S-FM 351: Mini Fooling Party

[scumbot5679]

see, thats a lie b/c you went no where last night

[scumbot5679]

I mean, I admire trying to talk your way out of it but it just won't work

[bakermir]

guy, you tried to argue that MM was a bad vote b/c you fake docced him

I think we always hit a wolf between pod/MM

and another in scumbot/flea but i am less confident about these two.

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

I also see another mechanical indicator; there is a good chance of MM being town but the problem is, I can't 100% confirm that world. I also don't find it beneficial talk more on it because bus driver and this role can actually stop another NK if they can find each other. I think seeing a vig without a gun/DH yeeted today is the best chance we have anyway

I don't think the bus driver should out because you guys can't see the hidden roles in the game atm and that creeps me out the most about Gikkle's posture

oh yeah I certainly argued against MM


sigh

[bakermir]

see, thats a lie b/c you went no where last night

well IDK why did you get that feedback

I was on you

[bakermir]

Are the votes locked? Because I might be wasting my time here

[scumbot5679]

daym

-unvote

I hope people understand why it makes no sense to vote mm
I am hardclaiming doc visit on mm
Triad can't out but I know there is a triad vote on mm
If you are town please unvote

and here you are trying to get us to unvote MM

[bakermir]

Also Scumbot I don't believe you are a tracker of some sort. You are obviously lying or bluffing to bait the DH vote here and I appreciate the effort, I don't think that's healthy tho. Auwt likes that hammer any alignment lol

Gikkle is most likely the last Triad here if we are in a 1v3 world

[scumbot5679]

Are the votes locked? Because I might be wasting my time here

I mean, you have 46 hours till Gikkle votes you.

[scumbot5679]

no, I'm not a tracker. I'm a detective. it's just off site the detective role is called a tracker but inno visited Pod the other night and you visited no one.

[bakermir]

and here you are trying to get us to unvote MM

sounds like a derp from me given that I was out partying

also it clearly shows lack of TMI from my end and a protective concern because of my rolecard.

I still believed in Inno/MM and one in Gikkle/Auwt so it doesn't really change anything on the macro level of things

[bakermir]

no, I'm not a tracker. I'm a detective. it's just off site the detective role is called a tracker but inno visited Pod the other night and you visited no one.

isn't that a proof itself I am not DH? You would have seen me visiting you

[scumbot5679]

I am impressed that you think you can talk your way out of this.

[bakermir]

I think the lack of self pres coming from MM and Innovation shows I am not teamed with them

Both of them did nothing until they were on chopping board and then started claiming some bullshit roles.

Gikkle have done the same as MM and Innovation. Claimed things for their own survival.

Auwt wasn't getting chopped when she claimed Butler but the role itself is always questionable due to its nature

[bakermir]

I am impressed that you think you can talk your way out of this.

IDK why do you think I am the last triad when there is clear evidence I didn't kill you as per your investigative check. you are gonna throw because you want to believe Gikkle's mechanical speculation about DH holstering which doesn't exist in the setup

[scumbot5679]

I mean, I know you're scum, and arguing with you is futile but I have time to burn before dinner is ready. If your claim is that you visited me and my result is that you went nowhere then you are clearly lying. I mean I think there's a scenario where if you where you were blocked then maybe I'd see you go nowhere but I'm not sure that works mechanically and your first reaction to me saying that you went nowhere is "why would I go anywhere" which doesn't really make any sense from someone saying that DID visit me and I would think that would be your first reaction.

[scumbot5679]

i am going to unvote just to hear Gikkle and Auwt before hammer but I doubt you are town

-unvote

[bakermir]

I mean, I know you're scum, and arguing with you is futile but I have time to burn before dinner is ready. If your claim is that you visited me and my result is that you went nowhere then you are clearly lying. I mean I think there's a scenario where if you where you were blocked then maybe I'd see you go nowhere but I'm not sure that works mechanically and your first reaction to me saying that you went nowhere is "why would I go anywhere" which doesn't really make any sense from someone saying that DID visit me and I would think that would be your first reaction.

you are thinking in 2 dimensions here and I am on 3 dimensions. I might aswell be a citizen all along trying to do my best to kill Triads but it doesn't matter fypov

you should also know that the game would have ended if I were triad and you are indeed a tracker because it would require for triad!baker to convince both auwt and gikkle to vote scumbot at this point which is never happening and host would have ended the game.

I just think you are way too comfortable with the information you got and sadly I can't tell you more than what I did anyway

[bakermir]

remember town can lie

and town have incentive to lie in this very specific setup because triad are uninformed

[bakermir]

Skip isn't allowed.

It is entirely possible for the town to claw back a win by deceiving the triad about who is triad.

Also Gikkle was lying about holstering

[bakermir]

-vote Gikkle

leaving this here. if i were to guess either in a 2v2 or 1v3 Gikkle is always the triad here. Case on them is evidently strong.

[Gikkle]

Scumbot do you actually want me to argue here or no?
Because this seems pretty case closed since you saw baker visit no one & they claimed to have visited you
Plus this is the second time they are claiming to not have protected who they were expected to protect
I'll do it if you think there's any legitimate chance it's not baker here though

-vote Bakermir

[scumbot5679]

Argue what? With him? it might be fun for a few posts so its up to you. I think he's scum but if he's not then its on me. I'll hammer after Auwt.

[bakermir]

leaving a quick run down for auwt:

Gikkle is obv triad.
My goal was to cause Triad elimination on their own slots.
Town has incentive to pretend as Triad coming to late game and lie.
Scumbot doesn't understand the late game of this setup.
I thought Gikkle to be town coming to D2 but yesterday they have open wolfed with their fake claim and manipulated scumbot.
Gikke have done their best to protect Innovation and get Auwt or me lynched.
Claiming last is always = triad
Both Gikkle and Innovation was forced to claim when they were cornered.
I am claiming Citizen and did my best to play the way I did for a potential 2v2.
However this backfired on me once Gikkle realized Innovation was the yeet and was able to make a better case against me instead of Auwt.
Scumbot won't trust me because of how Gikkle invested their gambit against me but scumbot might trust Auwt's judgement so this game isn't lost yet for town.

It is your decision to let Gikkle win this game or win it for town @Auwt

[bakermir]

Pelts:

Bakermir: 2

Gikkle: 1

[Auwt]

I think this prob means Bake is scum b/c he went nowhere.

That is game.

[Auwt]

if you are referring to the Gikkle's plan then no I have no idea what was that about even

No, I won't buy it.
In what world would a doctor stay at home ?
None.
Thanks.

[Auwt]

I had bluffed on D2 and actually used a bodyguard charge instead of doc charge. IT appears Gikkle or Auwt fell for it

You have unlimited BG and 2 doc heal if you were WS, so this does not change anything.
In any case you would be seen as visiting.
And not using your ability last night would have been gamethrowing here.

[Auwt]

Let's make it quick.

1) I know for a fact that Scumbot is town (due to my role)
2) Either Gikkle or Bakermir is scum.
3) Bakermir claimed WS.
4) Gikkle claimed WS.
5) The last triad does not have his previous role anymore, he is now DH.
6) None of the claimed roles are roles that can change target or redirect in any kind of way.
7) Scumbot found bakermir did not move.

With all of this,

-vote bakermir

[scumbot5679]

-vote bakermir

[The Godfather]

bakermir has been hammered. Stand by for the host's review and day-end post!


bakermir (3 [L-0]): scumbot5679, Gikkle, Auwt
Gikkle (1 [L-2]): bakermir

[MartinGG99]

bakermir was last triad

Innovation was moulder
Gikkle was war surgeon
Auwt was Butler
Scumbot was detective

ggs


Throughout the course of this game, I discovered two flaws that I didn't account for in balancing this setup as I was simply not aware of them.

1. People can claim who they are in LWs. I reallllly should've recognized this and made CA better with more favorable / controllable outcomes for them. CA being used (it was never used) was at risk of becoming a pro-town alignment/role cop, although if used with enough skill in a triad/town swap (town dies first) it could cause a bit of chaos.

2. Certain town PRs become much more confirmable as town when either the Dragonhead or the Triad Hidden dies.

In light of these issues, I am currently planning a series of changes for future mini-fooling-party games where:

1. Dragonhead and Triad Hidden are inheritable by other triad members as a dual role (except in the case of Sniper). CA won't be inheritable, and CA will only be able to inherit one of Triad Hidden or Dragonhead at their choice.
2. CA has more control over the outcome. A more explicit example of this (though I haven't settled on anything) would be to allow the CA to create any sort of flip they want to appear for a person.
3. As counter-balance, citizen is removed from the list of possible town hiddens.

[MartinGG99]

https://discord.gg/j5kP8AuHkz

dead/spoiler chat along with other stuff

[bakermir]

gg wp everyone

[MartinGG99]

@powerofdeath
@Marshmallow Marshall
@Auwt
@ikarusdk
@scumbot5679
@Innovation
@Gikkle
@bakermir

[Gikkle]

good game everyone!
fun playin with y'all

[MartinGG99]

Oh and I almost forgot to mention, big thanks to @Renegade

He was fairly helpful behind the scenes as he could do some stuff that I could not do in the position of a host. Handling the situation of Innovation in later days could've gone worse if it were not for him, and that's primarily because Scumbot had the track on Innovation while Innovation was having a bit of inactivity. Which in turn means that if and when I could've been doing a modkill (as well as how the modkill is done) was actively messing with the natural gameplay of this game. For an example of the gameplay impact, if I modkilled Innovation before Scumbot claimed, people could perhaps find Scumbot to be suspicious as the claim is after-the-fact, wherein the natural gameplay possibly would've been claiming against an active innovation in order to get him chopped. After all, if I was going to modkill Innovation, scumbot sees no reason to claim before-hand and risk getting himself killed the night after. So there were various factors that made dealing with the situation rather difficult if I wanted to achieve the lowest amount of gameplay impact from someone's inactivity (which, in a completely natural/normal game, there should be no impact from such things). Renegade stepping in to support and pressure Innovation to make more posts was quite useful in that regard, and I appreciate his efforts.

Aside from that, I once again hope that Innovation is doing better IRL than earlier. I don't think his inactivity was malicious or intentional, and it was just bad luck and stress.

[scumbot5679]

good job town. I think I kind of agree that this might have been a little townsided. That WS/detective/bulter combo was a powerful combo. But there was also some luck with all the citizens dying and town prs having a field day. The mafia God's truly favored town this day.

[Renegade]

Thanks @MartinGG99 for hosting. I enjoyed being a mentor. @Innovation you did well for your first game.

[powerofdeath]

gg, was fun quick one

[Auwt]

gg everyone.
Thanks for hosting Martin.