M-FM XXVIII Heaven Descends Upon Thee Gamethread

[M-FM Bertha Anderson]

Yes actually that's sorta the point.

However some scum may try praying for other scum and this prevents that as well since we would be able to track them not praying right then they flip as scum on god's list then he can find out who they prayed for if this occurs.

Do you think this is a problem or just as a matter of asking for information?

Also lel, atheists and antichrist faction are so dead.

I don't consider it a problem, I was just wondering why you consider the game broken by Day 6 when essentially we can confirm most players by Day 3 in their respective slots. What significance does day 6 have?

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

I don't consider it a problem, I was just wondering why you consider the game broken by Day 6 when essentially we can confirm most players by Day 3 in their respective slots. What significance does day 6 have?

If you are referring to my repeat at n6, then it's necessary to keep doing so we know when someone doesn't pray or prays the wrong thing in their slot.

Did I say d6 earlier when referencing the GG point? I just finished doing the algorithim on paper and on excel, i think i might ofsaid by d5 before.

I hadn't done the algorithm at that point and realized that we could figure out everyone's slots. I originally only though we could figure out scum's slots.

[M-FM Bertha Anderson]

If you are referring to my repeat at n6, then it's necessary to keep doing so we know when someone doesn't pray or prays the wrong thing in their slot.

Did I say d6 earlier when referencing the GG point? I just finished doing the algorithim on paper and on excel, i think i might ofsaid by d5 before.

I hadn't done the algorithm at that point and realized that we could figure out everyone's slots. I originally only though we could figure out scum's slots.

Umm I might be slightly confused on this. Okay, the way it works is you pray and god will see your prayer and your number, but obviously wont know who you are (this is the anonymity of it). Now, if each player follows plan. God can see numbers and prayers and group them together. Now say a scum wanted to lie about them performing an action, they essentially compromise a group with an extra prayer happening.

That already shows that someone in that group is lying. Next night everyone again performs their assigned prayer except the liar again, they will not be outed at that moment because everyone else in their group is confirmed.

Now that is unless they take credit for their teammates prayer, in which they have to take credit for all their prayers in order to keep that charade up, otherwise they will soon be outed. Of course this brings problem of their teammate appearing as scum for not praying in his group. Essentially they will be lynched eventually.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Now everyone please if use \confirm if you are just talking about it without actually confirming it in teal. This is to make it easier to search through the thread at the end of the day.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

If you notice that list has no 2 people praying in the same group till it recycles starting n6, n11, etc.
This ensures that scum cannot mess with it.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

If you notice that list has no 2 people praying in the same group twice till it recycles starting n6, n11, etc.
This ensures that scum cannot mess with it.

fixed

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Mr. Anderson please confirm your prayer again in teal since I have now finished the complete list.

I also request in everyone's first few posts that they confirm their prayer or if they express disagreement that they explain a flaw in the plan.
Failure to do either will be considered as scum as well as if your flaw is addressed and shown why it is wrong or not a flaw and you do not then confirm or express another disagrement.

[M-FM Bertha Anderson]

Mr. Anderson please confirm your prayer again in teal since I have now finished the complete list.

I also request in everyone's first few posts that they confirm their prayer or if they express disagreement that they explain a flaw in the plan.
Failure to do either will be considered as scum as well as if your flaw is addressed and shown why it is wrong or not a flaw and you do not then confirm or express another disagrement.

/Confirm Forgiveness

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

I would also like to reiterate that.
In order for this plan to be guaranteed we must not lynch for the first 2 days.
Please do not pass 51% of votes or get within l-4(4 sinners is largest scum faction) until we reach this point.
Also keep in mind that we start with 7 scum.
It is possible that all 7 would hammer from l-7 in order to force lynches even if it fear that the lynchee is part of another scum faction.


Starting d3, we shall begin lynching confirmed scum.
We are currently guaranteed to win folowing this strategy as far as I can tell.
DO NOT LYNCH.

[M-FM William Reed]

I would also like to reiterate that.
In order for this plan to be guaranteed we must not lynch for the first 2 days.
Please do not pass 51% of votes or get within l-4(4 sinners is largest scum faction) until we reach this point.
Also keep in mind that we start with 7 scum.
It is possible that all 7 would hammer from l-7 in order to force lynches even if it fear that the lynchee is part of another scum faction.


Starting d3, we shall begin lynching confirmed scum.
We are currently guaranteed to win folowing this strategy as far as I can tell.
DO NOT LYNCH.

see thats the part I can't understand. Sinners can pray for forgiveness anyway.how is that not destroying your plan?

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

2/20 players have confirmed

22hours and 10minutes remain to confirm.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

At d2 please start using /2Confirm __
At d3 please start using /3Confirm ___

etc.

[M-FM David Graham]

Hello everyone, I am a replacement. Is there anything I should know as I read up?

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Hello everyone, I am a replacement. Is there anything I should know as I read up?

I have a guaranteed win plan in which everyone prays a certain prayer every night. God determines who are the scum that don't pray or pray improperly from this.

There is a very colourful table above. Look for your name and confirm your prayer like I did a few posts below.

[M-FM David Graham]

I have a guaranteed win plan in which everyone prays a certain prayer every night. God determines who are the scum that don't pray or pray improperly from this.

There is a very colourful table above. Look for your name and confirm your prayer like I did a few posts below.

That doesn't work. God can just be killed is one. I'm semi tired from reading the first few pages but the other thing is that its near impossible to coordinate this no?

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

That doesn't work. God can just be killed is one. I'm semi tired from reading the first few pages but the other thing is that its near impossible to coordinate this no?

It's not even hard to coordinate. I made a table and everyhting.
God HAS to live for town wincon.
He's also partially-immortal.( if shot he disguises as a random non-sinful christian)

Plan still stands.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

It's not even hard to coordinate. I made a table and everyhting.
God HAS to live for town wincon.
He's also partially-immortal.( if shot he disguises as a random non-sinful christian)

Plan still stands.

The only coordination required is that God can assign numbers to players via actions and that the 12 non-god townies pray.

Thats not much to ask for via coordination. It's literally copy your actions from table pm it to host.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Any town who doesn't follow a guaranteed plan is playing pro-scum.

The plan doesn't ask for much and says blatantly what you should always do.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

If scum are all praying then they can't sin and they all have to be sinful at game end for them to win. They have to sin at some point to meet a prequistie of wincon.

God's cover is blown once and we get 3 guaranteed scum. If a scum counterclaims god then either jesus reveals and says and or we get dichotomy and lynch both god ressurects.

Plan Still Stands.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

If scum are all praying then they can't sin and they all have to be sinful at game end for them to win. They have to sin at some point to meet a prequistie of wincon.

God's cover is blown once and we get 3 guaranteed scum. If a scum counterclaims god then either jesus reveals and says and or we get dichotomy and lynch both god ressurects.

Plan Still Stands.

There's a reason why in the setup discussion that this idea was brought up with names instead of numbers on the list god recieves. I have merely came up with this plan to re-add the list of names to the numbers which guarantees town win.

If the sinners do anything they are revealed.
Regardless of if sinners for some reason prayed forever, We would still get 2 scum factions dead and the moment the sinners did anythign but praying they get revealed.
It forces sinners to have no night action or be lynched if we follow your reasoning and guarantees that we kill off 2 scum factions regardless.

[M-FM William Reed]

can not sinful people pray for forgiveness?

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

can not sinful people pray for forgiveness?

Yes host answered this.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post570024

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

If you have no further arguments please confirm your prayer.

[M-FM William Reed]

but Autheists converts new people and they won't be able to pray as well. the fact we know there are Autheists out there won't kill them! they will spread even if we lynch right .

how are we going to kill these scum people without using night actions?

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

but Autheists converts new people and they won't be able to pray as well. the fact we know there are Autheists out there won't kill them! they will spread even if we lynch right .

how are we going to kill these scum people without using night actions?

Easy.
The Senior Atheist can't pray from start. We will know him from the pool of 3 who can't pray from start.
Converted Atheists can't pray, god will notice this on the list since by d3 we will have every name assigned to a number. Atheists can only convert for as long as Senior Atheist is alive also.

[M-FM William Reed]

answer this and I will accept

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

The only way we all get sinned is if we all get roleblocked. Roleblocking is an instant-reveal on sinners part starting d3.

[M-FM William Reed]

no you didn't understand I guess

Atheist converts someone each night.

in day 3 they are 3. in day 4 which as you said the Aheteisted people are confirmed they can be 4. how on earth are we going to stop them if we continue to pray at that point to force sinners pray as well.

it just don't add up to just sit there and pray

pedit : no read the Atheist role pm. they have a factional conversion.

[M-FM William Reed]

Athiest :

You keep any abilities you previously had.
You may be sent for the factional Athiest conversion.
While under the possession of the Antichrist your abilties change as they would if you were your normal role.
You may not pray

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Upon converting a Power Role, no Athiest may convert the following night. - Setup

Best possible thing senior atheist can do is get 2 conversions by d3.
Worst possible is he double hits sinners/antichrist factions.

Odds are he will only be able to convert 1 person which we shall know the identity of via prayer list.


Senior Athiest
You have 1 auto vest
At night if you are alive, the Athiests may send a member to Convert someone. Turning them into an Athiest


Theres an if there clearly.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

In other words if senior atheist is dead then there is no factional conversion that can be done.

That statements is saying that instead of the senior atheist the regular atheist can be sent.
However if the senior atheist is dead, neither can be sent

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Further Questions?

[M-FM William Reed]

Sorry for all the series of questions. I'm just trying to make sure we covered all the aspects before going with a breaking strategy.

what if sinners don't pray and don't let us to find the Atheist?

oh and what if Antichrist force someone to target someone else ?

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Sorry for all the series of questions. I'm just trying to make sure we covered all the aspects before going with a breaking strategy.

what if sinners don't pray and don't let us to find the Atheist?

oh and what if Antichrist force someone to target someone else ?

Sinners don't pray= We find sinners too.

Antichrist=Yes, I'm aware of what the antichrist can do, however he would have to do it to the same person every night for it to have an effect on the list. Aka a controlled person is different on the list than an antichrist person. One can claim that they were controlled since they recieved feedback of being sinful at the beginning of the day if thats what their action did to them. (Perma not praying is differentiated by single not praying).

If sinners don't pray, we still find evils except now we also know the sinners and it just decreases the probability that we hit senior atheist on first few lynches.

Based on my current predictions, The average amount of conversions for the atheist faction is .75 per every 2 nights.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Prediction is based upon the rules that

1 tpr conversion per every 2 nights.
They can hit sinners or antichrist.
They can hit 2 cits in a row(i'm calling shenagins if this happens)

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Questions are fine.

The important part is you ask these now and not toward end of the day.
And if a proponnet of the plan gives satisfiable answers that you follow it.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

God also knows how many people would have sinned and not prayed each night.

By comparing sinning to praying record. God should be able to determine a different between conversion and controlled target as well. I believe.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

11. Athiest Convertion
12. All other night Actions.
13. Prayer


Based upon the OoO

Converted people will lose their ability to pray that night. So any town who are praying and then get converted will show up as none on god's list.

Whereas controlled people will show up as none and will also add a sin to the list.

[M-FM William Reed]

yes that makes that harder as well. if we don't find the S A from all the candidates soon we will loose so fast. becuase we are giving them free night actions.

I'm not sure. But I have a really bad feeling about this.

let me go grab some coffee and I will go with some possible scenarios to see if everything will go as planned

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

yes that makes that harder as well. if we don't find the S A from all the candidates soon we will loose so fast. becuase we are giving them free night actions.

I'm not sure. But I have a really bad feeling about this.

let me go grab some coffee and I will go with some possible scenarios to see if everything will go as planned

Do failed actions such as a failed conversion still count as sins?

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

We could know a conversion occured by comparing not prayed numbers to sin numbers as I said.
This way we can keep track of the amount of atheists.

Also the antichrist controlling is not a sin, but most actions that he can force people to do are sins.

Every Night Action that sinners can do except praying are sins.

If there is an additonal person who doesn't pray as compared to the sins we know a conversion occured under most circumstances I believe.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Senior Atheists need a 51% majority to win. I don't see them ever achieving this following this strategy. Even if they managed to somehow hit citizen converts every night.

It's more likely that the antichrist faction would win before atheists if anything.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Let me ask you a question.

Which is better?

Having tpr use their night action which reduces the number of people god can ressurect into?

Guaranteing that we know a list of all scum at the cost of no tpr using night action which allows god to be able to disguise as any town potentially minus a controlled person?

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

If all scum used night actions we would know all scum starting d2.

so let's say 2 town died and 2 cits were converted.

we would be 9v4v3v2

This is getting extrememely lucky on all scum actions part.
At this point we may as well say this.

Antichrist controlls vigi and kills.
Apostate burns town n2.
2 town converted.
2 town killed.

I mean following that logic we are screwed regardless except now we don't know who any of the scum are and can mislynch.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Keep in mind scum do not know who each other are.

Scum has about a 25% chance if we are going by raw probability of hitting other scum.

[M-FM William Reed]

lets go with scenario A. everyone want to play with their wincon so I assume all scum hit the right town guys who they need.

1. God
2. Jesus
3. Hidden Christian
4. Hidden Christian
5. Hidden Christian
6. Hidden Christian
7. Hidden Christian
8. Hidden Christian
9. Hidden Christian
10. Hidden Christian
11. Hidden Christian
12. Hidden Christian
13. Hidden Christian
14. Prime Sinner
15. Hidden Sinner
16. Hidden Sinner
17. Hidden Sinner
18. Senior Athiest
19. Antichrist
20. Apostate of Satan

the list god gets tomorrow can be:

1. <- you
2. prayed right
3. <dead becuase of the sinners factional kill>
4. none (atheist) Sinful
5. none (Antichrist)
6. none (Role blocked) Sinful
7. prayed right
8. prayed right
9. prayed right
10. prayed right
11. prayed right
12. prayed right
13. prayed right
14. prayed right
15. none (roleblocker)
16. prayed right
17. none (for more confusion)
18. none
19. none
20. none

now in day 2 he will receive something like this :
1. <- you
2. prayed right
3. <dead becuase of the sinners factional kill>
4. none (atheist) Sinful
5. none (atheist) Sinful
6. Forgiveness
7. <dead becuase of the sinners factional kill>
8. none (Role blocked) Sinful
9. none (Antichrist)
10. prayed right
11. prayed right
12. prayed right
13. prayed right
14. prayed right
15. none (roleblocker)
16. prayed right
17. none (for more confusion)
18. none
19. none
20. none

which we need another night I suppose with your plan.

in day 3 the list will be like :

1. <- you
2. prayed right
3. <dead becuase of the sinners factional kill>
4. none (atheist) Sinful
5. none (atheist) Sinful
6. none (atheist) Sinful
7. <dead becuase of the sinners factional kill>
8. Forgiveness
9. <dead becuase of the sinners factional kill>
10. none (Role blocked) Sinful
11. none (Antichrist)
12. prayed right
13. prayed right
14. prayed right
15. none (roleblocker)
16. prayed right
17. none (for more confusion)
18. none
19. none
20. none

ok now we basically are paralyzed in game without knowing who is Atheist and who is Antichrist. that even get worse with satan around becuase of those mark stuff and ritual. scum can get all over the town by day 5/6

if we assume the probability 1 scum hit the other (which won't effect in most scenarios) which is just pure luck for us , still day 6 is end of the town. I'm not sure who are we going to kill these scums in 3 days.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

I currently have approximately 1-3hours to answer questions.

Please ask them now if you are online in order to not have this occur at teh end of the day.

[M-FM William Reed]

you say we withhold lynching and doing any night actions till day 3. in day 3 scum have the majority.

[M-FM Fred Robinson]

Give me a second I'm messing around with some settings on computer and it's hard to have that whole post viewable.