The circlejerk issue

[oops_ur_dead]

Gonna do one of two things:

1. Create an IRC channel with forum integration. As in, there'll be a tab or chatbox or whatever that lets you join the IRC channel and chat. Maybe I'll make it nice with forum accounts integration and game bots or whatever but that depends on how lazy I am. It'll be moderated separately from the forums, so that if you get banned from one you don't get banned from the other.

2. Recreate circlejerk with the new rule that on the first serious offense (such as personal attacks) your access to circlejerk is permanently revoked. Making accounts to get around that will result in all your accounts being permanently banned.

Vote and provide feedback. Maybe Ill listen to feedback, maybe not.

[fred]

I prefer the IRC option. Allows for a more relaxed environment and a cleaner forums, while letting the people vent where they want :P

[Raptorblaze]

Honestly I'm fine with either of those.

[Cryptonic]

I like the first option. The second option will just be the same black/white rules where a moderator can make a decision to infract/delete based on current mood.

[Frog]

You can't just abolish a form of speech
The power of circle jerk has a longer reach
It extends pasts the bounds of sub-forums and code
It's present whenever we want to vent a vile shit-load
You can pretend to offer solutions but its not going to help
If it were me, I'd make CJ 3, but you're not going to listen... Oh welp

[NoctiZ]

You can't just abolish a form of speech
The power of circle jerk has a longer reach
It extends pasts the bounds of sub-forums and code
It's present whenever we want to vent a vile shit-load
You can pretend to offer solutions but its not going to help
If it were me, I'd make CJ 3, but you're not going to listen... Oh welp

If anything it would be CJ 2.2, not 3...

It's never 3..

[ika]

The first option sounds best, a new cj will pretty much cause the same stuff again.

[Orpz]

What issues other than personal attacks constitute a "serious offence"?

[louiswill]

There are less than 3 people actually posting PA attack thread intentionally,

such as Brunno.

Option Two is telling everyone not to vote on option 2.

Oops, I'm dead.

Was anyone seriously offended in the past 5 days by Bruno, Orpz or hypersniper?

Or ME?

Which thread which quote and why?

[louiswill]

I suggest to make a new sub forum whose all posts will not show up on the right-side in home page "Forum New Post".

Then promot orps, brunno and hypersniper in charge of that forum.

Call that Forum Rap-O-B-H!

Done.

Peep need a public toilet then make one! and let them clean it themselves!

whats the big deal anyway.

[Hypersniper]

I suggest to make a new sub forum whose all posts will not show up on the right-side in home page "Forum New Post".

Then promot orps, brunno and hypersniper in charge of that forum.

Call that Forum Rap-O-B-H!

Done.

Peep need a public toilet then make one! and let them clean it themselves!

whats the big deal anyway.

I APPROVE

we need a place to rap

so we dont get the infract

for puttin r raps up on an Imac

[Hypersniper]

Frog,mateo and orpz 7ust vote option 3

[oops_ur_dead]

I APPROVE

we need a place to rap

so we dont get the infract

for puttin r raps up on an Imac

Frog,mateo and orpz 7ust vote option 3

Im not doing that, don't waste your votes

[Hypersniper]

what r u not doin

[Hypersniper]

There are less than 3 people actually posting PA attack thread intentionally,

such as Brunno.

Option Two is telling everyone not to vote on option 2.

Oops, I'm dead.

Was anyone seriously offended in the past 5 days by Bruno, Orpz or hypersniper?

Or ME?

Which thread which quote and why?

have you been offended

[Helz]

We already have a chat box but this sounds pimp as hell.

Option 1.

If I had to guess I would bet a portion of the CJ community would still fight for a place to put their raps and people will still take issue with the content of them in GD..

[louiswill]

We already have a chat box but this sounds pimp as hell.

Option 1.

If I had to guess I would bet a portion of the CJ community would still fight for a place to put their raps and people will still take issue with the content of them in GD..

That's why the swing votes like you and me will actually effect the result.

We the neutral holds majority.

Hard core CJ rap community is literally only 3 people, without Bruno who is absent. (I bet necroplant will be in the CJ group lol.)

I do not know the staff community but it is obviously out numbering rap CJ people.

But we the people who do not quite care each side will turn out the be the decision on this one.

Except that,

we do not really have an option 3, and option 2 is just not selectable unless you are totally pro-staff.

So I guess most of people will just vote option 1 if they actually bother to vote.

I'm not saying it is manipulated votes, but the outcome is quite obvious by first glance.


I learn all this from mafia games.

Predict the swingers will just give you the out come.

Swing voters rule, but I'm a log of odd ginger.

Maybe I should just become a politician someday.

[fred]

I was a swing voter, didn't really care what happened. I chose option 1.

[fred]

Also i'd like to state this:

Option 1: You can have Ash/Necroplant/Archangel and whatever in there from the start.

[Mateo]

That's why the swing votes like you and me will actually effect the result.

We the neutral holds majority.

Hard core CJ rap community is literally only 3 people, without Bruno who is absent. (I bet necroplant will be in the CJ group lol.)

I do not know the staff community but it is obviously out numbering rap CJ people.

But we the people who do not quite care each side will turn out the be the decision on this one.

Except that,

we do not really have an option 3, and option 2 is just not selectable unless you are totally pro-staff.

So I guess most of people will just vote option 1 if they actually bother to vote.

I'm not saying it is manipulated votes, but the outcome is quite obvious by first glance.


I learn all this from mafia games.

Predict the swingers will just give you the out come.

Swing voters rule, but I'm a log of odd ginger.

Maybe I should just become a politician someday.

we roll 5 deep

and staff doesnt oppose ideas, they implement them then complain secretly until its undone

[louiswill]

we roll 5 deep

and staff doesnt oppose ideas, they implement them then complain secretly until its undone

They didn't openly stress the issue but their policy literately chip the CJ PA away.

I'm not convinced that they don't oppose the idea.

This voting board is not even necessary with options like this.

But a voting board is better than nothing, so I'm stick my vote on 3, just to show some diversity.

[fred]

Actually we openly oppose ideas that involve: The ability for all users of the forum to run around and do whatever the hell they want. (For obvious reasons we protect community members' basic rights)

[Helz]

Also i'd like to state this:

Option 1: You can have Ash/Necroplant/Archangel and whatever in there from the start.

I support starting option 1 with no restricted players at all to begin with.

I would also throw it out there to have a possible sticky post with a link to a (whatever forum) as an unofficial CJ. This means it would not have any need to be moderated. Members of our community that would like to chat unrestricted could do so and members that want nothing to do with it could just have nothing to do with it. I honestly don't know why this has not been created a long time ago. There is already selective sub chats anyways. It would be bad form to deny this idea.

[Bunny]

Actually we openly oppose ideas that involve: The ability for all users of the forum to run around and do whatever the hell they want. (For obvious reasons we protect community members' basic rights)

i dno seems like thats only applicable to staff members

[Mateo]

Actually we openly oppose ideas that involve: The ability for all users of the forum to run around and do whatever the hell they want. (For obvious reasons we protect community members' basic rights)

funny, i dont see many reports coming in about regular users ziggying and kicking players. in fact, didnt a mod post user's facebook picture to the forums?

[ika]

funny, i dont see many reports coming in about regular users ziggying and kicking players. in fact, didnt a mod post user's facebook picture to the forums?

Admins can only do the ziggying.

mods can do kicking but i have never seen mods play anymore, also mod reports go up to higher ups to be dealt with.

that was ahs who is now banned if i remember correctly

[Mateo]

the point was mods are the ones running around like children. and oops did it too.

[Damus_Graves]

Admins can only do the ziggying.

mods can do kicking but i have never seen mods play anymore, also mod reports go up to higher ups to be dealt with.

that was ahs who is now banned if i remember correctly

that isn't correct. Admins can kick as well. But that is aside from the issue considering the point of this thread is to determine what new feature to implement.

I personally am for option 1 because of its isolation.

[Helz]

Admins can only do the ziggying.

mods can do kicking but i have never seen mods play anymore, also mod reports go up to higher ups to be dealt with.

that was ahs who is now banned if i remember correctly

I rarely see any staff on the game honestly.

i dno seems like thats only applicable to staff members

funny, i dont see many reports coming in about regular users ziggying and kicking players. in fact, didnt a mod post user's facebook picture to the forums?

From this and quite a few other posts I find one of the larger issues at hand is the feeling of bi-est behavior. Sometimes I would say its justified but I think it is more often for some users to push boundaries.

Its like there is a group that wants to be a part of the community but not show any form of social conformity or respect for boundaries.
That there is a second group establishing boundaries and trying to stay unbi-est in enforcing these boundaries.

If this is not someday addressed it will mean the end of the community in the long run. I am a huge fan of spelling out the elephant in the room and addressing issues when they come up. As such here is how I see things playing out.

Our current situation doesn't work for quite a few people. This compromise offered by Oyd is a measure to fix the situation. But the underlying problem still exists. Either chat option will bring the issue right back. That some players will never accept any form of moderation. This will drag out until players that cause trouble are banned and gone or the community falls apart.


This is not my first time spelling this out and honestly I am a big fan of just skipping the foreplay using that ban hammer. I have no faith in a compromise being successful because one side of this issue is completely unwilling to compromise. I may be a bit of an asshole but I try very hard to own my mistakes and admit when I am wrong. A bit holding yourselves accountable could go a very long way and I would say that applys to both sides of the issue.

[Mateo]

are you trying to say 'biased'?

[Helz]

are you trying to say 'biased'?

Yeah. My browser tells me biased is not a word and have no faith in my spelling to begin with.

Have anything to say about that post? You are without a doubt one of the biggest problems in this situation in my opinion. I was hoping you could actually say something to take a step toward a resolution and not just your next move to raise hell.

[Mateo]

ill bite. you say unbiased; unbiased would be applying all rules evenly. currently the situation is pay4privelege, and if you say anything about you get silenced, hated, negrepped, PAed, infracted, and banned.

[Hypersniper]

I support starting option 1 with no restricted players at all to begin with.

I would also throw it out there to have a possible sticky post with a link to a (whatever forum) as an unofficial CJ. This means it would not have any need to be moderated. Members of our community that would like to chat unrestricted could do so and members that want nothing to do with it could just have nothing to do with it. I honestly don't know why this has not been created a long time ago. There is already selective sub chats anyways. It would be bad form to deny this idea.

i like forumy idea

[Helz]

ill bite. you say unbiased; unbiased would be applying all rules evenly. currently the situation is pay4privelege, and if you say anything about you get silenced, hated, negrepped, PAed, infracted, and banned.

Then I would be offended. I would take huge issue in it and bring it up. I would do it in a different way though. I would clearly say 'These things happened and this is why they are wrong' and I would lobby for a change in a constructive way.
I am not saying you have not been wronged in one way or another and I am not saying the staff is blameless. I am saying there are two sides to this that need to find a compromise for any situation to work out.

[AppleyNO]

Good Afternoon,

First of all, the outrage over CJ 2.1 being taken away is completely justified. We(the members) were told that we could insult others, without being a 100% asshole about it. Besides Bruno's thread at the start of this new rule, nothing violated it. If they did, we(the Moderators) should have handled it. Instead, we(the Moderators) decided to take it away. Take the entire sub-forum away instead of revoking the rule change.

Second of all, the incorrect way to complain about CJ 2.1 being taken away is spamming in General Discussion. Its rules haven't been changed, and they will still be enforced. General Discussion isn't about making raps to protest not having a CJ, its to prove that we are mature enough to have a CJ.

I voted option one, but having the pre-rule change CJ would be cool too.

I rarely see any staff on the game honestly.

I want to talk about this for a second.

Staff has, for the most part, had school. We should be playing again soon.

I have had my mod powers taken from me voluntarily a while ago.

And on the subject of Mod Abuse in-game, where is it? We have every mod abuse report on record, and not only have we not had one since September, abusive Moderators are dealt with.

I think that's it on my part.

[fred]

I've been playing Mafia daily, even though I havn't been on the forums. So.. moot point.

[Cryptonic]

Good Afternoon,

First of all, the outrage over CJ 2.1 being taken away is completely justified. We(the members) were told that we could insult others, without being a 100% asshole about it. Besides Bruno's thread at the start of this new rule, nothing violated it. If they did, we(the Moderators) should have handled it. Instead, we(the Moderators) decided to take it away. Take the entire sub-forum away instead of revoking the rule change.

Second of all, the incorrect way to complain about CJ 2.1 being taken away is spamming in General Discussion. Its rules haven't been changed, and they will still be enforced. General Discussion isn't about making raps to protest not having a CJ, its to prove that we are mature enough to have a CJ.

I voted option one, but having the pre-rule change CJ would be cool too.


I want to talk about this for a second.

Staff has, for the most part, had school. We should be playing again soon.

I have had my mod powers taken from me voluntarily a while ago.

And on the subject of Mod Abuse in-game, where is it? We have every mod abuse report on record, and not only have we not had one since September, abusive Moderators are dealt with.

I think that's it on my part.

Lol i laughed @ the logic of:

>Moderators haven't been on cause of school.
>Hasn't been a mod abuse report since September.

When does school start? September. It's hard to abuse powers when you're too busy to play.

[AppleyNO]

Lol i laughed @ the logic of:

>Moderators haven't been on cause of school.
>Hasn't been a mod abuse report since September.

When does school start? September. It's hard to abuse powers when you're too busy to play.

LOL

I didn't think of that, it's a moot point xD

[Helz]

And on the subject of Mod Abuse in-game, where is it? We have every mod abuse report on record, and not only have we not had one since September, abusive Moderators are dealt with.

I think this was just digging up old issues that have been put to rest a long time ago. If its not there should be a reason with it.

[Cryptonic]

LOL

I didn't think of that, it's a moot point xD

Lolol yea. I'm not saying there WOULD be any reports if you all were playing, but it pretty much guarentees none lol.

[Hypersniper]

i think that you should lighten up some gen dic rules to make it more cj like

[AppleyNO]

i think that you should lighten up some gen dic rules to make it more cj like

What kind of rules should we lighten up on? We don't want it to become CJ, because that was taken away. Keep that in mind. I do like GD.

[Hypersniper]

mainly the swearing rule
way to strict raise it to 7 or 8 or at least 5

[Helz]

What kind of rules should we lighten up on? We don't want it to become CJ, because that was taken away. Keep that in mind. I do like GD.

I do not like this idea. This is what I think would need to be changed to make the CJ environment acceptable..

No Excessive Language
No Necroing Threads
Do Not Insult Other Members (In a direct and personal way) to (Indirectly)
Do Not post about Mod Abuse in General Discussion

Every one of those has a purpose. And at heart this community is from SC2. It would make this community look worse than it already does to other blizzard communities if we started encouraging this kind of behavior in a thread that was not specifically made for such nonsense.

[Mateo]

all those rules can be covered by serious discussion. its stupid to have gd on one side then sd as a subforum, just using it for long philosophical debates.

should be
serious discussion: strict rule enforcement. keep it classy
gd: everything else

[louiswill]

Alright, fundamental questions:

1. What is intolerable on this forum, CJ wise?

2. What is basic rights for users?

3. What of those basic rights requires ban people and such to protect them from?
(I know one at least, protecting them from Hackers/abusive staffs.)


I agree with ApplyNO.

CJ 2.1 is taken away justifiably, because the reasons are never explained but "we killed CJ."

No rules were broken.

No users breaks rules and no administration breaks the rules,

All people do is just watching it die except few who didn't see it coming.

Legally justified by the rule of by standers.

Or, do we even need to justify an administrative decision which did nothing good yet nothing wrong?

This plot probably begins earlier than we know.

A rule change to a gonna-be-dead forum is always acceptable.

We will never know what actually happened.

The issue will only keep happening again.

Brunno post 3-4 rappy posts almost everyday before any rule changes.

I hardly say those posts are more "qualified" just because it received few replies.



How many of us are capable of separating reasons and excuses?

Just be honest and don't live in lies, though we are living in mafias.

[Frog]

Just be honest and don't live in lies, though we are living in mafias.

Petition to make louiswill leader of the new CJ initiative.

[Poriomania]

If you implement something like Xylbot you can play chat mafia over IRC, too.

Or do it manually.

[Raptorblaze]

CJ's removal question:
Rules were broken, it's actually a certain staff member's fault for misinforming you about the rule change though. That said, I still don't regret removing it because frankly all it's used for is either joke threads where everyone just talks a lot of shit about everyone else with the understanding it isn't serious, or bullying threads meant to shame and hate on single individuals primarily for no reason other than to satisfy the sadistic tendencies of two or three people. The first kind I don't really have an issue with, the second kind pisses me off to see.

Basic rights of users:
There are none. You agreed to this when you created your account, there was no way to avoid agreeing to it. Get over it. We aren't complete nazi dicks all the time because we do want you to stick around and to enjoy yourselves, but at some point you have to realize that the rules are in place to protect users from one another, not to satisfy anyone's power trip. We can't just let everyone do and say whatever they want and expect people not to get hurt by it, it has never worked that way in human history. My motto with moderation as always is "Maximize fun" and while your raps and bully threads and personal attacks may be fun for you they are often offensive if not worse to many others.

What actually happened:
Some rule alterations were proposed to me, I responded with "I'll approve it, IF you make these changes to your alterations." Then the alterations without my changes were posted as new official rules. CJ immediately broke the new rules I'd approved repeatedly. You saw that no infractions went out when CJ was deleted right? That's because I'm not gonna infract you for rules you weren't properly informed about. The decision to delete CJ was entirely mine without consulting the rest of staff because of how quickly you made it clear that you WILL go as far as the rules as you understand them will allow even if it's in terrible taste or judgement.

What happened after:
Multiple people decided that since CJ was gone, GD was now CJ and acted accordingly. Infractions DID go out for this because they knowingly broke rules in GD. Bruno is only tempbanned (and not via infraction so there will be no restriction period) not perma'd as some people thought.

Claims of abusive moderation:
The primary issue here is people going about responding to it wrong.
If you think a mod is abusive you DO NOT..

• Make flame threads
• Bitch to other users and/or moderators
• Purposely break rules to spite them

What you DO is send me a pm and cite exactly what and why you think they are abusing their position. I will take corrective measures up to and including removal of powers, firing, and bans if needed so long as your claims are legitimate. That said, if you got infracted for something that is a violation of the rules you can't claim abuse, so don't try.

We done ranting about a situation that wasn't any of the people you're blaming's fault? I'd prefer to decide how to set up an area you can use for bad rapping going forward.

[louiswill]

Raptor is always being more truthful than all other staffs else.

Praise Raptor!

I will just post some contradictions caused by ambiguities:

CJ's removal question:
Rules were broken

First of all, the outrage over CJ 2.1 being taken away is completely justified. We(the members) were told that we could insult others, without being a 100% asshole about it. Besides Bruno's thread at the start of this new rule, nothing violated it. If they did, we(the Moderators) should have handled it. Instead, we(the Moderators) decided to take it away. Take the entire sub-forum away instead of revoking the rule change.

Second of all, the incorrect way to complain about CJ 2.1 being taken away is spamming in General Discussion. Its rules haven't been changed, and they will still be enforced. General Discussion isn't about making raps to protest not having a CJ, its to prove that we are mature enough to have a CJ.

Basic rights of users:
There are none.

Actually we openly oppose ideas that involve: The ability for all users of the forum to run around and do whatever the hell they want. (For obvious reasons we protect community members' basic rights)

What actually happened:
Some rule alterations were proposed to me, I responded with "I'll approve it, IF you make these changes to your alterations." Then the alterations without my changes were posted as new official rules. CJ immediately broke the new rules I'd approved repeatedly. You saw that no infractions went out when CJ was deleted right? That's because I'm not gonna infract you for rules you weren't properly informed about.

(Important, that is why you should love raptor. He is always efficient and lenient.)

Claims of abusive moderation:
What you DO is send me a pm and cite exactly what and why you think they are abusing their position. I will take corrective measures up to and including removal of powers, firing, and bans if needed so long as your claims are legitimate.

(Keep that in mind guys, we do have a judge to solve things legally.)



--------------------------------

If raptor acts in justice then the whole thing will be justified.

Otherwise, everything is handled in high council anyway.

We always have full motivation to hate,

except we shouldn't do it too frequently.

I think it is a good ending for 2013?