M-FM XXIV Civilization Gamethread

[Vine]

I never said Warmongers were to -complete- the projects. I stated they would be the one's that contributed the most WHEN they are completed.

Then lynch the top contributor when host reveal their names the next day.

[Cut the Rope]

Vine stop finishing. Top contributor on any project is not confirmed town or scum unless via mod. By saying that it creates WIFOM of if they are or are not scum.

2048 -- working on it but I wish I didn't stop stupid theories. I also have to build it from scratch.

[Cut the Rope]

By stopping these stupid theories time is fucking wasted and it scares newbie players from joining We need as many active players as possible.

[Vine]

Vine stop finishing. Top contributor on any project is not confirmed town or scum unless via mod. By saying that it creates WIFOM of if they are or are not scum.

2048 -- working on it but I wish I didn't stop stupid theories. I also have to build it from scratch.

If all town decided that only day-revealing roles should be the top contributor, anyone else who gets it is scum.

[Cut the Rope]

If all town decided that only day-revealing roles should be the top contributor, anyone else who gets it is scum.

JUST STOP! ......This plan would out these roles to scum OMG.

Vine the way you are posting if you are newbie town I am not going to be sorry for your lynch at all. If you are town you need to stop this bullshit right now.

Damn being busy ATM or that sign would have significant progress.

[2048]

Thought you said not to feed the troll?

[Cut the Rope]

Oh. My. God.

Why don't you read my damn post. If we don't have a lynch in mind, WE LYNCH THE NEUTRAL THAT SWING SCUM IN TERMS OF WIN CONDITIONS. EXPLAIN TO ME WHY YOU DISAGREE WITH THIS. YOU'RE LITERALLY NOT READING ANYTHING I SAY, YOU JUST DECIDE OH I THINK HE'S SCUM AND DISREGARD EVERYTHING

I did read your post. I just disagreed vehemently. I asked for your opinion on the Agent you gave none. If anything you're disregarding what I'm saying when it is a damn fine case. And yes, being a scumread drops your credibility.

[Cut the Rope]

Sorry you're right...I just got hyper. Help stop me 2048...I hate bullshit in threads.

[2048]

It seems Vine loves to stir town about. Hmmmmm.... Manipulator maybe? Seems Chaotic in a way.

Clash of Clans loves to clash now, and it seems I'm the only one with a vote on him.

[Cut the Rope]

It seems Vine loves to stir town about. Hmmmmm.... Manipulator maybe? Seems Chaotic in a way.

Clash of Clans loves to clash now, and it seems I'm the only one with a vote on him.

Oh I entirely agree with you 2048 that Clash is probably scum. But really I gotta vote on Vine because mathematically they are more scum. If Vine turns out to be scum as I'm pretty sure they will, then Clash becomes an obv target for scum because of the fake vote and Vine only defending mine.

[Kik]

We have a claimed researcher, eh? Well the good news is, there are only two possibilities with Fruit ninja's claim.
Option 1: He's telling the truth and is researcher.
In this case, we have no need to take action at this point in time. We let him be. Let him give us happiness and lures to our heart's content. And if he should falter in his loyalty to us, or if it's a rainy day and we don't know who to lynch, we can lynch him and there's no harm done.

Option 2: He's lying.
Since the scientist's (drug dealer) role card doesn't mention the ability to give out fake "one-use lure" feedback, this would mean that 2048 must also be lying. So if this is the case, if/when we lynch fruit ninja and he flips mafia, we get 2-for-1 and can immediately lynch 2048. Even if one of them is a disguiser, we'd still get one guaranteed scum lynch out of this...

(Slight tangent: Unless they're BOTH disguisers, in which case... ouch. But I doubt the hosts put in two disguisers since there can already be up to 3kpn with just factional kills + sk's extra kill. The potential for 5kills in a single night would be too high in a 20 player game, imo.)

Either way, Fruit Ninja is non-town, so he's going to be our permanent "lynch on-deck". So now that we've decided that we are not lynching him today, let's decide who we will lynch.

My vote remains on Vine, for reasons I have previously stated a couple times, as well as some good points brought up by others such as Cut the Rope and I forget who else.

[Kik]

Actually, come to think of it, even if they're both disguisers we would get one of them for sure because the earliest they can have a disguise charge is night 3, which means on day 3 when we get our feedback we would see whether or not happiness was given on night 2, and if there was none we would lynch Fruit Ninja on the spot before he could use his freshly gained charge of disguising. 2048 would still get away though (unless we have a detective, a fillibuster, or a lucky/skilled lookout/doctor). But like I said- VERY unlikely that is even possible in the first place.

[Cut the Rope]

Kik that is beautiful. You are definitely better at wordsmithing than I am. And I doubt 2048 is lying but good idea to keep open the possibility.

[Instagram]

Anyone else getting a ridiculously strong distancing vibe between Cut the Rope and Vine? I am!

[2048]

Actually, come to think of it, even if they're both disguisers we would get one of them for sure because the earliest they can have a disguise charge is night 3, which means on day 3 when we get our feedback we would see whether or not happiness was given on night 2, and if there was none we would lynch Fruit Ninja on the spot before he could use his freshly gained charge of disguising. 2048 would still get away though (unless we have a detective, a fillibuster, or a lucky/skilled lookout/doctor). But like I said- VERY unlikely that is even possible in the first place.

Lol, why are you so bent on there being a disguiser? For you, it's almost like you guarantee there is a disguiser. Why is that so?

[Instagram]

Kik that is beautiful. You are definitely better at wordsmithing than I am. And I doubt 2048 is lying but good idea to keep open the possibility.

Please tell me you are being sarcastic.

[2048]

Anyone else getting a ridiculously strong distancing vibe between Cut the Rope and Vine? I am!

Oooooo... do tell, I didn't notice them.

[Cut the Rope]

Anyone else getting a ridiculously strong distancing vibe between Cut the Rope and Vine? I am!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'm rolling around laughing at this. This has got to be one of the funniest posts I have seen all game on this. In fact I will probably modify my sig!

[2048]

Anyone else getting a ridiculously strong distancing vibe between Cut the Rope and Vine? I am!

Wow, I mis-read that for 'dancing'.......

But no, I still didn't. I've been trying to get close to Vine but our arguments keeps pushing us apart.

[2048]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'm rolling around laughing at this. This has got to be one of the funniest posts I have seen all game on this. In fact I will probably modify my sig!

Yeah... I'm seeing that now too

[Vine]

Anyone else getting a ridiculously strong distancing vibe between Cut the Rope and Vine? I am!

Discrediting more like!

Cut the Rope called me newbie, troll, stupid, etc. so that when I flip town, my last will will not be seriously read by town.

[Vine]

Lol, why are you so bent on there being a disguiser? For you, it's almost like you guarantee there is a disguiser. Why is that so?

Scum-motivated. 2048 is trying to lower the guard of town, and discrediting anyone who suggested the possibility of disguiser.

[Cut the Rope]

Damn! The ability to edit signatures is locked... I can't edit my sig...*cries a small bit*

[2048]

Scum-motivated. 2048 is trying to lower the guard of town, and discrediting anyone who suggested the possibility of disguiser.

There's always a possibility of disguiser. But what I'm trying to figure out, is why he is so sure there actually is a disguiser in this game.

Unless you'd like to answer that?

[Cut the Rope]

There's always a possibility of disguiser. But what I'm trying to figure out, is why he is so sure there actually is a disguiser in this game.

Unless you'd like to answer that?

Vine answering that would be really good Since Vine was the first person who mentioned it ever. *nods*

[2048]

Tell me, are you certain that town has a Doctor?

The only one's that know of there being a disguiser right now are the Warmongers.

[2048]

That is why kik's statement sounded odd it me.

Why, when we've had no unknown deaths, would kik know there is a Disguiser already? Did you learn of this information last night perhaps?

[Vine]

There's always a possibility of disguiser. But what I'm trying to figure out, is why he is so sure there actually is a disguiser in this game.

Unless you'd like to answer that?

When is Kik sure? He is just stating the possibilities, so that town can prepare the countermeasures.

It seems that 2048 and Cut the Rope want town to forget the possibility of Disguiser.

[Cut the Rope]

Tell me, are you certain that town has a Doctor?

The only one's that know of there being a disguiser right now are the Warmongers.

*Gets her sass on* Oh honey, the only thing I'm sure of is that I'm town, TapATalk was town, Candy Crush Saga is town, and Vine is scum. A doctor ain't known til they make themselves known. *snaps fingers*

About Kik

Kik is leveraging Vine's scumslip of their being a Disguiser.

[Cut the Rope]

there* Stupid misspelling

[Instagram]

Oooooo... do tell, I didn't notice them.

Here are Cut the Ropes attempts to distance himself from Vine.

Spoiler : Vine :

OMG... stop talking...right now...

Just....no....That's beyond fucked up to have peacefuls claim right now...Just dear lord stop.

I'm going to assume this is your first game of mafia. I hope it is. Below are two reasons but not the only reasons that exclude a mass vanilla townie claim.

1) Assuming all players claim honestly - If all the vanilla townies claim then this leaves the scum to pick off the power roles one by one with night kills. Or if serial killer is alive potentially more than one by one.

All scum+serial killer has to do is paint a mislynch on a player that is truly a peaceful and then the serial killer gets two kills the following night which makes towns job even harder.

2) Assuming the power roles/scum lie and claim peaceful - Nothing is gained and why do it in the first place.


It's like on regular games with power set up roles. NEVER EVER mass claim early. It gives scum a great way to plan to victory.

There's so much just plain wrong with that post I agree with Fall Down but still gave some explanation for the benefit of the doubt.

Vine - If this truly is your first game we can talk later on it. *sigh*

Vine, I think this sounds like someone on another forum I know of would do. Are you trying to meta copy? I really want an explanation for this but you may be new. When I first played I did some really stupid stuff so I want to give you a chance.

Notice how the peace seekers are easier to hit ...And yes the doomsday killer can still hide. You are relying on people being honest.

@Clash of Clans - I'll look for one. I was trying to avoid changing the account as much as possible.

-vote Vine

You ignored this post and are seemingly copying meta of a player on a different forum...This all feels very fake to me. Depending on the response I may move my vote but I want some explanations.

Wow... I'm pretty sure your questions indicate three things
1) That Vine is definitely faking being a newbie. You know the meaning of copying meta by asking what meta and the other items follow that.
2) That for some unknown reason Vine is only being defensive about my vote. For some reason Clash of Clans vote didn't cause Vine to be defensive.
{I am not including Fruit Ninja because there have been no posts by Vine since that timeframe}
3) That my reasoning is clear and you're digging for more information as to why. I would have expected at least a denial or you're nuts here from an experienced player or a what the hell is meta and copying it from a true newbie.

These reactions (along with the reactions of players following) cause me to believe a few things as a result:
1) At worst, Clash of Clans and yourself could be aligned Warmongers. At the least, there is some reason that you aren't defensive of their lynch vote and are of mine that really should be prodded more.
2) Quizup is buddying Vine although I don't know why. Either Quizup is from this other forum and believes Vine to be someone they aren't which would explain the weirdest about saying post 85 cinches their towniness. Post 85 IMO is a very good scum argument because Vine is picking and choosing which posts to respond to.

Furthermore in Fall Down's post that Quizup says excludes a the possibility of a Warmonger, mentions a specific possibility for a "Mafian" which I'm assuming is a warmonger. This seems very wrong to me.

3) Fall Down either knows something about the gender of Vine or picked up on the meta argument I made and believes Vine is me or is having a belief that Vine is female. I'm the only player who has openly said I'm female. TapATalk talked about waving his dick around so that presumably makes him male. Other than that I'm using gender neutral until each person says their respective gender.

Because of this I'm thinking that Vine/Clash/Quizup need some examination this evening to see what the hell is going on between these three. I like Fall Down as town because of how they are poking other players and how their responses have been written so far. But the gender mentioning to me is important.

And Vine please, start playing the game without the use of this gambit. At worst, you're copying mine from Dark Lord Potter and it's really, really annoying when it is copied like this. I still lend credence to this, because of a lack of a denial. At best, this is just some random weird gambit you came up with either on your own or with scum buddies. Based on this and the other posts that followed I am leaving my vote where it is. If you are town please give us an explanation so this can sort itself out.

To all, again we are NOT attempting to get everyone to announce what role they are or what production they are working on. It's way too early for that sort of claim. After the prior discussions in the thread, it should hopefully be painfully clear as to why.

And for those of you who haven't posted anything of substance please come on and start discussions. I really hate lurkers. Only 14/20 players have posted so far and not all of those have been substance worthy and are just hi and are not responding afterwards. I have to be out this evening with friends and would really like to have everyone posting in the thread before that point.

@Kik,
I don't think the hosts have responded to the questions posed yet. And yes, as I've stated numerous times, it's my opinion a mass claim of any sort (production or role) is not in the best interests of town and therefore I won't be participating in them.

Vine...I'm done seriously. I'm not being mean I've given every chance to explain yourself gently while explaining flaws in the posts and your defense is an attack the attacker of calling me a "meanie" while claiming new when it is clearly not the case for reasons presented by multiple players. I have to go get ready for some stuff this evening but good luck with that.

In your defense your post below with the analysis does seem well thought out and I wish I had more time to compare this with my notes to see what does and doesn't align with what I have.

So if you are new and this is just really weird play, kudos for that well thought out bit. But again I should reiterate we should not say what we are going toward or not going toward. You are going to have a line blank in that sheet.

Okay ya'll warning this may be a too long didn't read post. I tried shortening this but this is the best I could do.

About my top three scumspects in no particular order:

Clash of Clans

On the count of three (1....2...3) who is surprised that Clash of Clans changed their vote to be on the popular vote lynch of Fruit Ninja without adding any additional reasons? Not me. Baaaaaaaaa you sheep baaaaaaaaaaa. What's even weirder is that they admitted to the sheep simply because a couple of their town reads are on it.

Even Clash's post about why only my vote was defended is horrible. They said there are only three votes on vine in their post. This was factual at the time. Then why did Vine only defend the second and why did Clash buddy? And why did Vine not defend about Fruit Ninja's? The most likely answer to me is that Clash is a scum partner of Vine's and that Fruit Ninja was chosen to be the lynch so the vote was already weakened.

And I am not answering the question on what a peaceful should do because as I've already said discussing/planning out who does what here IMO is stupid.

With all do respect to your idea, I think I absolutely should have the exact forum. I was counter claiming Vine and needed to demonstrate strength behind it. Based on your response, I think you believe my counter claim as well. If people go there and wish to find my meta in thousands of posts without a userid to back it up, they seriously have way too much time on their hands. The fact you said for me not to further more lends credence to the idea that you and Vine are buddies, and your first vote wasn't serious.

Vine
Enough with the hypothesis and ideas and plans.
Your latest plan assumes that every single townie lives and that the SK kills a mafia and mafia decides not to kill and that no other role kills or stops production or impacts in any way.
Another reason the plan sucks is that it goes against your desired goal of making sure the win con is met. If everyone followed and the townies at full production on it died, then scum could max out production on one of the wonders and be the top contributor since you have a 5/1 mix on most every hypothesis.
It's also very damaging for the group to come up with a consensus plan of any kind at this stage of the game. As I and numerous people have said but you continue to push hypothesis. This is ridiculous.

Your own arguments look more like your goal is to create chaos rather than post a valid theory on what to do. Quizup even asked you to stop posting about mechanics and do something helpful and you said like....day 2 which isn't even a solid guarantee. (More on this later)

Based on your insistent desire to sow chaos my vote remains. Saying what another player said occurred and then calling it "your plan" leaves a very sore taste in my mouth after asking for your explanation and you refuse.

Quizup

I am even more convinced you are scum after the recent night events.

Almost every post I have seen from you has done some kind of chaos sowing/brimming in the game.

In 163 Quizup votes for Fruit Ninja and then 17 posts later gives a prod for lynching Fruit Ninja instead of contributions with a significant amount of the day left.

Posting a read wall without prompting and then tries to use it as the holy grail to continue discussions.

Most any town player I've played with at least increases suspicion if they are scum read by someone day one and they are town. I posted you as one of my top scumspects and you think I'm town? This leads me to three options here in order of likelihood: 1) The list is fake and that you posted it to try to make it look like you are scum hunting. 2) The list is fake and you wanted to use it as a tool to generate chaos/discussion. 3) The list is truthful you have a weird, rare meta.

Why did you not pressure Vine or say trolling or something when Vine said they'd give you a reason they weren't scum day 2? After that you just drop it? WTF Quizup.

Post 281 has a huge scum slip in it.


The most damning scum slip is in the last sentence. The game started off in the Day. No night actions could have taken place. The only person I know is town is me. The rest can change or be confirmed based on evidence.

The second slip assumes two non-town kills per night, which implies the mafia will kill every night. As pointed out previously in the thread, the scum have to deal with the happiness mechanic so this may not always be the case. The doomsday killer must deal with it as well. When guns and other role shenanigans get into play, assuming 2 kills a night is rather crazy. Hell the scum could have a role that kills as well with a special ability, but this looks like a huge slip that this role did not get chosen.

About Third Party
I'm not really able to get a good feel for who the serial killer might be but for now I think the Researcher is Fruit Ninja.

About the Fruit Ninja lynch
I'm really not seeing what is here that is more damning than what is above. Especially since two of my top scumspects helped to steam roll this. Can someone help me to understand why Fruit Ninja should be lynched today?

The first best argument was the 19 which is really more of a researcher tell IMO than a serial killer/scum. The researchers wincon is that one of the two teams wins at the start so having fewer and fewer players like this points to more of a researcher tell. As town we'd want to keep the researcher around as long as possible because they can help our win con in the start of the game.

From what I've seen the second best "argument" is "self-awareness" of which I have seen little to none. Some of that was posted by my top scumspect so I trust it about as far as I can throw it, which means my vote doesn't go on Fruit Ninja.

About hypothesis
Seriously people, just stop with the plans and/or what someone should be doing with production already. We don't know enough to determine what will be helpful so let's not fuck ourselves over before the first night.

Also Vine -- as a counter to that, why is Candy Crush Saga not Conf Town? I think you may need to reanalyze who you have as town and who you have as scum, assuming you are town. A lot of what you are saying is not making sense.

VINE OMG! WTF?

Did I not just say that my scum radar would go up on someone who suggested plans like this goes up on my scum radar? SERIOUSLY...I have explained why these plans are bad with logic and math formulas and a few other people have and you still continue this. Right now please focus on scumhunting. Yes I openly admit I am trying to shut down suggested mass plans but again...This is NOT cool. Trying to manipulate the production into what you want or giving massive information to scum is a fucking horrible idea....PERIOD.

Please explain to me how the hell this is contributing. You need to scumhunt.

Quizup -- And I'm just putting out the information to the best of my ability. I accept that you aren't feeling it, but out of the people out there he is acting the most scummy. Instagram and Fruit Ninja haven't done much to sway me yet either, but Clash's opening is utter shit. Vine is also moving up in scumminess after not listening to town NUMEROUS times.

Kik -- Who the hell is WWF?
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post449775 << First time reads were questioned
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post449778 << Second time reads were questioned
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post449780 << Third time reads were questioned
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post449781 << Fourth time reads were questioned

So no one used the words bullshit but there were definitely a lot of questions/doubts over the reads.

But being lured doesn't mean anything about whether or not they attacked TapATalk. Based on the last will they visited, but for Vine your suggestion to be plausible that Vine could have been the one would mean either predisposition to know that TapATalk lured which I don't believe is possible in the mechanics or just pure luck.

Quizup That townread just isn't working for me. I've already explained how a Vine/Clash tandem team is quite possible with that vote that you claim is townie. Right now to me the argument that Clash needs a hell of a lot more than that if I'm going to believe any of it. The main posts you have on Clash as town read I already refuted in day one as to why I like Clash as a scum read. I trust that you believe Clash is town but the more you just insist the worse this looks.

Sorry about that. Yeah it's obvious now. But either way, the trust level I have for anything Vine says or does is practically useless right now. So that was a facepalm. I'm monitoring about 2-3 things at the same time as reading so I should probably slow down a bit.

I think there's 4 doubting the reads. We can agree to disagree but if at least 2 other posts before yours question the reads it's been pretty clear that the reads Vine had are either crappy if truthful or bullshit.

I will definitely give this some thought Kik. I appreciate you re-explaining.

Right now I really want two votes. One for vine and one for Clash. Since programmatically I can't do that I'm keeping my vote on Clash but I really, really like a Vine/Clash team. The fake vote and none defense of it while arguing against the pressure vote that I had is a point for Vine scum/Clash team.

Vine's proposal has a claim that the Disguiser will finish the school tonight. Has anyone suggested or proposed that there is a disguiser? This definitely assumes facts not in evidence. I have hypothesized certain scum roles based on the actions of the town, but as far as I know no one has definitive proof of any scum role except scum.

Then there's Clash's rebuttal. He doesn't point out that it is another attempt at getting peacefuls to reveal which is what mafia and SK both want so that way more deaths occur. It's more what he is reubutting and how than a rebuttal. And the fact that they continue to discuss plans adds to my radar as well.

It looks very much like the serial killer killed TapATalk and a Vine pull.
And further more it looks like Clash is attempting to bus their partner and set it up in that manner as a reaction to the heat between the two.

I have to step away and I don't know if I'll be back tonight but my thoughts are Vine/Clash are both scum if I can't post further tonight.

-vote Vine

Temple Run
The case for Vine is three fold to me why they are confirmed scum, either mafia or SK.
1) The mafia and the Serial killer hit the same person. This strongly implies, since Vine got lured to TapATalk, that Vine is the player that did a kill order on TapATalk.
2) In their suggestions they said the Disguiser is almost done building the school. No had even suggested a Disguiser existed before that point, so IMO this is a scumslip.
3) If they are the serial killer, the attempt to draw out peacefuls early is way too obvious. That and the other person who claimed Peaceful is still alive (Instagram) makes it very unlikely that Vine is the serial killer but is very likely mafia scum.

2048
Good for stopping feeding the very likely scum. Although I am disappointed that since you could be back in 3 hours there's not more activity or a poke or a prod or something for you to check back in the am. Scum wins when town quits posting, so if you are town like I think you are, then come out to play some more.

Clash of Clans Response to: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post449867
No I don't want a response of your thought by thought. It'd be more bullshit.
The peaceful revealings was in what Vine suggested and that you did not notice or counter same with the scumslip of Disguiser. It's like you are trying to look like you are stopping a bad plan as much as possible without pointing out the most obvious dangerous flaws. Like trying to build town cred without damaging scum too much. This usually occurs right before a bus.
Sure you're more than welcome to talk to me about why that type of planning is useful post game, but in this case with these mechanics it is one of the most damaging things I can think of. As I said earlier, when there is less mafia and ability to counter then it might make sense. It's like a mass claim. It has to be timed correctly. Right now is a horrible time. It's a very bad idea.
And it seems like a prep to bus your partner. The fact you are getting defensive instead of sticking to your guns and saying "I believe this, fuck off" is another tell. Furthermore, your vote on Angry Birds is more than likely another random vote to try to get discussion going. For the two days and almost 500 posts you don't have any other better suspects. Bullshit. This looks like you felt pressured by me saying it was a bus.

So far the only thing half way valid about those posts is potential confirmation bias. Confirmation bias doesn't make it wrong though. And again there's a lot of evidence here. The arguments written as to who is scum and why you are not, need to be written to convince other people to follow you. Not a "I'm right, you're right" devolving. I'm putting my ideas and logic out on display and if people follow them they do. I'm pretty confident in town's ability to think for themselves and do the right thing.

All
For everyone here, we really need to make sure to get a lynch in today. Vine is probably one of the clearest safest lynches there is for reasons stated. Since the days are extremely short, we need to absolutely have a lynch today. For those of you on Clash of Clans or considering Clash of Clans scum I'm asking you to come over to Vine. While I like them both equally as scum, Vine has more votes and more mechanics driving this. I understand that the lack of player activity is really hurting us right now, so as town we need to adjust for that. For those of you actively posting and not voting Vine, it is my clear expectation that I want reasons why you are not voting for a player that is almost mechanics confirmed to be mafia or the serial killer, refuses to post decent reads, and trolls the thread constantly. Yes I understand Fruit Ninja wasn't lynched yesterday, probably due to player inactivity, but day 1 lynches are almost always town in every game. Once we lynch the more likely scum, then we can come back and re-evaluate Fruit Ninja. Let's come together and do the right thing for town.

Instagram

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post449875
You said in that post you said you had no doubt the Sheriff is at 0 happiness. Based on how you said you'd play it now they'd have to be at one happiness. Which one is it?

I find it highly unlikely that there is a doctor but I'm open to reasons why I'm wrong. Show me convince me.
Same with the response to Temple Run. If something's obvious then keep trying to explain it. Eventually it will sink in if it is.

2048

Why is your vote not on Vine?

Temple Run

According to TapATalk's last will, Vine's own admission of being lured, and the description of Cultural (pasted below for reference)

Cultural
You are immune to the detriments of Unhappiness. At night, you may visit a player to display a painting, forcing them to stay at home if they visited you AND visit another player to discuss music tours in your country, forcing them to visit you. The person you lured will gain 1 Happiness and the person you repelled will lose 1 Happiness, regardless of whether or not the ability was successful. 3 usages.

Vine's FORCED to visit TapATalk. So if Vine submitted the night kill it is very likely that it got redirected to TapATalk. Otherwise you're asking to believe that both the mafia and the serial killer targeted the same player when no one has had a concrete reason.

I'm referring to Vine with the genderless pronouns. I don't know if Vine is a male or a female. Using they is easier than he/she and their easier than his/hers. More specifically this post here: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post449844

Vine
Vine your word is about as useful as a knife in a gunfight. And yes a Clash of Clans lynch is very viable. Even more so when you are defending Clash of Clans. And yes anyone who tries to organize town into building a wonder/production plan/role claim right now needs to be prodded as to why the fuck they are doing a stupid decision. You can be angry all you want but I'm not going to let you deceive town. And warmongers are not monopolizing this thread. There's been discussion and back and forth and suggestions and people trying to understand the game. If warmongers are monopolizing this thread right now I'd be very surprised.

Assuming you're town which I'm 99% confident you're not, you should be wanting to help out town by explaining your reads or clarifying them. I noticed your vote is on me but you haven't given a decent reason as to why I'm scum. :/

Vine your last will again -- has been proven useless. Clarify it to help us.
The sentence about mechanics is probably the most logical thing you've said all game. Mechanics is a great way to scumhunt and why you are scum.
And furthermore, scum is hesitant to suggest plans that will help town but they are full and ready to suggest plans that will help scum, which is what you are doing. We've been over this.

And Vine yes scum will absolutely try to identify the wonders that are harmful to make sure they get built at the least damaging time. It's the mitigate damage effect. Further more it enables scum to get some of those bonuses, they want with the least amount of effort possible.

Then why are you being silent when the mechanics point you out as scum? You are an example of betraying your own argument.

And on the Clash of Clans thing I'd consider me to be a 1/2 vote on you and 1/2 vote on Clash. I just can't do that programmatically.

Words With Friends

I think there is limited feedback yes. But that may just be because of how little information I have. The more that goes on the more information. Day one there was no information, Day 2 there is some but sparsely populated. In relation to all the hijinks that can go on, I'm amazed more information hasn't come up yet.

And about the Clash thing Words, I've stated if I had a second vote it'd be on Clash in a heartbeat. But I wonder why Vine is not defending themselves with the same vigor? I think it's because they know they are busted.

Vine
Of all the insane shit. *rolls eyes* I'm pretty sure unless something changes I am done talking to the troll after this post, unless something significant happens. I will build a big sign of don't feed the trolls.

I was suspicious of you being scum or a scum like role from day one. When one player (I forget who off the top of my head) was confused on mechanics I suspected some tomfoolery but when that got cleared up I realized you were the scum you are. Pure and simple.

And if you do turn up peaceful then this play is some of the most ridiculous play from a townie I have seen. You should be clarifying your reads or doing something to help town come to your conclusions. If you were lynched right this second, the only thing to go off of is already debunked.

All

I have to go something came up and I need to get some more sleep beforehand, but I'm hoping to finish my NK analysis late this evening to have it to share with everyone.

As promised the night kill analysis:

Spoiler : Night Kill Analysis :

We know that only two attempted kills occurred tonight.

This means it is very unlikely that scum have a Detainer.

For reasons discussed, Vine is very likely either the Serial Killer or mafia scum. In brevity, because the mafia and SK killed the same person it is likely the person who did the kill order was forced into attacking TapATalk. And who ended up being forced to visit TapATalk, Vine.

But what about TapATalk in general? Why would the other faction target them? Let's start with the most obvious faction that probably hit him the serial killer.
The serial killer gains a distinct advantage almost every time they kill. The ideal kill for them is either a power role or mafia scum. The reason being is because this leaves more peacefuls to mislynch during the day. So we need to find what from TapATalk made it very obvious that they were a power role.

1) The intro, while very vulgar, and had some numerical errors, was very pro town. This type of mechanics discussing helps town more than it hurts it.
2) His post about not talking about not confirming if building a wonder is something that makes a fuck ton of sense.
3) His reaction to Vine's suggestion of all peacefuls claiming was immediate,spot on, and concise.

Because of this it was very likely that TapATalk was town. Combining this with some of the other posts TapATalk did, e.g. shitlist, implied a lot of genuine authentic scumhunting. Taking a look at that shitlist, {2048, Fruit Ninja, iFunny and Instagram}. This means a likely scum in those four people or in the those that were inactive post. For the inactives, it doesn't add anything to kill TapATalk. People already posted the lack of activity and so it doesn't make a likely target. Therefore, one of those four is more likely scum.

For reasons stated previously I really think Instagram is the one that needs the examination further OR that my hypothesis of Fruit Ninja being the Serial Killer is correct.

Without a lot of information to go on, being on someone's shit list this early is one of the best indicators of SK we can probably find.

Now assuming Vine is the serial killer and mafia picked to kill TapATalk, it'd need to be demonstrated that TapATalk was likely a power role. That however I'm having trouble finding any evidence for. I'll keep looking but I highly doubt that the mafia would have targeted TapATalk, which lends more credence to the Vine did the NK theory. I can make an argument that TapATalk was town but not that they were a power role as there were better choices of who to kill, e.g. Instagram. There would have to be huge glowing neon signs there. Assuming Vine is a serial killer, this likely means that there was not a doctor/secret service in the setup. Else we'd be forced to believe that mafia and a serial killer would instantly kill TapATalk but a doctor/secret service wouldn't see it? Again, the more the Vine = SK analysis I do the less likely this becomes.
As the nights go on a clearer pattern should emerge and give us the understanding we need to hunt the mafia scum.

Quizup -- The lynch on Vine is one of the smartest things we can do as town. The only reason I've heard not to lynch them is because they have claimed peaceful....Uhm that's a horrible idea otherwise scum claim peaceful and be done with it. In contrast there is mechanically evidence damning the mafia kill (or the serial killer kill) onto TapATalk.

Even if we assume that Vine is just a peaceful you're asking me to believe that 1/4 of the players in the game thought that TapATalk was an obvious power role for Town and that the protective role(s) if any exist did not pick it up. That is just way too much coincidence to be believed. If you think this is an improper lynch, again, you need to give something other than Vine is town. You did the same thing with Clash of Clans. Most players I know if it's a disastrous lynch expand on it. Back up your theories.

And the other theory you just posted on SK. Assuming that Vine is the SK they are still scum and it's a good play. Lynching Vine is the right thing to do here.

Instagram

How many times to I have to fucking say this??? Discussing plans gives scum an advantage and allows them to counter, just fucking stop. Seriously.

1. It contributes, but is not the sole factor. I've had Vine on my scumdar for a while.
2. Yes.
3. Since you're asking if you could prove Vine did not kill TapATalk, would I still vote for them: I would say why the fuck as a good townie would you hold that information back if you had it. If you have the capability to stop a bad lynch from hurting town you should absolutely be doing it to save a life. This causes you to stay high on my scumdar.
4. It depends on what is used to "clear" Vine.

2048

It is TapATalk and Vine confirmed they were lured. TapATalk had no reason to lie in their last will....That's just insane. Listen to yourself. *playfully smacks 2048*

Instagram

You're asking people who think that reading an argument that is a page long is difficult/hard for them but that they will counter a counter plan...This is not likely at all. Listen to what it would take to be successful and shut the fuck up about wonders. Seriously. Until we have enough mafia scum dead this is horrible.

.......This again.

For Vine not to be scum, there would have to be a huge coincidence of things that happened that I have a hard time believing.
1) Mafia thought that TapATalk was the best kill.
2) The SK thought that mafia was the best kill.
3) Any protective roles (should they exist) did not see that TapATalk was the best kill even though it is obvious to every killing scum in the game.
4) That Vine is truly a newbie peaceful that has not listened to reason from multiple players and refuses to update reads to make them accurate. They have posted two last wills and neither has Candy Crush Saga as conf town.

That's just way too much for me to swallow. Vine is conf in my eyes.

All about Fruit Ninja/Vine

The absolute worst thing that a Researcher can do is flip Jester and we lynch him. Otherwise it's just a player manipulator based on the value of X. I don't see why they have to die today when we can confirm if they are the researcher or not. (As much as I trust 2048 I'd like confirmation.) There is very little risk in leaving Fruit Ninja alive to verify their claim. I am not for a Fruit Ninja lynch today. Vine is the better play.

Clash of Clans -- If he turns on us and helps the mafia scum we lynch him then. Right now, it just doesn't make sense. I don't understand the argument being put forth.

Instagram

One that's based on random number generator. Until someone says they were protected by a doctor or claims it, I won't believe there is a doctor. Same with Sheriff. The soft claims of peaceful are sooooooo accurate already (sarcasm).

Quizup

Again...why is Clash town? *gets annoyed*

......Words...Really? In what scenario would a townie refuse to provide anything useful after prodding by a lot of users in the game??! I have tried to give Vine the benefit of the doubt a lot because if they are town, they were new but this is fucking ridiculous. If we do not lynch Vine today I will be seriously screaming from the roof tops one of the biggest WTF TOWNS in existence. It doesn't get much clearer than this.

Instagram

Thank God. Now you are starting to think long term about it. Now if you could never talk about wonders again we'd in even better shape

Snapchat

Fruit Ninja won't play to have his win-con be harder. It just doesn't make sense as a good play. I think we can keep him around for today and see what happens. If demonstrated that he tried to flip wincon we lynch him tomorrow. For him to be jester: He needs ta night for X to be greater than 3 or two nights with the same value with 2048 confirming they got a lure X = 1 last night, assuming 2048 can be trusted. I doubt Fruit Ninja would play anti-win con.

Amen to that. Ideally sooner. How many hours is 5 am from now Candy Crush? I ask because I don't know if you are using game time or not.

Vine stop finishing. Top contributor on any project is not confirmed town or scum unless via mod. By saying that it creates WIFOM of if they are or are not scum.

2048 -- working on it but I wish I didn't stop stupid theories. I also have to build it from scratch.

By stopping these stupid theories time is fucking wasted and it scares newbie players from joining We need as many active players as possible.

JUST STOP! ......This plan would out these roles to scum OMG.

Vine the way you are posting if you are newbie town I am not going to be sorry for your lynch at all. If you are town you need to stop this bullshit right now.

Damn being busy ATM or that sign would have significant progress.

Oh I entirely agree with you 2048 that Clash is probably scum. But really I gotta vote on Vine because mathematically they are more scum. If Vine turns out to be scum as I'm pretty sure they will, then Clash becomes an obv target for scum because of the fake vote and Vine only defending mine.

I haven't really looked through vine yet to see if it's reciprocated, I'll do that now.

[2048]

Here are Cut the Ropes attempts to distance himself from Vine.


I haven't really looked through vine yet to see if it's reciprocated, I'll do that now.

Wow..... that makes me realize how easily CtR has been getting angry. A lot more than I've been noticing.

[Instagram]

Tell me, are you certain that town has a Doctor?

The only one's that know of there being a disguiser right now are the Warmongers.

Of course I can't guarantee that there is a doctor, but seriously does nobody have any concept of balance? How would you balance this game without a doctor or a filibuster?

[Cut the Rope]

#1) HERSELF!!!! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS?? I AM A WOMAN!

#2) I have been pushing this goddamn wagon for the past few pages and I take responsibility for my actions. So distancing is bullshit. Since you can't bother to get my gender right how can I trust what you are saying?

And yes I'm fucking angry when town derps this badly. If you take defeat from the jaws of victory I will be pissed to no end!

[2048]

#1) HERSELF!!!! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS?? I AM A WOMAN!

#2) I have been pushing this goddamn wagon for the past few pages and I take responsibility for my actions. So distancing is bullshit. Since you can't bother to get my gender right how can I trust what you are saying?

And yes I'm fucking angry when town derps this badly. If you take defeat from the jaws of victory I will be pissed to no end!

I am laughing so hard right now.....

[Instagram]

Here are the posts that reciprocate the effect, but TBH most of these appear to be provoked by Cut the Rope.

Spoiler : Cut The Rope :

*frowns*

But why? Could you please, like... explain?

*stunned*

Cut the Rope voted me for, like... unclear reasons.

copying meta: what meta?
of a player: who?
on a different forum: which forum?
feels very fake: I mean, like... how?

Not clever reasons to vote someone, I'm sure.

Hi! I'm think, like... I'm new! Cut the Rope is a meanie.

*concentrates*


Bonus recommended for: Day revealing roles (Chief, Speaker, Marshall)
Scums interested: Actor, Disguiser, Veteran


Bonus recommended for: Anyone
Scums interested: All


Bonus recommended for: Investigative roles (Sheriff, Investigator, Coroner, Lookout, Detective, Filibuster, Jailor)
Scums interested: All


Bonus recommended for: Anyone
Scums interested: Actor, Disguiser


Bonus recommended for: Anyone
Scums interested: All


Bonus recommended for: Investigative and protective roles
Scums interested: Almost all


Bonus recommended for: Anyone who received manual vests.

I don't care if you created this game, or have a teal name. I'm going to make sure all nice buildings belong to town.

*serious*

You, like... never offered any better plans.


I'm still, like... waiting for answers from the host. If it is random, town will have 8 production (able to complete Wonders in 2 days, 8+8=16) versus scum with 6 production (complete in >2 days, 6+8+2=16). And I think I only recommended which Wonders are good for which town roles. I never asked anyone to build any?


How so? You are just afraid that town monopolizes all the building, I think...


And here you are discouraging town from making full use of the mechanics. Hmph!


It's called asking for commitments.

-vote Cut the Rope

Surely you understand that ALL TOWNS should benefit from +2 production for building vests later.
Organized construction will prevent wastage of town production. Surely you know that!

*lectures*

Scums:
Cut the Rope
Fruit Ninja
2048

You are, like... trying to delay town from getting vests, and hoping that town waste production. Scum motivated, I think...

I don't know how I can defend myself, so...

Last will:

-vote Cut the Rope

*suspicious*

Spoiler : Reads :

Not enough info
Strong town
Leaning town
Leaning scum
Strong scum

Players	Posts	Impression	Voted	Role
Flappy Bird	1	Made it known that he will only troll
iFunny	1	Busy and requested for town organization	Fruit Ninja
Kik	14	Lacked sample size, buddied Fall Down
Bloons TD	2	Made it known that he doesn't care
Instagram	16	Prevented misinformation	Fruit Ninja
SnapChat	7	Lacked sample size	Fruit Ninja
Angry Birds	1	Anti-day 1 discussion		Warmonger
QuizUp	40	Promoting discussion but ignored mechanics altogether	Fruit Ninja	Doomsday killer
Clash of Clans	13	A busy person who tried to organize town	Fruit Ninja
2048	52	Almost all posts are neutral-leaning fluff without content		Warmonger
4pics1word	3	Supported town organization	Fruit Ninja
Candy Crush Saga	1	Voiced support for town organization
Cut The Rope	27	Against organizing town action and full of discredits	Fruit Ninja	Warmonger
Fruit Ninja	39	Promoting apathy in day chat		Warmonger
Temple Run	9	Giving opinions, pro-town organization
Words with Friends	0	Didn't post
Tapatalk	24	Organized town and prevented misinformation	Fruit Ninja
Vine	44	Me!	Fruit Ninja
Piano Tiles	3	Made it known that he does not want to contribute
Fall Down	24	Participated in discussion

2048
A total of 52 posts, almost all which are fluff without content.
Did not vote Fruit Ninja.
Tried to discourage concerted town production by providing vague alternatives (#269-277)

Fruit Ninja
Promoting apathy in day chat.
39 posts of low value.

Angry Birds
Tried to discourage discussion with his single post.

Cut The Rope
Extremely negative against anyone organizing town actions
Trying to discredit good ideas
Tried to expose players who acted dumb, on day 1
Unnecessarily unvoted Fruit Ninja with strange reasoning, only to revote a few post later, after iFunny sheeped (#322-325).

QuizUp
Spent 40 posts promoting discussion with minimal input from himself.
Not afraid at dying at night, from his hyper pro-town act.
The Doomsday Killer!

Criteria for scum:
1) Trying to prevent town from organizing production
2) Role and identity fishing
3) Promoting the idea that day 1 is troll day

Spoiler : Actions :

N1: 6 production to ET

Peacefuls don't need to spend productions on buildings to recover happiness and charges. So, Peacefuls can devote all their productions to IPs and Wonders. 6 production to ET as discussed.

Spoiler : Explanation :

1. Scums don't like newbies who claimed their town role, because everyone will believe the newbie, as if the newbie had a day-reveal role.
2. Proposing good but subpar ideas stimulate discussion and separates the real town from the fakes. Real town will correct your mistakes.

Voluntary and unprovoked newbie roleclaims are as good as day-revealing. Thus, I tried to bait newbie Peacefuls into claiming. They are as good as confirmed towns. Instagram and I don't count.

Best way to scumhunt is through mechanics and organization of town actions.

Discrediting more like!

Cut the Rope called me newbie, troll, stupid, etc. so that when I flip town, my last will will not be seriously read by town.

[Instagram]

So, I think today was productive lynch priority is obvious. Vine->Cut The Rope.

[2048]

So, I think today was productive lynch priority is obvious. Vine->Cut The Rope.

I think I am on her lynch list as well.

[Vine]

So, I think today was productive lynch priority is obvious. Vine->Cut The Rope.

Yes! Lynch Cut the Rope tomorrow!

You forgot to add that earlier in day 2, Cut the Rope is trying to distract town from the fact that I was lured in Tapatalk. He must be a Warmonger who thought that I'm the Doomsday Killer.

[Instagram]

Yes! Lynch Cut the Rope tomorrow!

You forgot to add that earlier in day 2, Cut the Rope is trying to distract town from the fact that I was lured in Tapatalk. He must be a Warmonger who thought that I'm the Doomsday Killer.

Thanks for adding more to the distancing argument. I appreciate it.

[Instagram]

I think I am on her lynch list as well.

I'm sorry 2048, I'm having trouble interpreting this thought. I'd appreciate it if you rephrased it.

[2048]

Yes! Lynch Cut the Rope tomorrow!

You forgot to add that earlier in day 2, Cut the Rope is trying to distract town from the fact that I was lured in Tapatalk. He must be a Warmonger who thought that I'm the Doomsday Killer.

Yeah..... you realize that being lured by Tapatalk and Tapaltalk dieing makes you a high priority suspect. I just don't understand why you don't see that yourself.

You are the one distracting town and making extreme protests all the time. You are too dangerous to even remain within day chat, let alone allow you go back to night.

[2048]

I'm sorry 2048, I'm having trouble interpreting this thought. I'd appreciate it if you rephrased it.

I was listed as strong scum in her previous posts.

I assume it's because I'm usually against her plans.

[Cut the Rope]

Okay are you like...crazy? This is so many posts and you don't even explain how. It's like you went through the RNG of posts between me and Vine and had a copy paste montage XD.

First of all I am saving the town from town derp one of the few townies who actually gives a shit to post complex arguments, had my arguments stand up to insane bullshit and it's obvious because you play copy paste montage. Actually you know justify your read of me as scum...seriously. Because an actual argument will end up being so obviously bullshit that it is putting tissue paper in a saw mill. However if anyone actually believes this bullshit fest then tomorrow if I'm lynched I will give you a novel of a read wall. Feel free to discuss it but it will become very clear that I'm so town I have I love town metaphorically tattoo'd on my ass.

That being said if you believe I'm scummy post a goddamn argument. Not a cut and paste fest.

AND I AM A WOMAN! STOP USING HE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

[Instagram]

I was listed as strong scum in her previous posts.

I assume it's because I'm usually against her plans.

Well that's the way I interpreted it but how does that relate to the quote? Maybe I miscommunicated my idea?

[2048]

Okay are you like...crazy? This is so many posts and you don't even explain how. It's like you went through the RNG of posts between me and Vine and had a copy paste montage XD.

First of all I am saving the town from town derp one of the few townies who actually gives a shit to post complex arguments, had my arguments stand up to insane bullshit and it's obvious because you play copy paste montage. Actually you know justify your read of me as scum...seriously. Because an actual argument will end up being so obviously bullshit that it is putting tissue paper in a saw mill. However if anyone actually believes this bullshit fest then tomorrow if I'm lynched I will give you a novel of a read wall. Feel free to discuss it but it will become very clear that I'm so town I have I love town metaphorically tattoo'd on my ass.

That being said if you believe I'm scummy post a goddamn argument. Not a cut and paste fest.

AND I AM A WOMAN! STOP USING HE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

CtR dear, walk away and get a glass of water...

[Instagram]

Okay are you like...crazy? This is so many posts and you don't even explain how. It's like you went through the RNG of posts between me and Vine and had a copy paste montage XD.

You're right that's pretty much exactly what I did.

I don't explain that's not my style. I thought I had already expressed that I believe ever player here is capable of intelligent thought. I was merely attempting to help them save time in the analysis by removing posts that were not relevant to the subject.

[Cut the Rope]

CtR dear, walk away and get a glass of water...

Motion passes I'm afk for a little bit.

[2048]

Well that's the way I interpreted it but how does that relate to the quote? Maybe I miscommunicated my idea?

Vine as been targeting the talkative players that are not going with her plans.

You said:

So, I think today was productive lynch priority is obvious. Vine->Cut The Rope.

I was stating I would probably be next in line after CtR

[Instagram]

Vine as been targeting the talkative players that are not going with her plans.

You said:



I was stating I would probably be next in line after CtR

Nah, I have you pretty town sided tbh. That's why I trust your judgment.