The fast start glitch and ramming through griefer saves

[Renegade]

Players such as "Law" have found a new way to ram their griefer troll saves through without giving the lobby any time to repick.

trollsave.png

If someone selects chaos mode, then switches to their save, they can start the game in half the time.

It is my opinion that this method to push through shitty saves that are likely to be repicked should be a punishable offense. Furthermore, in protest of this method, I will simply leave any game who's host uses it.

[Tauntshaman]

how about we punish every mafia player for wasting time playing mafia and sentence them to 4 weeks of tree planting to save the earth

[lawson]

yeah I agree. This "Law" guy is a real jerk. I mean, who makes saves? WHO? How dare he. He should be banned for life.

[Exeter350]

yeah I agree. This "Law" guy is a real jerk. I mean, who makes saves? WHO? How dare he. He should be banned for life.

Way to deflect from the fact that you abuse the quick start exploit.

It's OK to admit you're an asshole, you know. Pretending like you're not just makes you more of a loser.

[lawson]

This is the first time I've heard of "quick start" as an exploit. A lot of people do it. It just gets the game started faster.

How about people with 40k+ points griefing lobbies by spamming "repick repick repick" all the time with their 4x repick capabilties? Is that not an abuse of power?

Some people think they're the only person that plays this game, or their opinion is the only one that matters. They don't realize they are the very loud minority with overblown repick privileges. Renegade is a repick abuser. It only takes two repick abusers to hijack lobbies. These players tend to have a lot of points and the save will usually land on them when repicked.

People have been arguing over saves since the creation of this game. It doesn't matter WHAT your save is, someone will complain. Always. It could be a cookie cutter 933 and you'll hear "Not 8331?!??! SHIT SAVE!"

These repick abusers need to be addressed. They hijack lobbies and stifle creativity. The game is getting less and less popular. How will new people ever get to enjoy the game if they get their saves repicked by one of these bullies?

I think we should remove the additional repick votes rewarded with points. It really skews the perception that creative saves are unwanted, because even WITH these trolls trying to hijack my lobbies, they still don't succeed most of the time. That should tell you how many people actually dislike the saves. The loud minority.

Attachment 28936

[Renegade]

The solution to repick spam is to only allow repicks up to 3 times. After the third repick, the game defaults to standard and starts.

People have been arguing over saves since the creation of this game. It doesn't matter WHAT your save is, someone will complain. Always. It could be a cookie cutter 933 and you'll hear "Not 8331?!??! SHIT SAVE!"

False equivalence. People complaining about the difference between 933 and 8331 is minor. Looking at your latest creations and thinking this isn't even worth playing is a much bigger difference.

You use "cookie cutter" to undercut "standard" saves like 8331 and 933, but the fact is a lot more thought was put into the balance of those than your so called "creative" saves.

How will new people ever get to enjoy the game if they get their saves repicked by one of these bullies?

New people shouldn't be hosting saves.

because even WITH these trolls trying to hijack my lobbies, they still don't succeed most of the time. That should tell you how many people actually dislike the saves.

You actually do not give people the time to repick. So this assertion is invalid. Let's extend the time to repick to a full 30 seconds and see if any of your saves survive a simple majority of players. You use the quick start exploit to ram through your saves because you know they aren't popular.

[Renegade]

Lawson, and others who host dubious saves, refuse to even have a conversation about their saves and their balance. Talk about a hyper extreme minority, there is no attempt to even rationalize why they want these saves other than "oh look! shiny bauble DF let's throw two in for massive confusion and day shooting fun!".

Instant gratification types.

[lawson]

The save you posted in the original post is an 82221. Every save I have ever played was thoroughly thought through with balance in mind. I watched the replay of that double mason game and you even recognized that you were supposed to be the gov. But then, you didn't act like the gov. You just raged the whole game and contributed nothing towards the win condition.

What is balance to you? Balance to me is a game where all factions have an equal chance at victory. All my saves tend to end up in close games, that is most definitely the intent. Sometimes it takes a few games to get the balance right, like with any save.

You tell me I refuse to have a conversation about my saves? I will explain the idea behind every single one. You just like to shout obscenities at people. You're really good at seeming composed on these forums, but in game you're not the person you're trying to portray yourself as here.

The Double Flowers don't become Enforcer. It's a Maf vs Triad save. I put double mason to replace the gov because they can act as a gov but why would DF shoot a mason? If both masons confirmed themselves during day town would have two govs, would both DFs shoot both masons? They might need to save that for a better target. If you notice, there's no NK, the 2x DF are supposed to be the NK. Mafia has GF and Consig, because Consig becomes GF and that makes them a bit stronger. Also, the Mafia will have the benefit of information via the Consig, because they don't win ties with Triad and it might be useful for them to be able to scout out Triad. All Neutral Evils are not available in that save, including from the Any Random, because I figured without a traditional gov, Town might have a hard time versus the two factions.

I'd say that one game we played with that save, it was pretty close. As the GF, if I had shot the Det instead of the Mason, it was possible to create enough plausible deniability to where I could fool the town into thinking I was the doc and not 13.

Balance to me are close games where every faction has a chance to win. You can't judge balance just by looking at the roles list. You have to see how the game plays out.

I don't create interesting saves to troll, I create them to make new metas and provide new experiences. I play like one or two games a day, and if I DO get repicked I don't quit the lobby, I play whatever save gets loaded up. I'm not forcing anything on anyone, I'm breathing fresh air into a stale community.

[WrathCyber]

Has anyone ever tried making a 111111111111111 save before? That would be fun.

[lawson]

This guy is actually griefing the community. He's literally harassing me, personally, even when I say nothing to instigate it. Look at how he behaves in game:

ren2.png

It's funny how he makes statements like "Oo shiny bauble DF" but when I explain myself he has nothing to say. Well the image above shows you who he truly is. I spoke nothing to him in lobby or that game, but he flames waKwaK's save and then somehow my name is included in his flaming?

This is straight up harassment.

Also, this is wAkWaK's "shitty save" that got flamed all game. This is what I meant when I said "It doesn't matter WHAT your save is, someone will complain. Always."

wak.png

This guy calls us all griefers, but he's the only person actually griefing. I'm honestly getting kind of sick of this toxic behavior, and people like this should definitely not have 4x repick capabilities.

[Renegade]

Do you really think it is at all fun to play on a triad team of two DF? You become effectively useless after firing. They are simply shiny trickets for a simpleton to throw 2 in their save for all the chaos. No thought given to their balance or how it feels to get entrapped on that team as one of them. Reminds me of the any random folk that like to throw in a single triad in a mafia save.

Wakwak's save is hidden shit save. Looks normal on the surface but he doesn't mention that he sets the jester chance so high that it is likely 3 of them will spawn. I am merely informing people of that fact. I'll give you credit at least you are more explicit with your "creativity".

I will continue to bring awareness of your troll saves and encourage people to repick you Law.

[lawson]

Shit I WANT to be on the team with two DF. That's like saying Judge is effectively useless after he courts. You still have a vote, you can still lie, you can still lynch your way to victory. You also get a second shot at day 7. You have an opposing team (Mafia) that you know is evil that you can divert attention to in order to keep the lynches off of you. There are two benigns there that ALSO provide more of a gray area, AND an Any.

The whole premise is that you don't use your shot to help the Mafia, you might need to use it to SHOOT the Mafia. That's what makes it fun, it's a three faction dynamic. The triad in that save get TWO day shots. I've seen Arsonists win with fewer kills than that.

I know I'm a simpleton, but let me explain wAkWaK's save to you. There may be a high Jester chance, but there's also a Marshall with 2 lynches with 3 lynches each. I see what he's going for. Also probably why he allows for 2 NK, because Marsh is so strong.

However ALL of this is detracting from the real issue here, how toxic you are to the community. All you do is shit on everyone, and that's not OK.

[Drizzt]

Renegade, I say this with sincerity and no malice. You need to start hosting with saves you approve and have looked over. Everyone else, people with points get extra -repicks because, in theory, a person with a bunch of points should have experience enough to spot a terrible save and divert it. Personally, I only repick if they are AFK or trolling. Ren probably diverts more bad saves by having more -repicks than the average person. Does he abuse the -repicks? Idk, that's between him, the programmer, and God. We can't see that mechanic in replays. Is it a perfect system? No, but it is the system we have. He is very passionate about saves having a minimum standard of quality, and that's why he needs to start hosting.

[Renegade]

I will continue to bring awareness to poorly designed saves like yours, Etiennes, wakwaks, and others.

If that is toxic then I am proud to be toxic.

[Renegade]

trollsave2.PNG

Renegade, why are you such a villain???

This is a perfectly acceptable save from Supernoob of the notorious "CHOOO" clan. Not surprised, considering their history and present. Shocker!

You have too much power to repick Renegade! And even when you did repick, this still got jammed through!

[Stealthbomber16]

Not defending this exploit but if you want every game to be 9-3-3 or 8-4-2-1 you should be playing Town of Salem.

[lawson]

You know, you're a real piece of work, Renegade. Supernoob RARELY hosts his own saves and usually passes, but when he does I guess that makes him subject to your flame?

Not only do you make fun of his save, but you also make fun of his clan and insult his character? You're trying to make him out to be a troll when I have literally never seen him troll, all because of his save?

ren3.png

Not only does he offer to pass the save, he passes it to YOU, and now you're on the forums lambasting him? What a douche.

[rumox]

Carl always wins

[Renegade]

You know, you're a real piece of work, Renegade. Supernoob RARELY hosts his own saves and usually passes, but when he does I guess that makes him subject to your flame?

Not only do you make fun of his save, but you also make fun of his clan and insult his character? You're trying to make him out to be a troll when I have literally never seen him troll, all because of his save?

ren3.png

Not only does he offer to pass the save, he passes it to YOU, and now you're on the forums lambasting him? What a douche.

Do you know the history of the CHOOO clan? I bet you don't.

[lawson]

I know what CHOO is, do you not see the date my account was created? It was started by SCVMurderer, he used to play as THE LYNCH TRAIN, he'd prefer neutral roles and hijack games starting random lynch trains on people. It was at a time when I was preferring town exclusively, and was quite the 933 tryhard. I used to -prefer jailor and just fuckin wreck him every game because I knew what he was up to. You know the saying, you either quit young or see yourself play long enough to become the villain.

Anyways, here's some feedback on one of my "shit saves". This is the stuff I live for right here. I was "Chargin Mah Lazer" because when am I NOT DH right? lol.

whatev.jpg

P.S. Town won. In this save the Mayors keep their votes when they're culted. I provide a dynamic in this save that no other saves have, and that's EXACTLY what I go for. I want people to have fun.

[Renegade]

What type of illegal manipulation did you do to get 2 mayors? I know you like to monkey around with the saves to force things that normally should not be allowed.

[Renegade]

I wonder what the staff thinks about adding a save with multiple mayors. This is something that is not possible via the editor, so I wonder what hack @lawson used to do it.

AddMayor.PNG

I wonder if @Auwt , @MrMostache , or any other staff have anything to say about Lawson using illegal saves.

[lawson]

That's right. Gloss over the fact that everyone had a great time. Let's face it, this ENTIRE thread of yours isn't about the saves, it's about winning an argument, and when you see people having fun in a "shit save" it kinda shits on your argument that I'm a griefer ramming "troll saves" to "troll the community".

So I ask you, what's more toxic to the community? Unique saves that offer a fun, new experience or toxic players that think they run the show cussing out everyone for minor things?

[Renegade]

Your save isn't unique. Your save is illegal.