S-FM 348: Standoff - Page 5
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    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Spoiler : responses to all the post since I've had some nyquill :


    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    I'd say "I'll explain more later" but I really won't,

    I think those two posts from deathworlds aren't towny, but more specifically probably because I already find him near the bottom of my PoE.

    Those two specific posts are easy posts a wolf can use to get towncred (example A: this post of yours) and also feign usefulness in thread without giving reads or actually interacting in more meaningful ways.

    his post being excited about getting back is the towniest thing from his posting so far.
    okay yeah you know what, takes me a bit to get up and start actually reading the game, I don't do meta reads, so it takes me a while to build up enough evidence/gut for my reads.

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    I was rereading the setup and saw that hidden PR can be a citizen, which sucks because if we have 1 mafia pretending to be a PR, and we only have 2 town PR, then there is no counter claims.

    Since most PRs can be either alignments, it boil down to your basic scumhunting.

    Oh a person claim detective? A doc? Well he can be mafia detective or doc too! I strongly believe that a massclaim should be in order on Day 2 if no mafia died.
    Mass claim on d2 is probably the only way we win this game if we mislynch here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    First impressions

    Mizery
    ikarusdk
    Vittae

    Marshmallow Marshall
    Loldebite
    powerofdeath

    Deathworlds
    Varcron
    yo letsgo, the first readslist of the game, not exactly thrilled to be near the bottom of your list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    Vittae had a good opening that didn't involve a lot of mech discussion, something that is less likely for wolves to do in a semi-closed setup where talking about mech is 10% distraction, 20% fluff 15% wolves not wanting useful things to discuss, 50% helpful and 50% lame but 100% a possibility from both sides of the game
    I get why people hate on mech discussion, but that won't ever stop me from talking about it, also, I in general, agree with your position on Vittae here, strong opening, asking questions, generally pro-town.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    Ikarus in general is very pure and i wouldn't touch, especially one of his posts [insert post here] which was uberpure and towny of him.
    Ikarus is a town read for me as well, for much of the same reasons, none of that "haha im totally not nervous to play some mafia right now" vibes you get from newer scum.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    Don't have a read on MM so far but Vittae has him as a gth townread rn it seems based on entry so I'll go with it because I can have a hard time seeing people who meme on entry and whatnot as Woflier than i probably should most of the time.
    Ehhh memeing on entry isn't pro-town that's for sure, but personally, I wouldn't go so hard as to say it is damning either, closer to NAI than it is to a scum read imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    Based on their interactions the two wolves are likely not varcron/deathworlds and varcon's carelessness about how he is percieved in rambling about another game is slightly towny but not wanting to discuss it further if it's truly a good memory he wants to revisit makes it an option that he's trying to not get suspicion from being too far off topic
    I consider the whole thing as NAI, might be reading into it too much.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    I'm not going to go into deathworlds much because my main suspicions come from his lack of content so far beyond mech discussion, and trying to boost varcron as a PR by saying the "i know what you're doing right now" as if other people aren't and wouldn't notice the callback, implying he wanted to make a point in thread to reference in the future when people ask him why he's not a wolf. He was also in thread when Ikarus posted the townread on him and despite interacting with other posts he ignores that one.
    Hey now, there's a good shot that varcron is cit, or scum really.
    If you think about it, useless town pr claim is a good claim for all allignments.
    scum could be like: "oh hey, I'm a town power role! one of the few limited roles available, now a real town power will be forced to counterclaim in the event of mass claim and we can 1v1 in a one mislynched allowed setup, also, lookout/scout can suck it!"
    citizen could be like: "Oh hey, I'm a town power role! Night kill me instead of a real town power role.
    a powerful town power role could be like: "Hey, I'm a weak town power role, don't hit me scum!"
    a useless tpr could be like: "Hey, I'm a useless tpr! (I am making this claim for WIFOM reasons )


    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    Power is solidly null with no content leaning wolfy from post in thread being disengaged and really only interacting with deathworlds about how long their break was which could imply more likely not w with death but easily fakeable and easy to turn my read around here if i feel the need.
    I too am hoping for more content from pod.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post

    Great time to note that lynching is NOT mandatory, I assume this is achieved by voting "skip" ?
    yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    Which brings me to my point : should we make citizens claim to clear out PoE ? I know, I know, it is lame and cringe...
    So, should we be doing it ?
    scum makes up 1/4th of the entire population, if we can increase odds of a random lynch hitting scum by a significant enough margin (right now it's 20%), then i'd say it would be worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    On another note, since you (Vittæ) and I seem to be the only ones online and active now that mizery's gone, feel free to engage me about whatever.

    To help jumpstart that, here's a rushed fresh out of bed readslist :

    cute people (T leaning)

    Ikarusdk (seems genuinely eager to engage in actual discussion to me or much better at pretending than I'd expect, and also cute posts)
    Varcron (Pretty good feeling about the interaction with deathworlds, above vittae for now because I know them a very tiny bit better)
    Vittae (Good feeling about the slot, I sense cute vibes. Yeah that might be irrational, sue me)

    boringly ordinary (odds are that idk how to read these but I'll pretend for now)

    PoD (Not much to think about but I get the tiniest of cute vibes and )
    deathworlds (I agree that the mech is NAI, and nothing felt especially good or especially bad)
    mizery (I don't believe in judging off openings anyway, reads list is nice but honestly I'm pretty sure she would've done as much as any alignment)

    uglies (S leaning)

    MM (I very much dislike their last post to date. Sorting roles in utility buckets alone is worth doing, had I done that in my first game ever I would've seen you were scum much faster
    loldebite, could you clarify what exactly you didn't like about MM's last post?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    Yes.

    Actually, do scum have a day chat too ? If they do the idea crumbles, probably.
    I assume scum would have to have at least one of theirs fakeclaim citizen, if they do play it accurately we don't gain much except an extra WIFOM layer as a freebie. Regardless, we might gain something and as such it's worth discussing.
    If you're afraid about town power roles getting outted & gutted, I wouldn't be. Citizens have the majority over scum, so we don't actually need any PR to win, provided we're good enough. That is assuming no extra NKP.
    This is poor logic, citizens outnumber scum in almost every game, that doesn't mean we should let our power roles die every single game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    Shit.

    Actually, we DO gain something out of it : it gives us better information about the kind of setup we're playing. Assuming EXACTLY 1 scum fakeclaims citizen (which is the optimal response IMO) :
    If town has 3 PR :
    - 4 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 25%
    - 4 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 25%
    If town has 2 PRs :
    - 3 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 33%
    - 5 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 20%

    Since even the informed majority does NOT know how many PRs there are, they can't adapt their response to unless they are the very last to claim. Which they might. Ugh.

    If town has 3 PR :
    - if BOTH scum fakeclaim citizens :
    - 3 PR claims, 0% scum
    - 5 citizen claims, 40% scum
    - if BOTH scum claim PR (this should NEVER happen as this gives town the most information):
    - 5 PR claims, 40% scum
    - 3 citizen claim, 0% scum

    If town has 2 PR :
    - if BOTH scum fakeclaim citizens (shouldn't happen either but less terrible that both claiming PR with 3 TPR) :
    - 2 PR claims, 0% scum
    - 6 citizen claims : 33%
    - if BOTH claim PR:
    - 4 PR claims, 50% scum
    - 4 citizen claims, 0% scum

    Which means that the expected results are :

    If town has 3 PR :
    EITHER
    - 4 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 25%
    - 4 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 25%
    OR
    - 3 PR claims, 0% scum
    - 5 citizen claims, 40% scum

    If town has 2 PRs :
    EITHER
    - 3 PR claims, 1 of which is scum : 33%
    - 5 citizen claims, 1 of which is scum : 20%
    OR
    - 4 PR claims, 50% scum
    - 4 citizen claims, 0% scum

    Well this is disapointing.
    it is quite disappointing indeed, an increase of 20% up to like 33% (if I understood correctly based off of scum not both claiming tpr) is not particularly significant, nor an increase of odds I would like to out all the mechanical leverage we hold at night.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    Ikarus is the most open and shut town in the game right now, clearly demonstrating a level of depth of thought way beyond what I would expect from a player who is playing his first wolf game. He doesn't act nervous / awkward, avoid solving or have difficulties pushing wolf reads - all extremely common tells in 1st time wolves - and in fact he acts very strongly to the contrary for all of those things. He just seems very genuine and excited to solve and I have no troubles calling him town.
    agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    MM and Miz I've talked about already and have shaky townreads on both. These are both players I want to discuss more later on once I have a better understanding of their meta but I'm happy with the posting from both right now.
    mm seems to be quite contentious for people, appearing at the bottom of some peoples scum lists so far, and in the town lean areas as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    PoD is just not posting game-related content rn. If you look at every post they make below:
    - Hello post
    - Asks definition of a term
    - Answers some questions from me that aren't directly game related, notably does not answer the game related question I ask. They self describe as an active player who prefers villager (but is better as mafia).
    - A few small talk / fluff posts
    - Setup spec
    - Leaves
    The only real game related thing they add is the suggestion of a D2 massclaim if no wolf is flipped and a reminder that PR claims can be wolves.
    This reads as a wolf trying to blend in and appear active without contributing, making a reasonable number of posts but not actually adding anything solving-related to that. They were one of the few players around when the game first started were dead and despite checking in a few times also did nothing to try to start conversation.
    Nothing that PoD has posted is bad but I'm leaning towards them being mafia on the basis that they seem to be trying to look active while avoiding any opportunity to solve given (even compared to the players who are focusing moreso on easy to fake mech posts, they're at least contributing something substantial from their perspective in a world where they're town even if the actual solving is lacking).

    Will type up other reads in detail later.
    You scum leaning pod right now makes me sad, mans just a bit rusty yeah? I'd hope he didn't roll scum because I'd like to play with him more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post

    As others have pointed out already, Death's ISO is also devoid of solving right now but some of Death's comments suggest they're very into mech and that this might be a NAI thing for them.

    Basically every mech thing Death has said has been correct so far and they corrected several other players who were making incorrect points (they responded to several posts I also responded to during my catchup with similar points to me). Not that I think this is AI, I just agree with what they're saying and could definitely believe based on what I've seen that they genuinely enjoy talking about mech as town.

    I also thought the post where they said they were enjoying themselves was pretty towny lol. Death just seemed really excited to talk about mech instead of peddling it to try to get into the game as a wolf.

    They're close to null for me rn, definitely a PoE slot but I want to see how they typically play before I come to a full conclusion. They have a couple of redeeming features and comparatively their contributions are much better than PoD's (despite the latter getting much less attention for lack of contribution) but as other people have said the focus solely on mech is wolfy in a vacuum.
    You have all these town brownie points for me, but put me in the null slot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    ---------------------

    Varcron's posting outside of the claim is also completely devoid of non-mech solving but I think the early claim in of itself is towny (even if I think it's unlikely that a villager has a truly useless role in this setup. I have thoughts on this but I don't want to dive into anything resembling public PR speculation so I'll keep those to myself. If varcron is genuinely a villager with a negative utility night action then they were smart in claiming immediately though).
    I think varcron's claim is smart regardless of alignment, and therefor is NAI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post

    ---------------------

    Looking at Deb now.

    Not a fan of their entrance and the whole "Hi I'm checking in but can't post right now" and "I'm mad at myself for missing SoD" comments (paraphrased) are >rand wolf (these are pretty common wolf tells, can expand on them if asked though).
    I think I understand what you're getting at right now, kinda lurky comments, being non-comitial in day chat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    I found it mildly villagery how they initiated solving and posting reads in the thread at a point where half of the game was (and still is) not posting any solving-related content although given that Deb seems like a competent player I'm not putting too much stock into this (the effort is appreciated if you're town though deb). However, I felt that their reads were pretty thin and when I asked for an expansion on some of them the responses I got didn't really demonstrate a depth of thought beyond the surface level and the PoD/MM reads in particular I find extremely iffy. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt since they themselves considered it to be a rushed reads list and I've also had some very janky reads on rushed reads lists of my own as town.
    Reminder, we are in the first 12ish hours of the game, some people need a bit of time to get the ball rolling, I in particular like to think I have a much stronger D2 than a D1.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    ---------------------

    Overall reads right now are looking like:

    ikarusdk

    Varcron

    Marshmallow Marshall*
    Mizery*

    Deathworlds (Null)

    Loldebite
    powerofdeath

    (* - Town but pending a higher effort meta analysis)
    Overall I like this list, I'm not so sure about putting pod in the very bottom and leaving me as a null at this stage of the game seems like a reasonable thing that you would do since you are not familiar with my d1 play.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Mmmm, the perfect springboard to jump into other subjects absolutely is RVS, though, and this kind of discussion normally kills RVS without replacing it with highly alignment-indicative events, which is bad.
    I really don't get the hype around RVS, is it meant to try and catch scum via vote count analysis? wouldn't that be better done when there are actual wagons being formed?


    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    And to answer your question, the answer is actually "yes, that might actually be better" lol. But that wasn't really my main point; my point was that your post looked a little performative. Making a big post to say "anti-town PRs shouldn't act if they're town" and "I think the setup has this composition" holds in like 3 sentences normally, and I believe you have tricked me as scum before by making walls because I generally like walls.
    Performative forsmorative, pro town behavior is pro town, and me tricking you into liking you as scum just because you happen to like walls is a skill issue, effort-posting is not alignment indicative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I agree, but was it towny? In fact, that's basically what I'm saying: it looks good, but does it actually do anything else?
    Regardless of alignment it is everyone's jobs to try to at least appear town, so they aren't being focused on being the days elimination, not alignment indicative.

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    Also is wolf supposed to be term for being Mafia? I assume from a different website meta where wolf is the scum
    yup, wolf = scum = mafia = bad guys

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    I do appreciate deathworlds putting in a lot of work in figuring out the setup.

    With that being said, theres a high chance he probably did it before the game started, before he even know his own role, so this have 0 say in his alignment.
    Actually I made it after the game started, which is a rarity for me but I originally had plans around SoD so I didn't have time to setup a big setup analysis wall like I tend to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I've only skimmed through the rest of what has been said, but first thing that catches my eye since I was talking about walls:



    This feels like the "right kind" of mechanical talk: it actually indicates what happens in a rationally conducted game (and tells us that claims should be delayed to avoid giving info to scum so that they can't adjust their fake claims). I am tempted to give Debbie a preliminary townread for this - it's not strong, but I see someone actively trying to figure out what should be done.
    @ikarusdk I am curious to see what you think about this vs Deathworlds' mechanical talk
    +1, I think objectively, debbie's mechanical talk is more pro-town than mine, solving the game =/= solving the setup.

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    I would say 90% of the players are null to me. I'm still trying to get my scumradar up and working again
    I will defend you on this point today, but no longer than that, hope to see some scum hunting from you soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post

    Oh and btw I just realized that I didn't really comply with your request, since I've posted no link to a game where I played scum, because there hasn't been any yet. Closest I ever got was some kind of neutral killer on crack but I died of crab overload.
    I'm still malding about the fact that my role-card that I created for that game didn't even get a chance to do anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    They haven't said that. Not here, at least.

    -vote Vittae
    Ehhhhhhhhh this seems like a stretch to me, especially considering what vittae pointed out just below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    (Apparently I have to post something and can't just quote the post so here is some text)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    This was a response to Deb saying PoD never claimed to be struggling with making reads ftr.

    I think it's pretty clear here that PoD isn't refusing to make reads and would post some more at my request if they could regardless of alignment.

    I think in hindsight that regardless of alignment it's easy to infer from PoD's posting that they're struggling to produce solving content (not wilfully avoiding it necessarily) again regardless of their alignment.

    Not sure why you think I'd lie about this anyway deb? It wouldn't be of any benefit to me to do so as a wolf.
    Vittae isn't the lynch today, saying that now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    Kinda rude for no one to read my posts, ngl
    make better content then

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    Mizery
    ikarusdk
    Vittae
    Marshmallow Marshall

    Deathworlds
    Varcron
    powerofdeath
    Loldebite


    -vote loldebite
    and with that we have another reads list and a vote for loldebite.


    With everything in mind here is everyone's reads list as I saw them.

    Mizery's:
    Mizery
    ikarusdk
    Vittae


    Marshmallow Marshall
    Loldebite
    powerofdeath


    Deathworlds
    Varcron


    loldebite's:

    Ikarusdk
    Varcron
    Vittae


    PoD
    deathworlds
    mizery


    MM

    Vittae's:
    ikarusdk

    Varcron

    Marshmallow Marshall*
    Mizery*

    Deathworlds (Null)

    Loldebite
    powerofdeath


    Mizery's 2nd list
    Mizery
    ikarusdk
    Vittae
    Marshmallow Marshall


    Deathworlds
    Varcron
    powerofdeath
    Loldebite



    Here's my list:
    Deathworlds
    Ikarusdk
    Vittae

    Varcron

    PowerofDeath
    MM


    Mizery
    Loldebite

    Breakdown:
    Deathworlds: I am town.
    Ikarusdk: This mans gives me ceko first game town vibes, and I could read ceko pretty well back in the day, this is my strongest town read.
    Vittae: Vittae is asking all the right questions, getting meta reads, prompting people, breaking down interactions, this is pro-town behavior.
    Varcron: This revolves mostly around the claim he made, which while I think can be made by anyone of any alignment, I can see it more often than not, coming from a town perspective, especially as the first claim made. There is a shot we're being bamboozled so hard by an unprompted claim from scum, but I don't think that is the case here.
    PoD: Mans hasn't made a lot of content yet, but I suspect mans is just rusty, and is trying to get the gears to turn again, I suspect town, but intentional lurking is always a possibility.
    MM: MM has always been an enigma to me, and any attempts to read MM feel off, and I feel like he wraps all of his content in multiple layers of WIFOM that go over my head. I'll get a better feel for MM throughout the day, but this read I have the least confidence in.
    Mizery: This is a scum lean pending a couple answered that I might have missed,
    1.) Varcron and I are were at the bottom of your list near the start, but pod and loldebite flew right by us to be the new bottom, what makes you think pod and loldebite are more likely to be scum?
    2.) What caused MM to go into your town reads?
    Also in general it doesn't feel like your engaging too much with other players, responding such, you pumped out a couple of read lists but there's hardly any engagement from you to other players regarding game-related subjects.
    Loldebite: their vote on vittae is goofy, and while publicly doing the math for a hypothetical d1 claim is "pro-town" if it doesn't help us or actually provide a plan then it's a nothingburger. Outside of that setup speculation, what else has been done from loldebite?
    -sorry guys I missed SOD
    -talk about old games
    -ask about skips
    -talk about how mafia don't get cits
    -provide a read list with a lot of talk about "feeling"
    -suggest that tpr are expendable in a hypothetical d1 claim world
    -provide some responses to your reads list
    -do math
    -talk about math more
    -talk about MM's meta (also wtf I totally see MM as a powerwolfer)
    -provide games for meta reading
    -say something was funny
    -wow an actual post talking about interactions between different players, crazy!!!
    -poke at PoD's inactivity
    -say ika might be faking their obv genuine reactions
    -get confused by a vote from pod
    -jump out at a very choice misread of vittae's post.

    I'm not really buying that loldebite is town right now.
    -vote loldebite
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    deathworld's and RLVG's suicides made me lul. I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that I gave you an night action, and that you used it to kill yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    At least Mesk has lewdy lefty and raunchy righty. You're not even Canadian.
    Quote Originally Posted by FM-Shocked Kirby Face View Post
    Deathworlds is simply better than us at this game. Don't kill them for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    fucketh me in the ass

  7. ISO #207

  8. ISO #208

  9. ISO #209

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Good morning/afternoon/evening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post


    I agree, but was it towny? In fact, that's basically what I'm saying: it looks good, but does it actually do anything else?
    Deathworlds set up speculation was a speculation, and did not attempt to solve the game. Towny? I don't think so. It was just fun to read. I guess I should've just left that out from my reason why I town read him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I've only skimmed through the rest of what has been said, but first thing that catches my eye since I was talking about walls:



    This feels like the "right kind" of mechanical talk: it actually indicates what happens in a rationally conducted game (and tells us that claims should be delayed to avoid giving info to scum so that they can't adjust their fake claims). I am tempted to give Debbie a preliminary townread for this - it's not strong, but I see someone actively trying to figure out what should be done.
    @ikarusdk I am curious to see what you think about this vs Deathworlds' mechanical talk
    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    Shit.

    Actually, we DO gain something out of it : it gives us better information about the kind of setup we're playing. Assuming EXACTLY 1 scum fakeclaims citizen (which is the optimal response IMO) :
    .
    I agree that Loldebites post was an actual breakdown of the game set up.

    Two things I do not like loldebites mechanical break down post, and I think this is quite significant. When I read this post at first I had a feeling it was pre-written. But it is presented to us as a new thought. Now, with that in mind I had a re-read of the post this morning and I'm surprised to see that it was written in 4 minutes. Perhaps it is possible. Perhaps loldebites is used to the layout of the breakdowns in most games. But because something is possible, does that mean that is how it actually happened? *inserts speculation - Perhaps it was pre written in mafia chat to present it as a mechanical breakdown of the set up to appear helpful as a town, especially because we've been talking about how deathworlds breakdown is NAI (i still don't really know what this means but I think I do) and I townread him for it.

  10. ISO #210

  11. ISO #211

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Saw the post in POD's ISO, so it wasn't a false statement (see Vittae's reply), but if it had been, what would you see scummy about it? Vittae strikes me as a very, very analytical player, and I don't think they would need to take the risk of making up something this early into the game.

    ~~

    As for Vittae's argument itself, I think it fits with what I perceive (extra defensiveness due to feeling uncomfortable as scum), so I quite like the reasoning. That being said, I'd still like to hear his version before straight up tunneling him, considering it could also stem from a NAI lack of confidence after not having played for years.
    Lying is always scummy.

    I SOMEHOW missed that sentence, fuck me must I look idiotic.

  12. ISO #212

  13. ISO #213

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    Exactly what is considered "content" for you? I feel like there are a lot of contents so far. Do you consider extremely long posts someone being super analytic considered "content" while short posts like these aren't?
    All the following is :
    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    I don't know if this is an attempt on trying to pocket me to get me off of voting them.
    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    I mean I generally vote people to get a better read on them. I voted Vittae and I sorta like his reaction toward my vote, hence why I switch my vote to Lold. They went ahead and voted Vittae after I switched vote. One thing I noticed is that they definitely avoided trying to omgus me.
    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    Or do you think that only 1 scum is between one of us, and that votes should be between us two here.
    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    I assume that both loldebite and I are your two top suspects? Can I ask if you think we are bussing each others? This early in?
    And this is not even cherry picking your posts, it's just that all the interesting posts at the end of p4 are yours

  14. ISO #214

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Vittae
    Does come off as very analytical. Nothing he said alarmed me or anything, feels genuine in his questions and analysis. Asks the right questions as someone already pointed out and has thoughts that aligns with mine. Strongest town in my book

    Varcron
    I am just going by my own limited experience here. First unprompted town PR claim - is town. Perhaps to WIFOM or double WIFOM or even triple WIFOM. Towny. But I'd really like to wait for Varcron to start his day.

    Deathworlds
    I still feel deathworlds is towny. Emphasis has been made about his initial mechanical breakdown, but that was just a speculation and the reason to put him in scumlist for his post having no actual game solving content means little to me. If anything, deathworlds certain instructions, while can be made as scum to gain towncred, are still valid.

    Mizery
    Her irritation of other people not reading her post made me giggle. Felt genuine. Having said that, nothing of her posts screamed out anything bad. I don't agree with some of her early reads, but we are still early in D1 so that's fine.

    PoD
    Well people are grilling PoD for not coming up with genuine game related content! True, but PoD has been away for 7 years and because I don't know how he used to play i am willing to give him a benefit of the doubt. People do need time to get back into things you know?

    Although I do need to say too many of PoD's post were AtE, which I don't like, and if my first game taught me anything, you gotta be careful about that.


    MM
    It turns out I do not like MM's posts. One reason is I disagree how you boost Loldebites breakdown when I had my doubts, and I still have my doubts as I explained in my previous post. The another one is this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Does this indicate he's scum, though? Also, I'm looking at your ISO and cannot say I am exactly impressed - not that I have to be impressed by the first half of D1, but this reaction is quite heavy considering your content level so far. Is there something you see that would indicate people accusing you are scum (as opposed to just people saying things you don't like)?
    Again, it is because I already have Loldebites at the bottom of my list.

    Loldebite
    Please refer to my previous post.



    This is a read straight outta bed, and my reads can be as fleeting as a naked man running away from a husband of a married woman he slept with.

  15. ISO #215

  16. ISO #216

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    If you think I'm lurking, its definitely not intentional.
    Yeah, fuck activity reading.
    On that note : yes, I might appear online about 13h per days or more. I (almost) always have a couple tabs open with the game, that I check from time to time. I'm not actually all that active. Only reason I'm mentioning it is because it has been raised already and well, yeah, I probably should tell you about it while I can, just to clarify.

  17. ISO #217

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    Good morning/afternoon/evening.



    Deathworlds set up speculation was a speculation, and did not attempt to solve the game. Towny? I don't think so. It was just fun to read. I guess I should've just left that out from my reason why I town read him.





    I agree that Loldebites post was an actual breakdown of the game set up.

    Two things I do not like loldebites mechanical break down post, and I think this is quite significant. When I read this post at first I had a feeling it was pre-written. But it is presented to us as a new thought. Now, with that in mind I had a re-read of the post this morning and I'm surprised to see that it was written in 4 minutes. Perhaps it is possible. Perhaps loldebites is used to the layout of the breakdowns in most games. But because something is possible, does that mean that is how it actually happened? *inserts speculation - Perhaps it was pre written in mafia chat to present it as a mechanical breakdown of the set up to appear helpful as a town, especially because we've been talking about how deathworlds breakdown is NAI (i still don't really know what this means but I think I do) and I townread him for it.
    If you think I spare games I signup for any time before it's actually started, you're off the wrong piste.
    There's a reason I can't come up with roles for KRCs, and it's because I don't do that.

    Yeah, 4 minutes, unless I was already working on it in that last post ? But I would've said so... mhhh

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    Wrapping up a big post but sparing a bit of time to answer quickly :

    Not sure, felt genuine to me, not much of a "muhaha I am making them waste their precious time on me recollecting memories muhaha". That's about it, really



    There is nothing to explain about PoD, I don't think I'm basing this feeling on anything remotely solid, call it a weak gut feeling if you will. In other words : there's nothing to explain, I don't know either.



    I don't often assume someone is wrong when playing mafia (which admittedly has gotten me inaccurately turbo nitro hard tunneling on... some of this forum's least bright members). In fact, off the top of my head I can't recall a single time I've make that assumption. I guess I think assuming people are wrong is... wrong
    Oh. Oopsie !

  18. ISO #218

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    Yeah, fuck activity reading.
    On that note : yes, I might appear online about 13h per days or more. I (almost) always have a couple tabs open with the game, that I check from time to time. I'm not actually all that active. Only reason I'm mentioning it is because it has been raised already and well, yeah, I probably should tell you about it while I can, just to clarify.
    Bad phrasing : it has come up in previous games

  19. ISO #219

  20. ISO #220

  21. ISO #221

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Hm, well some of you write essays for posts, so I have only had a chance to skim over some of them. I'll put my reads lists here with explanations then delve into some of the larger posts once I have more time to process them.

    Varcron
    ikarusdk
    Deathworlds
    powerofdeath

    Marshmallow Marshall
    Vittae

    Mizery
    Loldebite

    And here are my reasons as to why my reads are as they are currently:

    Varcron: It's me..... Duhhhhh
    Ikarusdk: I don't think I've been wrong reading you yet, and like Deathworlds said previously you remind me a lot of ceko, who I played with quite a bit in the mod as well as FM.
    Deathworlds: I liked our interactions last night quite a bit, and that's mostly what I'm basing this read off of currently. It isn't as strong of a town read as perhaps Ikarus however you are on the good list for today.
    PoD: There's not too much here for me but so far I have quite liked his posts, and the limited interaction I have had with PoD as well as his attitude and tone during the game definitely contributes to this read.
    MM: Mostly absent, not much for me to say here as I haven't formed a decent read on him.
    Vittae: I don't know..... He seems kind of towny but I haven't played with him before and I need to see more posting before I can firmly plant a read down
    Mizery: Don't like how they're phrasing their posts, don't like the content, and I don't like the reads.
    Loldebite: Loldebite for now is my top scum read, but something is off with them. Everything they have said so far in my eyes has in some capacity been scummy, and I can't place my finger on why yet, however this read will likely develop in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16
    I feel like I'm watching a horror movie and the protag. group is exploring an old house or something and everything is super quiet, but you know something bad is about to happen. Mafia man is about to come out from behind the basement furnace and gun down varcron right in front of me. And there will be nothing I can do.

  22. ISO #222

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Varcron View Post
    Hm, well some of you write essays for posts, so I have only had a chance to skim over some of them. I'll put my reads lists here with explanations then delve into some of the larger posts once I have more time to process them.

    Varcron
    ikarusdk
    Deathworlds
    powerofdeath

    Marshmallow Marshall
    Vittae

    Mizery
    Loldebite

    And here are my reasons as to why my reads are as they are currently:

    Varcron: It's me..... Duhhhhh
    Ikarusdk: I don't think I've been wrong reading you yet, and like Deathworlds said previously you remind me a lot of ceko, who I played with quite a bit in the mod as well as FM.
    Deathworlds: I liked our interactions last night quite a bit, and that's mostly what I'm basing this read off of currently. It isn't as strong of a town read as perhaps Ikarus however you are on the good list for today.
    PoD: There's not too much here for me but so far I have quite liked his posts, and the limited interaction I have had with PoD as well as his attitude and tone during the game definitely contributes to this read.
    MM: Mostly absent, not much for me to say here as I haven't formed a decent read on him.
    Vittae: I don't know..... He seems kind of towny but I haven't played with him before and I need to see more posting before I can firmly plant a read down
    Mizery: Don't like how they're phrasing their posts, don't like the content, and I don't like the reads.
    Loldebite: Loldebite for now is my top scum read, but something is off with them. Everything they have said so far in my eyes has in some capacity been scummy, and I can't place my finger on why yet, however this read will likely develop in the future.
    I know ceko, ceko used to play alot in arcade. Don't worry, I am not the same person.

    To be quite honest, I don't like the tone PoD has used so far. As I stated earlier, they felt more or less AtE.

    I also disagree with you about Vittae. Vittae has been the most outspoken player here thus far. Plenty of good content to go through.

    Would you be able to explain why you feel loldebites sound scummy when you manage to find why later on?

  23. ISO #223

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    Wait who said we are all mass claiming? This is the first person to claim
    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    Which brings me to my point : should we make citizens claim to clear out PoE ? I know, I know, it is lame and cringe...
    So, should we be doing it ?
    I believe this is what Mizery is referring to, and Varcron claimed PR before.

  24. ISO #224

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    Yeah, fuck activity reading.
    On that note : yes, I might appear online about 13h per days or more. I (almost) always have a couple tabs open with the game, that I check from time to time. I'm not actually all that active. Only reason I'm mentioning it is because it has been raised already and well, yeah, I probably should tell you about it while I can, just to clarify.
    Yah I will also be appearing online, but I am not actually on the computer reading through so I don't believe in activity reading.

  25. ISO #225

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    I know ceko, ceko used to play alot in arcade. Don't worry, I am not the same person.

    To be quite honest, I don't like the tone PoD has used so far. As I stated earlier, they felt more or less AtE.

    I also disagree with you about Vittae. Vittae has been the most outspoken player here thus far. Plenty of good content to go through.

    Would you be able to explain why you feel loldebites sound scummy when you manage to find why later on?
    Well when I say 'good content' is from my POV

  26. ISO #226

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    I believe this is what Mizery is referring to, and Varcron claimed PR before.
    I honestly don’t think its quite a good idea on day 1, I did mention that we should do a mass claim in one of my earlier posts, but only on day 2 if no mafia died by then.

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    I was rereading the setup and saw that hidden PR can be a citizen, which sucks because if we have 1 mafia pretending to be a PR, and we only have 2 town PR, then there is no counter claims.

    Since most PRs can be either alignments, it boil down to your basic scumhunting.

    Oh a person claim detective? A doc? Well he can be mafia detective or doc too! I strongly believe that a massclaim should be in order on Day 2 if no mafia died.

  27. ISO #227

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    I honestly don’t think its quite a good idea on day 1, I did mention that we should do a mass claim in one of my earlier posts, but only on day 2 if no mafia died by then.
    I concur, a massclaim D1 is a bad idea

    D2 it could be useful though, or D3 depending on if our first lynch is scum or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16
    I feel like I'm watching a horror movie and the protag. group is exploring an old house or something and everything is super quiet, but you know something bad is about to happen. Mafia man is about to come out from behind the basement furnace and gun down varcron right in front of me. And there will be nothing I can do.

  28. ISO #228

  29. ISO #229

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    Good morning/afternoon/evening.

    Deathworlds set up speculation was a speculation, and did not attempt to solve the game. Towny? I don't think so. It was just fun to read. I guess I should've just left that out from my reason why I town read him.
    Hm. It's hard to be conclusive on Deathworlds for now, I guess, so I'll just wait and see how he fares in terms of reads later today.

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    I agree that Loldebites post was an actual breakdown of the game set up.

    Two things I do not like loldebites mechanical break down post, and I think this is quite significant. When I read this post at first I had a feeling it was pre-written. But it is presented to us as a new thought. Now, with that in mind I had a re-read of the post this morning and I'm surprised to see that it was written in 4 minutes. Perhaps it is possible. Perhaps loldebites is used to the layout of the breakdowns in most games. But because something is possible, does that mean that is how it actually happened? *inserts speculation - Perhaps it was pre written in mafia chat to present it as a mechanical breakdown of the set up to appear helpful as a town, especially because we've been talking about how deathworlds breakdown is NAI (i still don't really know what this means but I think I do) and I townread him for it.
    "NAI" means "Not Alignment Indicative", so I'm not sure I understand what you mean xD. However...
    @Loldebite how come you managed to write that post in 4 minutes? I normally don't check that kind of stuff and the rapidity of the reply eluded me, but I must say Ikarus has a point about this lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  30. ISO #230

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    Wait who said we are all mass claiming? This is the first person to claim
    Mass claiming straight away without town flips to make boxes to put wolves in only helps scum at the moment by telling them what to fakeclaim + what we can do at night. We shouldn't be doing this rn (and we aren't, anyway).
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  31. ISO #231

  32. ISO #232

  33. ISO #233

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    If you think I spare games I signup for any time before it's actually started, you're off the wrong piste.
    There's a reason I can't come up with roles for KRCs, and it's because I don't do that.

    Yeah, 4 minutes, unless I was already working on it in that last post ? But I would've said so... mhhh

    Oh. Oopsie !
    oh nevermind my last question to you lol

    Ikarus, am I correct in my understanding that you are scumreading me because you think I'm wrong on Debbie? Also, what are your thoughts on the post I quoted from him, considering it basically answers your concern?

    ~~

    Reading POD's posts, I remain unimpressed, but also feel like he's just being "the nice guy", remembering good memories about the site or something like that. That is not alignment indicative in itself, but it becomes scummy if it lasts too long without more elaborate content (considering his pushes, questions, etc. have been strictly defensive and borderline OMGUS-y so far, with a shallow "liking" of Vittae's reaction to his vote that isn't backed up by any other post in his ISO). Considering this, I am placing a pressure vote. I don't think we should lynch him just yet, but definetly think he is a little too comfortable with one vote on him.

    -vote powerofdeath
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  34. ISO #234

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    Were already winning this game no need to play it so straight
    What makes you say this?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  35. ISO #235

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Tbh I'm falling asleep on my keyboard so I should go away lol, but Mizery's "we're winning" is pinging me hard on the side of TMI. It's not like we have any particularly super promising leads at the moment, so I have doubts here, big doubts

    Preliminary list of reads before sleep:

    MM (duh)

    Varcron (claim; there's nothing else for now, really, so he gets his own special category until we get into more mechanica stuff)

    Vittae (seems skilled and relatively charismatic, and although they definetly have been trying to get things moving, this could easily be done as any alignment, so I remain vigilant even though they are towny)

    Loldebite (solely because of the "what would scum claim" mech post, which isn't much, but which is something)


    Ikarus (pending something to read him, more on this later)
    POD (decaying into scum if nothing changes, but for now, he still has the benefit of the doubt)


    Mizery (TMI?)
    Deathworlds (still icky about the early mech post being performative-ish, nothing much said since then)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  36. ISO #236

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    NO ONE likes my walls, also I did a lot of responding in my play by play quotes, SAD!
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    deathworld's and RLVG's suicides made me lul. I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that I gave you an night action, and that you used it to kill yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    At least Mesk has lewdy lefty and raunchy righty. You're not even Canadian.
    Quote Originally Posted by FM-Shocked Kirby Face View Post
    Deathworlds is simply better than us at this game. Don't kill them for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    fucketh me in the ass

  37. ISO #237

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    deathworld's and RLVG's suicides made me lul. I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that I gave you an night action, and that you used it to kill yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    At least Mesk has lewdy lefty and raunchy righty. You're not even Canadian.
    Quote Originally Posted by FM-Shocked Kirby Face View Post
    Deathworlds is simply better than us at this game. Don't kill them for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    fucketh me in the ass

  38. ISO #238

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    I can never get attachments to work in the way I want them to here huh
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    deathworld's and RLVG's suicides made me lul. I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that I gave you an night action, and that you used it to kill yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    At least Mesk has lewdy lefty and raunchy righty. You're not even Canadian.
    Quote Originally Posted by FM-Shocked Kirby Face View Post
    Deathworlds is simply better than us at this game. Don't kill them for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    fucketh me in the ass

  39. ISO #239

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Tbh I'm falling asleep on my keyboard so I should go away lol, but Mizery's "we're winning" is pinging me hard on the side of TMI. It's not like we have any particularly super promising leads at the moment, so I have doubts here, big doubts

    Preliminary list of reads before sleep:

    MM (duh)

    Varcron (claim; there's nothing else for now, really, so he gets his own special category until we get into more mechanica stuff)

    Vittae (seems skilled and relatively charismatic, and although they definetly have been trying to get things moving, this could easily be done as any alignment, so I remain vigilant even though they are towny)

    Loldebite (solely because of the "what would scum claim" mech post, which isn't much, but which is something)


    Ikarus (pending something to read him, more on this later)
    POD (decaying into scum if nothing changes, but for now, he still has the benefit of the doubt)


    Mizery (TMI?)
    Deathworlds (still icky about the early mech post being performative-ish, nothing much said since then)
    Theres a good chance I wont change

  40. ISO #240

  41. ISO #241

  42. ISO #242

  43. ISO #243

  44. ISO #244

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    I think it’s quite colorful and pretty.
    why thank you pod, but I would also appreciate people looking at any of my responses to the many posts made within that same post.
    But I guess if I spoiler anything then people don't read it
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    deathworld's and RLVG's suicides made me lul. I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that I gave you an night action, and that you used it to kill yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    At least Mesk has lewdy lefty and raunchy righty. You're not even Canadian.
    Quote Originally Posted by FM-Shocked Kirby Face View Post
    Deathworlds is simply better than us at this game. Don't kill them for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    fucketh me in the ass

  45. ISO #245

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    What makes you say this?
    I agree with your read but what you quoted here in this post is NAL
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16
    I feel like I'm watching a horror movie and the protag. group is exploring an old house or something and everything is super quiet, but you know something bad is about to happen. Mafia man is about to come out from behind the basement furnace and gun down varcron right in front of me. And there will be nothing I can do.

  46. ISO #246

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Varcron View Post
    Hm, well some of you write essays for posts, so I have only had a chance to skim over some of them. I'll put my reads lists here with explanations then delve into some of the larger posts once I have more time to process them.

    Varcron
    ikarusdk
    Deathworlds
    powerofdeath

    Marshmallow Marshall
    Vittae

    Mizery
    Loldebite

    And here are my reasons as to why my reads are as they are currently:

    Varcron: It's me..... Duhhhhh
    Ikarusdk: I don't think I've been wrong reading you yet, and like Deathworlds said previously you remind me a lot of ceko, who I played with quite a bit in the mod as well as FM.
    Deathworlds: I liked our interactions last night quite a bit, and that's mostly what I'm basing this read off of currently. It isn't as strong of a town read as perhaps Ikarus however you are on the good list for today.
    PoD: There's not too much here for me but so far I have quite liked his posts, and the limited interaction I have had with PoD as well as his attitude and tone during the game definitely contributes to this read.
    MM: Mostly absent, not much for me to say here as I haven't formed a decent read on him.
    Vittae: I don't know..... He seems kind of towny but I haven't played with him before and I need to see more posting before I can firmly plant a read down
    Mizery: Don't like how they're phrasing their posts, don't like the content, and I don't like the reads.
    Loldebite: Loldebite for now is my top scum read, but something is off with them. Everything they have said so far in my eyes has in some capacity been scummy, and I can't place my finger on why yet, however this read will likely develop in the future.
    Is this a joke ? Cherry on top is that posting a readslist with reads like that is one of the reason I'm scumread by other people, apparently.

    Overall, tho, I do like that readslist. I'd probably put MM lower and vittæ higher. Let's see what becomes of it once I've caught up.

  47. ISO #247

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    Bucketstrat
    Bucketstrat
    Bucketstrat
    Kay so let me get this straight.
    You're quite convinced I'm scum and so does literally everyone else. My only contribution was a mechs talk where I literally showed that mass claiming on d1 sucked ass. And you wanna do just that ? Wtf ?

  48. ISO #248

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Hm. It's hard to be conclusive on Deathworlds for now, I guess, so I'll just wait and see how he fares in terms of reads later today.


    "NAI" means "Not Alignment Indicative", so I'm not sure I understand what you mean xD. However...
    @Loldebite how come you managed to write that post in 4 minutes? I normally don't check that kind of stuff and the rapidity of the reply eluded me, but I must say Ikarus has a point about this lol.
    FOR FUCKS SAKE CAN YOU READ THE GAME BEFORE POSTING STUPID SHIT ?

    My LITERAL LAST POST was answering that question already

  49. ISO #249

  50. ISO #250

 

 

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