so apprently mobile doesnt want to load and we are out. if somone needed something do an @ im remot desktop
It is because a cl setup it's perfect to fall back on.
How about you give me something better then it's shit?
I mean litarly his entire read list he made there is an easy way to cult outside of it and push every lynch with no blame on himself. How about you address the points in full
He litarly made it himself. The before of not refuting the points (and that's what possed me off and rage cus I'm just being ignored) and now he still doesn't want to do it.
I would expect town quick to at least flesh out his thoughts and give more reasons on why or I dunno, ADRESS MY POINTS
Now I'm the only user... joy
Whew!
I'm here and caught up \o/
Need sleep so pls excuse if/when things get erratic, have a heap of half-thoughts to follow up from sporadic notes overnight.
Firstly @ika - why ask the 'who would you convert' question? I'm with yzb on this - I legit can't see how this is helpful for Town moving forward- discussing it seems like a bad idea - afaict all answers except one are purely hypothetical/get us nowhere, Cult get ideas on who they can push/should avoid/can setup with future recruiting and the one 'true' answer is likely to be WIFOMed to the hilt?
TLDR Town get dead ends/nothing concrete, Cult get future ammo.
How does this help Town? / How is this acceptably different to putting cult strategy ideas on the table in depth D1?
Same question @Firebringer / anyone else pushing it today that I've missed.
becasue nobody has portrayed the answer i thought of yet or my actions. furthermore it allows an idea of if someone is to flip cult (and not CL) then we could look at who said what and go from there.
i know its WIFOM crap come the end of it but to avoid that is asking for the justifcation becasue CL is gonna most likely do one of 2 cases:
say who they legit converted and expalin it in truth
lie about it and will then have to make a fabricated reason on why that person and can lead to others questioing it and potentialy out it
you also self answer the question with your own response on this because if they suddenly "change" their entire agenda to fit who should be pushed/not it would show form the previous days or the player would have to fabricate the reasons on why its now a set way of "fitting what works best for cult"
Blla so hard to get my brain working right now, but no - afaict it doesn't answer anything.
You're not asking who you think 'should be pushed/not it' and I don't understand
"because if they suddenly "change" their entire agenda to fit who should be pushed/not it would show form the previous days or the player would have to fabricate the reasons on why its now a set way of "fitting what works best for cult"
Just... no?
Walk me through it:
Player A said they would hypothetically have converted Player B
Player B was converted - that means_____
OR
Player B was not converted - that means _____
The next day:
Player A said they would hypothetically have converted Player B again - that means_______
OR
Player A said they would hypothetically have converted Player C instead of player B - that means _______
So much nothing! As far as I can tell. If I'm missing a step that you can break down in a similar fashion to prove how anything someone says there points to scum please show me how.
Imo though, if you're Town, forget hypotheticals. Conversions are cult night decisions. Hypothesising them from Town perspective is going to be as (in)effective at finding scum as postulating about NKs. Consider the possibilities, sure. But don't make it the primary focus.
Just hunt scum, same as D1, same as every game.
Look at what has actually happened/is possibly happening - in the thread.
Unless CL is going deeeeeep the goal for their team today is mislynch.
Find possible alliances/strategic shifts pushing/allowing Town reads/non-town agenda and dig into them. Encourage good communication and coherent Town play.
Have an open mind and reassess if you're going wrong somewhere when there are differences of opinion. Communicate your thoughts. We're the majority and have the advantage if we keep our heads.
Town should never die today.
If they wanna go deep enough to make it the opposite, Cult shoot themselves in the foot and we're one up tomorrow, and with one less conversion.
Aaaaaaaaaand that was not succinct at all.
Welcome to my post night-shift brain.
i feel like your mising my point of this entire thing so im gonna adrsss the big thing on it and then quote that one secions i feel that should maybe clarify.
i am scum hunting. im looking for intent and motives and if someone is fabricating their reaosns.
ill adress the biggest thing i find that pretains to everything but i feel you are thinking im saying X where what im saying is Y
Ok, so FTR I still have yzb largely Town for overall D1 play.
But @yzb25 - How on Earth did you progress from reading SP strongly Town/Defending him to being second vote on the train?
Especially since it was started by your #1 scum read at the time - who is consistently your #1 scum read/WTL today?
And why was it particularly important to you that others jump on the SP train if you had him as a Town read?
the big diffrence in this is simple and is also pointless seeing how we never dicussed it day one so i will talk about the later with the correction
Player A said they would hypothetically have converted Player B - that means as town they are saying what they genuinly belive and will show as such and not be fabricated in the least. as CL if they stay true and flip cultist, we can look back at who said it and maybe use it as poe
OR
Player A said they would hypothetically have converted Player C instead of player B - that means that the cult leader is not only going to have to lie but fabricate the reason then and then if player X who he did convert fliped cult, it would edventaly lead to the eprson becasue ti could make sense of them to be the target
If I understand you correctly, your theory can be reworked to:
We get most information looking at who said what when a player flips cult recruit.
PoE will equal anyone who had that person as a choice for recruit, and anyone who didn't who seems dishonest.
I see this getting more convoluted/unreliable for every night a conversion can be added.
But honestly, I'm not a maths person and I've had no sleep so missing an extra step/something obvious is a possibility. I'll leave it to you/math people and move along.
Are yzb and Quick still your top choices for scum?
Who's more likely CL and why?
Do you have any new thoughts/reads wrt other player alignments?
@Stealthbomber16
What leans/reads do you have on Ika and Mesk?
Yesterday you voted Stealth before FB pushed hard for the SP train; why had he dropped from your focus by this point today?
Going off the top of my head here, but your case against Yzb was essentially that he:
- pushed an opportunistic lynch at Gyr, and then backtracked when he copped heat and pressure for it;
- voiced FoS at you for not discussing strategy;
- had hedgey reads?
Your case against Quick was that he defended Yzb/Didn't rebut the specific points you raised?
I think I already commented on this/agreeing with Quick's take on Yzb at the time.
I can see the possibility that Yzb is scum there, but otoh
- the 'PL' push at Gyr seemed actually to be more about trying to pressure him into action than actually lynching him, which makes it more null than scummy;
- Yzb specifically said after his 'Ika hasn't discussed strategy and that's strange' that he'd been wrong. I interpreted it as he i)noted something inconsistent from your usual play and forgot to consider how the current setup might require that difference; and ii)acknowledged that fact and moved on; This could be Scum backtracking, but I doubt scum pushes at anybody for not discussing best scum strategy in the first place, and revising illogical opinions when new information comes to light is as much an important part of avoiding tunnels as town as it is avoiding attention as scum;
- Hedgey reads could be a thing
- Yzb's tone and flow read pretty transparently
Imo Quick's take on yzb wasn't a problem.
The fact Quick gave you his opinion of events rather than systematically refuting your exact points doesn't make him scummy.
I'm not saying neither of them are scum.
But you KNOW that they can't both have been scum, so you were wrong on at least one and still have that potential today.
It's your job to recognise that and try and analyse who you may be wrong on and why /shrug
My current take is that those who did least for Town D1 were
Mesk
Gyr
In one sense I'm paranoid I'm wrong about this because I have tinfoil on everyone else, and significant doubts that a solo scum actually plays scummy on D1 - but I'm not sure that's enough to overrule their play to here, and my biggest FoS is on them to start with.
Gyr's (lack of) content, his EZ reasons and tone strikes me as more generically scummy than Mesk.
I think I see hints of investment/hunting in Mesk's ISO, like she has reasons and thoughts but just flat out refuses to share them.
(I don't like the blatant refusal to stray from previous meta, as I feel it holds this game back and the motivation for that is always more beneficial for scum - regardless of whether it's driven by alignment or personal choice not to adapt style game to game).
Neither of their EoD contributions reassure me at all but I think I see more logic in Mesk's start to D2 than Gyr's.
I can't find anything that strikes me as genuine Town in Gyr ISO.
[v]Gyr[/v] for now.
I'd really appreciate links to some of Gyr's games in either alignment for comparison pls.
Or at least specific explanations from anybody with reasons to read him Town here.
Oooooorrrrr
-vote Gyrlander
I can follow most of this fine, but disagree on
Mesk being the same as yesterday - she still has attitude, but she has more content and (so far) less narrow focus of direction.
She opened her day with a different vote, one that imo makes logical sense wrt conversion and also half formed tinfoil that I'm pushing back heavily myself right now. It's a far cry from stubbornly pushing your single lynch choice based on gaming the mod and a vote you put down before the suspect even posted.
Gyrlander anger/timing wrt SP lynch seems sus af to me.
What makes you think it's Townie?
None of the claim seemed natural for me.
The difficulty is deciding whether it was scummy, or whether there's validity in it coming from a Town perspective.
FB didn't treat it like a serious reaction test as far as I can tell, and that somewhat reduces the chance it's Towny, unless it's a specific meta thing for him.
(halp)?
Both yourself and @yzb25 unvoted him after his claim and that series of posts, and I still don't understand why.
Also, can you explain the contradiction with the bold 'the one post I really didn't like... .seemed natural' ?
Back to work I go.
hi Ho
I'll pop in if I can, otherwise see you all after I get home tomorrow. Extended day means I won't make actual EoD, but I should be around for a few hours at least before/in the lead up.
Yesterday I thought that my tone when I was town was incredible townie but now you vote me lmao
Anyway, you mentioned probably the two people that have the smallest content, while it is somehow a valid way of finding Bad people I think you should try to find people who are scummy no matter their contribution ;)))!););) O lbl
Thank you Anonymous Donor
Ika is town, Mesk is null leaning town now that she's participating in the conversation.
I do think she has quite the valid case against you, and if your rebuttal is going to be that she should look toward people who have contributed more then you've earned yourself a vote.
-vote Gyrlander
I feel good about Cass. Don't see any change from D1 to D2.
I don't feel bad about Gyr. Seems like typical Town!Gyr to me.
IDK why SB thinks I am Scummy, which is concerning.
Ika is just really Meh and I expect decent content from him and I am not seeing it here. Top pick atm.
Fire is hard for me to read in general, could go either way.
yzb hasn't put out the solid performance we saw from him D1, maybe? Still leaning Town though.
And Mesk is just plain not here.
i know both cant be CL and thats my damn problem. i know one of them are/were town but both of their day 1 plays were so terrible.
i mean if i go with occom razor in MPOV it would be easier to conclude that quick is CL who defended yzb becasue he knows hes town and that yzb is just dumb in the fact he didnt read setup.
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ika*
i am le sad
I think I get this now. If I try to downplay the full extent of my bias / opinions and try to be more roundabout with my conclusions, it makes me look like some sleezy politican who's being fillery / making non-points and throwing out empty, reaching theories.
I'll be more direct then.
Spoiler : here, scroll through this again :
Did you think he had this ridiculous outburst because he got a sudden drive to be town leader? Because he desperately wanted to get his TOWNREAD lynched? (He clearly did not believe SP would flip CL)
For fuck's sake - FB has rolled scum over and over since fucking October and lost over and over. His reputation of being a legendary sheriff jailor has been dragged through the mud. In the signups alone he was still acting salty about losing the last scumgame.
If he'd rolled town in a "trash MZ setup", do you think he'd give a fuck about my scumread? Obviously noone was voting with me and obviously I'd never lead a lynch. He'd just think "lol tinfoil yzb is off on one again".
No. He didn't find me threatening at all. But getting scumread on d1 as scum yet again is clearly a triggering slap in the face after getting shit scum games over and over. This is why he had the SP-vote-outburst.
Don't get me wrong, 10 minutes before EOD I switched to my light town read SP because there were only 5 people on and it was the only feasible lynch - in a setup like this, any lynch is good because even a lynch on a townread eliminates a guess. Some utilitarian "ends justify the means" shit is nothing like FB's outburst tho.
And you dickheads give this plus points because "hurrdurr scum would never want to put himself in the spotlight", "hurrdurr his tone is so towny".
I have played more scumgames with FB than all of you. I have watched him lead mislynches over and over as scum, I've watched him give you your cheap towntone reads as scum. In fact (LOL) - I've even pushed him and got shut down by him as scum. I'm not reaching by acknowledging the skills he has demonstrated over and over.
That's not all, either.
How he's handled his Mesk read has been scummy AF. Mesk is a very significant read because (unless you take the trash townslips seriously) you have no way of reading her but relying on your instinct. But obviously if you're informed you can't draw up any natural instinct.
This is why he's cagey as fuck about his trashy Mesk read. He gave her a free pass on day 1 but apparently found her scummy on day 2 because of making this post:
He said it was scummy because Mesk was being lazy. Lazy?! Wtf?! SRing her for being lazy not only makes no sense from a meta angle, but she HAS CLEARLY BEEN LAZY ALL FUCKING GAME, YET HE HAD TOWNREAD HER ALL FUCKING GAME.Originally Posted by Mesk514
His read on Mesk is completely fucking fake. People were paranoid her tone had changed at d2start so he coasted off that, then switched off because Mesk is clearly an impossible mislynch.
(FYI, He could not have been one of the paranoid people, because he said he toneread her as town.)
And this is all without acknowledging the shitty supposed "townslip" she made, and the question dodging and shitty probing on day 1 that looked like he was looking for a mislynch.
But w/e, the insight of the guy who's sweated out this game harder than everyone else probably holds no weight. Follow up your shitty run-of-the-mill SP mislynch with a shitty run-of-the-mill Gyr mislynch, then DB can consign this to the other 50 "games town lost for being lurking trash".
Or we could vote the Cult Leader? Maybe?
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...221-Death-Note
This was my re-introductory game and I believe my first game with Gyr, this being my second.
LMAO. Same as I said the last post. I thought my posts this game felt like town miles afar and now I'm the most voted wagon? Okey, I must accept I'm not doing much this game appart from defending myself and casting some votes. It's that I just found out that Cultist games make me go OH DAAAAAEEEMNNNN.
And well, stealth, just voting me because I critizised Cass reason to vote me in a way you didn't like is quite lame, don't you think?
Damn, if I die right now I won't be able to win! Plz let me get converted first and then I'll tell you when you guys can lynch me <3
Thank you Anonymous Donor
-vote Firebringer
Summary of main points:
1) Mesk read looks informed.
2) EOD1 outburst looks like scum!Firebringer getting triggered by traumatic past of scum losses.
If these points feel unsubstantiated, it's probably because you didn't read the massive fucking wallpost 5 posts above this.
I feel better about yzb now.
You're voting Gyr based on:
1) A town meta he doesn't actually have. In most games he plays very passive/quietly throughout the whole game.
2) His lack of contribution. There is absolutely no correlation between contribution-levels and scummyness, and the droves of towns who get mislynched stand as testimony.