M-FM XXVIII Heaven Descends Upon Thee Gamethread

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

The whole chat is being clogged with the two of you arguing, it's pathetic.

Well part of it is him just being dumb. He's even said the wrong prayer now.

Although I admit I should've made single posts in places where i've made triple.

[M-FM Ethel McAllister]

I am a citizen. It says I have no night action. It doesn't say 'you can pray at night' anywhere on my role card.

Wow. I'll try to hold it in.

[M-FM Roy Larkins]

Well, just to humor you, protection.

But why don't you want a confirmed innocent around? Explain that.

[M-FM William Reed]

I'm going to sleep

I can't handle this anymore.

[M-FM Ethel McAllister]

M-FM Edward O'Connor has replaced after I found him as scum, suspicious?

Currently all of the other trains are on odd places.

-vote M-FM Edward O'Connor

Please see my other post where I have explained reads on numerous people.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Well, just to humor you, protection.

But why don't you want a confirmed innocent around? Explain that.

What do you mean by confirmed innocent who is this in reference to?
And how is it humoring me to follow the plan?

[M-FM Clarence Shephard]

This is like Batman all over again.

Like.

Totally.

Posty.

N

SHit.

Lel

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

I have a question for everyone, how incompetent do you believe a player can be about mechanics before develing into scum-terriority of acting stupid to throw off people's ideas?

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

It seems to be roy larking is not intent on folowwing hte plan for it being the best strategy, almost guaranteed to win us the game in most cases.
But rather to satisfy what I asked from him and even then he tried to say wrong information repeatedly for instance how could one read the wrong prayer off of that table when it is colour coded by name?

[M-FM Roy Larkins]

What do I mean by confirmed innocent?

This

Blessing: For 3 day/night cycles, your actions will not be considered sinful

That's the same as confirmed innocent, so as scum, you can't allow it. Correct me if I am wrong.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

-vote M-FM Roy Larkins

[M-FM Roy Larkins]

I asked you to correct me if I am wrong, not vote me.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

What do I mean by confirmed innocent?

This

Blessing: For 3 day/night cycles, your actions will not be considered sinful

That's the same as confirmed innocent, so as scum, you can't allow it. Correct me if I am wrong.

God doesn't answer that prayer under any circumstances.
The whole point of the prayers is so each person has a set route of the order of prayers he prays that differentiates himself from everyone in the game.
The table exists for a reason which I explained after Mr.Anderson asked about it.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

I asked you to correct me if I am wrong, not vote me.

I just mashed post, Didn't read your thing.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

God doesn't answer that prayer under any circumstances.
The whole point of the prayers is so each person has a set route of the order of prayers he prays that differentiates himself from everyone in the game.
The table exists for a reason which I explained after Mr.Anderson asked about it.

If any player fails to deliver on what he should be doing, he will be revealed at teh beginning of d3 on that list.

[M-FM Roy Larkins]

Where does it say she doesn't?

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Where does it say she doesn't?

Because it's detrimental to the plan and a waste of a charge while folowwing it.
I said this as well.
She can do it. It won't really affect knowing who prays what, but it will cause us not to have information about conversions and certain night actions done.
It is important she doesn't so we know when roleblocks or conversions occur as opposed to people just not praying.
however the prayer order is irrelevant to her answering that as any night action will be listed as none.

[M-FM Roy Larkins]

It doesn't say anywhere in the setup that she can't. So now you say she can't because you won't allow it? Why won't you allow her to make someone a confirmed innocent?

[M-FM Mary Hughes]

-vote M-FM Roy Larkins

If he cannot pray it is likely he is scum sided by the odds

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Put it this way.

Priority A of Plan(REquired) = Town follows prayer order
Priority B of Plan(Highly Suggested To Gain More Information about scum's roles and who they are targeting)= No blessing,strength prayers are ever answered.

[M-FM Roy Larkins]

You realize you're calling a confirmed inno a waste?

That's it, I am done playing with idiots.

@mod ask to replace out

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

It doesn't say anywhere in the setup that she can't. So now you say she can't because you won't allow it? Why won't you allow her to make someone a confirmed innocent?

BECAUSE CONFIRMED INNOCENTS ONLY HELP THE SCUM.

All town are praying therefore they have no reason to need it.
A confirmed innocent atheist or roleblocker can create serious problems by us having no clue what's going on with certain people(their targets) till they flip.

[M-FM Roy Larkins]

Okay, you're delusional.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

You realize you're calling a confirmed inno a waste?

That's it, I am done playing with idiots.

@mod ask to replace out

give me a scenario where a confirmed innocent is beneficial to town while following a plan where everyone prays forgiveness within 5 nights?

If someone gets controlled and is sinful they can say so and we will know antichrist controlled them. Then when their turn comes around god can answer forgiveness.
God can only disguise once. All players will get feedback if their sinful since they should be praying otherwise and the only way to be sinful is via control or rbed.
In other words we should always have at least few non-sinful townies before God dies for the first disguise(he can only disguise once.)

[M-FM Roy Larkins]

Confirmed innocent only helps the town by lowering the lynchpool of possible scum. At least, in setups I am accustomed to. What are you on?

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Okay, you're delusional.

Lynch this guy; He has clearly tried to disrupt parts of the plan by confirming the wrong prayer.
Saying he can't pray.
Revealing his supposed role(citizen) after we just went over why unnecessary reveals are bad with Shephard.
And now saying doing stuff that while following the plan, no town should ever need is beneficial to town.

If a town gets blessing and controlled. We won't know it since it won't say that a sinful action occured.

[M-FM Roy Larkins]

Okay, you just called my dream role, an Innocent Child, a waste. Shame on you. Bye.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Confirmed innocent only helps the town by lowering the lynchpool of possible scum. At least, in setups I am accustomed to. What are you on?

It is not confirmed innocent, it is the opposite of that.

Scum and controlled people will not have sinned actions.
It's current use is only beneficial to antichrist,atheist, and certain sinner roles where we won't know exactly what action was taken place from it since god won't get a sinner notification from them


all other actions taken by town are already not-sinned.

[M-FM Roy Larkins]

If blessing is not beneficial, then why is it listed in your table at all? Either remove it from your table altogether or allow it.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Okay, you just called my dream role, an Innocent Child, a waste. Shame on you. Bye.

It's not a confirmed town.
Sinning or lack thereof does not confirm a town to investigative roles if thats what you are saying.
It doesn't prevent a mechanic such as the equivalent of what framign would be in this setup.
It actually makes framing work even better.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

If blessing is not beneficial, then why is it listed in your table at all? Either remove it from your table altogether or allow it.

there are 20 people.
For no two people to be in the same group or pray the same prayer twice in a cycle.

There must be 5 prayers.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

there are 20 people.
For no two people to be in the same group or pray the same prayer twice in a cycle.

There must be 5 prayers.

If you don't understand how simple algorithims work that i've explained multiple times. Please just concede.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

You clearly have not read through the plan if you are asking all these questions and are merely going along with it because I said you should.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

There is a difference between asking questions that have not been covered such as Reed(iirc) did.
And then asking questions which are directly covered in the plan repeatedly.

[M-FM Roy Larkins]

No, Innocent Child is a role that gets confirmed as town at the start of the game. Variants allow a triggered confirmation by telling the mod you want to be confirmed via PM. It's different from a cop clear.

[M-FM Bertha Anderson]

I am unfortunately busy most of the day today guys, sorry haven't been here.
Kind of thinking Roy vs Robinson is TvT, but that is just from the approach both players have.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

The plan was brought up in the first few pages and was finished at about the 12th.

You had almost 40hours to state any complaints when I encouraged it.
For you to only ask these questions now is very suspect. The plan has been the main focal point of almost all d1 conversation for better or worse. There is no way you couldn't ahve seen the things surrounding it.

[M-FM Roy Larkins]

I will not concede to someone who won't allow an Innocent Child to activate.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

I am unfortunately busy most of the day today guys, sorry haven't been here.
Kind of thinking Roy vs Robinson is TvT, but that is just from the approach both players have.

I'm assuming that means you ahve read through the whole argument that me and Shephard have made against Roy and Roy agaisnt us?

[M-FM Bertha Anderson]

I'm assuming that means you ahve read through the whole argument that me and Shephard have made against Roy and Roy agaisnt us?

I have read through most of it, and it just reads as stubbornness on both sides. Though I do tend to agree with you more than him.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

I will not concede to someone who won't allow an Innocent Child to activate.

Look at the plan.
Look at the mechanics.
Look at the scum roles and what is considered sinful and not sinful.

Notice how all town should never sin unless controlled.
Now tell me how is answering blessing more beneficial to town than to scum?

also wtf is this innocent child about?
There will always be at least 1 non-sinful town while following htis plan for god to reincarnate into.
If scum for some reason got 3 roleblockers and risked making all town sinful we would know and could ask god to answer all forgiveness for that night.


If anyone else can see waht I'm saying please say so.
Perhaps i'm explaining it in a poor fashion to him or perhaps he is just scum who is trying to point out benefits of the plan as flaws in some weird sense of pseuod-logic.

[M-FM Roy Larkins]

Do I have to spell it out for you?

Here, have a cookie

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

I have read through most of it, and it just reads as stubbornness on both sides. Though I do tend to agree with you more than him.

What makes you read him as town considering his clearly not reading the plan, super-defensiveness of the god-claim, and saying he would pray the wrong thing and not /confirming for the sake of the plan but rather for my unvote?

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Do I have to spell it out for you?

Here, have a cookie

That's not what blessing does. Blessing can go to sinners as well but won't tell us if there are rb's.
A person with blessing isn't town-alligned.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

That's not what blessing does. Blessing can go to sinners as well but won't tell us if there are rb's.
A person with blessing isn't town-alligned.

necessarily town-alligned*

Just as a person who would be sinful if we did not follow this plan, would not necessarily be anti-town alligned.

[M-FM Roy Larkins]

Do you think I would ask for blessing straight off if I were a sinner? According to the power grid, if I am a sinner, I'd have to ask for forgiveness first. I am asking for blessing straight up. Unless there are some shenanigans going on, I am not a sinner.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

While praying it is impossible for a town to sin unless rbed or controlled which would show up as a "none" on the list. However since no blessing were answered we could determine that a roleblock occured.
Its also possible for a blessing to be answered then that person is converted to an atheist and then we don't know if conversions occured with certainty.

Therefore blessing can only be used to help scum while following this plan.

If we were not following this plan then an argument could be made for blessing, yes.
But while following it no town should be commiting sinful actions of their own free will.

Keep in mind that both town and sinners and atheists prior to conversion can all pray for and be granted blessing

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Do you think I would ask for blessing straight off if I were a sinner? According to the power grid, if I am a sinner, I'd have to ask for forgiveness first. I am asking for blessing straight up. Unless there are some shenanigans going on, I am not a sinner.

No sinners start as non-sinful till they commit a night-action.

What you are talking about is treating this as if we were not following the plan as well.

Also all players must follow the table on how they should pray so we can always determine which players are which on the number list that god recieves.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

No sinners start as non-sinful till they commit a night-action.

What you are talking about is treating this as if we were not following the plan as well.

Also all players must follow the table on how they should pray so we can always determine which players are which on the number list that god recieves.

All town players*

Any scum who did not follow the list(by default there are 3 that can't) will be revealed at d3.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

No, you misunderstand the sinner role.


sinners start as non-sinful till they commit a night-action.

What you are talking about is treating this as if we were not following the plan as well.

Also all town players must follow the table on how they should pray so we can always determine which players are which on the number list that god recieves.

to avoid confusion of wording