because of your words?
Or how will I look now that you seemed to have buddied me?

Quizup seems to have labelled quite a few 'Townies' even though it's only troll day and we barely know anything.

[2048]

*roleplays*

Overseer
At night, you may visit a player to learn where they spent their production points that night. If they spent on multiple constructions, you will only see the first construction. 3 usages.

If one person looks at my actions it's fine. I just don't want it to be public knowledge, and I'm pretty sure everyone else feels the same way about themselves. Knowing what you are doing before you do it can have others hinder your efforts. Or learning of what you've done can be life threatening.

Think of it as Role Claiming

[Vine]

If one person looks at my actions it's fine. I just don't want it to be public knowledge, and I'm pretty sure everyone else feels the same way about themselves. Knowing what you are doing before you do it can have others hinder your efforts. Or learning of what you've done can be life threatening.

Think of it as Role Claiming

I just, like... wanted everyone to agree to the plan.

*sighs*

[Tapatalk]

Mmmmm.... Now how exactly is being invisible scummy? I can see if someone is asking them a question and them not responding even if they are there is scummy, but that's the only reason I can imagine.

I personally recommend everyone to set their status to invisible to prevent misconceptions on the absence if posts. I can personally voucher for plenty of times I have read this thread and walked away. Does that mean I'm avoiding things? No. Am I lurking? No. It merely means someone has nothing to say at the time and doesn't want that fact to be apparent.
Ah but that first instance is important. There are other ways scum can capitalize on invisibility but I'd prefer not to further incentivize it. Visibility also allows us to establish a pattern for activity as a preventative measure against future invisibility. If I know you're usually viewing the thread at a certain time I be confident you're avoiding posting even if you set yourself to invisible.

I constantly check this thread for updates but only post when I have something worth posting. I do not fear others seeing me online.

Sent from my assistant Jeff using Tapatalk

[Tapatalk]

Quizup seems to have labelled quite a few 'Townies' even though it's only troll day and we barely know anything.

Today is not a troll day. The majority of the posts today have been meaningful discussion in one way or another. While I don't think I've agreed with a single of Vine's suggestions I'm glad that she is making them. Despite her feigned ignorance, I have a town read on her.

Sent from the corpse of my assistant Jeff using Tapatalk

[2048]

I just, like... wanted everyone to agree to the plan.

*sighs*

*pats on head*

not everyone thinks you're evil

[2048]

Ah but that first instance is important. There are other ways scum can capitalize on invisibility but I'd prefer not to further incentivize it. Visibility also allows us to establish a pattern for activity as a preventative measure against future invisibility. If I know you're usually viewing the thread at a certain time I be confident you're avoiding posting even if you set yourself to invisible.

I constantly check this thread for updates but only post when I have something worth posting. I do not fear others seeing me online.

Sent from my assistant Jeff using Tapatalk

Sorry if I feel hatred towards that invisibility bias of yours. Unless rules state otherwise, I am trained to go invisible no matter what; So that bias seems unjust.

[2048]

Mmm... my mistake, I think. We can't, like... finish construction with only 4 production per town. We'll need, like... 5 production if scums don't contribute.



Role

Construction for



N1
N2


Chief

5ET, 1WC

~8WC



Speaker
5ET, 1WC

~8WC


Marshall
5ET, 1WC

~8WC



Sheriff
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Investigator
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Coroner
6ET

~5WC



Cultural
6ET

~5WC



Doctor
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Secret Service
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Lookout
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC


Detective
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Crafter
5ET, 1 ?

~5WC



Filibuster
5ET, 1 RA

~5WC



Jailor
5ET, 1 ?

~5WC



Nuclear
5ET, 1 ?

~5WC



Peaceful
5ET, 1 ?

~5WC




WC: World Congress
ET: Extra Terrestial
RA: Residential Area

*apologetic*

The issue also remains that scum may also follow the plan and receive the top benefits as well, well they can regardless with we follow it or not as well.

If you are handing out a complete chart of what to do, scum may also device what ever means they can to receive everything else.
For example:

You say get ET the first night with everyone's efforts. Scum knows their chances are low at getting ET if they compete against town in terms of equal production. To counter this they would instead go for WC, to out produce everyone else when it does complete. ect ect

[2048]

I'm not saying you are, but it would have been a great tactic for scum to come up with this plan to hurt town in the end.

[2048]

I have a counter suggestion to Vine's.

At least one town should focus purely on a each project. That way it would lower the odds of having scum get their hands on the top spot. Scum may still pull the same tactic, but they would still have to be randomly chosen from at another Town.

[Vine]

The issue also remains that scum may also follow the plan and receive the top benefits as well, well they can regardless with we follow it or not as well.

If you are handing out a complete chart of what to do, scum may also device what ever means they can to receive everything else.
For example:

You say get ET the first night with everyone's efforts. Scum knows their chances are low at getting ET if they compete against town in terms of equal production. To counter this they would instead go for WC, to out produce everyone else when it does complete. ect ect

If they plan to get +2 production or +2 happiness benefits, they are forced to contribute at least 4 production. Their choices are limited, I think...

*sad*

[2048]

I have a counter suggestion to Vine's.

At least one town should focus purely on a each project. That way it would lower the odds of having scum get their hands on the top spot. Scum may still pull the same tactic, but they would still have to be randomly chosen from at another Town.
I meant as in having someone throw 6 at WC, another throw 6 at ET, and another throw 6 at RA

[Vine]

I have a counter suggestion to Vine's.

At least one town should focus purely on a each project. That way it would lower the odds of having scum get their hands on the top spot. Scum may still pull the same tactic, but they would still have to be randomly chosen from at another Town.

Suggestions without details are, like... not useful.

*disappointed*

[2048]

If they plan to get +2 production or +2 happiness benefits, they are forced to contribute at least 4 production. Their choices are limited, I think...

*sad*

What's more powerful to them? +2 production/happiness or 2 members, each with a Project ability?

[2048]

Suggestions without details are, like... not useful.

*disappointed*

The problem is details aren't for certain either. What we know, they know. We would need a plan to counter - counter intelligence.

It is true that following your plan would probably get a townie ET in top. But the other would probably fall to scum.

[2048]

Wow... I posted a lot in the last hour.... Kay, off to bed...

[Vine]

How do you determine who completed a Wonder first? Random, amount spent or closest to completion in the previous night?

[Tapatalk]

I don't understand why hosts don't include this as a resource in their opening post. People without links haven't posted yet.

United Nations (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12759-United-Nations)
Flappy Bird
iFunny
Kik (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12762-Kik)
Bloons TD (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12763-Bloons-TD)
Instagram (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12764-Instagram)
SnapChat (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12765-Snapchat)
Angry Birds (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12766-Angry-Birds)
QuizUp (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12767-Quizup)
Clash of Clans (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12768-Clash-of-Clans)
2048 (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12769-2048)
4pics1word (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12770-4pics1word)
Candy Crush Saga
Cut The Rope (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12772-Cut-the-Rope)
Fruit Ninja (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12773-Fruit-Ninja)
Temple Run (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12774-Temple-Run)
Words with Friends
Tapatalk (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12776-Tapatalk)
Vine (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12777-Vine)
Piano Tiles (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12778-Piano-Tiles)
Fall Down (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12779-Fall-Down)

Sent from the corpse of my assistant Jeff using Tapatalk

[Temple Run]

I have a counter suggestion to Vine's.

At least one town should focus purely on a each project. That way it would lower the odds of having scum get their hands on the top spot. Scum may still pull the same tactic, but they would still have to be randomly chosen from at another Town.
How do we assign who builds what? Without assignments we can lose quite a lot of production

[Quizup]

Lol, so are they just to be defined as colors now? Might as well just number us xD.

Sorry, got a kick out of this one. I assume you are trying to promote activity and get some information flowing with this technic?
Says 2048. And yeah, that's the idea.


What does that accomplish? Asking questions does not meaningfully contribute to the discussion. In fact, it does the opposite: It gives the appearance of contribution while actually providing none. In the best case, the question gets someone else to contribute to the discussion by answering it, but any idiot can just ask other people questions. I would also posit that simply instructing others to "ask more questions" falls into this category as well, perhaps even more so, since now you're not even generating the questions being asked.
I'm getting my null reads to participate more, so I can analyze their question choice and target. Then more of my null reads get to answer those questions. Win-win.


Now previous statements have concerned me.




Now....why? I have honestly done nothing pro-town. These statements send red flags all up my spine.

Quizup seems to love labeling certain individuals as Town. Such things are quite dangerous for town as a whole and for me personally.
Just now, what did I do to warrant your trust? Just because I answered a few simple questions that could have been answered by looking at the setup thread? Or is it the mannerism of my speech?
Just how surprised would you be if you found out that I'm the one that killed in the next night but Town is trustful towards be because of your words?
Or how will I look now that you seemed to have buddied me?

Quizup seems to have labelled quite a few 'Townies' even though it's only troll day and we barely know anything.
I work by process of elimination and I am pretty good at what I do. It's not about being pro-town, it's about being town. Anyway, with two kills non-town kills per night, I have to get my reads out fast or risk them never getting out at all. Your first post cleared in my mind. Your refusal to jump on the Fruit Ninja wagon now is just confirming it. (But seriously, I know you're town, now stop fighting my lynch.)

If Temple Run doesn't start making useful posts, he's next on the list.

[Instagram]

Ok, so I'm starting to reconsider my position on Vine, this latest suggestion seems to be entirely pro warmonger. I'd like to remind everyone that Peaceseeker PRS need only contribute 4 production on Extraterrestrial Colonization. And that the peacefuls like me will make up the difference by contributing 6.

[Quizup]

Wait, what the fuck? The votecounts are in alphabetical order and not the order people voted? Whyyyyyyy.

[Vine]

Ok, so I'm starting to reconsider my position on Vine, this latest suggestion seems to be entirely pro warmonger. I'd like to remind everyone that Peaceseeker PRS need only contribute 4 production on Extraterrestrial Colonization. And that the peacefuls like me will make up the difference by contributing 6.


Extraterrestrial Colonization -- 60 Production
Using salvaged Antebellum technology, scientists can continue to work on colonizing the Moon. When Extraterrestrial Colonization is successfully accomplished, everyone who contributed at least 4 Production will gain +2 Production per night. If Peaceseeker, Top contributor will be confirmed as Peaceseeker. Otherwise, nothing will happen. Top contributor will not be revealed in that case.

Hmph!
Instagram

*scorn*

[Vine]

What will happen to players who never posted?

[Instagram]

Hmph!
Instagram

*scorn*

Oh is that what it is all about?

SETUP

Peaceseekers (14)[/U]
Random Town (George Washington)
Random Town (Queen Elizabeth)
Random Town (Bismarck)
Random Town (Augustus Caesar)
Random Town (Catherine the Great)
Random Town (Cleopatra)
Random Town (Gandhi)
Random Town (Kamehameha)
Random Town (Ramkhamhaeng)
[U]Peaceful (Harun Al-Rashid)
Peaceful (Pachacuti)
Peaceful (Enrico Dandolo)
Peaceful (Wu Zetian)
Peaceful (Pocatello)

*smirk*

[Cut the Rope]

Okay ya'll warning this may be a too long didn't read post. I tried shortening this but this is the best I could do.

About my top three scumspects in no particular order:

Clash of Clans

On the count of three (1....2...3) who is surprised that Clash of Clans changed their vote to be on the popular vote lynch of Fruit Ninja without adding any additional reasons? Not me. Baaaaaaaaa you sheep baaaaaaaaaaa. What's even weirder is that they admitted to the sheep simply because a couple of their town reads are on it.

Even Clash's post about why only my vote was defended is horrible. They said there are only three votes on vine in their post. This was factual at the time. Then why did Vine only defend the second and why did Clash buddy? And why did Vine not defend about Fruit Ninja's? The most likely answer to me is that Clash is a scum partner of Vine's and that Fruit Ninja was chosen to be the lynch so the vote was already weakened.

And I am not answering the question on what a peaceful should do because as I've already said discussing/planning out who does what here IMO is stupid.

With all do respect to your idea, I think I absolutely should have the exact forum. I was counter claiming Vine and needed to demonstrate strength behind it. Based on your response, I think you believe my counter claim as well. If people go there and wish to find my meta in thousands of posts without a userid to back it up, they seriously have way too much time on their hands. The fact you said for me not to further more lends credence to the idea that you and Vine are buddies, and your first vote wasn't serious.

Vine
Enough with the hypothesis and ideas and plans. 0.o
Your latest plan assumes that every single townie lives and that the SK kills a mafia and mafia decides not to kill and that no other role kills or stops production or impacts in any way.
Another reason the plan sucks is that it goes against your desired goal of making sure the win con is met. If everyone followed and the townies at full production on it died, then scum could max out production on one of the wonders and be the top contributor since you have a 5/1 mix on most every hypothesis.
It's also very damaging for the group to come up with a consensus plan of any kind at this stage of the game. As I and numerous people have said but you continue to push hypothesis. This is ridiculous.

Your own arguments look more like your goal is to create chaos rather than post a valid theory on what to do. Quizup even asked you to stop posting about mechanics and do something helpful and you said like....day 2 which isn't even a solid guarantee. (More on this later)

Based on your insistent desire to sow chaos my vote remains. Saying what another player said occurred and then calling it "your plan" leaves a very sore taste in my mouth after asking for your explanation and you refuse.

Quizup

I am even more convinced you are scum after the recent night events.

Almost every post I have seen from you has done some kind of chaos sowing/brimming in the game.

In 163 Quizup votes for Fruit Ninja and then 17 posts later gives a prod for lynching Fruit Ninja instead of contributions with a significant amount of the day left.

Posting a read wall without prompting and then tries to use it as the holy grail to continue discussions.

Most any town player I've played with at least increases suspicion if they are scum read by someone day one and they are town. I posted you as one of my top scumspects and you think I'm town? This leads me to three options here in order of likelihood: 1) The list is fake and that you posted it to try to make it look like you are scum hunting. 2) The list is fake and you wanted to use it as a tool to generate chaos/discussion. 3) The list is truthful you have a weird, rare meta.

Why did you not pressure Vine or say trolling or something when Vine said they'd give you a reason they weren't scum day 2? After that you just drop it? WTF Quizup.

Post 281 has a huge scum slip in it.

I work by process of elimination and I am pretty good at what I do. It's not about being pro-town, it's about being town. Anyway, with two kills non-town kills per night, I have to get my reads out fast or risk them never getting out at all. Your first post cleared in my mind. Your refusal to jump on the Fruit Ninja wagon now is just confirming it. (But seriously, I know you're town, now stop fighting my lynch.)

The most damning scum slip is in the last sentence. The game started off in the Day. No night actions could have taken place. The only person I know is town is me. The rest can change or be confirmed based on evidence.

The second slip assumes two non-town kills per night, which implies the mafia will kill every night. As pointed out previously in the thread, the scum have to deal with the happiness mechanic so this may not always be the case. The doomsday killer must deal with it as well. When guns and other role shenanigans get into play, assuming 2 kills a night is rather crazy. Hell the scum could have a role that kills as well with a special ability, but this looks like a huge slip that this role did not get chosen.

About Third Party
I'm not really able to get a good feel for who the serial killer might be but for now I think the Researcher is Fruit Ninja.

About the Fruit Ninja lynch
I'm really not seeing what is here that is more damning than what is above. Especially since two of my top scumspects helped to steam roll this. Can someone help me to understand why Fruit Ninja should be lynched today?

The first best argument was the 19 which is really more of a researcher tell IMO than a serial killer/scum. The researchers wincon is that one of the two teams wins at the start so having fewer and fewer players like this points to more of a researcher tell. As town we'd want to keep the researcher around as long as possible because they can help our win con in the start of the game.

From what I've seen the second best "argument" is "self-awareness" of which I have seen little to none. Some of that was posted by my top scumspect so I trust it about as far as I can throw it, which means my vote doesn't go on Fruit Ninja.

About hypothesis
Seriously people, just stop with the plans and/or what someone should be doing with production already. We don't know enough to determine what will be helpful so let's not fuck ourselves over before the first night.

[Quizup]

Ugh, Cut The Rope, stop. I know who you are and I know how to read you (and yes, when I saw "I know" I mean I have reasonable certainty). I'm not scum and I'm solving the game. If you can't see how obviously scum Fruit Ninja is, then I can't help you.

[Vine]

Oh is that what it is all about?

SETUP

Peaceseekers (14)[/U]
Random Town (George Washington)
Random Town (Queen Elizabeth)
Random Town (Bismarck)
Random Town (Augustus Caesar)
Random Town (Catherine the Great)
Random Town (Cleopatra)
Random Town (Gandhi)
Random Town (Kamehameha)
Random Town (Ramkhamhaeng)
[U]Peaceful (Harun Al-Rashid)
Peaceful (Pachacuti)
Peaceful (Enrico Dandolo)
Peaceful (Wu Zetian)
Peaceful (Pocatello)

*smirk*

*tears*

unvote



Role

Construction for



N1
N2


Chief

4ET, 2WC

8WC



Speaker
4ET, 2WC

8WC



Marshall
4ET, 2WC

8WC



Sheriff
4ET

4WC



Investigator
4ET

4WC



Coroner

4ET

4WC



Cultural
4ET

4WC



Doctor
4ET

4WC



Secret Service
4ET

4WC



Lookout
4ET

4WC



Detective
4ET

4WC



Crafter

4ET

4WC



Filibuster
4ET

4WC



Jailor
4ET

4WC



Nuclear
4ET

4WC



Peaceful
6ET

4WC




WC: World Congress
ET: Extra Terrestial
RA: Residential Area

[Cut the Rope]

Assuming you're right and you can read me (which I am not convinced of), the "I know" scumslip I referred to wasn't about me being town. That post was about 2048 being town. So can you tell me you "know" with reasonable certainty who 2048 is and what their meta is?

And when my top scumspect tells me to stop pressuring me without responding to the majority of the post or providing anything decent in response, I generally go all holds barred. So I'm bringing out my guns.

[Quizup]

No. But again, when I saw "know" I mean with reasonable certainty. And I am reasonably certain that 2048 is town.

[Cut the Rope]

Right...Next are you gonna sell me that you "know" with reasonable certainty that pigs fly? Til you explain it I ain't anywhere close to buying it.

[Vine]

Vine
Enough with the hypothesis and ideas and plans. 0.o
Your latest plan assumes that every single townie lives and that the SK kills a mafia and mafia decides not to kill and that no other role kills or stops production or impacts in any way.
You, like... never offered any better plans.


Another reason the plan sucks is that it goes against your desired goal of making sure the win con is met. If everyone followed and the townies at full production on it died, then scum could max out production on one of the wonders and be the top contributor since you have a 5/1 mix on most every hypothesis.
I'm still, like... waiting for answers from the host. If it is random, town will have 8 production (able to complete Wonders in 2 days, 8+8=16) versus scum with 6 production (complete in >2 days, 6+8+2=16). And I think I only recommended which Wonders are good for which town roles. I never asked anyone to build any?


It's also very damaging for the group to come up with a consensus plan of any kind at this stage of the game. As I and numerous people have said but you continue to push hypothesis. This is ridiculous.
How so? You are just afraid that town monopolizes all the building, I think...


Your own arguments look more like your goal is to create chaos rather than post a valid theory on what to do. Quizup even asked you to stop posting about mechanics and do something helpful and you said like....day 2 which isn't even a solid guarantee. (More on this later)
And here you are discouraging town from making full use of the mechanics. Hmph!


Based on your insistent desire to sow chaos my vote remains. Saying what another player said occurred and then calling it "your plan" leaves a very sore taste in my mouth after asking for your explanation and you refuse.
It's called asking for commitments.


About hypothesis
Seriously people, just stop with the plans and/or what someone should be doing with production already. We don't know enough to determine what will be helpful so let's not fuck ourselves over before the first night.

Cut the Rope

[Vine]

If scums rush Wonders early and perform night actions, they risk unhappiness, I'm sure...

[Quizup]

Right...Next are you gonna sell me that you "know" with reasonable certainty that pigs fly? Til you explain it I ain't anywhere close to buying it.
Sure, if I have reason to believe it.

If you have questions about any of my reads, all you have to do is ask.

[Vine]

Masterplan for town:
Night 1: Gain +2 production
Night 2: Gain +2 happiness (for those who needed it), and build Wonders
Night 3: Activate vests
Night 4 onwards: Buy vests and build useful buildings

*leads*

[Vine]

Surely you understand that ALL TOWNS should benefit from +2 production for building vests later.
Organized construction will prevent wastage of town production. Surely you know that!

*lectures*

Scums:
Cut the Rope
Fruit Ninja
2048

[Cut the Rope]

Quizup

I don't take much stock in what you are saying right now, but it is day one and I could be wrong so I am going to test your claim that you're open to explaining your reads. Please explain the alignments of the players below as appropriate. Saying that you "know" or are "reasonably certain" is not an answer to me.

1) Fruit Ninja
2) 2048
3) Vine
4) Clash The Clans
5) Cut The Rope

Vine
At least now you are discussing.


You, like... never offered any better plans.


And I agree I have not offered any better plans because to me the best plan is one not shared publically. This has been explained and answered numerous times. I might as well be a broken record. Giving any sort of plan publically only helps scum as I've probably said a million (sarcastic exaggeration) times. Why did you not pressure me earlier when I said I wouldn't offer any plans?



I'm still, like... waiting for answers from the host. If it is random, town will have 8 production (able to complete Wonders in 2 days, 8+8=16) versus scum with 6 production (complete in >2 days, 6+8+2=16). And I think I only recommended which Wonders are good for which town roles. I never asked anyone to build any?


So you publish half baked plans while waiting on an answer from host? Can't then call me scummy when I point out the flaws in your plans then. It makes me a good townie for doing so. You never said User X build a wonder, that I agree but with these hypothesis it damn well implies it.



How so? You are just afraid that town monopolizes all the building, I think...

Asked and answered. Again broken record.
On a general level, posting a hypothesis and having an agreement from town ends up with scum planning off of it.
From the mathematics side, assuming majority agreement to it, if every townie puts in 5 points and X townie disagreers/deaths occur then (14-x) * 5 points get put towards it this becomes 70-5X points of production for every townie that agrees. All scum needs is 3 disagreers/deaths and one scum to contribute 6 points to pick up the top contributor benefits. The entire town has only gotten the minor benefits and scum sits there happy go lucky.


And here you are discouraging town from making full use of the mechanics. Hmph!

On day 1 a claim or mass plan of any kind is utterly crazy. If you wish to call it not making use of the full mechanics then feel free to do so. I prefer to wait until it is actually viable to do so and have some damn good info to do it off of.



It's called asking for commitments.

It's DAY FUCKING ONE. Commitments here made public to scum is just not smart play.



Vine votes for me

Jesus more OMGUSing.....*sigh* I'm not scared of your vote because you did the same to Instagram then unvoted. At least people can now see something other than bullshit plans so hopefully they can see what I see that a lot of this is very scummy.

Also about the whole "master plan" thing:
Yes having more production is good. Not wasting production is good. It's how you're going about this that is entirely fucked up. Day one claims of any kind are ridiculous. I wouldn't rule out trying this in later days when maybe a conf townie flips and we can help them be the best they can be but right now...Just fucking ridiculous.

Also NO ONE can build/buy a vest. A wonder enables production of a gun for 10 points but if anyone gets a vest we are at the mercy of the crafter if one exists based on the random roles.

And yeah let's telegraph to the scums which night we activate our vests on...Then guess what? At best, they use abilities or gain one happiness and don't kill. At worst there wasn't true agreement and the scum use the agreement/disagreement to learn more information and use that info in their kill. There's just some things you don't share until you have a really good plan.

It's about using the mechanics at the right time and having smart play.

[Vine]

Hunger Games -- 50 Production
With a new era comes a new entertainment! When the Hunger Games is established, everyone who contributed at least 4 Production will be able to spend 10 productions to create a one-use vest. Top contributor will earn a one-use gun.

I can see you shiver in fear of invulnerable towns!

*psychic*

[Cut the Rope]

Okay I made a mistake...On my notes I had gun and vest backwards. I'm human. But day one plans are still shit and the majority of my post is still valid. I have no problems admitting when I mess up. *derp*

[Tapatalk]

I can see you shiver in fear of invulnerable towns!

*psychic*

Not viable, using a vest costs happiness. Peacefuls have no way to constantly generate happiness and TPRs would have to forgo their primary night action to use the vest.

Sent from my new assistant Steve using Tapatalk

[Vine]

Not viable, using a vest costs happiness. Peacefuls have no way to constantly generate happiness and TPRs would have to forgo their primary night action to use the vest.

Sent from my new assistant Steve using Tapatalk


Residential Area -- 8 Production
+2 Happiness. Max 3.


Mass Entertainment -- 12 Production
+3 Happiness. Max 1.


Crafter
At night, you may visit only 1 player to hand them either a 1-shot gun or a 1-use vest. Players must give up their night action to use the gun, but may use the vest with their normal night action. You have two charges of guns, and two charges of vests. Getting additional charges from Wonder/Building will add charges to both.

Where is it stated that using vests reduces happiness?

[Vine]

Okay I made a mistake...On my notes I had gun and vest backwards. I'm human. But day one plans are still shit and the majority of my post is still valid. I have no problems admitting when I mess up. *derp*

You are, like... trying to delay town from getting vests, and hoping that town waste production. Scum motivated, I think...

[Tapatalk]

Where is it stated that using vests reduces happiness?


All nations start with 1 Happiness. Using a night action (guns and vests included) lowers your happiness by 1 for each action including additional night actions (ex: Jailors). If you are NOT a Peaceful, you will gain 1 Happiness for nights that you don't take any action. Certain things happen depending on your roles when your Happiness is high, and when your Happiness is low (negative Happiness = positive Unhappiness). It's possible for Happiness to be 0, in which case it'll be referred to as 0 Happiness. There are roles and production factors that can help your happiness levels. Jesters are immune to any happiness benefits or detriments. Happiness effects are NOT cumulative. Unhappiness effects ARE cumulative.

Sent from my still living assistant Steve using Tapatalk

[Vine]

Sent from my still living assistant Steve using Tapatalk

Solved by building Residential Areas and Mass Entertainment.

[Cut the Rope]

Solved by building Residential Areas and Mass Entertainment.


If they are spending 10 production for a vest, when would they have time to build RA's and ME?
And I'm seriously not trying to stop anyone from doing anything. If a player wants a vest they can go for it. I just am against telegraphing our actions as a whole at this point in the game.

[Quizup]

Quizup

I don't take much stock in what you are saying right now, but it is day one and I could be wrong so I am going to test your claim that you're open to explaining your reads. Please explain the alignments of the players below as appropriate. Saying that you "know" or are "reasonably certain" is not an answer to me.

1) Fruit Ninja
2) 2048
3) Vine
4) Clash The Clans
5) Cut The Rope
Fruit Ninja
I wrote out a case against them, if you care to read it here: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449462&viewfull=1#post449462

2048

Yes! the Death and Destruction all start now!
This uses openly scummy wording in a way that scum would be reluctant to do early on.

I think we should consider saving extraterrestrial work because a townfirm is more useful in endgame.


Lies.


As for Vine, it is a call that hurts town more than wars. Sadly it's compelling but dangerous move to mass role call. So no.
I haven't encountered many scum confident and shrewd (or stupid, I guess, though 2048 clearly isn't) enough to challenge me calling them town in this manner, which makes 2048 even more likely to be town.


Will everyone actually do this; is the problem.

In all honesty I probably would not myself.
Openly admitted that he doesn't intend to follow a town plan.


Oh my bad. Thought the day was going to end tonight.
Confusion about the day end time is genuine and kind of unlikely to come from scum.


Now previous statements have concerned me.




Now....why? I have honestly done nothing pro-town. These statements send red flags all up my spine.

Quizup seems to love labeling certain individuals as Town. Such things are quite dangerous for town as a whole and for me personally.
Just now, what did I do to warrant your trust? Just because I answered a few simple questions that could have been answered by looking at the setup thread? Or is it the mannerism of my speech?
Just how surprised would you be if you found out that I'm the one that killed in the next night but Town is trustful towards be because of your words?
Or how will I look now that you seemed to have buddied me?

Quizup seems to have labelled quite a few 'Townies' even though it's only troll day and we barely know anything.
Paranoia about being townread + fear of being shot = town. I could on, but I think this is fairly clear as is.

Vine
Vine using an annoying playstyle while full aware that it's going to piss people off and possibly lead to their lynch. They've also purposely antagonized a fair amount of the playerbase. Normally, I would see the constant mechanics discussion as IIOA (information instead of analysis) done solely to make the poster look good, but that's clearly not the case here. The take away is that they're not afraid of being lynched.

Vine and 2048 have something in common: The don't care how they look to other people.

Clash Of Clans
Clash is only a slight townread.

Read up on the production stuff everyone.
This felt like genuine annoyance at people not understanding the rules, though that could come from scum.

I kind of like the proposal in post 15 as something they thought was undeniably pro-town.


Vine

If I'm reading correctly you're more experienced than you're letting off, and that was a horrible proposal from someone that has experience. You're preying on new players - what if a new player that rolled Peaceful went and claimed because of you? Yeah no
I like how they were the first to actually vote for Vine after Vine claimed Peaceful, as they must know that they'd look very bad if Vine flipped Peaceful.

I like which post he choose to vote Fruit Ninja over, don't like the way he just called me and Instagram town, do like the way he outlined his read change on me.

Cut The Rope
Let me preface this by saying a lot of this is meta from [redacted]. First off, you've been remarkable open about your identity.


Thank God about the editing posts thing...Jesus don't scare me like that.

I won't agree to the plan because I won't reveal what I do. If I spend something on a project and it doesn't come to fruition I just say a few choice words in my head and move on. And like 2048 and myself said, contributing or not contributing to a project, doesn't give any information on alignment.
The first sentence makes you a possible Fruit Ninja scummate, but it seems too open for that. I think it's much more likely that you're town worried about a random modkill.

Then there's a good reaction to the peaceful claim.


Vine, I think this sounds like someone on another forum I know of would do. Are you trying to meta copy? I really want an explanation for this but you may be new. When I first played I did some really stupid stuff so I want to give you a chance.

Notice how the peace seekers are easier to hit :( ...And yes the doomsday killer can still hide. You are relying on people being honest.

@Clash of Clans - I'll look for one. I was trying to avoid changing the account as much as possible.
Damn, look at that towniness. There's paranoia, and a genuine desire to give newbies a chance. Voting Vine afterwards is the logical next step, even if it's wrong. Then it continues in post 130, where you're clearly looking to determine Vine's alignment, not use them as a convenient scapegoat.

I also have trouble believing you don't know who I am, which means you being willing to fight me is a good sign.

Any other questions?

[Cut the Rope]

Fruit Ninja
I wrote out a case against them, if you care to read it here: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449462&viewfull=1#post449462

2048

This uses openly scummy wording in a way that scum would be reluctant to do early on.

I think we should consider saving extraterrestrial work because a townfirm is more useful in endgame.


I haven't encountered many scum confident and shrewd (or stupid, I guess, though 2048 clearly isn't) enough to challenge me calling them town in this manner, which makes 2048 even more likely to be town.


Openly admitted that he doesn't intend to follow a town plan.


Confusion about the day end time is genuine and kind of unlikely to come from scum.


Paranoia about being townread + fear of being shot = town. I could on, but I think this is fairly clear as is.

Vine
Vine using an annoying playstyle while full aware that it's going to piss people off and possibly lead to their lynch. They've also purposely antagonized a fair amount of the playerbase. Normally, I would see the constant mechanics discussion as IIOA (information instead of analysis) done solely to make the poster look good, but that's clearly not the case here. The take away is that they're not afraid of being lynched.

Vine and 2048 have something in common: The don't care how they look to other people.

Clash Of Clans
Clash is only a slight townread.

This felt like genuine annoyance at people not understanding the rules, though that could come from scum.

I kind of like the proposal in post 15 as something they thought was undeniably pro-town.


I like how they were the first to actually vote for Vine after Vine claimed Peaceful, as they must know that they'd look very bad if Vine flipped Peaceful.

I like which post he choose to vote Fruit Ninja over, don't like the way he just called me and Instagram town, do like the way he outlined his read change on me.

Cut The Rope
Let me preface this by saying a lot of this is meta from [redacted]. First off, you've been remarkable open about your identity.


The first sentence makes you a possible Fruit Ninja scummate, but it seems too open for that. I think it's much more likely that you're town worried about a random modkill.

Then there's a good reaction to the peaceful claim.


Damn, look at that towniness. There's paranoia, and a genuine desire to give newbies a chance. Voting Vine afterwards is the logical next step, even if it's wrong. Then it continues in post 130, where you're clearly looking to determine Vine's alignment, not use them as a convenient scapegoat.

I also have trouble believing you don't know who I am, which means you being willing to fight me is a good sign.

Any other questions?


I'm liking a lot of these arguments, but there's also some of the scum points in my argument above that are worrisome to me.

I'm thinking I have an idea with that post. I had some suspicions before but it's starting to get a lot clearer. The fact that you are willing to also discuss the reads with me more than just a "gut" feeling or "knowing" is also a very good sign.

It's more I need to reflect on this and see if you are town and being patient with me or if you are scum trying to deceive me. But definitely have some reservations now. It could also be with how quickly I read the posts some of my instincts could be off.

[Flappy Bird]

FLAP FLAP FLAP FLAP FLAP FLAP FLAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FLAP FLAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FLAP FLAP FLAP FLAP FLAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP

I'm sorry that I -flap- didn't get on -flap flap- sooner; I've been -flap- problems with -flap flap flap- this site along with my entire -flap flap- browser -flap- recently, so I might not -flap- be as active -flap flap- as I'd like to -flap- be. I'll -flap- make a post with -flap flap- my thoughts about -flap- what's gone -flap flap flap flap- on so far soon, -flap-hopefully -flap flap-.

[Quizup]

Bleh, I guess I could take your scum arguments apart point by point. Annoying.

Almost every post I have seen from you has done some kind of chaos sowing/brimming in the game.
I disagree. I think I have been pushing discussion and solving the game.


In 163 Quizup votes for Fruit Ninja and then 17 posts later gives a prod for lynching Fruit Ninja instead of contributions with a significant amount of the day left.

Posting a read wall without prompting and then tries to use it as the holy grail to continue discussions.
And these are problems because?


Most any town player I've played with at least increases suspicion if they are scum read by someone day one and they are town. I posted you as one of my top scumspects and you think I'm town? This leads me to three options here in order of likelihood: 1) The list is fake and that you posted it to try to make it look like you are scum hunting. 2) The list is fake and you wanted to use it as a tool to generate chaos/discussion. 3) The list is truthful you have a weird, rare meta.
Hint: It's number 3. OMGUS is pointless, and wrong does not equal scum.


Why did you not pressure Vine or say trolling or something when Vine said they'd give you a reason they weren't scum day 2? After that you just drop it? WTF Quizup.
I'm not going to get anything out of Vine today short of pushing them to a lynch, which I'm not going to do. They're irritating to deal with and probably town, so I'm leaving them be for now.


The most damning scum slip is in the last sentence. The game started off in the Day. No night actions could have taken place. The only person I know is town is me. The rest can change or be confirmed based on evidence.
Again, know is an exaggeration. "Would bet the game on" is a better way of putting it.


The second slip assumes two non-town kills per night, which implies the mafia will kill every night. As pointed out previously in the thread, the scum have to deal with the happiness mechanic so this may not always be the case. The doomsday killer must deal with it as well. When guns and other role shenanigans get into play, assuming 2 kills a night is rather crazy. Hell the scum could have a role that kills as well with a special ability, but this looks like a huge slip that this role did not get chosen.
The point is that this is a kill heavy setup that makes my dying earlier more likely. Why is that a scum slip?

Now tell me what you think of the arguments against Fruit Ninja.

[Snapchat]

K so I get town read from you and 2048. Kinda scum read from Vine. I will do more when I have access to a computer cAuse I hate making read lists with this damn kindle.

Fruit Ninja

I'll join the fruit ninja train because I think he is scum mostly on behalf of buddying so early and because he doesn't seem to care to help town out a lot. This post was made hours ago. He said 3 reads without any real indication why he believes them and then he never said any others.

[Clash of Clans]

At work, quick thoughts post.

All peacefuls 6 production towards ET Civ.
All investigatives 4 prod towards ET Civ. At least 1 Investigative 2 prod towards New Great Pyramids.

ET Civ is built, conf!town + extra production.

Investigative rushes New Great Pyramids.

Investigative makes a night chat with conf!town. Conf!town releases investigative results etc.

Cons: Takes until D5 for results to be released via day. Multiple Investigatives may waste production for Pyramids. That said, I don't think we'd have more than 2 investigatives in a game this size/setup

Thoughts?

[Clash of Clans]

Fix setup link to go to page 1 instead of 3 please and thanks?

[Snapchat]

I could care less who we vote atm, because nothing is truely known about who is who.

Vine
Sheep vote cause Vine is acting dumb.


Vine seems to be desiring order, more than anything else.

This makes me believe that she is either
1. The Doomsday Killer, and is attempting to single out targets in the most orderly way possible
2. Chief/Speaker/Marshall/Citizen, and is being an idiot.
3. Warmonger, and is attempting to single out targets so the rest of them can prioritize who to kill/target

Ordered in likely hood, from my believe.


Because Vine is a potential threat to our day chat anyways I believe we should lynch her.


I find these series of posts very odd from Fruit Ninja. First he just puts a sheep vote on Vine because he said that she is acting dumb. Then he makes this case about her actually trying to get order and says she has high chance of being a Doomsday Killer from wanting order. Then in 2nd place he puts probably town. I don't think wanting some order in the town in really scummy and I don't get why that is a potential threat to day chat at all if we get organized. The basis for him wanting to get her lynched seems odd and by his chart there is a high chance to hit town with her lynch. She probably isn't a warmonger if Fruit Ninja is which is why he would put Warmongers at number 3 since he knows she isn't. Just my thought, but I think he is just coming up with random stuff to accuse her of being scum for.

[Quizup]

I'm out until after the deadline. Lynch scum for me guys.

[Cut the Rope]

At Flappy Birds -- Really? I can't even hardly read that. Please post without the word flap everywhere.

Quizup

Bleh, I guess I could take your scum arguments apart point by point. Annoying.

I disagree. I think I have been pushing discussion and solving the game.


And these are problems because?


Hint: It's number 3. OMGUS is pointless, and wrong does not equal scum.


I'm not going to get anything out of Vine today short of pushing them to a lynch, which I'm not going to do. They're irritating to deal with and probably town, so I'm leaving them be for now.


Again, know is an exaggeration. "Would bet the game on" is a better way of putting it.


The point is that this is a kill heavy setup that makes my dying earlier more likely. Why is that a scum slip?

Now tell me what you think of the arguments against Fruit Ninja.

About chaos statement -- There is a fine line between provoking discussion and then just creating chaos and trying to steer the game. Again I'm still reviewing your posts and trying to see if I got this wrong.

About the 17 posts section -- Having more discussion almost always benefits town. I suggested you were potential scum before I had to go yesterday. This conversation we are having, regardless of how your or my thoughts pan out, benefits town because it gives more information and has the possibility of correcting me if I am incorrect. Just pushing for a lynch and cutting off conversation makes it easier for scum to hide and people to make mistakes.

Yeah I agree on the not getting anything out of Vine and being irritating. With the positive trolling (I don't know what else to call it) there is some benefit for town or at least is not destructive towards the town's goals. I would call this negative trolling as it has a huge negative impact on town and based on this and prior arguments I think Vine is scum. But I may have to leave it alone if no one else follows along which really irks me.

On the "know" segment - agreed asked and answered.

On the last segment - In my opinion, it's a scum slip for assuming 2 kills a night. I agree this is a kill heavy setup which is why I'm encouraging people to scum hunt and get opinions out there. Most of my analysis I've done averages around 2.25-2.5 kills a night. It's in the implication.

I'm working on a Fruit Ninja response post because I need to re-analyze not just those points but some new ones that have come up as well and take care of a few small things that can't wait until after end of day. I hope to have a response up to that in a couple of hours about 3:30-4 pm CST, that would give enough time for discussion as the day ends at 7 PM CST.

[Fruit Ninja]

Hi guys! I suppose it is time for me to post a defense. (Tpying on this damn thing sucks balls so I will be brief.)

What info do you guys want?

[Fruit Ninja]

Vine doesn't seem that a dummy but I will keep my eye on her unvote

[Kik]

Since I still haven't seen the a answer to this: does spending production use happiness?

BTW, I probably won't be on again before day ends, and I don't trust a lot of the people on the fruit ninja train, so I'll be abstaining for today.

[King Terenas Menethil]

How do you determine who completed a Wonder first? Random, amount spent or closest to completion in the previous night?

Amount spent. If it's tied, random.


What will happen to players who never posted?

On day 1, they will be notified.
Any other day goes by without posting a minimal amount and they will be replaced immediately.


Since I still haven't seen the a answer to this: does spending production use happiness?

BTW, I probably won't be on again before day ends, and I don't trust a lot of the people on the fruit ninja train, so I'll be abstaining for today.

No

[King Terenas Menethil]

Edited one of the answers.

Also, setup link has been fixed.

[Cut the Rope]

Let's see.

Third party hunting is nice for scum because its something they don't have to fake and it's actually in their best interests to have the town kill third parties for them.


Self-aware fluff and a excuse to lurk.


Excessive concern with staying alive. Hint: Town don't have to be alive to win. Scum find that much harder.


1.Explicitly talking about a peaceful claim that hasn't been confirmed is anti town.
2.Useless doubtcasting.


A vote with the implication that you are not responsible for your actions, which allows you to get out of any pressure after Vine flips town.


More self-awareness, as if you're going to get lynched for your schedule.


Oh look, more third party hunting.


"I'm not responsible for this flip, guiz! Vine's a good lynch even if she town (which my earlier analysis actually points to ...)."


Useless speculation and buddying of Snapchat. (Snapchat gets town points for calling you on this.)

Then there's more setup speculation and a random call for activity from 4pics1word.


More selfawareness.

Then there's the fact that you just seem to ignore every accusation and question you don't like. I'm ... not actually sure what to make of that.

Point 1 -- I don't like this priority. Not so much because it has the Doomsday killer on top but because it narrows the focus of town away from any scum. I got a town read from this originally but looking back I should have noticed the typo as an increased sign of desperation. In combination with everything else it definitely highlights either a scum, serial killer, or a researcher role. After all if SK is gone like this post implies and scum gone as this post implies, then Researcher either aids town in the win condition or has turned jester and why hunt for it? Either it's beneficial and helps town or doesn't exist any more.

Point 2 -- Still not getting the self aware thing. I see how Fruit Ninja is attempting a pre deflect which is kind of scummy but I don't see any self awareness here. This kind of deflection before needed implies a power derp of some kind.

Point 3 -- The mod kill thing...I don't like the fact Fruit Ninja suggested they could be mod killed when they couldn't have edited their post. Raising this amount of panic for an illogical reason seems rather dickish to me, but I don't know if it elevates to scum worthy.

Point 4 -- I do not like that Fruit Ninja pointed out a soft claim. The claim itself was very obvious and I don't think Fruit Ninja did too much by pointing this out in advance. Again, just because I don't like it doesn't necessarily make it scummy.

Point 5 -- Sheeping in general irritates me but is very common day 1 and should be pressured to see why. In combination with Fruit Ninja's removal later, this hints that if Fruit Ninja is scum or SK, that they'd want a mislynch of a peaceful player. For a researcher role, this recent unvote doesn't make sense, so that blows that possibility.

Point 6 -- More pre deflecting. There was some pressure I wouldn't have probably thought a thing about it until it was brought up. I've been way too busy to do my usual analysis of the who's online bit to capture any lurkers and with 20 people it is a bit insane. Doing this twice is definitely suspicious.

Point 7 -- Again more rapid posting (if I believe the tone given off). Rapid posts tend to reveal a player's alignment. I like to use rapid posts for pressure a lot to see what people's true intentions are. A lot of Vine's post do focus on the peacefuls explicitly so I can see the reasoning behind fingering her as SK. But posting it in this manner actually seems to me more likely that Fruit Ninja is the SK.

Point 8 -- This post I actually like. I have lead lynches against trolls that refuse to cooperate because they created chaos that helped scum and made it hard for me to read the board. If you're going to play the game, play it to win.

Point 9 -- Mention of the Doomsday killer again. This makes it much more likely Fruit Nina is the SK and is redirection. Also posting illogical night results as our goal really irks me. The only town role that can kill is the Jailer if no lynch or the Secret Service. Having a goal of killing two mafia seems rather difficult. I understand the lynch would be one of those, but two and the SK in a single day seems really far fetched. This seems to me more like an SK's goal is to get an extra kill by mislynching a peaceful and then trying to night kill two mafia.

The buddying has been done by a lot of players *cough*angry birds *cough* and in general is annoying but not something that makes Fruit Ninja more scum than any other player.

Point 10 -- Another pre deflect. Explained already.

Based on this and the rest of Fruit Ninja's posts (which I tried to accumulate into other arguments) would imply that Fruit Ninja is more than likely the SK if not town. But if Fruit Ninja is the serial killer then this implies that Fruit Ninja believed Vine's claim about being peaceful. This doesn't jive with Fruit Ninja's vote as Vine as scum and then the unvote.

This reevaluation of Fruit Ninja is causing me to also question Vine's/Clash's alignments as well. I'm unvoting for now and then doing more analysis of Clash especially to see which way my vote should fall.

Unvote

[Cut the Rope]

At work, quick thoughts post.

All peacefuls 6 production towards ET Civ.
All investigatives 4 prod towards ET Civ. At least 1 Investigative 2 prod towards New Great Pyramids.

ET Civ is built, conf!town + extra production.

Investigative rushes New Great Pyramids.

Investigative makes a night chat with conf!town. Conf!town releases investigative results etc.

Cons: Takes until D5 for results to be released via day. Multiple Investigatives may waste production for Pyramids. That said, I don't think we'd have more than 2 investigatives in a game this size/setup

Thoughts?


Really after I give a lot of big ass posts about not doing this type of suggestions with thoughts? You post this?! Seriously Clash...are you trying to tick me off?! I'm going through the posts like I said, but right now my thoughts of this involve a certain finger on a certain hand in a certain direction. I'll leave the implication of the finger to you.

[iFunny]

Sorry for not posting. I've been a bit busy. I've mostly skimmed everything and I'll reread later when I have more time.

Vine looks like she's Day 1 trolling, although she is posting some good ideas. I'm getting a town read from her so far.

Fruit Ninja seems very scummy and he's our best lynch today. I doubt we'd be able to get everyone on someone else in three hours. Fruit Ninja

We should decide on a plan to use for production. It wouldn't be good for everyone to go off and do whatever.

[Cut the Rope]

As much as this kills me to say, at this point, it's better to go for the Fruit Ninja lynch.

A friend of mine once explained to me that anti-town isn't always scum. It might be just how Vine plays the game. On the other hand, there is also a SK argument can be made for Fruit Ninja. Between me having to head out and only a few hours left in the day and only partially through my analysis of Vine/Clash, there wouldn't be enough time to post another argument and not going on the lynch could result in a no lynch and that is something I definitely don't want.

Either way this feels like a fucking rock in a hard place.

Fruit Ninja

[Tapatalk]

Three hours till the end of the day, people have had 45 hours to post.

Blooms TD (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12763-Bloons-TD) posted two pointless things in the first half hour and hasn't been heard from again, though he was viewing the thread this morning.

Snapchat (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12765-Snapchat) had a particularly long hiatus but at least picked a side on the current lynch. Still woefully behind in terms of contributions.

Angry Birds (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12766-Angry-Birds) made a single post yesterday where he agreed with one person and hasn't been heard from again

4pics1word (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12770-4pics1word) with only 1 real contribution.

Piano Tiles (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12778-Piano-Tiles) with 3 posts, and all of them worthless.

Candy Crush Saga (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12771-Candy-Crush-Saga) hasn't posted anything yet but I see him viewing this thread so he better speak up soon.

Flappy Bird (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12760-Flappy-Bird) basically shitting on the thread

iFunny (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12761-iFunny), has an ok start with his first post, moments before this one but needs to keep it up
and finally WordsWithFriends having posted absolutely nothing.


Then we also have the people that are afraid of having people see them online. The four presently invisible 2048, Fruit Ninja, iFunny and Instagram. Instagram who appeared to have turned himself invisible some time around when he made this post (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449456&viewfull=1#post449456).


These people comprise my current shit-list for taking info from town, either by removing it or by refusing to give it via conversation.

Sent from my still medically living assistant Steve using Tapatalk

[Candy Crush Saga]

Holy shit, the amount of text. Not enough attention span x.x I seriously need to reconsider getting into M-FM's

I think Vine's plan for the most part is a good idea and I will contribute where I can on the Production.

[Instagram]

Anyways just checking in again, I'm a little bit surprised TBH at the weight on the Fruit Ninja train, it makes me much more confident in my read. As for other news, Cut the Rope has attracted my eye, mainly because he seems to be off the wall, over the night I intend to investigate him carefully and see what I can come up with.

P.S. Tapatalk you amuse me.

[2048]

So the Fruit Ninja path got stronger? I can clearly this the lynch going to go through...

[Vine]

Fruit Ninja

Please claim.

*threaten*

[Quizup]

Phonepost~

Tapatalk and iFunny are scum. Discuss.

[2048]

Phonepost~

Tapatalk and iFunny are scum. Discuss.

That is something.

You state a FOS but would rather see others play on about it instead of stating details about why you think so.

[Snapchat]

Phonepost~

Tapatalk and iFunny are scum. Discuss.

iFunny I can definitely see based on his post. He shows how he hasn't read much of the day at all based on the last sentence where he talks about the plan and then he votes Fruit Ninja. Tapatalk mostly right now because he likes iFunny's post by his attitude toward iFunny wasn't harsh like all the others that he gave post reads on. Showing buddying.

[2048]

iFunny I can definitely see based on his post. He shows how he hasn't read much of the day at all based on the last sentence where he talks about the plan and then he votes Fruit Ninja. Tapatalk mostly right now because he likes iFunny's post by his attitude toward iFunny wasn't harsh like all the others that he gave post reads on. Showing buddying.

I can't quite agree with that on based on Tapa's attitude to iFunny. Although only lists iFunny on his 'shit-list' just due to invisibility.

[Tapatalk]

iFunny I can definitely see based on his post. He shows how he hasn't read much of the day at all based on the last sentence where he talks about the plan and then he votes Fruit Ninja. Tapatalk mostly right now because he likes iFunny's post by his attitude toward iFunny wasn't harsh like all the others that he gave post reads on. Showing buddying.
I've reread what I've written and I can definitely see my post on iFunny being interpreted as thinly veiled praise.

iFunny submitted his first post as I was about to submit mine. I read if and was glad to see something of substance rather than "I'm here more posts to come later". He needs to post a lot more substantive posts to make it off of the first part of my shit list. While being on the second part of my shit list for being invisible.

Sent from my vegetative assistant Jeff using Tapatalk

[Snapchat]

I've reread what I've written and I can definitely see my post on iFunny being interpreted as thinly veiled praise.

iFunny submitted his first post as I was about to submit mine. I read if and was glad to see something of substance rather than "I'm here more posts to come later". He needs to post a lot more substantive posts to make it off of the first part of my shit list. While being on the second part of my shit list for being invisible.

Sent from my vegetative assistant Jeff using Tapatalk

Ok, but iFunny still did just vote on Fruit Ninja without a read and his last part of the post basically said he hasn't read much at all since there have been plans for production. Not saying he is 100% scum, but it is still scummy.

[King Terenas Menethil]

NIGHT 1 - ADJOURNMENT

Tensions during the First Meeting of New York soared high as leaders quickly found reason to instigate with other leaders. It was apparent that none of us had any more charisma and diplomacy than a standard howler monkey. Fruit Ninja was especially toxic to the discussion and a series of legislations were proposed to cripple his country. The meeting was adjourned before enough votes could be gathered, however.

Words with Friends was feeling sick. His voice was gone so he couldn't talk the entire day. Realizing the importance of communication for international cooperation, he replaced himself out with another delegate.

Words with Friends has been replaced.

Living players:
Flappy Bird
iFunny
Kik
Bloons TD
Instagram
SnapChat
Angry Birds
QuizUp
Clash of Clans
2048
4pics1word
Candy Crush Saga
Cut The Rope
Fruit Ninja
Temple Run
Words with Friends
Tapatalk
Vine
Piano Tiles
Fall Down

Graveyard:
None

Night 1 will end at: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=June+20+5%3A00+PM+PST

[King Terenas Menethil]

DAY 2 - JAXA Headquarters, Tokyo

http://www.amerika.org/wp-content/uploads/lunar-terraforma.bmp
Behold the power of cooperation. Mankind trusted one another enough to work on a project that would truly benefit the future. Extraterrestrial Colonization was a resounding success and will stand as a symbol of unity for as long as Earth thrives with life. Every country that contributed an honest effort made scientific advancements that will permanently bolster their output. The leader of this project, Candy Crush Saga, was recognized by all as the world's greatest Peaceseeker.

As our leaders watched the first spaceship fly off into the final frontier, they felt hope that had only been felt before the Great Mistake. Another world meeting was called at the JAXA Headquarters in Tokyo to celebrate the occasion and discuss further affairs.

It was a glorious day...and then the reality of the situation set in again. They were still under threat from the Warmongers and Doomsday.

Tapatalk never showed up to Tokyo. In fact, he never made it home from New York. His plane was intercepted after Day 1 by a band of terrorists and destroyed. No bodies were recovered but the salvaging team found paintings and artifacts that gave definitive proof that Tapatalk was Cleopatra, the Cultural. His office also exploded in the dead of night, leaving nothing but a crater. Whoever did this must have assumed he'd still be there.


Tapatalk was killed by the Warmongers and Doomsday. His role was Cleopatra, the Cultural.
Taptalk's last will:

My Night Actions: Remember, a person I repel only gets role blocked if they were originally targeting me.
Night 1: Repelled Angry Birds | Attracted Vine



Players ordered from more scummy to less scummy


Angry Birds (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12766-Angry-Birds) - only 1 mostly shit post, was viewing thread at 3 and 5 hours before the day ended yet did not vote nor offer any input on the topic
Fruit Ninja (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12773-Fruit-Ninja) - came damn close to being lynched and didn't offer and sort of defense or trying to offer reads to town before he died
Flappy Bird (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12760-Flappy-Bird) - only 1 super shitty post, push hard to post more substantive posts.
Bloons TD (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12763-Bloons-TD) - only 2 super shitty posts, push hard to post more substantive posts
Piano Tiles (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12778-Piano-Tiles) - only 3 super shitty posts, push hard to post more substantive posts
Fall Down (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12779-Fall-Down) - didn't do anything in the last 6 hours of the day, posted about pressure votes being good but never voted. As far as I can tell putting faux pressure on Fruit.
iFunny (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12761-iFunny) - sSo far only 1 post, won't call it super shit since it had content but not great either. Set himself to invisible.
Kik (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12762-Kik) - 50% chance of scum; his posts are pretty fluffy and I think he's made himself invisible like some of the others on my shit list.
Instagram (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12764-Instagram) - my only real complaint against instagram is him being invisible
4pics1word (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12770-4pics1word) - shit posts, make him post more, but he voted on someone so that's something(when over half the players didn't vote anyone)
QuizUp (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12767-Quizup) - seems to be depending on others to provide reason for the people he labels scum
Candy Crush Saga (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12771-Candy-Crush-Saga) - I honestly believe him to be an apathetic loser, probably peaceful.
2048 (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12769-2048) - I have a lot of mixed feelings about 2048
SnapChat (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12765-Snapchat) -
Vine (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12777-Vine) - I wouldn't trust Vine to keep a pet rock; whether its plain incompetence or veiled malice I'm not certain.
Temple Run (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12774-Temple-Run) -
Clash of Clans (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12768-Clash-of-Clans)
Cut The Rope (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12772-Cut-the-Rope) - Nothing really to say here


Tapatalk (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12776-Tapatalk) - flipped town

United Nations (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/12759-United-Nations)
Words with Friends (no Posts) - recently replaced



Sent from the chip in my brain using Tapatalk

Living players [19]:
Flappy Bird
iFunny
Kik
Bloons TD
Instagram
SnapChat
Angry Birds
QuizUp
Clash of Clans
2048
4pics1word
Candy Crush Saga
Cut The Rope
Fruit Ninja
Temple Run
Words with Friends
Vine
Piano Tiles
Fall Down

Graveyard [1]:
Tapatalk - Cleopatra, Cultural (Died Night 1)

10

Day 2 will end at this time: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=June+22+5%3A00+PM+PST

[Clash of Clans]

Shame on you for not having a last will. I'm surprised considering the strength of your posting.

Everyone make sure to write your damn last wills.

No feedback here.

[2048]

So Candy is confirmed town....might be good to have a doc on him.

[Clash of Clans]

And by you I was talking to Tapatalk, though that should be obvious.

All hail Candy Crush, our glorious leader!

[Words with Friends]

last will? can we try to figure out who is who?

[Clash of Clans]

So Candy is confirmed town....might be good to have a doc on him.

Why are you stating an idea that's blatantly obvious?

Why are you openly PR directing?

Why have you not claimed whether or not you have feedback to share?

[King Terenas Menethil]

last will? can we try to figure out who is who?

Poker face. Edited day opener.
No COM Hunting.

[2048]

Vine was attracted and Tapatalk died...

Why are you stating an idea that's blatantly obvious?

Why are you openly PR directing?

Why have you not claimed whether or not you have feedback to share?

I have nothing worth sharing

[Clash of Clans]

Investigatives who helped build the Great Extra-Terrestrial Civilization, I now draw your attention to the New Great Pyramids.
You will beat anyone who spent all their N1 production on the Pyramids, and you may be able to set up a night chat with Candy Crush or another player you trust.

I think it would be a wise idea for everyone else to shuttle production into the Hunger Games tonight. There's the possibility of buying Vests which helps us more than scum. Additionally, it' revealed who gets the one-shot gun so we could theoretically use it as a second lynch by voting on who they shoot by day OR Candy Crush if alive dictates who to shoot.

Thus, we can use TWO lynches for the next day/night cycle and gain a bunch of one-time vests.

Thoughts?

[2048]

Vine, care to share what kinda of feedback Tapatalk would have received if you visited him?

[Clash of Clans]

Shame on you for not having a last will. I'm surprised considering the strength of your posting.

Everyone make sure to write your damn last wills.

No feedback here.

I retract my public shaming, and point it at the mods who forgot to post the last will :P

[Words with Friends]

Clash talking about which path to pursue is not the best for production.

[2048]

We went over this Day 1, it only allows for scum to counter it.

[Words with Friends]

should we assume then all scum have +2 production then?

[Clash of Clans]

Clash talking about which path to pursue is not the best for production.

So tell me why. What's wrong with what I proposed? Discrediting a player or proposal without justification is wasting discussion time AND possibly pushing players away from optimal tactics


We went over this Day 1, it only allows for scum to counter it.

There's 4 of them (+1 possibly +1) and 14 of us. If there's a counter that makes a plan useless, we should be able to think of it.

Or are you telling me you think the ETC was a bad idea? Please answer with an explanation

[Words with Friends]

vests only help players who need to survive. town don't need to survive. scum do. scum with additional production build more wonders. the game is half about info as much as it is optimization. the last two international wonders do as much to help scum as town if not more.

Vote: Clash of Clans

[2048]

There's 4 of them (+1 possibly +1) and 14 of us. If there's a counter that makes a plan useless, we should be able to think of it.

Counter-argument. You stated only the investigative roles should for it. Now you are saying all 14 should?



Or are you telling me you think the ETC was a bad idea? Please answer with an explanation
I was stating how public displaying what production intentions should be to scum as a bad idea. I never even mentioned ETC, however ETC was great that to confirmed a town instead of scum getting their hands on it.

[2048]

Investigatives who helped build the Great Extra-Terrestrial Civilization, I now draw your attention to the New Great Pyramids.
You will beat anyone who spent all their N1 production on the Pyramids, and you may be able to set up a night chat with Candy Crush or another player you trust.

Incorrect, if they put 2 in pyramids and 4 in ETC last night, then if they pool the rest of their production into pyramids for the next two nights compared to a single nations pooling all of their production into pyramids since D1:

Both nations would have put forth a max of 18 production towards Pyramids

[Piano Tiles]

So are we still talking about this production stuff? So far that's what I see. Personally it make just about no sense to me right now. Does someone want to actually explain how it exactly works or should I be here acting like I know what this discussion is about?

[2048]

So are we still talking about this production stuff? So far that's what I see. Personally it make just about no sense to me right now. Does someone want to actually explain how it exactly works or should I be here acting like I know what this discussion is about?

*twitch*

The production is what's making this M-FM unique.... It's kinda bad as saying that you don't know what any of the roles are...

[Clash of Clans]

vests only help players who need to survive. town don't need to survive. scum do. scum with additional production build more wonders. the game is half about info as much as it is optimization. the last two international wonders do as much to help scum as town if not more.

Vote: Clash of Clans

...sigh

Use vote tags to vote someone on here. [vote]Clash of Clans[ /vote] but with a correct closing bracket.

Vests can prevent scumkills. Town are much more likely to be hit at night than scum. Vests do not affect lynches at all -> a lynched player with a vest is lynched.

[Words with Friends]

Clash of Clans

it's trading a gunshot for the opportunity for all scum to vest. the doomsday killer just becomes an enemy solely to town. your plan sucks. first you propose a plan that likely gives all scum bonus production and now you want to give them vests. i don't care for you. can you start to scumhunt rather than purely setup speculate?

[Clash of Clans]

Counter-argument. You stated only the investigative roles should for it. Now you are saying all 14 should?


I was stating how public displaying what production intentions should be to scum as a bad idea. I never even mentioned ETC, however ETC was great that to confirmed a town instead of scum getting their hands on it.

14 players commenting on counters to plans. Not 14 players building the ETC last night. Are you selectively reading my posts?

[Clash of Clans]

Counter-argument. You stated only the investigative roles should for it. Now you are saying all 14 should?


I was stating how public displaying what production intentions should be to scum as a bad idea. I never even mentioned ETC, however ETC was great that to confirmed a town instead of scum getting their hands on it.

Forgot to add: you can specifically state how a plan to coordinate during the day is bad. If it's bad we coordinate something during the day, then we just won't do it.

That's the entire point of discussing plans

[Cut the Rope]

WARNING LONG ASS POST AHEAD -- THIS IS THE SUMMARY

Based on my calculations during the night phase, it is my opinion that the priority needs to be to focus on Instagram, Fruit Ninja, or Clash of Clans for the lynch today. The analysis of some postings also reveal a likely Culturalist for the mafia scum or a role that they will have production hunt instead of power usage. Mafia scum is also very unlikely to have a detainer.
We also have a bit of a dilemma. We did EXACTLY a play that helps scum. The serial killer and mafia optimal play is to hunt power roles for town. If a mislynch occurs on a peaceful it is disastrous to town, so that is why any evil group with a kill does not want to hit a peaceful. This is providing scum with a fucking road map to victory people. IT IS MY OPINION THAT: NO MASS PLANS FOR PRODUCTION SHOULD BE DISCUSSED APPROVED OR ACCEPTED AT LEAST ENOUGH MAFIA ARE DEAD OR DESPERATION TIME.

For more details/reasons, please see the next post of mine which I will have encapsulated in spoiler tags due to its length, assuming spoiler tags work on this forum. It may take me about 15-20 minutes to format because this forum does tags weird. Since invisible ink is allowed, I'm pretty sure spoiler tags would be, and this is done for ease of the game. It’s my opinion that the lynch should be between Fruit Ninja, Clash of Clans, or Instagram. My gut and mathematics is screaming Instagram right now and that is why the vote is below on them.


Instagram

[Piano Tiles]

*twitch*

The production is what's making this M-FM unique.... It's kinda bad as saying that you don't know what any of the roles are...

We need an FM named twitch now.

But yes I didn't really even look at setup, much less try to understand it atm.

But is it also sad I find your pissing contest with CoC rather amusing?

[Clash of Clans]

Clash of Clans

it's trading a gunshot for the opportunity for all scum to vest. the doomsday killer just becomes an enemy solely to town. your plan sucks. first you propose a plan that likely gives all scum bonus production and now you want to give them vests. i don't care for you. can you start to scumhunt rather than purely setup speculate?

I'll play exactly as I feel like, thanks.

Did you miss the part where I asked for thoughts? Or are you going to just decide I'm scum because you specifically don't like a plan I proposed? At least you're explaining why now.

Why do you think scum would build the International Project in that case? And then spend 10 production towards a vest? Wouldn't that be un-optimal if they have night actions, happiness to worry about, etc.?

The point of the first plan was 2 additional production for citizens. This one can vest citizens. The slower scum kill, the more investigation results, the more lynches, etc.

[2048]

But is it also sad I find your pissing contest with CoC rather amusing?

But I oh so love pissing contests. Wanna challenge me to whom is farthest?

[2048]

WARNING LONG ASS POST AHEAD -- THIS IS THE SUMMARY

Based on my calculations during the night phase, it is my opinion that the priority needs to be to focus on Instagram, Fruit Ninja, or Clash of Clans for the lynch today. The analysis of some postings also reveal a likely Culturalist for the mafia scum or a role that they will have production hunt instead of power usage. Mafia scum is also very unlikely to have a detainer.
We also have a bit of a dilemma. We did EXACTLY a play that helps scum. The serial killer and mafia optimal play is to hunt power roles for town. If a mislynch occurs on a peaceful it is disastrous to town, so that is why any evil group with a kill does not want to hit a peaceful. This is providing scum with a fucking road map to victory people. IT IS MY OPINION THAT: NO MASS PLANS FOR PRODUCTION SHOULD BE DISCUSSED APPROVED OR ACCEPTED AT LEAST ENOUGH MAFIA ARE DEAD OR DESPERATION TIME.

For more details/reasons, please see the next post of mine which I will have encapsulated in spoiler tags due to its length, assuming spoiler tags work on this forum. It may take me about 15-20 minutes to format because this forum does tags weird. Since invisible ink is allowed, I'm pretty sure spoiler tags would be, and this is done for ease of the game. It’s my opinion that the lynch should be between Fruit Ninja, Clash of Clans, or Instagram. My gut and mathematics is screaming Instagram right now and that is why the vote is below on them.


Instagram

And is everyone ignoring the possibility that Vine killed Tapa?

[Cut the Rope]

Based on some of the prior posts suggesting what we should and should not do with production yesterday. I’m still of the opinion it’s not time yet, and I am wanting to take the time to explain in further detail today now that there’s hard evidence.
Overall 9 players concretely agreed that having some form of planned production was a good idea to benefit town. I did not count anything that could be construed as a maybe, so the number could actually be higher than this. (I know we have two confirmed power roles dead but the math was done during the night.)
For specific posts see the table below: The names are in post quantity from day 1 order
Player Name Agree Post Number
2048 Yes 120
Vine Yes Many

Fruit Ninja Yes 212
TapATalk Yes 16
Instagram Yes 106
Clash of Clans Yes 15,Many
Temple Run Yes 280
iFunny Yes 324
Candy Crush Saga Yes 327

With 4 mafia scum in play what are the odds that scum did not try to get town to go along with a planned production
There is an 89.7 percent chance (rounding to 90 for easy numbers) that there is at least 1 scum in those 9 players. (Will discuss the night flip reducing this by two in a bit) Because of this scum likely wants or desires a map so they can leverage it to their best advantage. If they have a map they would likely have wonder/IP based goals to do. This would mean a Culturalist is likely for the mafia scum. If a Culturalist is not present then they likely have a role that would focus on wonder production in the early going. With the mechanics this makes sense too because if all of the mafia scum go kill/power crazy they’d fall victim to unhappiness rather quickly and shoot themselves in the foot. It’s also unlikely that the scum have a detainer else the optimal play would be to have an additional kill. Therefore I lagged behind in posting today to see who would discuss more production further and low and behold it is a top scumspect of mine.
Now, we start to take into account that TapATalk and Candy Crush Saga are both town. This means that we should almost absolutely have a lynch today between these 7 players that agreed that the production is a good idea.
My top three priorities for this are Fruit Ninja/Instagram/Clash of Clans, but Vine is also acceptable unless they get their butt in gear and start playing right. My gut read says town is possible and it is a gambit but my logic side says they are pretty scummy. If my gut did not ping for Vine being town right now they’d still be at the top.
My readwall for these 9 players from top (town) to bottom (scum) of these nine players is:
Candy Crush Saga
TapATalk
2048
Temple Run
iFunny
Vine
FruitNinja/Instagram/Clash of Clans

For Fruit Ninja – The arguments posted before are starting to gain more credence on me that they are the SK now that I’ve had time to sleep on it.

For Clash of Clans – The introductory vote at the beginning on Vine and then joining the Fruit Ninja lynch at the start because two of their buddies were on it and unable to give solid reasons as to why until much later. When prompted, they literally said “Idk.” , with a fluffy reason after it. Also looking at who the two buddies are: Instagram and Quizup this doesn’t surprise me. Quizup was willing to have an honest discussion and provoke thought into who is and is not scum so they are likely town. Instagram I would have said was likely town until their last post of the day. If Clash of Clans is mafia scum then it likely follows that Fruit Ninja is not mafia scum, but possibly the serial killer. If Clash of Clans is mafia scum then I’d look doubly hard at Instagram.

For Instagram – They started off agreeing with the ridiculously horrible plan and claiming peaceful. Then they come back on the last post and say they are investigating me because I’m all over the place. It’s day 1. I’m supposed to prod and pressure and question as many people as reasonably possible. That’s scumhunting 101. Being all over the place is a good thing it shows an open mind. Unless a player is me or mod confirmed town (like Candy Crush Saga/TapATalk) they have a chance of being scum.
They also called me a male. My introduction was, in part, establishing that I’m female. It’s pretty hard to miss. So they read my posts enough to judge that I’m “all over the place”, but not notice I’m a female? This seems fishy. Combining that with the investigating me which is a contradiction of prior claim of peaceful as well as it should be suicide and almost anti-win-con to power role claim this early as mafia scum should be targeting and/or killing Instagram today if Instagram is alive today, I would advocate their lynch.
It’s especially telling that in my feedback, nothing happened. Zilch nada all I got was happiness and a statement saying nada happened. So either there is a scientist role in scum that manipulated my feedback OR Instagram is a liar. I’m leaning strongly towards the second.

I would like your feedback on these ideas. I’m really thinking that we should start by pressuring Instagram or Clash of Clans, and not Fruit Ninja, even though Fruit Ninja was almost the lynch. The reason being is because a day 1 lynch is almost always a townie of some kind, from a mathematical standpoint. While Fruit Ninja still has a lot of logic that they are the serial killer, and if we decide to lynch Fruit Ninja that’s still a good play but if we have more discussion the better it turns out for town.

[Cut the Rope]

And is everyone ignoring the possibility that Vine killed Tapa?

I'm not ignoring the possibility 2048. It's just the mathematics and the introduction lead me in a different way. If you look at the reasons post I just did, Vine is still pretty scummy on my list. I just think there are better plays. Make sense?

[Piano Tiles]

But I oh so love pissing contests. Wanna challenge me to whom is farthest?

YES! Then we can compare dicks with him and then maybe circle jerk. I bet I would go off last (unless if someone starts making noise).

[iFunny]

iFunny I can definitely see based on his post. He shows how he hasn't read much of the day at all based on the last sentence where he talks about the plan and then he votes Fruit Ninja. Tapatalk mostly right now because he likes iFunny's post by his attitude toward iFunny wasn't harsh like all the others that he gave post reads on. Showing buddying. I saw there were plans, but what I meant is that we had to actually AGREE on a plan, which hadn't happened. I skimmed what happened, not ignored it.


I've reread what I've written and I can definitely see my post on iFunny being interpreted as thinly veiled praise.

iFunny submitted his first post as I was about to submit mine. I read if and was glad to see something of substance rather than "I'm here more posts to come later". He needs to post a lot more substantive posts to make it off of the first part of my shit list. While being on the second part of my shit list for being invisible.

Sent from my vegetative assistant Jeff using TapatalkI didn't switch to invisible because I was scared of people seeing when I was inactive. I switched because that's what I always do. I'm sorry if you don't like that.


Ok, but iFunny still did just vote on Fruit Ninja without a read and his last part of the post basically said he hasn't read much at all since there have been plans for production. Not saying he is 100% scum, but it is still scummy. I didn't have a whole lot of time to post, so I couldn't type a giant post. I said I found him scummy, and I do. I just wasn't able to write that in great detail. For the second part, what I said above.

[2048]

You may have mis-read my post #120. That was not in reference for planned production, but liking the idea of denying scum the chance of powers

[Piano Tiles]

Dat wall post. I think my brain died a little trying to understand that.

[Words with Friends]

I'll play exactly as I feel like, thanks.

Did you miss the part where I asked for thoughts? Or are you going to just decide I'm scum because you specifically don't like a plan I proposed? At least you're explaining why now.

Why do you think scum would build the International Project in that case? And then spend 10 production towards a vest? Wouldn't that be un-optimal if they have night actions, happiness to worry about, etc.?

The point of the first plan was 2 additional production for citizens. This one can vest citizens. The slower scum kill, the more investigation results, the more lynches, etc.

i am giving you thoughts.

scum likely saw the success of the wonder, and gained +2 production throughout. Spend 4, gain plus 2 forever. duh. production only tanks if scum act too much. duh.

then hunger games, really? town gets collective gun. if it misses, we trade giving scum ability to vest for a one shot vig. puhleeze.

[Words with Friends]

cut the rope, why is Fruit Ninja having a possible sk? I didn't see the usual wagon+counterwagon and rvs... why?

[Cut the Rope]

You may have mis-read my post #120. That was not in reference for planned production, but liking the idea of denying scum the chance of powers

It's quite possible that I may have misread/misunderstood it. You were a top town read for me when I posted that. But I also ask why defensive? No one has thought you were scum at this point. Still I think you're town and that's an honest response, but no longer quite at the top.

Piano Tiles -- Yeah my brain works different than some people's. I'm not the best reader of people, so I counter that by using my mathematics strengths. It's understandable that that may hurt to understand but that's also why I put it in spoiler tags so the thread can continue.

Words With Friends -- For ease of everyone's reading I will refer you to: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449564&viewfull=1#post449564

[2048]

It's quite possible that I may have misread/misunderstood it. You were a top town read for me when I posted that. But I also ask why defensive? No one has thought you were scum at this point. Still I think you're town and that's an honest response, but no longer quite at the top.

Hmmmm, didn't think I was being defensive.

I didn't like the way it sounded like you were undermining me as if I've been agreeing towards a production plan for town when this whole time I've been trying to prevent one.
I don't care for others altering my words. That's what I do, not what others to me....

[Kik]

FM Vine

Still think he's scum and as I mentioned yesterday, I think his flip will give us information about Fall Down's alignment as well. Plus, a number of other people suspect Vine so I don't think it will be too difficult for us to get the votes.

Oh, and nothing happened to me last night.

[Vine]

I'm Peaceful.
Was lured.
Current happiness +2.

*disappointed*

[Kik]

Oh wait, I forgot we don't have "FM" in our names.

Vine

there we go.

[Cut the Rope]

Hmmmm, didn't think I was being defensive.

I didn't like the way it sounded like you were undermining me as if I've been agreeing towards a production plan for town when this whole time I've been trying to prevent one.
I don't care for others altering my words. That's what I do, not what others to me....

I'm sorry you don't like that 2048 but I'm not apologizing for what I thought was accurate at the time. Like I said the above is based on probability. There are going to be some town players in that group. My reads can and do change as the game goes along. I'm not trying to alter your words, you are stating that you are trying to stop town derp congrats.

The reason I had you as a yes is because the post read like you were agreeing to help build a wonder. If I misunderstood, then I did, but pronouns be a bitch to me and I hate them. (One of the many reasons my posts are wordy.) That was my thought process. There is an interpretation element. The main idea is that we should be voting for likely scum that helped push the build quite possibly the stupidest thing for town to build at the beginning of the game.

[Vine]

I don't know how I can defend myself, so...

Last will:


Reads

Not enough info
Strong town
Leaning town
Leaning scum
Strong scum



Players

Posts
Impression
Voted
Role









Flappy Bird
1
Made it known that he will only troll




iFunny
1
Busy and requested for town organization
Fruit Ninja



Kik

14
Lacked sample size, buddied Fall Down




Bloons TD
2
Made it known that he doesn't care




Instagram
16
Prevented misinformation
Fruit Ninja



SnapChat
7
Lacked sample size
Fruit Ninja



Angry Birds

1
Anti-day 1 discussion

Warmonger


QuizUp
40
Promoting discussion but ignored mechanics altogether
Fruit Ninja
Doomsday killer


Clash of Clans
13
A busy person who tried to organize town
Fruit Ninja



2048
52
Almost all posts are neutral-leaning fluff without content

Warmonger


4pics1word

3
Supported town organization
Fruit Ninja



Candy Crush Saga

1
Voiced support for town organization




Cut The Rope

27
Against organizing town action and full of discredits
Fruit Ninja
Warmonger


Fruit Ninja
39
Promoting apathy in day chat

Warmonger


Temple Run
9
Giving opinions, pro-town organization




Words with Friends
0
Didn't post




Tapatalk

24
Organized town and prevented misinformation
Fruit Ninja



Vine
44
Me!
Fruit Ninja



Piano Tiles
3
Made it known that he does not want to contribute




Fall Down
24
Participated in discussion





2048
A total of 52 posts, almost all which are fluff without content.
Did not vote Fruit Ninja.
Tried to discourage concerted town production by providing vague alternatives (#269-277)

Fruit Ninja
Promoting apathy in day chat.
39 posts of low value.

Angry Birds
Tried to discourage discussion with his single post.

Cut The Rope
Extremely negative against anyone organizing town actions
Trying to discredit good ideas
Tried to expose players who acted dumb, on day 1
Unnecessarily unvoted Fruit Ninja with strange reasoning, only to revote a few post later, after iFunny sheeped (#322-325).

QuizUp
Spent 40 posts promoting discussion with minimal input from himself.
Not afraid at dying at night, from his hyper pro-town act.
The Doomsday Killer!


Actions

N1: 6 production to ET


Explanation

1. Scums don't like newbies who claimed their town role, because everyone will believe the newbie, as if the newbie had a day-reveal role.
2. Proposing good but subpar ideas stimulate discussion and separates the real town from the fakes. Real town will correct your mistakes.


Farewell note

I do hope my Vengeful Thorn hits!

http://i11.static.olcdn.com/cms/201301/31/MzA4135961426874.jpg

[Clash of Clans]

Based on some of the prior posts suggesting what we should and should not do with production yesterday. I’m still of the opinion it’s not time yet, and I am wanting to take the time to explain in further detail today now that there’s hard evidence.
Overall 9 players concretely agreed that having some form of planned production was a good idea to benefit town. I did not count anything that could be construed as a maybe, so the number could actually be higher than this. (I know we have two confirmed power roles dead but the math was done during the night.)
For specific posts see the table below: The names are in post quantity from day 1 order
Player Name Agree Post Number
2048 Yes 120
Vine Yes Many

Fruit Ninja Yes 212
TapATalk Yes 16
Instagram Yes 106
Clash of Clans Yes 15,Many
Temple Run Yes 280
iFunny Yes 324
Candy Crush Saga Yes 327

With 4 mafia scum in play what are the odds that scum did not try to get town to go along with a planned production
There is an 89.7 percent chance (rounding to 90 for easy numbers) that there is at least 1 scum in those 9 players. (Will discuss the night flip reducing this by two in a bit) Because of this scum likely wants or desires a map so they can leverage it to their best advantage. If they have a map they would likely have wonder/IP based goals to do. This would mean a Culturalist is likely for the mafia scum. If a Culturalist is not present then they likely have a role that would focus on wonder production in the early going. With the mechanics this makes sense too because if all of the mafia scum go kill/power crazy they’d fall victim to unhappiness rather quickly and shoot themselves in the foot. It’s also unlikely that the scum have a detainer else the optimal play would be to have an additional kill. Therefore I lagged behind in posting today to see who would discuss more production further and low and behold it is a top scumspect of mine.
Now, we start to take into account that TapATalk and Candy Crush Saga are both town. This means that we should almost absolutely have a lynch today between these 7 players that agreed that the production is a good idea.
My top three priorities for this are Fruit Ninja/Instagram/Clash of Clans, but Vine is also acceptable unless they get their butt in gear and start playing right. My gut read says town is possible and it is a gambit but my logic side says they are pretty scummy. If my gut did not ping for Vine being town right now they’d still be at the top.
My readwall for these 9 players from top (town) to bottom (scum) of these nine players is:
Candy Crush Saga
TapATalk
2048
Temple Run
iFunny
Vine
FruitNinja/Instagram/Clash of Clans

For Fruit Ninja – The arguments posted before are starting to gain more credence on me that they are the SK now that I’ve had time to sleep on it.

For Clash of Clans – The introductory vote at the beginning on Vine and then joining the Fruit Ninja lynch at the start because two of their buddies were on it and unable to give solid reasons as to why until much later. When prompted, they literally said “Idk.” , with a fluffy reason after it. Also looking at who the two buddies are: Instagram and Quizup this doesn’t surprise me. Quizup was willing to have an honest discussion and provoke thought into who is and is not scum so they are likely town. Instagram I would have said was likely town until their last post of the day. If Clash of Clans is mafia scum then it likely follows that Fruit Ninja is not mafia scum, but possibly the serial killer. If Clash of Clans is mafia scum then I’d look doubly hard at Instagram.

For Instagram – They started off agreeing with the ridiculously horrible plan and claiming peaceful. Then they come back on the last post and say they are investigating me because I’m all over the place. It’s day 1. I’m supposed to prod and pressure and question as many people as reasonably possible. That’s scumhunting 101. Being all over the place is a good thing it shows an open mind. Unless a player is me or mod confirmed town (like Candy Crush Saga/TapATalk) they have a chance of being scum.
They also called me a male. My introduction was, in part, establishing that I’m female. It’s pretty hard to miss. So they read my posts enough to judge that I’m “all over the place”, but not notice I’m a female? This seems fishy. Combining that with the investigating me which is a contradiction of prior claim of peaceful as well as it should be suicide and almost anti-win-con to power role claim this early as mafia scum should be targeting and/or killing Instagram today if Instagram is alive today, I would advocate their lynch.
It’s especially telling that in my feedback, nothing happened. Zilch nada all I got was happiness and a statement saying nada happened. So either there is a scientist role in scum that manipulated my feedback OR Instagram is a liar. I’m leaning strongly towards the second.

I would like your feedback on these ideas. I’m really thinking that we should start by pressuring Instagram or Clash of Clans, and not Fruit Ninja, even though Fruit Ninja was almost the lynch. The reason being is because a day 1 lynch is almost always a townie of some kind, from a mathematical standpoint. While Fruit Ninja still has a lot of logic that they are the serial killer, and if we decide to lynch Fruit Ninja that’s still a good play but if we have more discussion the better it turns out for town.

@Cut the Rope

You can't use math in all the ways you did during this post. For example, 9 players said yes to the production plan. 2 are confirmed town. Why are you assuming all 4 scum will say yes as well? What if, for example, the 9 players are all town? And then the 4 scum are outside it because it messes with their plans? Ex: They have to build ETC for the extra production rather than what they wanted to do N1 or miss out on the extra production. Plus, it means players may have to be accountable later for the amount of production they have, reducing wiggle room for scum. So from an objective sense, you haven't even considered the opposite view. Look both ways before crossing the street, or you're going to get hit by a car you didn't look for.

Also keep in mind scum could not start discussing anything at all til N1. Also, mathematically the chances are scum will take both sides of the proposal so they aren't all tied together via something like that. So at least crunch the numbers correctly.

That said, Cut the Rope is a relatively strong town read for me.

[Words with Friends]

vine, how did you do that for your will? isn't it odd all your scumreads but for one refused to vote fruit ninja? is it likely scum didn't bus?

clash, you gripe about me telling you how to play and your first response is to tell cut the rope how not to play. hypocritical much?

[Vine]

Will we be told by PM that we have +2 production/happiness or other bonuses?

[Cut the Rope]

Whoa...Everyone Vine train bad idea with the feedback they just posted. We need to stop and think about this one a little bit harder.

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449769&viewfull=1#post449769

I mentioned it was likely that the scum had a culturalist and/or scientist. So four possibilities are happening

1) Vine was actually lured by scum and this caused the +1 happiness and that Vine is telling the truth.
2) Vine was believing themselves to tell the truth but was hit with a scientist bad feedback and that caused the plus one happiness and Vine is "telling the truth" in spirit.
3) Vine is a liar and preplanned the defense. Of all the defenses to preplan, there's a lot better plays to do.
4) Vine is newbie scum and is having introductory panic reaction to multiple serious votes.

I think 1 and 2 are a lot more likely given the hypothesized mechanics of the game. If we are going down a Vine train I'd like to see more arguments as to why.

Vine -- P.S. I'm trying to help town but I give you kudos for sticking to your guns that you believe I'm scum. It lends more credence to your beginning play which I still think is derping.

Clash Of Clans -- I am very confident that I can use math the way I did. I specialize in this kind of mathematics. I did not assume all 4 did, I assumed at least 1 did. HUGE difference. I would like you to reread the post and see if you can pick up the difference. If anyone else is interested I will break down how and why the formulas work the way they do but I don't want to spend a few hours doing probability 101 if all I get is TLDR and Too Fucking Boring/complex Didn't read.

Also I have NO IDEA when scum started their conversations. This to me is a HUGE scumslip. It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if scum knows what town is doing then scum can react.

Clash of Clans

[Cut the Rope]

Also Vine -- as a counter to that, why is Candy Crush Saga not Conf Town? I think you may need to reanalyze who you have as town and who you have as scum, assuming you are town. A lot of what you are saying is not making sense.

[Clash of Clans]

Clash Of Clans -- I am very confident that I can use math the way I did. I specialize in this kind of mathematics. I did not assume all 4 did, I assumed at least 1 did. HUGE difference. I would like you to reread the post and see if you can pick up the difference. If anyone else is interested I will break down how and why the formulas work the way they do but I don't want to spend a few hours doing probability 101 if all I get is TLDR and Too Fucking Boring/complex Didn't read.

Also I have NO IDEA when scum started their conversations. This to me is a HUGE scumslip. It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if scum knows what town is doing then scum can react.

Clash of Clans

Then I'll have to discuss the math stuff with you post-game. My apologies, I thought you said all 4 did. I'd argue scum would worry about proposed plans D1 etc. because they can't coordinate or figure out if it's helpful or hurtful to them, and if they sheep each other on one side or the other you can tie them together.

Please don't insult me. I don't scumslip. But anyways, this bolded quote from the setup is for you:


RULES AND MECHANICS
You will not know your RP name until you die
Days and Nights are 48 hours, unless I say otherwise
Mafia can talk to each other at night.

[Clash of Clans]

Also Vine -- as a counter to that, why is Candy Crush Saga not Conf Town? I think you may need to reanalyze who you have as town and who you have as scum, assuming you are town. A lot of what you are saying is not making sense.

That is a last will and thus from the night. It's from before the day started and the conf!town was given.

[2048]

Also Vine -- as a counter to that, why is Candy Crush Saga not Conf Town? I think you may need to reanalyze who you have as town and who you have as scum, assuming you are town. A lot of what you are saying is not making sense.

I think the answer to that is that Vine posted her last will. That may not reflect what they are thinking currently.

[Words with Friends]

vine, are you sure your feedback said you gained happiness or just that your were repelled?

[Words with Friends]

no I'm drunk she said lured

Mistake in actions? were tapatalk's choices swapped?

[Words with Friends]

cut the rope, you've the a problem... tapatalk said he repelled vine. so if vine was lured by scum, her net happiness would still be plus 1 no?

i'm thinking something fucked up personally.

[Vine]

vine, are you sure your feedback said you gained happiness or just that your were repelled?

I'm told that I was lured and that I have 2 happiness (gained 1 happiness).

[2048]

Night 1: Repelled Angry Birds | Attracted Vine

Ummm....

[2048]

vine, are you sure your feedback said you gained happiness or just that your were repelled?

I don't think anyone even talked about the repelling of Angry Birds yet.

[Words with Friends]

did you get any other feedback?

i'm confused because scientist can't stop you from getting your normal feedback and put new one in so you shouldn't have received lured? you should have received repelled, which makes sense given your peaceful claim earlier in the day

[Words with Friends]

I don't think anyone even talked about the repelling of Angry Birds yet.

which is why i'm thinking a mistake was made somewhere...the last will has precisely the opposite of what vine is claiming

[Cut the Rope]

Then I'll have to discuss the math stuff with you post-game. My apologies, I thought you said all 4 did. I'd argue scum would worry about proposed plans D1 etc. because they can't coordinate or figure out if it's helpful or hurtful to them, and if they sheep each other on one side or the other you can tie them together.

Please don't insult me. I don't scumslip. But anyways, this bolded quote from the setup is for you:

Nah, I don't mind explaining how I got my numbers in game and showing how it played out. No reason to have to wait until end game. :) It's actually just a couple of factorials thrown together quite nicely actually. Beautifully simple in its design. If you continute to insist that my mathematics is flawed I will do another spoiler post with all of it explained out in more detail when conversations die down. I'm confident that my logic will stand up to scrutiny.

It's my opinion that every scum scum slips, it's a matter of whether it is found during the game or afterward. And yes I see that mafia can talk to each other at night. This doesn't exclude a possibility of a prechat. In some games I have been in mafia did have those. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. But to outright say when mafia started talking to me is a scumslip. But in the game thread it was asked if mafia knew who the partners were and the host said yes. So even if no prechat or knowing of roles or planning, this still lends credence to the Culturalist is in scum idea.

Source of what host said: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449377&viewfull=1#post449377

So it's not meant as an insult, it's merely what I believe to be true.

2048/Words With Friends -- Good point -- Rereading. This may either mean something fishy or a scientist hit on Vine. Let me do some more analysis here.

[Vine]

I don't think anyone even talked about the repelling of Angry Birds yet.

He's, like... not the Doomsday Killer. Can still be Warmongers, I think...

[2048]

which is why i'm thinking a mistake was made somewhere...the last will has precisely the opposite of what vine is claiming

Words... Your confusing me.... Tapatalk's last will states that he REPELLED Angry Birds and LURED Vine

[Quizup]

I'm disappointed the lynch didn't go through. Let's see who checked in and didn't vote.


FM Vine

Still think he's scum and as I mentioned yesterday, I think his flip will give us information about Fall Down's alignment as well. Plus, a number of other people suspect Vine so I don't think it will be too difficult for us to get the votes.

Oh, and nothing happened to me last night.
I need more detail.

Fruit Ninja
Round 2.

[2048]

Why do you keep saying that Vines was repelled? Both the last will and Vine say they were lured.

[Vine]

which is why i'm thinking a mistake was made somewhere...the last will has precisely the opposite of what vine is claiming


Cultural
You are immune to the detriments of Unhappiness. At night, you may visit a player to display a painting, forcing them to stay at home if they visited you AND visit another player to discuss music tours in your country, forcing them to visit you. The person you lured will gain 1 Happiness and the person you repelled will lose 1 Happiness, regardless of whether or not the ability was successful. 3 usages.

No mistake.

*adamant*

[2048]

Vine's saying of being lured by Tapatalk seems legit. It's just that because Vine was lured to Tapatalk and Tapatalk die last night pins Vine as a Suspect of his murder.

[Quizup]

Actually.

2048

Welcome to my shit list.

[2048]

Actually.

2048

Welcome to my shit list.
Thanks for the smell.
Care to elaborate?

[Cut the Rope]

Moderators: Can you clarify the scientist's powers? Do they replace all feedback with the desired one or do they just leave an additional line of feedback?

Once the moderator gets back I'll think about what words and draw a diagram of possibilities here to see what happened. But my vote is definitely not going anywhere near Vine until I have at least a decent understanding of what happened. I still like FN/Instagram/Clash as better scum possibilities.

Vine -- If you really want to use leave your last will in case of a lynch would you please update it so that way it can be the most useful to town? And put it in spoiler tags as to not clutter up discussion.

[Fruit Ninja]

Wtf is apathy?

Also I never supported the idea for organizing our production.

[Quizup]

Fruit Ninja: Did you or did you not disappear when you were about to be lynched yesterDay?

[2048]

Wtf is apathy?

Also I never supported the idea for organizing our production.

Clash of Clans
He has indeed been twist words around.

[Fruit Ninja]

And yeah I couldnt get to internet. I'm just happy I wasent lynched.

[2048]

Moderators: Can you clarify the scientist's powers? Do they replace all feedback with the desired one or do they just leave an additional line of feedback?

This sparked my interest, did you receive some kinda of feedback that you'd like to share?

[Quizup]

Thanks for the smell.
Care to elaborate?
You're playing so safe it hurts. Commit to some reads.

[Cut the Rope]

Apathy is an unconcern or general blase about something.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apathy

Oh and lying is very unbecoming:
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449434&viewfull=1#post449434
That post implies a general acceptance of town should collaborate to build the wonder and who should spend the most production on it.

[Fall Down]

First off nothing happened to me last night

Now to read back up.

[Words with Friends]

2048 apparently vine was lured which makes cut the rope's analysis confusing

quiztap i think 2048 just did commit to a read

[Quizup]

Cut the Rope: You're going down the wrong track (it's the literal vs. figurative language thing again wrt to Instagram).

[Cut the Rope]

This sparked my interest, did you receive some kinda of feedback that you'd like to share?

I did an analysis of the night case and already explained why I thought a scientist may be in the mix. Depending upon the answer the moderators give it may be possible that Vine was hit by a scientist. I need the answer and time to do a proper analysis. The posts confronting Vine are confusing me so I want an answer to help clarify what is going on here.

Quizup -- Thanks for the suggestion. I'll take it under advisement. Right now I like Clash as my top scumspect right now and they aren't doing anything to change my mind that much.

[Quizup]

2048 apparently vine was lured which makes cut the rope's analysis confusing

quiztap i think 2048 just did commit to a read
Yeah, and it's a bad read that he doesn't backup. Do you see this post?

So Candy is confirmed town....might be good to have a doc on him.
This post is a scumclaim. I have almost never seen town summarize night info like that. Scum do it all the time. It's called Information Instead of Analysis (IIoA).

[2048]

This post is a scumclaim. I have almost never seen town summarize night info like that. Scum do it all the time. It's called Information Instead of Analysis (IIoA).

Lol, honestly this was my attempt at 'First Post' to let others know that I am here. As for IIOA, haven't you noticed most of my posts are considered IIOA?

[Quizup]

Cut the Rope: I think you have the right idea. Scum most likely split in opinions between planning and not planning in order to distance. However, you're targeting the more towny people in that group.

2048: Do you not realize that IIoA is a scumtell? Give me precise reads, please.

[Words with Friends]

quizup i only see that sorta thing as a woohoo or oh shit being a scumclaim, even then its weak. i strongly disagree with your scumread here.

[Fruit Ninja]

Does the lure aquired from researcher give happiness to the person you used it on?

Can it be used in addition to night abilitys?

[Quizup]

Fruit Ninja, I promise you you will be lynched if you don't shape up. Stop talking about mechanics and starting giving thoughts on players.

[2048]

Cut the Rope: I think you have the right idea. Scum most likely split in opinions between planning and not planning in order to distance. However, you're targeting the more towny people in that group.

2048: Do you not realize that IIoA is a scumtell? Give me precise reads, please.
Sir, precise reads are IIOA. Data is far better than opinion.

[Cut the Rope]

Quizup -- Again, reads are not my strong suit, math is. But based on the logic and how the plays are showing up I think Clash of Clans is still the best bet. I'm not really seeing how they are town after numerous arguments of what not to do, insisting on doing the wrong thing, and then trying to misinterpret the correct mathematics. I really haven't seen anyone make a decent argument as to why Clash is town either.

To be frank, I like using NK analysis (which is not done yet obviously) and mechanics analysis to get the most likely scum, then after that comes reads. Reads can be manipulated, people can be manipulated. Facts are very hard to manipulate and this game I think will have a way to give us a lot of facts to find scum.

[Cut the Rope]

Brb in 15-30 ya'll sorry.

[Quizup]

2048: No. I want you to analyze the thread and derive reads from it, then explain those reads to us. Are you capable of doing that?

[Fruit Ninja]

I don't like you.

Quizup

[Quizup]

Cut the Rope: I know. Can you trust me when I tell you Clash is probably town and you should focus on the [2048, Fruit Ninja, Temple Run, iFunny] cluster?

Fruit Ninja: The feeling is mutual. I'm not asking for a lot here.

[King Terenas Menethil]

Will we be told by PM that we have +2 production/happiness or other bonuses?

If you're talking about the production bonus from contributing, players should already know if they have it or not based on their contributions.



Moderators: Can you clarify the scientist's powers? Do they replace all feedback with the desired one or do they just leave an additional line of feedback?


They add one additional line of feedback. They may also additionally erase all other feedbacks for a player. Happiness Level is not counted as a feedback, so the affected player will still learn it but they will receive no other feedback ("Nothing Happened").


Does the lure aquired from researcher give happiness to the person you used it on?

Can it be used in addition to night abilitys?

Nope.

Yes.

[2048]

2048: No. I want you to analyze the thread and derive reads from it, then explain those reads to us. Are you capable of doing that?

Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. But right now I'm not worried about what you 'want' nor care about how you feel about the way I play.

[Quizup]

And you don't care because?

[2048]

And you don't care because?

Because I'm not one to follow your every whim due to 'fear of being accused scummy'.

[Cut the Rope]

Cut the Rope: I know. Can you trust me when I tell you Clash is probably town and you should focus on the [2048, Fruit Ninja, Temple Run, iFunny] cluster?

Fruit Ninja: The feeling is mutual. I'm not asking for a lot here.

Backish -- may be a bit slower to post/reply ya'll.

Quizup -- So to be clear here, you're asking me to just trust you that you that Clash is town? Without any evidence and asking me to pretty much damn near buddy you? Don't get me wrong you're nice, but people can be manipulated like I said Quizup. I do and always keep my mind open, but until someone shows me SOMETHING that I can use to change my mind from a mathematical/logical progression the answer is no. I think you're probably town for the patience, people pushing, and dedication that you have, but at the same time I also think 2048 is town as well (but that is deteriorating the more they post nothingness). I could easily just ask for you to trust the evidence that I have. So I trust that you believe it, but I don't follow blindly.

2048 -- Your town stock is deterioriating rather quickly. There have got to be some things that you believe or contributions you can give. Saying you're maybe capable of that is bullshit. Everyone can do it, it's just a matter of how well it is done.

All/Hosts -- Thanks for the answers...Now another brief commercial break for Vine analysis.

[Quizup]

2048: Excellent, thank you. Welcome back to the town list. (Some reads would still be appreciated and I wish you would vote more, just to ego check me a little)
Fruit Ninja

Cut the Rope: I don't really understand why you are singling Clash out over the others.

[Words with Friends]

quizup clash's play is distinctly anti-town in his production queue stuff, why are you so sure he's town?

[2048]

2048: Excellent, thank you. Welcome back to the town list. (Some reads would still be appreciated and I wish you would vote more, just to ego check me a little)
Fruit Ninja

Cut the Rope: I don't really understand why you are singling Clash out over the others.

?!?!! What did I do that was townie?

*scratches head furiously*

You people are so confusing!

[Words with Friends]

quizup don't answer... i see it but if 2048 is naive we can get info from that

[Vine]

quizup clash's play is distinctly anti-town in his production queue stuff, why are you so sure he's town?

Why did the Warmongers and Doomsday Killer kill Tapatalk who, like... suggested similar things to Clash of Clans, unless they feel that Clash of Clans and Tapatalk are threats?

[Quizup]

quizup clash's play is distinctly anti-town in his production queue stuff, why are you so sure he's town?
Hi. I asked Cut the Rope this question because I want an answer from her. Please let the target of my question answer next time before you answer. It's called the Garcia rule, and it was first expressed here: http://www.fantasystrike.com/forums/index.php?threads/witchhunt-game-4.3885/page-61#post-111565 I suspect I know who you are, which means you should already know this.

2048: I was reaction testing, to see if your nonchalant vibe held up. It did, you're town, moving on.

[Words with Friends]

quizup i didn't garcia cut the rope. i said clash has been anti town and asked you why u were so sure. that does nothing nor hints at an answer for cut the rope.

[Words with Friends]

Why did the Warmongers and Doomsday Killer kill Tapatalk who, like... suggested similar things to Clash of Clans, unless they feel that Clash of Clans and Tapatalk are threats?

how do i know

are you suggesting that i'm playing into a scumtrap vine?

[Words with Friends]

Hi. I asked Cut the Rope this question because I want an answer from her. Please let the target of my question answer next time before you answer. It's called the Garcia rule, and it was first expressed here: http://www.fantasystrike.com/forums/index.php?threads/witchhunt-game-4.3885/page-61#post-111565 I suspect I know who you are, which means you should already know this.

2048: I was reaction testing, to see if your nonchalant vibe held up. It did, you're town, moving on.

dude, didn't i just say not to answer because then people can react that way

[Cut the Rope]

Based on looking at the mechanics and the N1 interactions, Vine is probably town. While it is still possible that a scientist power (assuming a scientist is in the game) was used on Vine, it matches up exactly with what the last will indicated, so my thought is probably no scientist use on Vine and that they are telling the truth.

Quizup
Clash is a top suspect for reasons already mentioned in the big long quote post AND
1) Their opening to try to get town to continue on a specific plan. With how soon it was after day break trying to convince town to continue to do something stupid after several explanations why deserves a scum examination.

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449751&viewfull=1#post449751
This post here especially is bad because in Day 1 it was repeated several times by more than just me why plan coordination is bad and they still ask for it.

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449720&viewfull=1#post449720
They were awful eager to post no feedback. This to me looks like a planned strategy from the get go to plan it. If you got no feedback why is it so ultimately useful to town that it has to be in your first post? Again...doesn't really make sense unless planned or trying to get others feedback.

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449724&viewfull=1#post449724
His confrontation here seems VERY hypocritical.
Openly PR directing is a "bad" thing in their posts, but apparently wonder directing is a "good" thing..Doesn't compute.
And again more feedback prompting.

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449728&viewfull=1#post449728
Also some of these plans are just plain horrible.
Take the gun for example: If the person who has the gun announces who they are going to kill and its scum, then they'll probably get NK'd in the night. If it's town then of course by all means let the shot go through. If the Hunger games gets built and the person has a gun for god sake's don't telegraph who you're going to shoot. This plan is so pro scum I want to try to find where the goddamn neon sign is.

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449738&viewfull=1#post449738
I'm a strategist at heart, but exposing plans and then hoping to God we have a counter seems rather well stupid. Until some mafia are dead anyone posting any serious plan unless it is 100% foolproof looks more scummy in my eyes.

Do I need to go on Quizup?

[Kik]

I don't know how I can defend myself, so...

Last will:

Your reads are bullshit. First of all, I have 14 posts, yet you rate me as "not enough information" while ifunny, who has one post, you rate as "leaning town". And it wasn't even a long or particularly note-worthy post. He just sheeped the current lynch train, said "town should have a plan" and didn't post again until today.

Then, my favorite part, is that in your description of me you said I "buddied with fall down", which shows that you didn't even read my posts, since what I actually did was accuse him of being scum with you.

And your system is even further flawed because it seems to be completely arbitrary. You're confident that Quizup is the doomsday killer, yet he only gets "leaning scum", which is the same rating that angry birds got with only one post. Plus, 2048 commits essentially the same crime (many posts with little original content) and gets "strong scum". Why the double standard?

[Cut the Rope]

Why did the Warmongers and Doomsday Killer kill Tapatalk who, like... suggested similar things to Clash of Clans, unless they feel that Clash of Clans and Tapatalk are threats?

Vine I think that why TapATalk was a threat to both the SK and the mafia needs to be in someone's analysis. I think the heart of the question is good but the suggestions part is not. Too many people suggested plans for it to be the reason why TapATalk was a threat. I think one has to go back and look at what TapATalk did that made them the best target. What got both of their guns up? I don't know what that is yet, but it is a good question to think about.

[Kik]

I'm disappointed the lynch didn't go through. Let's see who checked in and didn't vote.


Actually, I did vote. It's right there in the quote, so...



I need more detail.


More detail... Ok, uh...

Nothing happened to me last night... AND I just ate dinner.

How's that?

[Cut the Rope]

Your reads are bullshit. First of all, I have 14 posts, yet you rate me as "not enough information" while ifunny, who has one post, you rate as "leaning town". And it wasn't even a long or particularly note-worthy post. He just sheeped the current lynch train, said "town should have a plan" and didn't post again until today.

Then, my favorite part, is that in your description of me you said I "buddied with fall down", which shows that you didn't even read my posts, since what I actually did was accuse him of being scum with you.

And your system is even further flawed because it seems to be completely arbitrary. You're confident that Quizup is the doomsday killer, yet he only gets "leaning scum", which is the same rating that angry birds got with only one post. Plus, 2048 commits essentially the same crime (many posts with little original content) and gets "strong scum". Why the double standard?

This is a very good logical post and I like the thoroughness of it, but I'm curious as to why you're looking at just Vine and not the people attacking them. Words with friends either made a mistake or an intentional prod of Vine. The reads were already established bullshit though so I don't know if this is adding anything extra. What is making you so sure Vine is scum other than a known liar in Instagram or someone like Clash? With the intro attack on Vine it almost seems like another mislynch attempt.

[Vine]

Role

Construction for N2






Chief

8WC



Speaker
8WC


Marshall
8WC


Sheriff
4WC


Investigator
4WC


Coroner
4WC


Cultural
8Wonders


Doctor
4WC


Secret Service
4WC


Lookout
4WC


Detective
4WC


Crafter
4WC


Filibuster
4WC


Jailor
4WC


Nuclear
4WC


Peaceful
8WC / 8Wonders




In my opinion, Peaceful do not need the extra 2 happiness. But if WC is to be completed tomorrow, help from Peaceful is needed.

Warmonger (role) might be aiming for New Eiffel Tower. Had contributed 6 production to it since night 1, I believe... if he did not, then we should compete for this wonder.

A designated Peaceful might want to aim for New Great Pyramids especially if you feel bored at night. Please claim that you are a Peaceful planning to build this, to prevent overlap, and so that scums will be forced to kill you instead of Town PRs.

Peaceful could get New Statue of Liberty too. Inform everyone if you plan to build this.

We should discuss if Town PRs should max happiness first or get Wonders.

Disguiser will complete School tonight. Might start disguising tomorrow night. We should be prepared.

*contributes*

[Quizup]

quizup i didn't garcia cut the rope. i said clash has been anti town and asked you why u were so sure. that does nothing nor hints at an answer for cut the rope.
I ask Cut the Rope why she was going after him, and then you explained why he's scum to me. How is that not a garcia?

I'm not feeling the anti-town argument for Clash, but I'll let him defend himself for now.


Actually, I did vote. It's right there in the quote, so...



More detail... Ok, uh...

Nothing happened to me last night... AND I just ate dinner.

How's that?
Uh, wow. You missed my points completely. Maybe I'm just really bad at getting them across?

I'm not saying you didn't vote; that was an unrelated thought. I'm asking for details on your read of Vine and the connection to Fall Down.

[Kik]

This is a very good logical post and I like the thoroughness of it, but I'm curious as to why you're looking at just Vine and not the people attacking them. Words with friends either made a mistake or an intentional prod of Vine. The reads were already established bullshit though so I don't know if this is adding anything extra. What is making you so sure Vine is scum other than a known liar in Instagram or someone like Clash? With the intro attack on Vine it almost seems like another mislynch attempt.

Where were the reads already called out as being bullshit? I must've missed it. I admit I've been skimming because I've been busy the last couple days. I'm hoping things will die down a bit tomorrow so I can read more closely and take more/better notes. In any case, I marked that post when I was skimming as something I wanted to go back and respond to, so I did. My instinct on WWF is that he just made a mistake, but I'll have to re-examine his posts to be sure. I am not necessarily sure Vine is scum, I am just suspicious of him because his "plan" yesterday was basically for everyone to claim. Though I'll admit it's unlikely that scum would be so brazen, it could could be a gambit to get us to follow that exact line of thinking to assume Vine is town and let him fly under the radar all game.

The last will of Tapatalk confirms that Vine was lured, so Vine may very well be one of the scum that attacked Tapatalk.

[Words with Friends]

vine stop it. that's not helpful. look at who is scummy and who isn't. plan discussions help scums.

quizup. saying clash has been anti-town is not a garcia. it doesn't answer why cut the rope wanted him dead. again, you dodged. why are you so sure he's town? all he does is setup spec.

[Vine]

Cut the Rope

*suspicious*

[Words with Friends]

This is a very good logical post and I like the thoroughness of it, but I'm curious as to why you're looking at just Vine and not the people attacking them. Words with friends either made a mistake or an intentional prod of Vine. The reads were already established bullshit though so I don't know if this is adding anything extra. What is making you so sure Vine is scum other than a known liar in Instagram or someone like Clash? With the intro attack on Vine it almost seems like another mislynch attempt.

it was a mistake. i thought vine was repelled not lured hence my confusion. i'm starting to understand...

we know that both the SK and the mafia killed tapatalk so it's more likely vine is one of the two that appears to be the understanding


vine what are you doing?

[Quizup]

vine stop it. that's not helpful. look at who is scummy and who isn't. plan discussions help scums.

quizup. saying clash has been anti-town is not a garcia. it doesn't answer why cut the rope wanted him dead. again, you dodged. why are you so sure he's town? all he does is setup spec.
I already explain my light town read, dude: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449544&viewfull=1#post449544

[Vine]

vine stop it. that's not helpful. look at who is scummy and who isn't. plan discussions help scums.

quizup. saying clash has been anti-town is not a garcia. it doesn't answer why cut the rope wanted him dead. again, you dodged. why are you so sure he's town? all he does is setup spec.

You could, like... read my last will. Scums killed Tapatalk who mainly posted about plans...

[Kik]

I ask Cut the Rope why she was going after him, and then you explained why he's scum to me. How is that not a garcia?

I'm not feeling the anti-town argument for Clash, but I'll let him defend himself for now.


Uh, wow. You missed my points completely. Maybe I'm just really bad at getting them across?

I'm not saying you didn't vote; that was an unrelated thought. I'm asking for details on your read of Vine and the connection to Fall Down.

I knew what you wanted. I was fucking with you because there really is no more detail to be had. I stated my reasons yesterday, and just repeated myself a bit in my last post- I have no intention of repeating myself a third time.

And here you go yet again trying to get someone else to talk in an attempt to buy yourself more town points. Why don't YOU give ME more detail, hmm?

[Cut the Rope]

VINE OMG! WTF?

Did I not just say that my scum radar would go up on someone who suggested plans like this goes up on my scum radar? SERIOUSLY...I have explained why these plans are bad with logic and math formulas and a few other people have and you still continue this. Right now please focus on scumhunting. Yes I openly admit I am trying to shut down suggested mass plans but again...This is NOT cool. Trying to manipulate the production into what you want or giving massive information to scum is a fucking horrible idea....PERIOD.

Please explain to me how the hell this is contributing. You need to scumhunt.

Quizup -- And I'm just putting out the information to the best of my ability. I accept that you aren't feeling it, but out of the people out there he is acting the most scummy. Instagram and Fruit Ninja haven't done much to sway me yet either, but Clash's opening is utter shit. Vine is also moving up in scumminess after not listening to town NUMEROUS times.

Kik -- Who the hell is WWF?
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449775&viewfull=1#post449775 << First time reads were questioned
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449778&viewfull=1#post449778 << Second time reads were questioned
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449780&viewfull=1#post449780 << Third time reads were questioned
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449781&viewfull=1#post449781 << Fourth time reads were questioned

So no one used the words bullshit but there were definitely a lot of questions/doubts over the reads.

But being lured doesn't mean anything about whether or not they attacked TapATalk. Based on the last will they visited, but for Vine your suggestion to be plausible that Vine could have been the one would mean either predisposition to know that TapATalk lured which I don't believe is possible in the mechanics or just pure luck.

[Words with Friends]

vine tapatalk had much more than that, particularly in his end of day post.

quizup nothing today changes that read? i mean by your standard anyone who votes is a slight town read. well they look bad if that person flips town so slight town read.

[Cut the Rope]

Quizup That townread just isn't working for me. I've already explained how a Vine/Clash tandem team is quite possible with that vote that you claim is townie. Right now to me the argument that Clash needs a hell of a lot more than that if I'm going to believe any of it. The main posts you have on Clash as town read I already refuted in day one as to why I like Clash as a scum read. I trust that you believe Clash is town but the more you just insist the worse this looks.

[Kik]

Kik -- Who the hell is WWF?
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449775&viewfull=1#post449775 << First time reads were questioned
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449778&viewfull=1#post449778 << Second time reads were questioned
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449780&viewfull=1#post449780 << Third time reads were questioned
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449781&viewfull=1#post449781 << Fourth time reads were questioned

So no one used the words bullshit but there were definitely a lot of questions/doubts over the reads.

But being lured doesn't mean anything about whether or not they attacked TapATalk. Based on the last will they visited, but for Vine your suggestion to be plausible that Vine could have been the one would mean either predisposition to know that TapATalk lured which I don't believe is possible in the mechanics or just pure luck.

Really? How was it not obvious to you that WWF = Words With Friends. I even responded directly to the part of your post where you asked about him... *facepalm*

Only two of the posts you linked actually sheds doubt on his reads. The other two are just correcting you by informing you that those are from yesterday and are not entirely current. So basically only one accurate post about it. And that post attacked a different aspect of his bullshit than mine did. So I don't think it would be accurate to say my post isn't new since even if the conclusion is not new, the thought process is.

And sure it does. If A forces B to target himself and A dies that night, I would say B is now pretty suspicious, wouldn't you? Same deal here. Especially given that it was a double kill, meaning an even greater number of scum are to blame.

[Cut the Rope]

Really? How was it not obvious to you that WWF = Words With Friends. I even responded directly to the part of your post where you asked about him... *facepalm*

Only two of the posts you linked actually sheds doubt on his reads. The other two are just correcting you by informing you that those are from yesterday and are not entirely current. So basically only one accurate post about it. And that post attacked a different aspect of his bullshit than mine did. So I don't think it would be accurate to say my post isn't new since even if the conclusion is not new, the thought process is.

And sure it does. If A forces B to target himself and A dies that night, I would say B is now pretty suspicious, wouldn't you? Same deal here. Especially given that it was a double kill, meaning an even greater number of scum are to blame.

Sorry about that. Yeah it's obvious now. But either way, the trust level I have for anything Vine says or does is practically useless right now. So that was a facepalm. I'm monitoring about 2-3 things at the same time as reading so I should probably slow down a bit.

I think there's 4 doubting the reads. We can agree to disagree but if at least 2 other posts before yours question the reads it's been pretty clear that the reads Vine had are either crappy if truthful or bullshit.

I will definitely give this some thought Kik. I appreciate you re-explaining.

[Clash of Clans]

Clash of Clans
He has indeed been twist words around.

LOLWUT

Yeah no. Exactly where and how Have I been twisting words around? Because, plot twist. I haven't.


Sir, precise reads are IIOA. Data is far better than opinion.

Is this your stance because it's early D2, or your stance in general on playing forum mafia?


quizup clash's play is distinctly anti-town in his production queue stuff, why are you so sure he's town?

Anti-town because you don't like the suggested plan? Granted you replaced in and didn't get a chance to say anything D1, but what, I'm scum and came up with a scummy plan and pushed it til it was accepted? When it helps us way more than it helps scum?


Why did the Warmongers and Doomsday Killer kill Tapatalk who, like... suggested similar things to Clash of Clans, unless they feel that Clash of Clans and Tapatalk are threats?

Because Tapatalk's posts were indicative of a strong player + pretty towny? I iso'd a couple players last night and he was one I pegged as town




Role

Construction for N2






Chief

8WC



Speaker
8WC


Marshall
8WC


Sheriff
4WC


Investigator
4WC


Coroner
4WC


Cultural
8Wonders


Doctor
4WC


Secret Service
4WC


Lookout
4WC


Detective
4WC


Crafter
4WC


Filibuster
4WC


Jailor
4WC


Nuclear
4WC


Peaceful
8WC / 8Wonders




In my opinion, Peaceful do not need the extra 2 happiness. But if WC is to be completed tomorrow, help from Peaceful is needed.

Warmonger (role) might be aiming for New Eiffel Tower. Had contributed 6 production to it since night 1, I believe... if he did not, then we should compete for this wonder.

A designated Peaceful might want to aim for New Great Pyramids especially if you feel bored at night. Please claim that you are a Peaceful planning to build this, to prevent overlap, and so that scums will be forced to kill you instead of Town PRs.

Peaceful could get New Statue of Liberty too. Inform everyone if you plan to build this.

We should discuss if Town PRs should max happiness first or get Wonders.

Disguiser will complete School tonight. Might start disguising tomorrow night. We should be prepared.

*contributes*

World Conference helps scum a ton more than town. 3 happiness -> free night action depending on roles. Also the extra vote could end up in the hands of scum.

Why do you think it's better for a Peaceful to claim and build the Pyramids? Realizing scum know exactly who is building towards it

I don't like your proposals tbh

[Clash of Clans]

iFunny I can definitely see based on his post. He shows how he hasn't read much of the day at all based on the last sentence where he talks about the plan and then he votes Fruit Ninja. Tapatalk mostly right now because he likes iFunny's post by his attitude toward iFunny wasn't harsh like all the others that he gave post reads on. Showing buddying.

Looking through the end of D1, 2 players threw out semi-scum reads on Taptalk.

I'd say it'd be a real waste as scum to slip in a scumread on someone you're going to night kill. So Quizup and Snapchat are very likely not the Doomsday Killer.

This doesn't hold as strongly with mafia, since if either is scum, scummates could have just pushed a Tapatalk kill really hard and thus it happened. But it does reduce the liklihood of either as mafia imo as well.

[Clash of Clans]

Edit post #1 with links to Day starts/ends? Please and thanks!

[Words with Friends]

i've already said why your plan is antitown clash. it permits scum to get vests turning the sk into a threat only for us. prs cannot afford the production. we get a one shot gun in exchange for making the sk only hurt us. bad plan. if the sk dies, then building hunger games is much better and doing the dual lynch plan but not till then.

you also pushed making the extraterrestrial which is a sucky plan. conftowns should emerge later, not earlier and it allows scum to have free production if they anticipated the plan.

the timing of your plans do seem to benefit scum.


however i do agree that wc is not meant to be built immediately and that a peaceful outing to build a role isn't good.


i also don't care that all you do for the most part is setup speculation clash.

[Words with Friends]

and there's the ninja with something not setup speculation

[Clash of Clans]

Wow I think I skipped an entire page due to my phone browsing. Didn't even see Vine's claim.


I'm Peaceful.
Was lured.
Current happiness +2.

*disappointed*

Since you've claimed, explain your behavior D1 please.

[Clash of Clans]

i've already said why your plan is antitown clash. it permits scum to get vests turning the sk into a threat only for us. prs cannot afford the production. we get a one shot gun in exchange for making the sk only hurt us. bad plan. if the sk dies, then building hunger games is much better and doing the dual lynch plan but not till then.

you also pushed making the extraterrestrial which is a sucky plan. conftowns should emerge later, not earlier and it allows scum to have free production if they anticipated the plan.

the timing of your plans do seem to benefit scum.


however i do agree that wc is not meant to be built immediately and that a peaceful outing to build a role isn't good.


i also don't care that all you do for the most part is setup speculation clash.


and there's the ninja with something not setup speculation

Or you can chill and let me solve the game once players start posting? There's WAY too many players with <10 posts or at most <10 content posts

[Cut the Rope]

Right now I really want two votes. One for vine and one for Clash. Since programmatically I can't do that I'm keeping my vote on Clash but I really, really like a Vine/Clash team. The fake vote and none defense of it while arguing against the pressure vote that I had is a point for Vine scum/Clash team.

Vine's proposal has a claim that the Disguiser will finish the school tonight. Has anyone suggested or proposed that there is a disguiser? This definitely assumes facts not in evidence. I have hypothesized certain scum roles based on the actions of the town, but as far as I know no one has definitive proof of any scum role except scum.

Then there's Clash's rebuttal. He doesn't point out that it is another attempt at getting peacefuls to reveal which is what mafia and SK both want so that way more deaths occur. It's more what he is reubutting and how than a rebuttal. And the fact that they continue to discuss plans adds to my radar as well.

It looks very much like the serial killer killed TapATalk and a Vine pull.
And further more it looks like Clash is attempting to bus their partner and set it up in that manner as a reaction to the heat between the two.

I have to step away and I don't know if I'll be back tonight but my thoughts are Vine/Clash are both scum if I can't post further tonight.

[King Terenas Menethil]

Edit post #1 with links to Day starts/ends? Please and thanks!

Enact: Waypoints was passed. Its effects are now in place in post #2.
20 for Yea from Players
2 for Nay from Hosts

[Clash of Clans]

Right now I really want two votes. One for vine and one for Clash. Since programmatically I can't do that I'm keeping my vote on Clash but I really, really like a Vine/Clash team. The fake vote and none defense of it while arguing against the pressure vote that I had is a point for Vine scum/Clash team.

Vine's proposal has a claim that the Disguiser will finish the school tonight. Has anyone suggested or proposed that there is a disguiser? This definitely assumes facts not in evidence. I have hypothesized certain scum roles based on the actions of the town, but as far as I know no one has definitive proof of any scum role except scum.

Then there's Clash's rebuttal. He doesn't point out that it is another attempt at getting peacefuls to reveal which is what mafia and SK both want so that way more deaths occur. It's more what he is reubutting and how than a rebuttal. And the fact that they continue to discuss plans adds to my radar as well.

It looks very much like the serial killer killed TapATalk and a Vine pull.
And further more it looks like Clash is attempting to bus their partner and set it up in that manner as a reaction to the heat between the two.

I have to step away and I don't know if I'll be back tonight but my thoughts are Vine/Clash are both scum if I can't post further tonight.

You want me to post an exact thought-by-thought on why I voted Vine and then moved my vote?

Too bad. I'll post it later if I want to, but right now I don't.

Where in the fuck did peaceful revealings come into anything I've said?

I'm going to talk with you post-game on why not all public directing is anti-town, specifically with plans. Key point: production and PR directing are different.

Where the fuck does it seem like I'm "busing my partner"? Have I voted anyone yet? No. Where are you even coming up with this stuff??

Seriously, you have an incredible amount of confirmation bias in your posts. I'm not scum. Yeuch

[2048]

@Clash that is my general opinion to use IIOA in most forum games

@Vine why are you directing production again after we showed how it can hurt town?

[Clash of Clans]

Enact: Waypoints was passed. Its effects are now in place in post #2.
20 for Yea from Players
2 for Nay from Hosts

<3 for our glorious administrators! So players can out-vote hosts hmm...

[Clash of Clans]

FLAP FLAP FLAP FLAP FLAP FLAP FLAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FLAP FLAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FLAP FLAP FLAP FLAP FLAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP

I'm sorry that I -flap- didn't get on -flap flap- sooner; I've been -flap- problems with -flap flap flap- this site along with my entire -flap flap- browser -flap- recently, so I might not -flap- be as active -flap flap- as I'd like to -flap- be. I'll -flap- make a post with -flap flap- my thoughts about -flap- what's gone -flap flap flap flap- on so far soon, -flap-hopefully -flap flap-.

You did not make a post with your thoughts on what's gone on.

Flappy Bird

[Clash of Clans]

@Clash that is my general opinion to use IIOA in most forum games

@Vine why are you directing production again after we showed how it can hurt town?

Can you define what you mean by 'information' and 'analysis' then? Are you saying you don't draw up reads at all, or just not this early on, or what?

[Vine]

World Conference helps scum a ton more than town. 3 happiness -> free night action depending on roles. Also the extra vote could end up in the hands of scum.

Why do you think it's better for a Peaceful to claim and build the Pyramids? Realizing scum know exactly who is building towards it

I don't like your proposals tbh


3 Happiness
Warmongers: You may carry out your regular ability along with the factional night kill.
Town Power:: You will not use up a charge of your ability tonight.
Peaceful: Production +1 per night.
Doomsday Killer: You learn the identity of the Researcher.
Researcher: You are immune to death by the Doomsday Killer.

At 3 happiness, will Warmongers use up a charge when they use their ability?
At 3 happiness, if a Warmonger used both regular ability and factional night kill, will they lose 1 or 2 happiness?
Will the player with the extra vote be revealed?

Won't affect Peaceseekers much in cases of Doomsday Killer and Researcher, if we build WC.


I'd say it'd be a real waste as scum to slip in a scumread on someone you're going to night kill. So Quizup and Snapchat are very likely not the Doomsday Killer.
Scums don't decide whom to kill so early, I think... most of the time, it is decided at night, after rereading the whole thread. So their behavior at day, like... will not tell us whom they plan to kill tonight!

*explains*


i've already said why your plan is antitown clash. it permits scum to get vests turning the sk into a threat only for us. prs cannot afford the production. we get a one shot gun in exchange for making the sk only hurt us. bad plan. if the sk dies, then building hunger games is much better and doing the dual lynch plan but not till then.

you also pushed making the extraterrestrial which is a sucky plan. conftowns should emerge later, not earlier and it allows scum to have free production if they anticipated the plan.

the timing of your plans do seem to benefit scum.


however i do agree that wc is not meant to be built immediately and that a peaceful outing to build a role isn't good.


i also don't care that all you do for the most part is setup speculation clash.

Please read the setup!

Peaceseekers can also get vests as long as we contribute 4 production. Warmongers can't finish building an International Project in 2 days. PRs actually can afford the vests (10 production) with 8 production per night. They can alternate between happiness buildings and vests. Peaceseeker getting a gun won't affect Doomsday Killer in anyway...

Scums don't need the production for vests from Hunger Games. Peaceseekers do. Getting ETC benefits Peaceseekers more.

Confirmed Peaceful is good since scum need to waste a kill to get them, and PRs can avoid wasting an investigation charge. The only thing Candy Crush Saga needs to be wary of is Disguiser.

[King Terenas Menethil]

At 3 happiness, will Warmongers use up a charge when they use their ability?
At 3 happiness, if a Warmonger used both regular ability and factional night kill, will they lose 1 or 2 happiness?
Will the player with the extra vote be revealed?



Yes.
2.
Yes.

[Vine]

Wow I think I skipped an entire page due to my phone browsing. Didn't even see Vine's claim.

Since you've claimed, explain your behavior D1 please.

It's posted in my last will...


Yes.
2.
Yes.

Clash of Clans please support my motion to build WC tonight.

[Instagram]

Hooray we have a confirmed Warmonger

Vine

By this time the Sheriff is no doubt at 0 happiness so we need to complete the World Congress so he can keep investigating without suffering a penalty.

As before PR roles should go 4 Production - 4 Production. Peacefuls like me should contribute 8 to attempt to get the extra vote. I doubt any Warmongers put any production into it.

[Words with Friends]

vine hungergames sucks. if prs build vests plus happiness buildings then it turns wonders over to scums. hunger games is bad.

instagram, we do not even kniw if there is a sheriff. if there is then scum are likely drained on happiness as well.

also, scum biggest handicap is happiness they would build wc too if coordinated.

stop this planning nonsense that scum can plan around. see you tomorrow.

[Vine]

vine hungergames sucks. if prs build vests plus happiness buildings then it turns wonders over to scums. hunger games is bad.

also, scum biggest handicap is happiness they would build wc too if coordinated.

stop this planning nonsense that scum can plan around. see you tomorrow.

Wonders are mainly for Cultural and Peaceful, whom are independent of unhappiness, and do not depend on vests. Wonders are not for other PRs.

I've, like... showed that WC benefits Peaceseekers more than scum (#478-479). Town PRs need WC too, they are at 0 happiness tonight.

Scums had limited counters. In the end, planning provides more benefits for Peaceseekers.

[2048]

Is it true that Peaceseekers being it more from vests than Warmongers do. However I believe it still be best to let each individual decide what to produce, instead of directing everyone by a defined set of rules. Scum would have a harder time getting what they want do to not knowing what everyone is after.

However however, WC would greatly benefit TPRs with their happiness for night actions. Just to let individuals keep that in mind.


(Omfg why is tapatalk working in color?)

[Vine]

Scum would have a harder time getting what they want do to not knowing what everyone is after.

Like... what do scums want? Please suggest countermeasures. There are more town than scum after all.

*demands*

[2048]

Demands, demands.....

Scum may like a extra vote and the wonder powers

[2048]

The best counter measures are the lack if information. But it works before ways.

Oh and before I forget to answer the IIOA question; Information is facts and fact derived answers, while Analysis is opinion based on the given information. Just remember, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they stink. I care less about them.

[Vine]

Demands, demands.....

Scum may like a extra vote and the wonder powers

If we decided that only day-revealing roles should get the extra vote, it would be suicidal for scum to go for it.

Which wonder powers and how do they plan to use them?

*demands more*

[Vine]

The best counter measures are the lack if information. But it works before ways.

Why are you even posting then? Best counter measure against scum is, like... not to post anything.

*sarcasm*

[2048]

If we decided that only day-revealing roles should get the extra vote, it would be suicidal for scum to go for it.

Which wonder powers and how do they plan to use them?

*demands more*

Argh, I can answer that in 3 hours. I only have a few minutes to view and post per break.

[2048]

[Q UOTE=Vine;449884]Why are you even posting then? Best counter measure against scum is, like... not to post anything.

*sarcasm*[/QUOTE]
Guess I should stop posting then...

*pouts*

[Temple Run]

I don't know how I can defend myself, so...

Last will:

I call bullshit

Those "reads" are barely justified, those are just summaries of what happened yesterday + some colors to LOOSELY indicate what alignment he thinks they are.
also your "explanations" aren't strong enough, you are assuming that scum don't like newbies, but it is EASILY SEEN that your newbie-ness is faked

and since you indicated here that you faked your newbie-ness, I'm sure you're not a peaceful
Vine

[Temple Run]

Hooray we have a confirmed Warmonger

Vine

By this time the Sheriff is no doubt at 0 happiness so we need to complete the World Congress so he can keep investigating without suffering a penalty.

As before PR roles should go 4 Production - 4 Production. Peacefuls like me should contribute 8 to attempt to get the extra vote. I doubt any Warmongers put any production into it.

I think that vine is a warmonger too, but please explain why you said that he is confirmed?

[Cut the Rope]

Vine

Temple Run
The case for Vine is three fold to me why they are confirmed scum, either mafia or SK.
1) The mafia and the Serial killer hit the same person. This strongly implies, since Vine got lured to TapATalk, that Vine is the player that did a kill order on TapATalk.
2) In their suggestions they said the Disguiser is almost done building the school. No had even suggested a Disguiser existed before that point, so IMO this is a scumslip.
3) If they are the serial killer, the attempt to draw out peacefuls early is way too obvious. That and the other person who claimed Peaceful is still alive (Instagram) makes it very unlikely that Vine is the serial killer but is very likely mafia scum.

2048
Good for stopping feeding the very likely scum. Although I am disappointed that since you could be back in 3 hours there's not more activity or a poke or a prod or something for you to check back in the am. Scum wins when town quits posting, so if you are town like I think you are, then come out to play some more.

Clash of Clans Response to: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449867&viewfull=1#post449867
No I don't want a response of your thought by thought. It'd be more bullshit.
The peaceful revealings was in what Vine suggested and that you did not notice or counter same with the scumslip of Disguiser. It's like you are trying to look like you are stopping a bad plan as much as possible without pointing out the most obvious dangerous flaws. Like trying to build town cred without damaging scum too much. This usually occurs right before a bus.
Sure you're more than welcome to talk to me about why that type of planning is useful post game, but in this case with these mechanics it is one of the most damaging things I can think of. As I said earlier, when there is less mafia and ability to counter then it might make sense. It's like a mass claim. It has to be timed correctly. Right now is a horrible time. It's a very bad idea.
And it seems like a prep to bus your partner. The fact you are getting defensive instead of sticking to your guns and saying "I believe this, fuck off" is another tell. Furthermore, your vote on Angry Birds is more than likely another random vote to try to get discussion going. For the two days and almost 500 posts you don't have any other better suspects. Bullshit. This looks like you felt pressured by me saying it was a bus.

So far the only thing half way valid about those posts is potential confirmation bias. Confirmation bias doesn't make it wrong though. And again there's a lot of evidence here. The arguments written as to who is scum and why you are not, need to be written to convince other people to follow you. Not a "I'm right, you're right" devolving. I'm putting my ideas and logic out on display and if people follow them they do. I'm pretty confident in town's ability to think for themselves and do the right thing.

All
For everyone here, we really need to make sure to get a lynch in today. Vine is probably one of the clearest safest lynches there is for reasons stated. Since the days are extremely short, we need to absolutely have a lynch today. For those of you on Clash of Clans or considering Clash of Clans scum I'm asking you to come over to Vine. While I like them both equally as scum, Vine has more votes and more mechanics driving this. I understand that the lack of player activity is really hurting us right now, so as town we need to adjust for that. For those of you actively posting and not voting Vine, it is my clear expectation that I want reasons why you are not voting for a player that is almost mechanics confirmed to be mafia or the serial killer, refuses to post decent reads, and trolls the thread constantly. Yes I understand Fruit Ninja wasn't lynched yesterday, probably due to player inactivity, but day 1 lynches are almost always town in every game. Once we lynch the more likely scum, then we can come back and re-evaluate Fruit Ninja. Let's come together and do the right thing for town.

[Cut the Rope]

Instagram

Nice of you to join us. I'm curious as to why you are still alive.
At first you claim peaceful and run with it. Then you at the end of the day say you're going to "investigate" me through the night. If it was a power based investigate, why didn't mafia take that as a soft claim and try to kill you? If it was a generic promise to investigate, why didn't the serial killer attempt to kill a claimed peaceful. The more death helps the serial killer, so even if the first claim was false and the second true, they'd still gain a lot. Having you alive is boggling my mind right now.

Again it'd also be really nice if you can explain where the Sheriff has zero happiness from too. There's no guarantee any specific role followed the plans here and no prior plans of discussing the Sheriff. A majority, as evidenced by the numbers, but the only person who definitively contributed in Candy Crush Saga. I'm still pissed off as fuck that we actually built that over night. It's way too soon.

It's also mighty goddamn convenient that you drop your whole "investigate Cut and Run" during the night and are not prodding me. This should get a big 0.o from players here.

So explain.

[2048]

Vine
2048
Good for stopping feeding the very likely scum. Although I am disappointed that since you could be back in 3 hours there's not more activity or a poke or a prod or something for you to check back in the am. Scum wins when town quits posting, so if you are town like I think you are, then come out to play some more.


Soooo sorry... Came home to take a shower instead of post right away <.<;

Anyways:


If we decided that only day-revealing roles should get the extra vote, it would be suicidal for scum to go for it.

Which wonder powers and how do they plan to use them?

*demands more*

Pretty much all Wonders provide scum with something. New Great Pyramids could help them secure trust within the town as well as intel. However town would get more of the benefit if we got it.
New Statue of Liberty is more powerful to mafia than town because they know who their allies are. We don't.
New Eiffel Tower is great for disguiser and nuclear(well not sure about great for town on that part..) as well as any other PR in general.
New Stonehenge is well... situational..

But pretty much any wonder that scum can deny town is good for them and vice-versa. Thought that was kinda obvious, you even said so yourself.

[2048]

Instagram(snip) If it was a generic promise to investigate, why didn't the serial killer attempt to kill a claimed peaceful. The more death helps the serial killer, so even if the first claim was false and the second true, they'd still gain a lot. (snip)
Why would the sk even want to kill a peaceful? Night killing a peaceful is bad for the sk. It means a lesser chance that a peaceful will be lynched during the day.

[Cut the Rope]

Why would the sk even want to kill a peaceful? Night killing a peaceful is bad for the sk. It means a lesser chance that a peaceful will be lynched during the day.

I was trying to explain that I don't believe that Instagram is a peaceful. Instagram's claim to be a peaceful with the threat to investigate me doesn't jive up. If they are a peaceful then they still get more death which is helpful for their win-con.

[2048]

I was trying to explain that I don't believe that Instagram is a peaceful. Instagram's claim to be a peaceful with the threat to investigate me doesn't jive up. If they are a peaceful then they still get more death which is helpful for their win-con.

I'm still trying to understand what you mean when you say 'more death'

[Instagram]

Instagram

Nice of you to join us. I'm curious as to why you are still alive.
At first you claim peaceful and run with it. Then you at the end of the day say you're going to "investigate" me through the night. If it was a power based investigate, why didn't mafia take that as a soft claim and try to kill you? If it was a generic promise to investigate, why didn't the serial killer attempt to kill a claimed peaceful. The more death helps the serial killer, so even if the first claim was false and the second true, they'd still gain a lot. Having you alive is boggling my mind right now.

Again it'd also be really nice if you can explain where the Sheriff has zero happiness from too. There's no guarantee any specific role followed the plans here and no prior plans of discussing the Sheriff. A majority, as evidenced by the numbers, but the only person who definitively contributed in Candy Crush Saga. I'm still pissed off as fuck that we actually built that over night. It's way too soon.

It's also mighty goddamn convenient that you drop your whole "investigate Cut and Run" during the night and are not prodding me. This should get a big 0.o from players here.

So explain.

Uh, I thought it was obvious why I was still alive, I already claimed peaceful so seriously I am like the last person that the Warmongers would have targeted.

As for the assertion that the Doomsday Killer would target peacefuls. I have no idea how that logic, at this stage in the game the Doomsday Killer wants to kill Town PRS just as much as the Warmongers .

As for the Sheriff having 0 Happiness why don't you take a quick glance at the rules and answer that yourself. Keep in mind that the Sheriff obviously took a night action last night, and it would be ridiculous not to spend production the EC last night so if we don't agree to build the WC tonight then it means the Sheriff has to build the Residential Area and can't work on either wonders or get the bonuses from helping Hunger Games.