M-FM XXIV Civilization Gamethread

[King Terenas Menethil]

Day 1 - New York

Since the massacre at Paris, the peaceful nations found it hard to establish long-term relationships with other nations. Foolishly but wisely, the leaders concentrated their time on the home front, ignoring the world stage. But as the future taught us, if there was a keystone ingredient for progress, it was international cooperation.

So a global meeting at New York was called. Everyone answered the call, for failing to attend would surely result in denouncements and wars. The sharper Peaceseekers perceived this meant the warmongers and killers are among them. The Warmongers perceived this meant they can claim the world for themselves. The Doomsday Killer perceived this meant he can bring back Armageddon. As for the Researcher, he's content that there are others on the world stage to share his inventions with.

As you attempt to fulfill your purpose in the United Nations, don't forget to keep your subjects happy and your infrastructure updated.

Living players:
Flappy Bird
iFunny
Kik
Bloons TD
Instagram
SnapChat
Angry Birds
QuizUp
Clash of Clans
2048
4pics1word
Candy Crush Saga
Cut The Rope
Fruit Ninja
Temple Run
Words with Friends
Tapatalk
Vine
Piano Tiles
Fall Down

11

Setup link: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/26194-M-FM-Civilization?
Day 1 will open at: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=June+16+5%3A00+PM+PST
Day 1 will end at: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=June+18+5%3A00+PM+PST

[King Terenas Menethil]

WAYPOINTS:
Setup (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/26194-M-FM-Civilization?)
Day 1 Start (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449057&viewfull=1#post449057)
Day 2 Start (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449719&viewfull=1#post449719)
Day 3 Start (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=450521&viewfull=1#post450521)
Day 4 Start (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=451214&viewfull=1#post451214)
Day 5 Start (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=451725&viewfull=1#post451725)
Nights are right before day starts so they will not be listed.

[2048]

Yes! the Death and Destruction all start now!

[Tapatalk]

Buckle up ladies, because Tippensprechen isn't waiting till halfway through day 1 to inject serious discussion right into this thread's testicles.

Kick-ass Topic 1: Wonders
Wonders are pretty kick-ass and I'm adamant many of you are interesting in using them to compensate for your small... population. I believe everyone can agree that is it in the interest of peace to avoid wonder-sniping another peaceful(resulting in the loss of 25% of their production). The problem is that announcing that your plan to build a wonder would be down right retarded.

DO NOT ANNOUNCE THAT YOU PLAN TO BUILD A WONDER.
You might as well walk up to Hitler and show him your circumcised dick.


Kick-ass Topic 2: Day 1 Lynch
Detainers and Jailors are both nationally a lazy, do nothing people and can only jail a target on a no-lynch day. Lynches are sick nasty and history is my bitch as non-lynch days are extremely rare in older M-FMs and almost entirely found on the first day or in the endgame. If a Detainer is going to have a change to kill someone before his mid-game siesta it will have to be done tonight. During the interim between Day 1 and end game, if the Detainer survives, he will have the opportunity to build a school and gain another kill charge so he won't be impotent.

Kick-ass Topic 3: Helicopter Party
As a gesture of good-will and openness we should all drop-trow and wave our dicks around to show we have nothing to hide from each other.
YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS

Kick-ass Topic 4: Forges and Factories
I crunched some numbers and for the first 6 nights, it is more efficient to forgo building a forge. First 7 nights for the Factory. In the below graph production used to build a forge is listed in red, production used to build a factory is listed in yellow.
http://i.imgur.com/a8ldn0Z.png
A peaceful rushing a factory killed on or before night 4 will waste 100% of their production.
Peacefuls for whom happiness and action buildings are useless should jump straight to a wonder or international project.

Kick-ass Topic 5: Kick-ass Topic 3
Seriously, we should Helicopter.

[Fruit Ninja]

Good day my homies.

-Vote Flappy Bird

This is for all the rage you gave my friends.

[Fruit Ninja]

When do we submit what we want our production to go too?

[King Terenas Menethil]

When do we submit what we want our production to go too?

Night Phase.

[Bloons TD]

Are all the things Tapatalk mentioned actual mechanics? o.0

[Clash of Clans]

This is the part where I say hello.

This is the part where I start building my level 2 town hall (not that it makes a difference).

[2048]

Good day my homies.

-Vote Flappy Bird

This is for all the rage you gave my friends.
This or Angry Birds

[2048]

Are all the things Tapatalk mentioned actual mechanics? o.0

Did you not read the setup? But yes, for the most part, a factory truly can waste your production. It is more meant for a long term game......which I doubt most will make it to.

[Clash of Clans]

Read up on the production stuff everyone.

tl;dr:

Everyone gains 6 production every night; if you don't use production one night half is saved for the following night
Using production is an additional night action everyone has

If there is a tie for most production in an international production, how is the most-contribution benefit given? Randomly or to all with most production?

[King Terenas Menethil]

Read up on the production stuff everyone.

tl;dr:

Everyone gains 6 production every night; if you don't use production one night half is saved for the following night
Using production is an additional night action everyone has

If there is a tie for most production in an international production, how is the most-contribution benefit given? Randomly or to all with most production?

Random.

[2048]

As for International Projects, non-peacefuls will most surely want to be the top contributor of Extraterrestrial Colonization. That way a townie isn't verified against them.

[Clash of Clans]

Town should not be building Forge/Factory per Tapatalk's number-crunch.

If you are a TPR, there are more important buildings to make
If you are Citizen, you shouldn't be playing to live to Night 6 on. Die for thy betters!

Hunger Games production and Extraterrestrial Civ seem pretty pro-town. Additionally, it is publicly revealed whether they have been completed.

For Hunger Games, once it's produced can we buy the auto-vest at anytime or only when it is first produced?


I HAVE A PROPOSAL


All Town Citizen Peacefuls should spend all 6 of their production on ExtraTerrestrial Civilization.

If it is not completed tonight, we know we have less than 10 citizens. This gives 2 extra production to all our citizens. Even if scum jump in to do this, they lose out on building anything else AND there are more town than scum that can gain the extra production.

Thoughts?

[Tapatalk]

As for International Projects, non-peacefuls will most surely want to be the top contributor of Extraterrestrial Colonization. That way a townie isn't verified against them.

Yes, which is why Peacefuls should rush the International Projects and Wonders. If warmongers use two night actions they will lose happiness and won't be able out produce the Peacefuls.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Fruit Ninja]

Okay, for a plan I believe we should set prioritys on who to eliminate first.

1. Doomsday Killer
2. Killing Warmongers
3. Supportive/Manipulative Warmongers
4. Investigative Warmongers
5. Researcher

We should try and eliminate the Doomsday Killer as soon as possible, because if we kill the Warmongers first then the Doomsday Killer gets an extra kill.

[King Terenas Menethil]

Town should not be building Forge/Factory per Tapatalk's number-crunch.

If you are a TPR, there are more important buildings to make
If you are Citizen, you shouldn't be playing to live to Night 6 on. Die for thy betters!

Hunger Games production and Extraterrestrial Civ seem pretty pro-town. Additionally, it is publicly revealed whether they have been completed.

For Hunger Games, once it's produced can we buy the auto-vest at anytime or only when it is first produced?


I HAVE A PROPOSAL


All Town Citizen Peacefuls should spend all 6 of their production on ExtraTerrestrial Civilization.

If it is not completed tonight, we know we have less than 10 citizens. This gives 2 extra production to all our citizens. Even if scum jump in to do this, they lose out on building anything else AND there are more town than scum that can gain the extra production.

Thoughts?

Anytime.

[Bloons TD]

I'm down for the helicopter fest, but will have to read up on the other topics later.

[2048]

Okay, for a plan I believe we should set prioritys on who to eliminate first.

1. Doomsday Killer
2. Killing Warmongers
3. Supportive/Manipulative Warmongers
4. Investigative Warmongers
5. Researcher

We should try and eliminate the Doomsday Killer as soon as possible, because if we kill the Warmongers first then the Doomsday Killer gets an extra kill.
It's more of a deal of finding any non-town....in general..

[2048]

Okay, for a plan I believe we should set prioritys on who to eliminate first.

1. Doomsday Killer
2. Killing Warmongers
3. Supportive/Manipulative Warmongers
4. Investigative Warmongers
5. Researcher

We should try and eliminate the Doomsday Killer as soon as possible, because if we kill the Warmongers first then the Doomsday Killer gets an extra kill.
Actually it doesn't really matter, sure it would be nice if we killed Doomsday Killer first, however if we still kill all of the Warmongers first, that would be -1 KPN due to Wars gone, but +1 KPN due to Doomsday.

Also however, if Warmongers are killed, their night actions could have normally been wasted on the Doomsday Killer, another possible -1 KPN is removed. So yes, ideally Doomsday should be the first to go, but let's not let that prevent scummy lynches.

[Fruit Ninja]

Well of course not, but if we have to make a choice, it should be Doomsday Killer.

[Tapatalk]

Okay, for a plan I believe we should set prioritys on who to eliminate first.

1. Doomsday Killer
2. Killing Warmongers
3. Supportive/Manipulative Warmongers
4. Investigative Warmongers
5. Researcher

We should try and eliminate the Doomsday Killer as soon as possible, because if we kill the Warmongers first then the Doomsday Killer gets an extra kill.

At this point in the game I consider a Nuclear more dangerous to Peace than the Researcher.

[Fruit Ninja]

A Nuclear is basically an uberlante. We can only hope no one stupid has that role.

[2048]

At this point in the game I consider a Nuclear more dangerous to Peace than the Researcher.

Granted, but yes....Nuclear....please do not use your night action randomly.

[Fruit Ninja]

In the setup is says roles are randomized, do Peacefuls have a higher chance of appearing or not?

[Tapatalk]

In the setup is says roles are randomized, do Peacefuls have a higher chance of appearing or not?

I can tell you with reasonable certainty that the host will reply with "No Comment".

You aren't meant to know. But it is my assumption that there will be few if any Peacefuls among the random roles.

[King Terenas Menethil]

I can tell you with reasonable certainty that the host will reply with "No Comment".

You aren't meant to know. But it is my assumption that there will be few if any Peacefuls among the random roles.

^^

[Fruit Ninja]

Okay this will be useful in role speculation further into the game.

[Cut the Rope]

Morning. And discussion sounds awesome. I'm just going to need some clarifications on a few things.
TapATalk
Kick Ass Topic 1:
This makes sense. I love this idea. Trust me. If I had a dick I wouldn't be waving it around for all to see.

Kick Ass Topic 2:
Just because people have abilities doesn't always mean they should be used. I'd leave it up to the role in question. My God this almost sounds like advocating a no lynch and having a fuck tun of chaos. Not cool man. I'd rather try to find the Warmongers or Serial Killer and lynch them if we can. There are role with and without powers. The more we can let townies build happiness we win. If the person uses their powers, then they alter strategy accordingly.

I'm almost wondering if this is a scumslip because how would anyone assume there is or is not a Detainer/Jailer in the game. There were a fuck ton of roles out there and if we play on the assumption that a certain role is out there this can spell disaster.

Kick Ass Point 3:
Again, no dick here so nothing to wave around. Just keep it in your pants won't you.

Kick Ass Point 4:
This assumes the game goes on for 8 nights. It's quite possible with scum and an SK that there could be two night kills every night. If we lynch a townie during that day we could lose 3 players every night. 20-3 (day/night 1)=17-3(day/night 2)=14-3(day/night 3)=11-3(day/night 4) = 8. So we are guaranteed at least 4 days but it is a serious gamble that a player would be here for 8 nights. Just guessing we're probably looking at 6-7 at best, especially if/when guns or vests come into play.

Oh and also your math is wrong. For the No Forge/No Factory column -- 9 times 6 is 54. Let's just say I hate small errors.
I also disagree with happiness buildings being useless for someone regardless of whether or not they have a power. We need the peacefuls to not jester. If anyone jesters we are in trouble because it helps the scum. Good lord. Having every peaceful on a fucking wonder is goddamn suicide for us because then if they get actioned to have -1 happiness while building it's called SCREWED.

Kick Ass Point 5:

If you wish to flash yourself...I will be far...far away from your trolling ass enjoying a beer, because if those were actual suggestions they are ridiculous.


Clash of Clans
I disagree with your proposal. For one thing it lets scum hurt us on the happiness mechanic. Especially if any townie uses powers tonight.
We also have no idea how much production until completion on each International Project and Extraterrestrial Colonization doesn’t reveal the top contributor. The rules specifically state:
International Projects -- The production costs on these are intensely high, so much that only by working together can they be completed. Productions spent on International Projects are pooled together until they are finished. Each I.P. can only be built one time the entire game. Extraneous production will not be refunded, but will count towards your contribution. Top contributor will be revealed for all, EXCEPT Extraterrestrial Colonization.

And in the question thread the mods confirm we don’t get top contributor.
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/26194-M-FM-Civilization?p=448697&viewfull=1#post448697

So we won’t even get a single conf townie and I think the mod did not update the paragraph like MathBlade asked in this post http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/26194-M-FM-Civilization?p=448984&viewfull=1#post448984

Again not so much loving this plan either.

Mods can you please confirm if TOP contributor is revealed for the Extraterrestrial Colonization project as I believe it won’t be?

Instead we need to make sure to keep our happiness and other production up. I may or may not perform these actions but by God I’m not going to telegraph to scum what I am doing. It's also possible that scum may contribute to get the minor benefit but not the major. I think the focus has to be on scum hunting first and mechanics second.

All
I think announcing any plan would be harmful because them scum can counter in the night phase. I’m not planning on sharing what I’m doing tonight unless I get a really good argument as to why. So far these ones don't hold weight to me.

[2048]

the Top contributpr for Extraterrestrial is only revealed if he is peaceful

[2048]

the Top contributpr for Extraterrestrial is only revealed if he is peaceful

Otherwise it would confirm the top contributor as scum, which would be pointless

[Cut the Rope]

Both the paragraph and the section on Extraterrestrial are in conflict so I would prefer to have a clarification from the mod if you don't mind. It would make things clearer.

[Tapatalk]

Morning. And discussion sounds awesome. I'm just going to need some clarifications on a few things.
TapATalk
Kick Ass Topic 1:
This makes sense. I love this idea. Trust me. If I had a dick I wouldn't be waving it around for all to see.

Kick Ass Topic 2:
Just because people have abilities doesn't always mean they should be used. I'd leave it up to the role in question. My God this almost sounds like advocating a no lynch and having a fuck tun of chaos. Not cool man. I'd rather try to find the Warmongers or Serial Killer and lynch them if we can. There are role with and without powers. The more we can let townies build happiness we win. If the person uses their powers, then they alter strategy accordingly.

I'm almost wondering if this is a scumslip because how would anyone assume there is or is not a Detainer/Jailer in the game. There were a fuck ton of roles out there and if we play on the assumption that a certain role is out there this can spell disaster.

Kick Ass Point 3:
Again, no dick here so nothing to wave around. Just keep it in your pants won't you.

Kick Ass Point 4:
This assumes the game goes on for 8 nights. It's quite possible with scum and an SK that there could be two night kills every night. If we lynch a townie during that day we could lose 3 players every night. 20-3 (day/night 1)=17-3(day/night 2)=14-3(day/night 3)=11-3(day/night 4) = 8. So we are guaranteed at least 4 days but it is a serious gamble that a player would be here for 8 nights. Just guessing we're probably looking at 6-7 at best, especially if/when guns or vests come into play.

Oh and also your math is wrong. For the No Forge/No Factory column -- 9 times 6 is 54. Let's just say I hate small errors.
I also disagree with happiness buildings being useless for someone regardless of whether or not they have a power. We need the peacefuls to not jester. If anyone jesters we are in trouble because it helps the scum. Good lord. Having every peaceful on a fucking wonder is goddamn suicide for us because then if they get actioned to have -1 happiness while building it's called SCREWED.

Kick Ass Point 5:

If you wish to flash yourself...I will be far...far away from your trolling ass enjoying a beer, because if those were actual suggestions they are ridiculous.



Orange - I'm confused and irritated by your response. I don't know how you came to that conclusion from what I wrote.

Blue - Peacefuls do not have night actions to gain unhappiness. A cultural would have to visit a peaceful 4 times to turn a peaceful into a jester.

Yellow - Topic three was obviously meant a joke and five was a four word reference to three. As one, two and four were entirely serious discussion points I find myself once again confused and irritated trying to figure out what exactly you are saying here?

[Cut the Rope]

Orange - I'm confused and irritated by your response. I don't know how you came to that conclusion from what I wrote.

Blue - Peacefuls do not have night actions to gain unhappiness. A cultural would have to visit a peaceful 4 times to turn a peaceful into a jester.

Yellow - Topic three was obviously meant a joke and five was a four word reference to three. As one, two and four were entirely serious discussion points I find myself once again confused and irritated trying to figure out what exactly you are saying here?

I'll keep your labels I just hate coloring makes shit hard to read sometimes.

Point 1 Orange) Did I miss something? I believe you suggested for the Detainer/Jailer to use their power. To do that requires a no lynch like you said. I'm for scum hunting instead and if we come to no lynch through the natural flow then we do but I think if we do then we lose a chance to catch scum.

Point 2 Blue) I agree with that peacefuls do not have "actions" to use. Culturals are not the only thing that can decrease a players happiness though. Lots of roles add/steal happiness and it is only 3 times before they become a Jester as players start off with 0. If they get to -3 they become a Jester.

Point 3 Yellow) I'm not trying to do anything. I was just responding to your discussion. I'm sorry if you are irritated I just disagree with what your plan is and prefer my not advertise to scum what I'm doing plan. And unless someone can explain to me how there's something better, I'm not sharing.

[Fall Down]

@Blue I'll check but I'm pretty sure everyone starts off with one happiness.

I'll write a wall on thoughts soon, but I think this is a pretty important thing to check.

[Tapatalk]

I'll keep your labels I just hate coloring makes shit hard to read sometimes.

Point 1 Orange) Did I miss something? I believe you suggested for the Detainer/Jailer to use their power. To do that requires a no lynch like you said. I'm for scum hunting instead and if we come to no lynch through the natural flow then we do but I think if we do then we lose a chance to catch scum.

Point 2 Blue) I agree with that peacefuls do not have "actions" to use. Culturals are not the only thing that can decrease a players happiness though. Lots of roles add/steal happiness and it is only 3 times before they become a Jester as players start off with 0. If they get to -3 they become a Jester.

Point 3 Yellow) I'm not trying to do anything. I was just responding to your discussion. I'm sorry if you are irritated I just disagree with what your plan is and prefer my not advertise to scum what I'm doing plan. And unless someone can explain to me how there's something better, I'm not sharing.

1. It was the opposite, I was suggesting even taking a risky lynch today to prevent the detainer from being able to use his 1 kill.

2. Please list the other ways a Peaceful can lose happiness. The setup page says "All nations start with 1 Happiness."

[King Terenas Menethil]

Mods can you please confirm if TOP contributor is revealed for the Extraterrestrial Colonization project as I believe it won’t be?


Both the paragraph and the section on Extraterrestrial are in conflict so I would prefer to have a clarification from the mod if you don't mind. It would make things clearer.

The top contributor for Extraterrestrial Colonization will only be revealed if Peaceseeker alignment. This confirms the person as Town. If that person is not town, the top contributor will not be revealed publicly, keeping them hidden.

[Fall Down]

All nations start with 1 Happiness. Using a night action (guns and vests included) lowers your happiness by 1 for each action including additional night actions (ex: Jailors). If you are NOT a Peaceful, you will gain 1 Happiness for nights that you don't take any action. Certain things happen depending on your roles when your Happiness is high, and when your Happiness is low (negative Happiness = positive Unhappiness). It's possible for Happiness to be 0, in which case it'll be referred to as 0 Happiness. There are roles and production factors that can help your happiness levels. Jesters are immune to any happiness benefits or detriments. Happiness effects are NOT cumulative. Unhappiness effects ARE cumulative.So yeah one happiness.

[Fruit Ninja]

I don't have any throughts about anything else right now, so I'm just going to hang back 'cause my internet will prob go out soon.

[Cut the Rope]

My bad on the 1 happiness start thing. Thank you. I will adjust accordingly...So yes it is 4 times.

Mods: And on the EC I appreciate the clarification.

[2048]

It was stated at building/production is a additional night action.

If this is the case, can we still assign production if we are roleblocked/jailed?

[King Terenas Menethil]

It was stated at building/production is a additional night action.

If this is the case, can we still assign production if we are roleblocked/jailed?

Nope, you'll be blocked from it. Half of the unspent production will carry on to the next night.

[Fruit Ninja]

Filibuster
At night, you may visit another player and talk all night, causing them to be role blocked and production blocked. Immune to other roleblocks. 3 usages.


Jailor
During the day, you may target a player to kidnap them. At night, if no lynch took place the previous day, you will share a night chat with them, separating them from their night chat if they have one, roleblocking and protecting them from night death. You may choose to execute them, but this action is only accepted if you type "-EXECUTE" in bold red print in the jail chat. 1 execution allowed.

I'm assuming no.

Edit: Damn you United Nations....

[2048]

Nope, you'll be blocked from it. Half of the unspent production will carry on to the next night.

So that is one way to prevent a player from building....... I imagined that it wouldn't affect it... Good thing I asked

[Tapatalk]

It was stated at building/production is a additional night action.

If this is the case, can we still assign production if we are roleblocked/jailed?

I had assumed that was a syntactical misstep by the mods.

I believed this because it would be impossible to attain positive happiness. You would through yourself much further into the hole building a happiness structure.

Does building/production cause unhappiness?

If so, will a player that does a standard action and building/production gain 2 unhappiness for the night?

[Fruit Ninja]

Before you modkill me keep in mind that I didn't actually edit the post, I just reviewed the post because you posted it.

Please don't kill me.

[2048]

Before you modkill me keep in mind that I didn't actually edit the post, I just reviewed the post because you posted it.

Please don't kill me.

Wait....what..?

[Cut the Rope]

1. It was the opposite, I was suggesting even taking a risky lynch today to prevent the detainer from being able to use his 1 kill.

2. Please list the other ways a Peaceful can lose happiness. The setup page says "All nations start with 1 Happiness."

1. Ah sorry for my misunderstanding then.
2.
If they use a power granted to them. For example if a researcher has X of 1.
If they use a gun given by a crafter.
If they use a power given by a wonder this may or may not cause a peaceful to lose happiness.
There could also be things I haven't thought of.

[Cut the Rope]

Whoa....Fruit Ninja WTF?

[2048]

I don't think Fruit Ninja actually edited their post. It must of just popped up the "There are additional post made before you clicked Post Quick Reply".

The edit post option is disabled anyways.

[Fall Down]

I know that keeping the production secret is probably a good idea, but given that an International Project is built, I think all should reveal how much production they put towards it once it's all said and done. This should weed out any liars, and those who did nothing could be seen as potential scum.

If production donated to an International Project goes over the limit needed, then where does the extra production spent go? Is there any way we're alerted to if production is over the needed amount? If so, is this public or private communication?

If there's no way we can know if something was spent too much, then saying that someone spent production on it would be useless. But otherwise, I think what I stated originally might be able to work.

Thoughts?

[2048]

I know that keeping the production secret is probably a good idea, but given that an International Project is built, I think all should reveal how much production they put towards it once it's all said and done. This should weed out any liars, and those who did nothing could be seen as potential scum.


I can see how liars can be potential scum, but those who didn't do anything? Those that don't head for Int Projects may just have other plans.

[King Terenas Menethil]

Before you modkill me keep in mind that I didn't actually edit the post, I just reviewed the post because you posted it.

Please don't kill me.

You can't edit posts even if you tried lmao.

[Fruit Ninja]

I would very much like not dying k thnks.

[Fall Down]

I can see how liars can be potential scum, but those who didn't do anything? Those that don't head for Int Projects may just have other plans.It wouldn't paint black and white who scum is and who scum isn't, but I think that it would definitely help narrow it down. Now I see scum potentially helping build for the sake of looking inno, but then they would have to waste their production in order to try to guise themselves as this rather than making buildings for themselves.

[King Terenas Menethil]

I know that keeping the production secret is probably a good idea, but given that an International Project is built, I think all should reveal how much production they put towards it once it's all said and done. This should weed out any liars, and those who did nothing could be seen as potential scum.

If production donated to an International Project goes over the limit needed, then where does the extra production spent go? Is there any way we're alerted to if production is over the needed amount? If so, is this public or private communication?

If there's no way we can know if something was spent too much, then saying that someone spent production on it would be useless. But otherwise, I think what I stated originally might be able to work.

Thoughts?

Extra production counts towards contribution but won't be refunded. It's just gone. Poof.
You won't know how much you overshot or when it's too much. The project will just be completed the next day.

[2048]

It wouldn't paint black and white who scum is and who scum isn't, but I think that it would definitely help narrow it down. Now I see scum potentially helping build for the sake of looking inno, but then they would have to waste their production in order to try to guise themselves as this rather than making buildings for themselves.

Scum (or anyone) may just want to contribute for the additional production per night as well.

[Cut the Rope]

Thank God about the editing posts thing...Jesus don't scare me like that.

I won't agree to the plan because I won't reveal what I do. If I spend something on a project and it doesn't come to fruition I just say a few choice words in my head and move on. And like 2048 and myself said, contributing or not contributing to a project, doesn't give any information on alignment.

[Fall Down]

One last thought looking at the Set up: The Doomsday killer gains an extra kill if a Peaceful's lynched. So I think we have to weight the potential existence or lackthereof of Detainer vs potential chance that Doomsday could hit scum. I think if we have somewhat of an idea we should lynch, but other than that I'm a little nervous risking an extra kill get on the loose on the first day.

Ok, then never mind about my first idea. Scum could way too easily hide under that then.

[Vine]

Sup!

[Vine]

All Peacefuls should claim, so that, you know... Warmongers will be forced to kill us before we finish the Wonders. And the Doomsday Killer, like... cannot hide among us anymore.

*giggles*

[Fruit Ninja]

All Peacefuls should claim, so that, you know... Warmongers will be forced to kill us before we finish the Wonders. And the Doomsday Killer, like... cannot hide among us anymore.

*giggles*

A few notes.

1. Soft claim for Peaceful
2. Something about this seriously disturbs me.

[Vine]

A few notes.

1. Soft claim for Peaceful
2. Something about this seriously disturbs me.

It's called... setting the example, you silly.

*winks*

But really, won't it be great if all Peacefuls claimed, like... today? We are as important as any Peaceseeker, you know?

[Cut the Rope]

It's called... setting the example, you silly.

*winks*

But really, won't it be great if all Peacefuls claimed, like... today? We are as important as any Peaceseeker, you know?

OMG... stop talking...right now...

Just....no....That's beyond fucked up to have peacefuls claim right now...Just dear lord stop.

[2048]

Lol. So a peaceful claim it is

[Vine]

OMG... stop talking...right now...

Just....no....That's beyond fucked up to have peacefuls claim right now...Just dear lord stop.

*frowns*

But why? Could you please, like... explain?

[Tapatalk]

It's called... setting the example, you silly.

*winks*

But really, won't it be great if all Peacefuls claimed, like... today? We are as important as any Peaceseeker, you know?

Absolutely ridiculous.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Tapatalk]

*frowns*

But why? Could you please, like... explain?

I hesitate to entertain you but on the off chance you're serious; A wonder is no where near as good as a Power Role, the warmongers will still avoid Peacefuls.

[Temple Run]

Extraterrestrial Colonization>World Congress

unhappiness is more dangerous to scum than to town

[Vine]

Absolutely ridiculous.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I beg you... please explain, pretty please?

*pouts*

[Cut the Rope]

*frowns*

But why? Could you please, like... explain?

I'm going to assume this is your first game of mafia. I hope it is. Below are two reasons but not the only reasons that exclude a mass vanilla townie claim.

1) Assuming all players claim honestly - If all the vanilla townies claim then this leaves the scum to pick off the power roles one by one with night kills. Or if serial killer is alive potentially more than one by one.

All scum+serial killer has to do is paint a mislynch on a player that is truly a peaceful and then the serial killer gets two kills the following night which makes towns job even harder.

2) Assuming the power roles/scum lie and claim peaceful - Nothing is gained and why do it in the first place.


It's like on regular games with power set up roles. NEVER EVER mass claim early. It gives scum a great way to plan to victory.

[2048]

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Tapatalk is revealing your com...... So you're basically betraying yourself

[Fall Down]

All Peacefuls should claim, so that, you know... Warmongers will be forced to kill us before we finish the Wonders. And the Doomsday Killer, like... cannot hide among us anymore.

*giggles*I sense someone feigning ignorance in some way here. It could be a Costa Rica gambit, but I highly doubt that someone would take a game like this and be 0% serious, especially when the idea is anti-town. Reason it's anti-town, playing along with your game here, is because this gives mafia a clear shot on who to kill. In theory, a Mass RC could narrow it down significantly, but our TPRs would be gone before anything could actually be verified, leaving us with basically no night evidence.

[Fall Down]

Plus, I feel that the ignorance here is over exaggerated. There's a difference between actual ignorance and taking it too far, and I think this is the latter.

[Temple Run]

All Peacefuls should claim, so that, you know... Warmongers will be forced to kill us before we finish the Wonders. And the Doomsday Killer, like... cannot hide among us anymore.

*giggles*
now why would peacefuls build wonders?

[Cut the Rope]

There's so much just plain wrong with that post I agree with Fall Down but still gave some explanation for the benefit of the doubt.

Vine - If this truly is your first game we can talk later on it. *sigh*

[Clash of Clans]

It wouldn't paint black and white who scum is and who scum isn't, but I think that it would definitely help narrow it down. Now I see scum potentially helping build for the sake of looking inno, but then they would have to waste their production in order to try to guise themselves as this rather than making buildings for themselves.

A good analogy to this would be gambits, pushing town discussion forward, etc. Yeah scum may to it to gain towncred. But at the end of the day it net helps the town, and strong scum-hunting and night actions can do the rest


*frowns*

But why? Could you please, like... explain?


It's called... setting the example, you silly.

*winks*

But really, won't it be great if all Peacefuls claimed, like... today? We are as important as any Peaceseeker, you know?

Vine

If I'm reading correctly you're more experienced than you're letting off, and that was a horrible proposal from someone that has experience. You're preying on new players - what if a new player that rolled Peaceful went and claimed because of you? Yeah no

[Vine]

Plus, I feel that the ignorance here is over exaggerated. There's a difference between actual ignorance and taking it too far, and I think this is the latter.

*glares*

Hmph! I'll have you know I can count!

Doomsday Killer kills

Before claims:
14/19 (74% chance) to hit Town
9/19 (47% chance) to hit Peaceseekers
4/19 (21% chance) to hit Warmongers

After claims:
9/14 (64% chance) to hit Peaceseekers
4/14 (29% chance) to hit Warmongers
Naughty Doomsday Killer cannot hide anymore.
Peaceseeker actions are, like... more efficient.

[Clash of Clans]

Those of you that haven't, please set an Avatar. It helps differentiate players and it's a pretty important thing to do early on in D1



Clash of Clans
I disagree with your proposal. For one thing it lets scum hurt us on the happiness mechanic. Especially if any townie uses powers tonight.
We also have no idea how much production until completion on each International Project and Extraterrestrial Colonization doesn’t reveal the top contributor. The rules specifically state:
International Projects -- The production costs on these are intensely high, so much that only by working together can they be completed. Productions spent on International Projects are pooled together until they are finished. Each I.P. can only be built one time the entire game. Extraneous production will not be refunded, but will count towards your contribution. Top contributor will be revealed for all, EXCEPT Extraterrestrial Colonization.

And in the question thread the mods confirm we don’t get top contributor.
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/26194-M-FM-Civilization?p=448697&viewfull=1#post448697

So we won’t even get a single conf townie and I think the mod did not update the paragraph like MathBlade asked in this post http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/26194-M-FM-Civilization?p=448984&viewfull=1#post448984

Again not so much loving this plan either.

Mods can you please confirm if TOP contributor is revealed for the Extraterrestrial Colonization project as I believe it won’t be?

Instead we need to make sure to keep our happiness and other production up. I may or may not perform these actions but by God I’m not going to telegraph to scum what I am doing. It's also possible that scum may contribute to get the minor benefit but not the major. I think the focus has to be on scum hunting first and mechanics second.

All
I think announcing any plan would be harmful because them scum can counter in the night phase. I’m not planning on sharing what I’m doing tonight unless I get a really good argument as to why. So far these ones don't hold weight to me.

Thank you for being the only one to respond to my proposal. This idea was before the mods said we can buy a vest after Hunger Games at any time so I thought that would be a useless world wonder D1.

We do know that if all the Peacefuls put 6 production towards it they should be completed, or we have less than 10 citizens. Scum either contribute towards the production and thereby set a fake-claim of Peaceful, or we have a hard number of 9 as the max number of citizens.

Additionally, max contributor of extraterrestrial is mod-confirmed town if they are town. If all peacefuls put 6 production in tonight and it's produced, there's a very high chance it will be a citizen revealed. That forces scum to night kill vanilla confirmed town or search for TPRs, leaving the other alive which net helps the town.

So 1) Unless the RNG hates us we will get a confirmed town citizen revealed 2) it boosts the power of all citizens throughout the game for production 3) Scum are forced to play along or be in a worse lying position later

Keep in mind the extra 2 production means we can differentiate anyone that significantly contributed to the project. Any TPRs that think the extra production is worth it for them in the long-run can throw in 4 production tonight as well. Yes scum can do that too, but I think that net benefits town the most.

[Vine]

now why would peacefuls build wonders?

To deny Temple Run from building any!

*stares*

[Cut the Rope]

Vine, I think this sounds like someone on another forum I know of would do. Are you trying to meta copy? I really want an explanation for this but you may be new. When I first played I did some really stupid stuff so I want to give you a chance.

Notice how the peace seekers are easier to hit :( ...And yes the doomsday killer can still hide. You are relying on people being honest.

@Clash of Clans - I'll look for one. I was trying to avoid changing the account as much as possible.

[Temple Run]

*glares*

Hmph! I'll have you know I can count!

Doomsday Killer kills

Before claims:
14/19 (74% chance) to hit Town
9/19 (47% chance) to hit Peaceseekers
4/19 (21% chance) to hit Warmongers

After claims:
9/14 (64% chance) to hit Peaceseekers
4/14 (29% chance) to hit Warmongers
Naughty Doomsday Killer cannot hide anymore.
Peaceseeker actions are, like... more efficient.
lol

[Fall Down]

*glares*

Hmph! I'll have you know I can count!

Doomsday Killer kills

Before claims:
14/19 (74% chance) to hit Town
9/19 (47% chance) to hit Peaceseekers
4/19 (21% chance) to hit Warmongers

After claims:
9/14 (64% chance) to hit Peaceseekers
4/14 (29% chance) to hit Warmongers
Naughty Doomsday Killer cannot hide anymore.
Peaceseeker actions are, like... more efficient.You provide no explanation to your numbers here. First off, why did the number go from 19 to 14? Second off, everyone would just claim Cit because they don't want to be shot by mafia or if they're scum they're going to want to hide.

You didn't exactly deny my accusation either... so I'm taking that as a confirmation of it.

[Vine]

lol

Temple Run for selective reading.

*blows a raspberry*

[Fall Down]

Oh yeah and saying that "you'll have me know you can count" adds more to this whole scene you're setting up. It's so obvious it's kind of funny xD I'm willing to let you play your WIFOM games for now, but at least try to be productive while you're at it.

And now "blows a raspberry". You're digging your hole of non-credibility deeper and deeper :/

[Vine]

I sense someone feigning ignorance in some way here. It could be a Costa Rica gambit, but I highly doubt that someone would take a game like this and be 0% serious, especially when the idea is anti-town. Reason it's anti-town, playing along with your game here, is because this gives mafia a clear shot on who to kill. In theory, a Mass RC could narrow it down significantly, but our TPRs would be gone before anything could actually be verified, leaving us with basically no night evidence.

What is Costa Rica gambit? And I am serious!

Why do you need night evidence when it's scum versus five confirmed Peacefuls?

[Vine]

You're digging your hole of non-credibility deeper and deeper :/

The type of phrases scum will say to cause mislynches.

*proud*

[Fall Down]

What is Costa Rica gambit? And I am serious!

Why do you need night evidence when it's scum versus five confirmed Peacefuls?Wait, I meant South Korea. I doubt that'll clear much up but South Korea.

I'm not saying you are scum at all Vine, I'm saying that by the statements you're making and to me the apparent disregard of day, I'm having a hard time taking you seriously. Sorry, it's the truth. I'd recommend cut it out with the RP and at least try to act a little serious. And back up your claims with evidence as well.

[Piano Tiles]

So I had to look up what the fuck my thing was and found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gG4RdCMaqY

Enjoy! I'm going to try to fix something and check back.

[Fall Down]

Basically the South Korea gambit was a user named "South Korea" in the previous FM played in a somewhat similar fashion where they acted scummy on purpose and like they were making quite useless posts, but not enough for real suspicion to be shed on him. Too scummy to be killed by mafia, not scummy enough to be killed by Town. Turns out, he was a powerful role, Vigilante. This deliberate act of acting on the edge of scummy but not complete FOS is what I'm saying you're doing right now.

[Piano Tiles]

Oh btw when I first looked at my FM name, I thought it Titties.

[Piano Tiles]

Said it*.

[Cut the Rope]

Vine, I think this sounds like someone on another forum I know of would do. Are you trying to meta copy? I really want an explanation for this but you may be new. When I first played I did some really stupid stuff so I want to give you a chance.

Notice how the peace seekers are easier to hit :( ...And yes the doomsday killer can still hide. You are relying on people being honest.

@Clash of Clans - I'll look for one. I was trying to avoid changing the account as much as possible.


Vine

You ignored this post and are seemingly copying meta of a player on a different forum...This all feels very fake to me. Depending on the response I may move my vote but I want some explanations.

[Cut the Rope]

Oh and anyone else that posts like they haven't made it through puberty will be ignored, trolled, or mocked depending on my mood.

[Quizup]

Vine's town. Leave them alone.

-Vote Fruit Ninja
SK hunting is a scumtell, bro. You can die now.

The mechanics stuff is going over my head at the moment.

[Fall Down]

Vine's town. Leave them alone.

-Vote Fruit Ninja
SK hunting is a scumtell, bro. You can die now.

The mechanics stuff is going over my head at the moment.What makes you so certain that Vine's town?

[Quizup]

My certainty does. Post 85 is what sold me on it.

What do you think of them?

[Quizup]

2048 is probably town as well.

[2048]

2048 is probably town as well.

Lies.


As for Vine, it is a call that hurts town more than wars. Sadly it's compelling but dangerous move to mass role call. So no.

[Vine]

Vine

You ignored this post and are seemingly copying meta of a player on a different forum...This all feels very fake to me. Depending on the response I may move my vote but I want some explanations.

*stunned*

Cut the Rope voted me for, like... unclear reasons.

copying meta: what meta?
of a player: who?
on a different forum: which forum?
feels very fake: I mean, like... how?

Not clever reasons to vote someone, I'm sure.

[Kik]

Sterling Archer is here. Let's do this shit. Been busy today. Catching up on day now.

[Fall Down]

My certainty does. Post 85 is what sold me on it.

What do you think of them?You can't use the cause as the effect lol. Obviously you seem certain of it, but you gotta have some sort of reasoning behind it besides "I know cause I know,". Cause that's so helpful.

I'm unsure what to think at the moment. It could be several things here:
- TPR trying to follow South Korea gambit
- Cit WIFOMing trying to follow South Korea gambit
- Mafian WIFOMing trying to follow South Korea gambit
- Doomsday wanting to make sure they stay alive on all sides and clear themselves tonight
- Researcher WIFOMing

I don't think there's any convicting evidence one way or another of their alignment, but I feel relatively certain based off of the over exaggerated posts she makes that she isn't telling the truth about her noobiness.

[Quizup]

I just did.

And yeah, the noobiness is clearly faked. Have you noticed that all of your scenarios preclude Vine being a Warmonger?

[Temple Run]

Temple Run for selective reading.

*blows a raspberry*
plz explain how the higher chance in our PRs getting hit is a good thing

[Instagram]

Snap, I missed the start of the day.

Hello everyone, I for one like the idea of peacefuls claiming out the gate, as such I would like to claim peaceful.

Enjoyed the pleasant discussion today, glad to see the trolls aren't in full force like usual. It gives me plenty of hope for how this game will turn out. I hope we can all maintain this atmosphere for the rest of the game, instead of resorting to the all too familiar mud slinging of the past.

Reading through I have yet to develop many reads, however one read strikes me quite strongly despite the current situation in the day. As such I would like to express my FOS on Fruit Ninja. I also was quite surprised by the fake vote from Quizip. If only I could know what was going through his mind.

I would like to formally thank the hosts for obliging my request to modify the production increment to 1 instead of .5. I mean did they seriously expect us to be good at math and stuff? This change will make it so much easier for me to divide my production efficiently amongst the various constructions projects.

Focusing my thoughts further on the various construction projects. I completely agree with rushing the Extraterrestrial Colonization, furthermore I would like to elaborate on the strategy. All Peaceseekers should contribute exactly 4 production tonight. All Peacefuls should contribute all 6 production. This provides a minimum production of 66! Meaning if a Peaceseeker gets Filibustered we will still complete the project!

Futhermore, this provides Peaceseeker PRS the additional benefit of NOT BEING REVEALED! It gives the Warmongers the dilemma of killing the confirmed Peaceful or attempting to hit a hidden Peaceseeker PR.

Fruit Ninja

[2048]

Will everyone actually do this; is the problem.

In all honesty I probably would not myself.

[Fruit Ninja]

I could care less who we vote atm, because nothing is truely known about who is who.

Vine
Sheep vote cause Vine is acting dumb.

[Fruit Ninja]

Night guiz.

[2048]

Doesn't anyone realize that a bad lynch means that there could be 2 more bad deaths instead of just 1....?

We aren't working with enough information.

[Temple Run]

I could care less who we vote atm, because nothing is truely known about who is who.

Vine
Sheep vote cause Vine is acting dumb.
this post is acting dumb

also remember that international projects benefit both town and scum, IMO PRs should focus on completing wonders so scum doesn't get them while cits complete the international project

[Temple Run]

Snap, I missed the start of the day.

Hello everyone, I for one like the idea of peacefuls claiming out the gate, as such I would like to claim peaceful.

Enjoyed the pleasant discussion today, glad to see the trolls aren't in full force like usual. It gives me plenty of hope for how this game will turn out. I hope we can all maintain this atmosphere for the rest of the game, instead of resorting to the all too familiar mud slinging of the past.

Reading through I have yet to develop many reads, however one read strikes me quite strongly despite the current situation in the day. As such I would like to express my FOS on Fruit Ninja. I also was quite surprised by the fake vote from Quizip. If only I could know what was going through his mind.

I would like to formally thank the hosts for obliging my request to modify the production increment to 1 instead of .5. I mean did they seriously expect us to be good at math and stuff? This change will make it so much easier for me to divide my production efficiently amongst the various constructions projects.

Focusing my thoughts further on the various construction projects. I completely agree with rushing the Extraterrestrial Colonization, furthermore I would like to elaborate on the strategy. All Peaceseekers should contribute exactly 4 production tonight. All Peacefuls should contribute all 6 production. This provides a minimum production of 66! Meaning if a Peaceseeker gets Filibustered we will still complete the project!

Futhermore, this provides Peaceseeker PRS the additional benefit of NOT BEING REVEALED! It gives the Warmongers the dilemma of killing the confirmed Peaceful or attempting to hit a hidden Peaceseeker PR.

Fruit Ninja

first, what makes you think claiming peaceful day1 will do?
second, when we confirm a peaceful, if say, that peaceful is not helpful in scumhuntting, it will just help scum narrow down TPRs

[2048]

TPR doesn't mean helpful in scum hunting either! ^.-

[2048]

I'm just finding so many contraindications in the posts lately. Everyone seems to have sort of bias between the roles/factions/player types that it produces pointless opinions that only make it 'look' useful.

[Vine]

Can we, like... discuss which roles should build which projects tonight? My head is woozy trying to think about it...

*faint*

[Vine]

Shouldn't Peaceseekers build happiness buildings to prevent their charges from being used up?

I'm, like... planning to build Wonders tonight to deny scums the pleasure of using them.

*poses*

[4pics1word]

Good day, dear Sirs and Madams. I will begin reading through the day and see if I have anything to add at the end of it.

[Tapatalk]

Tapatalk is revealing your com...... So you're basically betraying yourself

I've never used tapatalk before so I doubt it.


Sent from my Microwave using Tapatalk

[Quizup]

The Peacefuls need to stop claiming. Thanks.

Hey Fruit Ninja, I exist and I'm voting for you. Tell me why my vote should be else where.

Instagram is town.
Instagram: How about you explain your reasons and we can get into mine.

[2048]

Shouldn't Peaceseekers build happiness buildings to prevent their charges from being used up?

I'm, like... planning to build Wonders tonight to deny scums the pleasure of using them.

*poses*
Finally, someone with the same thought train as me

[Tapatalk]

Shouldn't Peaceseekers build happiness buildings to prevent their charges from being used up?

I'm, like... planning to build Wonders tonight to deny scums the pleasure of using them.

*poses*
Only one wonder makes any sense to apply to a class and that's the autovest one to the crafter. Otherwise the builder would either have to ensure the completion of the hunger games or reveal himself.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Tapatalk]

Finally, someone with the same thought train as me
Alternatively TPRs can skip their night action either tonight or tomorrow, and build full production to mass entertainment for tonight and N2 and on N3 they will have +4 happiness so that they can use their night action on N3 and N4 while only having used up a single charge by that point.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Tapatalk]

To reiterate, a TPR is more valuable than a wonder, if you aren't using your night ability then you may as well be a Peaceful

Sent from my Hobovan using Tapatalk

[Fall Down]

I just did.

And yeah, the noobiness is clearly faked. Have you noticed that all of your scenarios preclude Vine being a Warmonger?First of all, really? Honestly, using circular arguments by default have no backing, so you just literally told all of us "Yup, I think she's town cause she is." That doesn't explain anything.

And under the assumption no WIFOM is used, I would be thoroughly confused at the current moment over Vine, but yes I would think of her as scum because lying to the town's a bad, bad sign in mafia. Not necessarily Warmonger (where did you get that?) but scum. However, I don't believe this to be the case. I'm sorry if she is scum/not WIFOMing, but I don't think anyone would do such a piss poor job at day play like this. I mean I've seen examples of otherwise, but they at least try to take day seriously and don't RP every single post.

[2048]

And then it begins....

[Kik]

Fell asleep reading. Guess I was more tired than I thought. Have to go soon, but here's some stuff before I go. Some questions for the hosts:

Can production be spent on multiple buildings in one night?
If so, can production be spent on buildings that require buildings you don't have? (ex. could I put 4 into the forge and 2 in the factory for 2 nights, resulting in a finished forge with 4 already invested in the factory.)
Are top contributors always revealed? Or is it only for the Extraterrestrial Colonization peacekeeper and World Congress?

[Kik]

Did Hosts ever answer about spending production affecting happiness? If so, I missed it.

[Kik]

BTW I'm not a fan of the claiming plan. I doubt it will really hurt scum's ability to hide- they'll just claim power roles. And even if it did, we'd need everyone to claim for that to actually work, not just the peacekeepers.

[Quizup]

First of all, really? Honestly, using circular arguments by default have no backing, so you just literally told all of us "Yup, I think she's town cause she is." That doesn't explain anything.

And under the assumption no WIFOM is used, I would be thoroughly confused at the current moment over Vine, but yes I would think of her as scum because lying to the town's a bad, bad sign in mafia. Not necessarily Warmonger (where did you get that?) but scum. However, I don't believe this to be the case. I'm sorry if she is scum/not WIFOMing, but I don't think anyone would do such a piss poor job at day play like this. I mean I've seen examples of otherwise, but they at least try to take day seriously and don't RP every single post.
And there's my reasoning. I knew you would get there eventually. "Lynch all liars" is terrible advice, as townies lie all the time, whether unconsciously to support their own egos or intentionally to provoke certain responses. I for example, will often lie or at least withhold information more as town and scum.

Fall Down is townish.

[Cut the Rope]

*stunned*

Cut the Rope voted me for, like... unclear reasons.

copying meta: what meta?
of a player: who?
on a different forum: which forum?
feels very fake: I mean, like... how?

Not clever reasons to vote someone, I'm sure.

Wow... I'm pretty sure your questions indicate three things
1) That Vine is definitely faking being a newbie. You know the meaning of copying meta by asking what meta and the other items follow that.
2) That for some unknown reason Vine is only being defensive about my vote. For some reason Clash of Clans vote didn't cause Vine to be defensive.
{I am not including Fruit Ninja because there have been no posts by Vine since that timeframe}
3) That my reasoning is clear and you're digging for more information as to why. I would have expected at least a denial or you're nuts here from an experienced player or a what the hell is meta and copying it from a true newbie.

These reactions (along with the reactions of players following) cause me to believe a few things as a result:
1) At worst, Clash of Clans and yourself could be aligned Warmongers. At the least, there is some reason that you aren't defensive of their lynch vote and are of mine that really should be prodded more.
2) Quizup is buddying Vine although I don't know why. Either Quizup is from this other forum and believes Vine to be someone they aren't which would explain the weirdest about saying post 85 cinches their towniness. Post 85 IMO is a very good scum argument because Vine is picking and choosing which posts to respond to.

Furthermore in Fall Down's post that Quizup says excludes a the possibility of a Warmonger, mentions a specific possibility for a "Mafian" which I'm assuming is a warmonger. This seems very wrong to me.

3) Fall Down either knows something about the gender of Vine or picked up on the meta argument I made and believes Vine is me or is having a belief that Vine is female. I'm the only player who has openly said I'm female. TapATalk talked about waving his dick around so that presumably makes him male. Other than that I'm using gender neutral until each person says their respective gender.

Because of this I'm thinking that Vine/Clash/Quizup need some examination this evening to see what the hell is going on between these three. I like Fall Down as town because of how they are poking other players and how their responses have been written so far. But the gender mentioning to me is important.

And Vine please, start playing the game without the use of this gambit. At worst, you're copying mine from Dark Lord Potter and it's really, really annoying when it is copied like this. I still lend credence to this, because of a lack of a denial. At best, this is just some random weird gambit you came up with either on your own or with scum buddies. Based on this and the other posts that followed I am leaving my vote where it is. If you are town please give us an explanation so this can sort itself out.

To all, again we are NOT attempting to get everyone to announce what role they are or what production they are working on. It's way too early for that sort of claim. After the prior discussions in the thread, it should hopefully be painfully clear as to why.

And for those of you who haven't posted anything of substance please come on and start discussions. I really hate lurkers. Only 14/20 players have posted so far and not all of those have been substance worthy and are just hi and are not responding afterwards. I have to be out this evening with friends and would really like to have everyone posting in the thread before that point.

@Kik,
I don't think the hosts have responded to the questions posed yet. And yes, as I've stated numerous times, it's my opinion a mass claim of any sort (production or role) is not in the best interests of town and therefore I won't be participating in them.

[Fall Down]

And there's my reasoning. I knew you would get there eventually. "Lynch all liars" is terrible advice, as townies lie all the time, whether unconsciously to support their own egos or intentionally to provoke certain responses. I for example, will often lie or at least withhold information more as town and scum.

Fall Down is townish.You didn't answer why Warmonger lol.

If there's an absolute guarantee that WIFOM isn't involved, how is lying not scummy? That's intentional skewing of the day chat, which in a game when the majority is uninformed, the information we get needs to be factual or we get mislead. It's like we'd be doing the DD's job if we lie completely about this kind of stuff. I see why lying about roles may be needed, like a Peaceful claiming TPR to attract scum or a TPR claiming Peaceful to avoid attention, but you say lying in general, which also includes lying about night feedback, ect. Unless telling the truth completely screws you over, then yeah I think the lynch all liars thing is a relatively good principle to follow.

[Fall Down]

I guess I see your point regarding reaction testing and stuff, but I don't get the ego part. If they're playing mafia to stroke their ego, no offense, but they deserve to be lynched ._.

[Vine]

Hi! I'm think, like... I'm new! Cut the Rope is a meanie.

*concentrates*


World Congress -- 60 Production
Welcome a new age of international diplomacy! When the World Congress is built, everyone who contributed at least 4 Production will gain 2 Happiness. Top contributor will gain an extra vote.
Bonus recommended for: Day revealing roles (Chief, Speaker, Marshall)
Scums interested: Actor, Disguiser, Veteran


Hunger Games -- 50 Production
With a new era comes a new entertainment! When the Hunger Games is established, everyone who contributed at least 4 Production will be able to spend 10 productions to create a one-use vest. Top contributor will earn a one-use gun.
Bonus recommended for: Anyone
Scums interested: All


Extraterrestrial Colonization -- 60 Production
Using salvaged Antebellum technology, scientists can continue to work on colonizing the Moon. When Extraterrestrial Colonization is successfully accomplished, everyone who contributed at least 4 Production will gain +2 Production per night. If Peaceseeker, Top contributor will be confirmed as Peaceseeker. Otherwise, nothing will happen. Top contributor will not be revealed in that case.
Bonus recommended for: Investigative roles (Sheriff, Investigator, Coroner, Lookout, Detective, Filibuster, Jailor)
Scums interested: All


New Great Pyramids -- 16 Production
Choose another player. You will share a night chat with that player until he/she dies. When he/she dies, you may pick another player to share a night chat with (max once).
Bonus recommended for: Anyone
Scums interested: Actor, Disguiser



New Statue of Liberty -- 16 Production
Happiness +1. You have a one-use Audit to use on another player. Hitting a Warmongers member will cause them to only be able to perform factional kills, hitting a Peaceseeker will convert them into a Peaceful, no effect on anyone else.
Bonus recommended for: Anyone
Scums interested: All


New Eiffel Tower -- 16 Production
Happiness +1. All charges of your ability are refilled. If you are a role that starts with 0 charges, you will gain 1 charge.
Bonus recommended for: Investigative and protective roles
Scums interested: Almost all


New Stonehenge -- 16 Production
Happiness + 2. All current vests you own become auto-vests.
Bonus recommended for: Anyone who received manual vests.

[Vine]

Role

Construction for




N1
N2
N3


Chief






Speaker





Marshall





Sheriff





Investigator





Coroner





Cultural





Doctor





Secret Service





Lookout





Detective





Crafter





Filibuster





Jailor





Nuclear





Peaceful






I would really love anyone who is sweet enough fill in the blanks.

*twinkle*

[Cut the Rope]

Vine...I'm done seriously. I'm not being mean I've given every chance to explain yourself gently while explaining flaws in the posts and your defense is an attack the attacker of calling me a "meanie" while claiming new when it is clearly not the case for reasons presented by multiple players. I have to go get ready for some stuff this evening but good luck with that.

In your defense your post below with the analysis does seem well thought out and I wish I had more time to compare this with my notes to see what does and doesn't align with what I have.

So if you are new and this is just really weird play, kudos for that well thought out bit. But again I should reiterate we should not say what we are going toward or not going toward. You are going to have a line blank in that sheet.

[Vine]

But again I should reiterate we should not say what we are going toward or not going toward. You are going to have a line blank in that sheet.

I don't care if you created this game, or have a teal name. I'm going to make sure all nice buildings belong to town.

*serious*

[Vine]

I will ensure that my tentacles, oops... I mean vines, are all over IPs and Wonders.

*drools*

I just love Monopoly. Scums can stick to constructing Buildings.

[Tapatalk]

Role

Construction for




N1
N2
N3


Chief






Speaker





Marshall





Sheriff





Investigator





Coroner





Cultural





Doctor





Secret Service





Lookout





Detective





Crafter





Filibuster





Jailor





Nuclear





Peaceful






I would really love anyone who is sweet enough fill in the blanks.

*twinkle*
The problem with assigning a wonder to a role is we don't know which roles are even in the game. It is possible there are 0 doctors, though likely.

Furthermore, you need to consider the short term. Power roles are better off building happiness structures to use their abilities as many times as possible before they die.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Instagram]

Will everyone actually do this; is the problem.

In all honesty I probably would not myself.

Yes they would, this strategy provides Peaceseeker PRS with a significant ROI, by day 3 they are still able to complete any wonder they may have desired. They also have 2 increased production for the rest of the game. It provides Peacefuls like me their investment is returned by day 4. They also have 2 increased production for the rest of the game. For those interested in game theory this is a strictly dominant strategy for Peacefuls, meaning regardless of what the warmongers does this strategy will be best for us.

Side-note:
@2048 I do not consider you to be Warmonger for your opinion, I simply believe you lacked important information in reaching the optimal conclusion.

[Fruit Ninja]

Yo yo yo I'm back, gonna re-read through day chat and posts my thoughts in a bit.

[Quizup]

You didn't answer why Warmonger lol.

If there's an absolute guarantee that WIFOM isn't involved, how is lying not scummy? That's intentional skewing of the day chat, which in a game when the majority is uninformed, the information we get needs to be factual or we get mislead. It's like we'd be doing the DD's job if we lie completely about this kind of stuff. I see why lying about roles may be needed, like a Peaceful claiming TPR to attract scum or a TPR claiming Peaceful to avoid attention, but you say lying in general, which also includes lying about night feedback, ect. Unless telling the truth completely screws you over, then yeah I think the lynch all liars thing is a relatively good principle to follow.
I may not be up to date on the rules. Don't tell anyone.
Tl:dr - Lies should evaluated like all things, on a case by case basis. In this case, it makes Vine town.

Cut the Rope: It's a poor enough imitation that I doubt it's meant to be one.

[Instagram]

The Peacefuls need to stop claiming. Thanks.

Hey Fruit Ninja, I exist and I'm voting for you. Tell me why my vote should be else where.

Instagram is town.
Instagram: How about you explain your reasons and we can get into mine.

You aren't actually voting Fruit Ninja, please look into vote tags. Thanks!

P.S. My reasons for voting Fruit Ninja are intentionally hidden, this early in the game I believe it would be more harmful than good. I do however expect others to consider my FOS and read Fruit Ninja in order to develop their own opinions.

[Fruit Ninja]

Vine seems to be desiring order, more than anything else.

This makes me believe that she is either
1. The Doomsday Killer, and is attempting to single out targets in the most orderly way possible
2. Chief/Speaker/Marshall/Citizen, and is being an idiot.
3. Warmonger, and is attempting to single out targets so the rest of them can prioritize who to kill/target

Ordered in likely hood, from my believe.

[Fruit Ninja]

Because Vine is a potential threat to our day chat anyways I believe we should lynch her.

[Snapchat]

Hey everyone I am here. Was having some computer troubles. Gonna read through 3 pages of posts

[Fall Down]

@Quizup Fair enough, but I fail to see what exactly about this particular gambit/lie makes her town particularly.

@Fruit Ninja I've got a few problems with your FOS.
1) How does order point to Doomsday? I think it's a good idea to try and come up with the most logical buildings, and while I think Vine is going at it a little wrong by trying to say each role should build X building, I think she's fine trying to come up with the general concept.
2) You do realize there's a hefty price to pay for MLing, right? I find it kind of hard you can be that certain on someone to lynch with absolutely no night evidence when the price of failing is an extra life lost in addition to the ML in the first place.
3) If you want her lynched, then why didn't you vote her?

[Fall Down]

Never mind about point three, I saw you voted her. But the other two still stand as points.

[Fruit Ninja]

The Doomsday is specially designed for destroying order. Simply destroy key targets and the town will panic.

What is MLing?

[Fall Down]

ML = Mislynching.

And when you say key targets, what do you mean by that? I'm guessing key people? I don't see how buildings affect what the Doomsday targets.

[Snapchat]

First, I think Vine is town based on her posts. They seem to be forced to act suspicious. By that I mean I think the way she is playing is intentional.

Second, I think priority lynch has to go to doomsday. He is essentially a godfather neutral because he is immune to night detections and he has to bonus of getting more kills if we mislynch a citizen and if we kill all the mafia too fast. I'm not saying that we should not lynch mafia if we find them, but we need to be actively looking for him because he could hurt us a lot more than mafia could.

[Fruit Ninja]

Those that build certain Wonders, are more powerful than others. It benifits the Doomsday Killer to kill that person.

@Snapchat, great minds think alike.

However we also have to keep in mind that the Warmongers have the potential for FIVE different night actions each night. Including night kill.

Killing off at least two mafia and the doomsday killer should be our priority.

[Fruit Ninja]

4pics1word how bout posting plzz.

[Fall Down]

I agree that Doomsday has priority over mafia, but there honestly isn't much we can say to that right now. I mean Doomsday is freaking immune to pretty much everything at night so there isn't really a way to actively find him unless we deprive him of happiness somehow to make him seeable. And chances are we aren't gonna find two scum in one day, but yeah Doomsday takes priority if we do.

Fruit Ninja, you never responded to any of my questions.

[4pics1word]

4pics1word how bout posting plzz.

How about go fuck yourself.

I was about to because the day has evolved (and I have finally caught up after having a nap halfway through reading and dinner and bleh) and I want to offer my opinion.

Regarding Vine: My opinion is neutral about her. She is obviously trying to irritate people and seem.. "mysterious" is the best word I can think of right now. The easiest way to deal with this is just to take the content of her posts for what it is at this point, but it's unnecessary to get yourself worked up about Vine.

I won't talk about the special mechanics in this game because I am not really in-depth with all of it, but I like the progress of the people who did concern themselves with it.

Not going to talk about my opinions of certain other people as of now. Wouldn't wanna paint a target on my back, ya know.

[Fruit Ninja]

I believe I did.



@Quizup Fair enough, but I fail to see what exactly about this particular gambit/lie makes her town particularly.

@Fruit Ninja I've got a few problems with your FOS.
1) How does order point to Doomsday? I think it's a good idea to try and come up with the most logical buildings, and while I think Vine is going at it a little wrong by trying to say each role should build X building, I think she's fine trying to come up with the general concept.
Claiming where production goes and roles will give warmongers and Doomsday killer more information, that isn't a good thing.
2) You do realize there's a hefty price to pay for MLing, right? I find it kind of hard you can be that certain on someone to lynch with absolutely no night evidence when the price of failing is an extra life lost in addition to the ML in the first place.
I do realize the price for MLing, that's why I'm not voting someone like Quizup
3) If you want her lynched, then why didn't you vote her?

[Fruit Ninja]

In my opinion we should give out what we built should be given AFTER the fact.

[Fruit Ninja]

If we reveal what we built at all.

[Fruit Ninja]

Will the whole town be notified if a World Wonder is built?

[Tapatalk]

Will the whole town be notified if a World Wonder is built?
yes

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Tapatalk]

In my opinion we should give out what we built should be given AFTER the fact.
Care to rephrase that? I'm tripping balls and I'm having trouble parsing that.

Sent from my Walrus-Bear using Tapatalk

[2048]

In my opinion we should give out what we built should be given AFTER the fact.

So.....you are giving this out than counter acting it..?

Plus revealing what you've been building can also determine what role you are.... So you wish to threaten the safety of TPR.

[Instagram]

I'm back and I finally have to review the train on Vine, I have to admit the case is quite intriguing, I have however concluded that vine is legitimately a peaceful just like me.

@Vine, You seem like quite an intelligent fellow, stick with me this should be a quick victory indeed.

[Quizup]

You aren't actually voting Fruit Ninja, please look into vote tags. Thanks!

P.S. My reasons for voting Fruit Ninja are intentionally hidden, this early in the game I believe it would be more harmful than good. I do however expect others to consider my FOS and read Fruit Ninja in order to develop their own opinions.
Huh. Thanks.
Fruit Ninja

4pic1word is probably town.

[Snapchat]

@Snapchat, great minds think alike.


That feels like a faint attempt at buddying with me.

[2048]

That feels like a faint attempt at buddying with me.

Yup, I've gotten that twice myself now...

[Fall Down]

ML = Mislynching.

And when you say key targets, what do you mean by that? I'm guessing key people? I don't see how buildings affect what the Doomsday targets.Still missed these questions Fruit Ninja. And you answered the first one, not the second one.

As for you saying the whole mass claim thing is bad, I gotta agree, but like I said earlier I'm getting that massive WIFOM idea from them. I think they are trying to intentionally on purpose come off as scum, which makes me think of what South Korea did in the last FM. Last FM I thought she was freaking scummy so as a mafian I didn't think killing her was a wise decision. Town obviously had better targets, and she didn't really make herself extremely scummy either so that led to her keeping herself alive. I think you're not really thinking of that ideal to it.

Tl;dr: Explained how I think it's wifom, and you're missing that.

I don't think you really understand though. An extra kill can be devastating. We have 19, right? That plus the mafia kill, we're already down to 16 right after N1. Keep the MLs going, and that brings us to 13, 10, 7... you get the point. By day 5 already is town completely and utterly crippled. That being said, we have to be careful with the lynches and only truly make a lynch if there's enough evidence against them. I don't think some WIFOM trick is enough evidence to call her sucmmy, let alone lynch her.

[Angry Birds]

First, hello to all.
Second, I would like to agree with Cut the Rope's points regarding assumption of roles (Though not taking any out considmoration). We'll have more to go on after Night 1. Also i second your opposition to the waving of certain parts of the body on this forum.

[2048]

Good night

[2048]

Oh my bad. Thought the day was going to end tonight.

[Kik]

Still missed these questions Fruit Ninja. And you answered the first one, not the second one.

As for you saying the whole mass claim thing is bad, I gotta agree, but like I said earlier I'm getting that massive WIFOM idea from them. I think they are trying to intentionally on purpose come off as scum, which makes me think of what South Korea did in the last FM. Last FM I thought she was freaking scummy so as a mafian I didn't think killing her was a wise decision. Town obviously had better targets, and she didn't really make herself extremely scummy either so that led to her keeping herself alive. I think you're not really thinking of that ideal to it.

Tl;dr: Explained how I think it's wifom, and you're missing that.

I don't think you really understand though. An extra kill can be devastating. We have 19, right? That plus the mafia kill, we're already down to 16 right after N1. Keep the MLs going, and that brings us to 13, 10, 7... you get the point. By day 5 already is town completely and utterly crippled. That being said, we have to be careful with the lynches and only truly make a lynch if there's enough evidence against them. I don't think some WIFOM trick is enough evidence to call her sucmmy, let alone lynch her.

Two things. One, South Korea was not purposefully acting scummy. In fact, I knew he was town the whole time and didn't really understand why everyone was always on his dick. But either way, that is not really relevant to this game. So let's talk about this game.

Things that happened:
Vine posted a stupid plan
People discussed plan, said it was stupid
Some stupids agreed with it
You disagree with it, but still defend him.

Seems like an attempt to defend your mafia pal without buddying him too hard. So you say you disagree, but then try to convince us that he's an important town trying to WIFOM. The fact is that if you were really town and you really believed this to be true, you would not have pointed it out, because doing so defeats the point of it and exposes him as important town.

Just to be sure, though: Do the mafia currently know the identities and/or roles of their fellow mafia members?

[Kik]

Two things. One,

And two: your math is off. We have 20 players, not 19. And that's total players. It's not that we have 20 town. We have 20 people total including town AND scum.

[Temple Run]

Vine seems to be desiring order, more than anything else.

This makes me believe that she is either
1. The Doomsday Killer, and is attempting to single out targets in the most orderly way possible
2. Chief/Speaker/Marshall/Citizen, and is being an idiot.
3. Warmonger, and is attempting to single out targets so the rest of them can prioritize who to kill/target

Ordered in likely hood, from my believe.
why are you excluding him from being other neutrals?

[Temple Run]

Still missed these questions Fruit Ninja. And you answered the first one, not the second one.

As for you saying the whole mass claim thing is bad, I gotta agree, but like I said earlier I'm getting that massive WIFOM idea from them. I think they are trying to intentionally on purpose come off as scum, which makes me think of what South Korea did in the last FM. Last FM I thought she was freaking scummy so as a mafian I didn't think killing her was a wise decision. Town obviously had better targets, and she didn't really make herself extremely scummy either so that led to her keeping herself alive. I think you're not really thinking of that ideal to it.

Tl;dr: Explained how I think it's wifom, and you're missing that.

I don't think you really understand though. An extra kill can be devastating. We have 19, right? That plus the mafia kill, we're already down to 16 right after N1. Keep the MLs going, and that brings us to 13, 10, 7... you get the point. By day 5 already is town completely and utterly crippled. That being said, we have to be careful with the lynches and only truly make a lynch if there's enough evidence against them. I don't think some WIFOM trick is enough evidence to call her sucmmy, let alone lynch her.
don't know what you mean, if "we"=town then we have 14. saying that 'we have 19' seems to tell that you are looking from the SK's point of vie

[King Terenas Menethil]

Two things. One, South Korea was not purposefully acting scummy. In fact, I knew he was town the whole time and didn't really understand why everyone was always on his dick. But either way, that is not really relevant to this game. So let's talk about this game.

Things that happened:
Vine posted a stupid plan
People discussed plan, said it was stupid
Some stupids agreed with it
You disagree with it, but still defend him.

Seems like an attempt to defend your mafia pal without buddying him too hard. So you say you disagree, but then try to convince us that he's an important town trying to WIFOM. The fact is that if you were really town and you really believed this to be true, you would not have pointed it out, because doing so defeats the point of it and exposes him as important town.

Just to be sure, though: Do the mafia currently know the identities and/or roles of their fellow mafia members?

Yes.

[Fall Down]

I remembered Vine said something out of 19 for her initial results, I was going off of that. I know I should of checked, but I was lazy as I have an iPad which is hard af to navigate. The point still stands though regarding 20, 17, 14, 11, 8.

@Kik Wrong. I didn't think it'd be smart to hide such a thought due to the reason that I think mafia's not stupid, and they'd most likely figure it out anyway. You have to play assuming scum's as smart as possible, as I've learned from chess. And the reason I did it is to first and foremost express my thoughts and hear what's said in reply. As a side bonus, it creates a layer of WIFOM within the mafia/Doomsday kill tonight. Sure he could be a TPR trying to wifom, but he could be a Cit wifoming a TPR wifoming. And so the list goes on. I don't think it's stupid of me to state my reasons for believing things, what else do you want me to say? "I'm not so sure about him being scum..." "Why?" "I just am not,"? That's retarded.

[Kik]

Yes.

ermagerd, you're alive. host(s) pls. http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27718-M-FM-Civilization?p=449323#post449323

[Kik]

I remembered Vine said something out of 19 for her initial results, I was going off of that. I know I should of checked, but I was lazy as I have an iPad which is hard af to navigate. The point still stands though regarding 20, 17, 14, 11, 8.

@Kik Wrong. I didn't think it'd be smart to hide such a thought due to the reason that I think mafia's not stupid, and they'd most likely figure it out anyway. You have to play assuming scum's as smart as possible, as I've learned from chess. And the reason I did it is to first and foremost express my thoughts and hear what's said in reply. As a side bonus, it creates a layer of WIFOM within the mafia/Doomsday kill tonight. Sure he could be a TPR trying to wifom, but he could be a Cit wifoming a TPR wifoming. And so the list goes on. I don't think it's stupid of me to state my reasons for believing things, what else do you want me to say? "I'm not so sure about him being scum..." "Why?" "I just am not,"? That's retarded.

I didn't ask for your reasoning. I was pointing out your scumminess/buddying to others for future reference so that if Vine flips scum, you will be next in line for investigating/sheriffing/lynching/one-shot-shooting/etc.

[Fall Down]

I didn't ask for your reasoning. I was pointing out your scumminess/buddying to others for future reference so that if Vine flips scum, you will be next in line for investigating/sheriffing/lynching/one-shot-shooting/etc.And by explaining I'm saying why it isn't scummy. Also I wouldn't consider this buddying, I see buddying as what Fruit Ninja's doing. "Great minds think alike" and statements like that that don't have logic behind them.

[King Terenas Menethil]

Fell asleep reading. Guess I was more tired than I thought. Have to go soon, but here's some stuff before I go. Some questions for the hosts:

Can production be spent on multiple buildings in one night?
If so, can production be spent on buildings that require buildings you don't have? (ex. could I put 4 into the forge and 2 in the factory for 2 nights, resulting in a finished forge with 4 already invested in the factory.)
Are top contributors always revealed? Or is it only for the Extraterrestrial Colonization peacekeeper and World Congress?

Yes.
No. You need the building to be completed already.
Top contributors for IP are revealed except if it's a nontown in ETC

[Quizup]

Can we lynch Fruit Ninja now?

[Kik]

Yes.
No. You need the building to be completed already.
Top contributors for IP are revealed except if it's a nontown in ETC

What happens if 2+ players contribute equally to an IP?

[Kik]

What happens if 2+ players contribute equally to an IP?

*and their contributions are higher than everyone elses's. (ie. two+ people tie for top contributor)

[Instagram]

Can we lynch Fruit Ninja now?

Okay so I realize you are new, but chill out, if we are right the other peaceseekers will come to conclusion on their own, trying to shove it down their throats will only cause resentment and ruin the game.

[Quizup]

I have a distinctly "shove it down their throats" playstyle.

You still haven't explain your reasons for voting for Fruit Ninja. How do you expect other people to come around to it without understanding why?

[2048]

What happens if 2+ players contribute equally to an IP?

RANDOMLY 1 of the 2 will be chosen as the top contributor...was answered in the setup thread

[King Terenas Menethil]

*and their contributions are higher than everyone elses's. (ie. two+ people tie for top contributor)

Random selection between the top contributors for the bonus.

[Quizup]

QuizUp
Instagram
2048
Cut The Rope
Vine
SnapChat
Fall Down
4pics1word
Bloons TD
Kik
Clash of Clans
Flappy Bird
iFunny
Angry Birds
Candy Crush Saga
Temple Run
Words with Friends
Tapatalk
Piano Tiles
Fruit Ninja

The order of every category except the yellow one matters. I'm relatively certain of everyone 4pics1word and above. If you have any questions about a specific read, just ask.

[Quizup]

Oh, six scum and nine non-town reads. I like the odds of hitting scum in those.

[Instagram]

I have a distinctly "shove it down their throats" playstyle.

You still haven't explain your reasons for voting for Fruit Ninja. How do you expect other people to come around to it without understanding why?

It's quite simple really, I realize that everyone here is intelligent, and I trust that they will come to the right conclusion, regardless of what that may be. Although I am quite confident in my assessment, I do not profess to be infallible, if they do not back my assessment could it not as easily be because I am wrong?

[Quizup]

But even intelligent people miss things. If you're worried about the validity of your assessment, why not promote a debate on your points? That way you stand a chance of convincing people and, if you are wrong, you can understand why.

[Instagram]

It's too early to start pointing out details, before the behavior is fully established it can more easily be altered. No, it is much more effective to wait until the full trend has emerged to make such accusations valid or not.

[2048]

QuizUp
Instagram
2048
Cut The Rope
Vine
SnapChat
Fall Down
4pics1word
Bloons TD
Kik
Clash of Clans
Flappy Bird
iFunny
Angry Birds
Candy Crush Saga
Temple Run
Words with Friends
Tapatalk
Piano Tiles
Fruit Ninja

The order of every category except the yellow one matters. I'm relatively certain of everyone 4pics1word and above. If you have any questions about a specific read, just ask.

Wish tapatalk would parse color

[Quizup]

QuizUp

Instagram
2048
Cut The Rope
Vine

SnapChat
Fall Down
4pics1word

Bloons TD
Kik
Clash of Clans

Flappy Bird
iFunny
Angry Birds
Candy Crush Saga
Temple Run
Words with Friends
Tapatalk
Piano Tiles

Fruit Ninja

It goes dark blue, blue, dark green, light green, yellow, red. Better?

[Vine]

Things that happened:
Vine posted a stupid plan
People discussed plan, said it was stupid
Some stupids agreed with it
You disagree with it, but still defend him.


My plan is clever!

*sulks*

[Fruit Ninja]

Hello again, I'm sitting at safeway right now so I can still participate in the game.

If It seems like I'm lurking its because I can't fuckin get too internet, I want to make that very clear.

I'm gonna read through chat now

[Fruit Ninja]

why are you excluding him from being other neutrals?

Because I feel like she is not a researcher.

[Fruit Ninja]

So.....you are giving this out than counter acting it..?

Plus revealing what you've been building can also determine what role you are.... So you wish to threaten the safety of TPR.

I'm saying we should not reveal what we are GOING to put our production into, I'm saying that if we reveal what we built we should do it after we build the thing.

[Fruit Ninja]

K bye.

[Quizup]

Hello again, I'm sitting at safeway right now so I can still participate in the game.

If It seems like I'm lurking its because I can't fuckin get too internet, I want to make that very clear.

I'm gonna read through chat now
The scumminess is strong with this one.

No one accused you of lurking. You made up that issue.

[Clash of Clans]

Wow... I'm pretty sure your questions indicate three things
1) That Vine is definitely faking being a newbie. You know the meaning of copying meta by asking what meta and the other items follow that.
2) That for some unknown reason Vine is only being defensive about my vote. For some reason Clash of Clans vote didn't cause Vine to be defensive.
{I am not including Fruit Ninja because there have been no posts by Vine since that timeframe}
3) That my reasoning is clear and you're digging for more information as to why. I would have expected at least a denial or you're nuts here from an experienced player or a what the hell is meta and copying it from a true newbie.

These reactions (along with the reactions of players following) cause me to believe a few things as a result:
1) At worst, Clash of Clans and yourself could be aligned Warmongers. At the least, there is some reason that you aren't defensive of their lynch vote and are of mine that really should be prodded more.
2) Quizup is buddying Vine although I don't know why. Either Quizup is from this other forum and believes Vine to be someone they aren't which would explain the weirdest about saying post 85 cinches their towniness. Post 85 IMO is a very good scum argument because Vine is picking and choosing which posts to respond to.

Furthermore in Fall Down's post that Quizup says excludes a the possibility of a Warmonger, mentions a specific possibility for a "Mafian" which I'm assuming is a warmonger. This seems very wrong to me.

3) Fall Down either knows something about the gender of Vine or picked up on the meta argument I made and believes Vine is me or is having a belief that Vine is female. I'm the only player who has openly said I'm female. TapATalk talked about waving his dick around so that presumably makes him male. Other than that I'm using gender neutral until each person says their respective gender.

Because of this I'm thinking that Vine/Clash/Quizup need some examination this evening to see what the hell is going on between these three. I like Fall Down as town because of how they are poking other players and how their responses have been written so far. But the gender mentioning to me is important.

And Vine please, start playing the game without the use of this gambit. At worst, you're copying mine from Dark Lord Potter and it's really, really annoying when it is copied like this. I still lend credence to this, because of a lack of a denial. At best, this is just some random weird gambit you came up with either on your own or with scum buddies. Based on this and the other posts that followed I am leaving my vote where it is. If you are town please give us an explanation so this can sort itself out.

To all, again we are NOT attempting to get everyone to announce what role they are or what production they are working on. It's way too early for that sort of claim. After the prior discussions in the thread, it should hopefully be painfully clear as to why.

And for those of you who haven't posted anything of substance please come on and start discussions. I really hate lurkers. Only 14/20 players have posted so far and not all of those have been substance worthy and are just hi and are not responding afterwards. I have to be out this evening with friends and would really like to have everyone posting in the thread before that point.

@Kik,
I don't think the hosts have responded to the questions posed yet. And yes, as I've stated numerous times, it's my opinion a mass claim of any sort (production or role) is not in the best interests of town and therefore I won't be participating in them.

You really shouldn't be citing things like specific Forum names.

Why don't you look at my posts and your opinion on the plan to coordinate some efforts towards International Projects, rather than just throwing scumreads around because someone didn't respond to me? You should realize someone acting like an idiot is going to ignore votes because they aren't piling up. 3 votes this late into D1 means nothing and I would expect you to recognize that, considering how thorough your post was.

Thoughts on if al Peacefuls should build the Extra Terrestrial Civilization?


Yes they would, this strategy provides Peaceseeker PRS with a significant ROI, by day 3 they are still able to complete any wonder they may have desired. They also have 2 increased production for the rest of the game. It provides Peacefuls like me their investment is returned by day 4. They also have 2 increased production for the rest of the game. For those interested in game theory this is a strictly dominant strategy for Peacefuls, meaning regardless of what the warmongers does this strategy will be best for us.

Side-note:
@2048 I do not consider you to be Warmonger for your opinion, I simply believe you lacked important information in reaching the optimal conclusion.

This. People need to realive this is the best way to start off the game for town.


Because Vine is a potential threat to our day chat anyways I believe we should lynch her.

I do not like this post.

Fruit Ninja (2 [L-9]):
Instagram, Quizup

2 of my strong townreads on one person? Oh boy oh boy

Fruit Ninja

Seriously though, people need to be using their votes. So what if it's D1, place it on your damn FOS.

[Clash of Clans]

The scumminess is strong with this one.

No one accused you of lurking. You made up that issue.

This, considering it's D1 with ~200 posts. At least on this Forum, it's hard to be seen as lurking this early. The self-awareness is strong indeed

[Vine]

We should, like... start with building this tonight.


World Congress -- 60 Production
Welcome a new age of international diplomacy! When the World Congress is built, everyone who contributed at least 4 Production will gain 2 Happiness. Top contributor will gain an extra vote.

Day revealing roles (Chief, Speaker, Marshall) should contribute 6 (max) production to try for the extra vote bonus.
Peaceseekers and Peacefuls should contribute 4 production to get +2 happiness.

For +2 happiness, World Congress is cheaper and faster than Residential Area (4 production versus 8 production; completion in 1 day versus 2 days)

Most Warmongers and Doomsday Killer will be forced to contribute 4 production to get +2 bonus too.
Only Warmonger (role) and Disguiser might not contribute any production.

[Vine]

Mmm...

ET->WC
+1 happiness, night 1, action + ET
0 happiness, night 2, action + WC
+1 happiness, night 3

WC->ET
+1 happiness, night 1, action + WC
+2 happiness, night 2, action + ET
+1 happiness, night 3

I think, like... ET is still preferable.

*blushes*

[Quizup]

What are you reads Clash? Why?

[Clash of Clans]

Idk. I've been keeping up with the thread via phone all day and I feel too lazy to reread. Also, D1 is incredibly unproductive here

[Quizup]

You claimed to have town reads on me and Instagram. Why is that?

Why are you voting for Fruit Ninja?

[Vine]

If we, like... start with ET:


Extraterrestrial Colonization -- 60 Production
Using salvaged Antebellum technology, scientists can continue to work on colonizing the Moon. When Extraterrestrial Colonization is successfully accomplished, everyone who contributed at least 4 Production will gain +2 Production per night. If Peaceseeker, Top contributor will be confirmed as Peaceseeker. Otherwise, nothing will happen. Top contributor will not be revealed in that case.

Lesser Peaceseekers (Coroner, Cultural) should contribute 6 (max) production to try for the day reveal.
No reason for Investigative and Protective Peaceseekers to aim for day reveal.
Other Peaceseekers and Peacefuls should contribute 4 production to get +2 production.
Warmongers and Doomsday Killer will be forced to contribute 4 production to get +2 bonus too.

*dizzy*

[Quizup]

Vine do something non-mechanicy so I can feel better about my town read of you.

[Vine]

Vine do something non-mechanicy so I can feel better about my town read of you.

Please wait until, like... day 2.

*insists*

[Quizup]

:/

Make it worth the wait.

[Fruit Ninja]

Vine you are aware that it doesn't reveal the role of the peacekeeper, it just reveals if they are a peacekeeper. A role that can defend itself should try for reveal, such as cultural.

Or at least hope that there is a jailor or protection role.

[Fruit Ninja]

Any non-confirmable role should try for top contributer

[Vine]

Role

Construction for



N1
N2


Chief

4ET, 2WC
~8WC



Speaker
4ET, 2WC
~8WC



Marshall
4ET, 2WC
~8WC


Sheriff
4ET, 2 RA
~4WC


Investigator
4ET, 2 RA
~4WC


Coroner
6ET

~4WC


Cultural
6ET
~4WC


Doctor
4ET, 2 RA
~4WC


Secret Service
4ET, 2 RA
~4WC


Lookout
4ET, 2 RA
~4WC


Detective
4ET, 2 RA
~4WC


Crafter
4ET, 2 ?
~4WC


Filibuster
4ET, 2 RA
~4WC


Jailor
4ET, 2 ?
~4WC


Nuclear
4ET, 2 ?
~4WC


Peaceful
4ET, 2 ?
~4WC



WC: World Congress
ET: Extra Terrestial
RA: Residential Area

*sweats*

[Vine]

Any non-confirmable role should try for top contributer

*gasps*

And, like... die to Warmonger? Only Lesser Peacekeepers should try for it, I insist.


Warmonger
At night, if you perform the factional night kill, you may use a charge to ensure that your selected target dies. If you use this ability, you will not lose or gain any happiness tonight. Furthermore, you are immune to Filibusters, Secret Service, Veterans, Witches, and pierce Doctors, jails, and vests ONLY when you activate your ability. Does not work on the Doomsday Killer. 1 usage.

[Quizup]

Vine you are aware that it doesn't reveal the role of the peacekeeper, it just reveals if they are a peacekeeper. A role that can defend itself should try for reveal, such as cultural.

Or at least hope that there is a jailor or protection role.
Hey Fruit, acknowledge my existence.

[Fruit Ninja]

Warmonger has a low chance of appearing does it not?

@Quizup hi

[Quizup]

Thank you. Now convince me you aren't scum, because you have 1.Third party hunting, 2.Self-awareness and 3.Obv!townie doubting for mechanical reasons working against you.

[Fruit Ninja]

I'm not scum, I promise.

I'm assuming that third party hunting means hunting for the doomsday killer, I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.

As for the self awareness thing I am merely notifying the town why I may not be there.

Also for the last one I barely understood what you you said sooooo....

[Quizup]

Yeah, that's not convincing. I'm going to take a couple minutes to write out the fullcase, alright?

[Fruit Ninja]

Aight then, hurry cause I have limited time.

[Quizup]

In the meantime, you could give some reads.

[Fruit Ninja]

Dem guests watching tho. I know that you guys are players I did that before. Now reveal yourself.

[Fruit Ninja]

K so I get town read from you and 2048. Kinda scum read from Vine. I will do more when I have access to a computer cAuse I hate making read lists with this damn kindle.

[Clash of Clans]

You claimed to have town reads on me and Instagram. Why is that?

Why are you voting for Fruit Ninja?

I remember you saying "X is town Y is town," without reasoning which I didn't really like as it's a weak way to buddy. However, coming back I saw you made a colored read wall. This flipped the "X Y" thing to a towntell for me, because it at least seems you were actively making true reads.

Something Fruit Ninja said earlier in the day while I was on my phone pinged me

[Fruit Ninja]

What did I say?

[Clash of Clans]

I could care less who we vote atm, because nothing is truely known about who is who.

Vine
Sheep vote cause Vine is acting dumb.

Found it, I think it was pointed out multiple times already though.

First line implies a lack of care in power of vote/lynches, yet second is a vote, and third is that narrow balance between no justification and explained reasoning that typically pings me as lack of care/fake reasoning

[Clash of Clans]

Didn't know you could surf the web on a Kindle.

Why are you invisible Fruit Ninja?

[2048]

There tends to be a bias of those mainly looking for neutrals as being Mafia or general scum.

That's one of the reasons why Fruitty is being listed as scum.

[Instagram]

Oh god. Quizup is about to make a horrible mistake.

[2048]

Didn't know you could surf the web on a Kindle.

Why are you invisible Fruit Ninja?

Btw I'm invisible as well

[2048]

Invisibility tends to be a smart move for anyone playing a FM so that if you view the thread and decide not to post, it doesn't look bad for you as well.

[Instagram]

I'm invisible too, does that make me any less peaceful?

[Quizup]

Oh god. Quizup is about to make a horrible mistake.
Explain.

[Instagram]

@Quizup Maybe I'm crazy sworn you said you were going to write up a comprehensive read on Fruit Ninja, that is a terrible mistake.

[Quizup]

Why?

[Fruit Ninja]

Meh what can I say? I was tired and didn't care what happened.

@clash of clans yeah it's called silk.

[Quizup]

Sorry Instagram. I'm confident enough in my reads to push this forward and I expect the waves will make for some interesting things to analyze.

[Quizup]

Let's see.

Okay, for a plan I believe we should set prioritys on who to eliminate first.

1. Doomsday Killer
2. Killing Warmongers
3. Supportive/Manipulative Warmongers
4. Investigative Warmongers
5. Researcher

We should try and eliminate the Doomsday Killer as soon as possible, because if we kill the Warmongers first then the Doomsday Killer gets an extra kill.
Third party hunting is nice for scum because its something they don't have to fake and it's actually in their best interests to have the town kill third parties for them.


I don't have any throughts about anything else right now, so I'm just going to hang back 'cause my internet will prob go out soon.
Self-aware fluff and a excuse to lurk.


Before you modkill me keep in mind that I didn't actually edit the post, I just reviewed the post because you posted it.

Please don't kill me.
Excessive concern with staying alive. Hint: Town don't have to be alive to win. Scum find that much harder.


A few notes.

1. Soft claim for Peaceful
2. Something about this seriously disturbs me.
1.Explicitly talking about a peaceful claim that hasn't been confirmed is anti town.
2.Useless doubtcasting.


I could care less who we vote atm, because nothing is truely known about who is who.

Vine
Sheep vote cause Vine is acting dumb.
A vote with the implication that you are not responsible for your actions, which allows you to get out of any pressure after Vine flips town.


Yo yo yo I'm back, gonna re-read through day chat and posts my thoughts in a bit.
More self-awareness, as if you're going to get lynched for your schedule.


Vine seems to be desiring order, more than anything else.

This makes me believe that she is either
1. The Doomsday Killer, and is attempting to single out targets in the most orderly way possible
2. Chief/Speaker/Marshall/Citizen, and is being an idiot.
3. Warmonger, and is attempting to single out targets so the rest of them can prioritize who to kill/target

Ordered in likely hood, from my believe.
Oh look, more third party hunting.


Because Vine is a potential threat to our day chat anyways I believe we should lynch her.
"I'm not responsible for this flip, guiz! Vine's a good lynch even if she town (which my earlier analysis actually points to ...)."


Those that build certain Wonders, are more powerful than others. It benifits the Doomsday Killer to kill that person.

@Snapchat, great minds think alike.

However we also have to keep in mind that the Warmongers have the potential for FIVE different night actions each night. Including night kill.

Killing off at least two mafia and the doomsday killer should be our priority.
Useless speculation and buddying of Snapchat. (Snapchat gets town points for calling you on this.)

Then there's more setup speculation and a random call for activity from 4pics1word.


Hello again, I'm sitting at safeway right now so I can still participate in the game.

If It seems like I'm lurking its because I can't fuckin get too internet, I want to make that very clear.

I'm gonna read through chat now
More selfawareness.

Then there's the fact that you just seem to ignore every accusation and question you don't like. I'm ... not actually sure what to make of that.

[Instagram]

I thought I'd already explained it, but here goes again, a comprehensive read on him right now WILL NOT result in a lynch. If he is in fact Warmonger it can only benefit him. If he is a peaceseeker it will undermine your credibility again benefiting the Warmongers. Have patience and all will be revealed in time.

[Quizup]

K so I get town read from you and 2048. Kinda scum read from Vine. I will do more when I have access to a computer cAuse I hate making read lists with this damn kindle.
You should probably explain why.

[Instagram]

Oh god, I was too late.....

[Quizup]

...

You have some of the most bizarre evaluation I've ever encountered. How will it not get him lynched?

[Instagram]

This discussion is no longer relevant, as it can no longer serve a purpose the debate is over.

[Quizup]

I would like to continue the discussion because I don't understand how your evaluation can be so off.

[Fall Down]

I thought I'd already explained it, but here goes again, a comprehensive read on him right now WILL NOT result in a lynch. If he is in fact Warmonger it can only benefit him. If he is a peaceseeker it will undermine your credibility again benefiting the Warmongers. Have patience and all will be revealed in time.How? If pressure is put on scum that's bad for scum lol.

[Quizup]

I want every yellow read to ask a another yellow read a question.

[2048]

I want every yellow read to ask a another yellow read a question.

Lol, so are they just to be defined as colors now? Might as well just number us xD.

Sorry, got a kick out of this one. I assume you are trying to promote activity and get some information flowing with this technic?

[Kik]

I want every yellow read to ask a another yellow read a question.

What does that accomplish? Asking questions does not meaningfully contribute to the discussion. In fact, it does the opposite: It gives the appearance of contribution while actually providing none. In the best case, the question gets someone else to contribute to the discussion by answering it, but any idiot can just ask other people questions. I would also posit that simply instructing others to "ask more questions" falls into this category as well, perhaps even more so, since now you're not even generating the questions being asked.

[Kik]

I thought I'd already explained it, but here goes again, a comprehensive read on him right now WILL NOT result in a lynch. If he is in fact Warmonger it can only benefit him. If he is a peaceseeker it will undermine your credibility again benefiting the Warmongers. Have patience and all will be revealed in time.

...the fuck are you trying to say?

[Kik]

...the fuck are you trying to say?

translation for brits, in case any of them are in the game:
u wot m8