S-FM 175: Not Matrix6

[Toadette]

Honestly, it's not hard to see broken reasoning with this.

ANALYSIS

Toadettes behavior is.... Erratic to say the least. Day 1 she REALLY trys to appear to get a lynch on Mattzed, however no mommentium is gained. Day 2 she is very civil with MattZed.

I think that she was trying to draw attention to herself trying to lynch MattZed (who is her ACTUAL scum buddy). She has gave no explanation on why she had layed off MattZed, and is now focused on Frog.

All in all, I think she is pretty clear scum.

-vote Toadette

I'll vote MattZed if I see evidence too.

That second quote came after I asked deathworlds to lynch MattZed - he sees no evidence of MattZed being scum but I somehow am scum + MattZed since I'm bussing him. This is poor reasoning, which town does a lot. Scum are more careful usually about making stupid claims like this one.

[Toadette]

I see you as the "scum leader" at this point.

Also please note the bolded part, he's got insider information.

I don't think MattZed is entirely scummy anymore.

No deathworlds, you are tunneling. You are really, really, really bad at this game.

[deathworlds]

Honestly, it's not hard to see broken reasoning with this.





That second quote came after I asked deathworlds to lynch MattZed - he sees no evidence of MattZed being scum but I somehow am scum + MattZed since I'm bussing him. This is poor reasoning, which town does a lot. Scum are more careful usually about making stupid claims like this one.

What if you're traitor.

[deathworlds]

No deathworlds, you are tunneling. You are really, really, really bad at this game.

Nah.

[MattZed]

That second quote came after I asked deathworlds to lynch MattZed - he sees no evidence of MattZed being scum but I somehow am scum + MattZed since I'm bussing him. This is poor reasoning, which town does a lot. Scum are more careful usually about making stupid claims like this one.

"I'm going to townread deathworlds for being so shitty at analysis so he'll unvote me."

You are arguing deathworld's argument is so bad that he's town.

[Toadette]

Read the context.

Deathworlds claims that I am scum bussing MattZed scum, but won't vote MattZed

So I say, "How can I be bussing MattZed as scum if MattZed is town" showing the flaw in deathworlds thought process.

This is taken as a scum slip of insider information, which really is a twist of my words.

From MattZed this is unacceptable. From deathworlds, it's due to his tunnel vision.

MattZed is scummy, Deathworlds is bad town.

[MattZed]

No deathworlds, you are tunneling. You are really, really, really bad at this game.

In an interesting twist on OMGUS, Toadette calls deathworlds really bad but doesn't vote him.

[deathworlds]

I'm going to keep my vote on you unless I see reason to otherwise lift it.

[Toadette]

"I'm going to townread deathworlds for being so shitty at analysis so he'll unvote me."

You are arguing deathworld's argument is so bad that he's town.

No, I am arguing that deathworld's meta as TOWN due to RECENT EXPERIENCE with him says that he tunnels as town. In your game he tunneled me based on stupid logic. And he was town.

I have also seen that town tend to tunnel more than scum. That's a stupid town tell to me. Tunneling is not a scum tell.

[MattZed]

Read the context.

Deathworlds claims that I am scum bussing MattZed scum, but won't vote MattZed

So I say, "How can I be bussing MattZed as scum if MattZed is town" showing the flaw in deathworlds thought process.

This is taken as a scum slip of insider information, which really is a twist of my words.

From MattZed this is unacceptable. From deathworlds, it's due to his tunnel vision.

MattZed is scummy, Deathworlds is bad town.

So you're saying deathworlds is shit-tier but I'm just above shit-tier so nitpicking something is scummy?

[Toadette]

In an interesting twist on OMGUS, Toadette calls deathworlds really bad but doesn't vote him.

Because I'M TOWN READING HIM. YOU ARE TWISTING EVERYTHING I SAY.

Deathworlds, look at MattZed's votes.

And Deathworlds, can you point out ANYWHERE else you think I'm scum other than PRE-FLIP bussing meta? Your entire analysis was that I'm bussing MattZed.

[Toadette]

So you're saying deathworlds is shit-tier but I'm just above shit-tier so nitpicking something is scummy?

I'm saying that deathworlds is stuck in a tunnel of me once again.

You however have a TERRIBLE reasoning for sheeping deathworlds onto me, and are now twisting things I say. Deathworlds is stuck in a tunnel so his arguments are biased; you on the other hand have no reason to be stuck in a tunnel of me.

[MattZed]

Because I'M TOWN READING HIM. YOU ARE TWISTING EVERYTHING I SAY.

Deathworlds, look at MattZed's votes.

And Deathworlds, can you point out ANYWHERE else you think I'm scum other than PRE-FLIP bussing meta? Your entire analysis was that I'm bussing MattZed.

Like I said, it's an OMGUS 2.0. You still insult their intelligence for voting you, but instead of voting you say they must be town in the hopes of bullying them into taking their vote off.

[MattZed]

I'm saying that deathworlds is stuck in a tunnel of me once again.

You however have a TERRIBLE reasoning for sheeping deathworlds onto me, and are now twisting things I say. Deathworlds is stuck in a tunnel so his arguments are biased; you on the other hand have no reason to be stuck in a tunnel of me.

I've already told you that my vote on you was a test to see how sincere you were about Frog being your top scumread. You failed that test spectacularly.

[Toadette]

Like I said, it's an OMGUS 2.0. You still insult their intelligence for voting you, but instead of voting you say they must be town in the hopes of bullying them into taking their vote off.

No, OMGUS is when you scum read someone for scum reading you. He is town. You aren't even scum hunting here, you are taking anything I say and trying to turn it scummy no matter my response. Here is evidence of that:

In an interesting twist on OMGUS, Toadette calls deathworlds really bad but doesn't vote him.

Why would I vote a town read? You are literally making up scum tells that don't exist.

I've already told you that my vote on you was a test to see how sincere you were about Frog being your top scumread. You failed that test spectacularly.

So pretty much your argument as well is a pre-flip bussing argument that I wasn't serious about voting Frog. So me + Frog must be scum pals. COOL SO ME + FROG + MATTZED ARE THE SCUM TEAM GG EVERYONE

Yet you and Deathworlds are on the same page here?

[MattZed]

No, OMGUS is when you scum read someone for scum reading you. He is town. You aren't even scum hunting here, you are taking anything I say and trying to turn it scummy no matter my response. Here is evidence of that:

So pretty much your argument as well is a pre-flip bussing argument that I wasn't serious about voting Frog. So me + Frog must be scum pals. COOL SO ME + FROG + MATTZED ARE THE SCUM TEAM GG EVERYONE

Yet you and Deathworlds are on the same page here?

lol you don't even know what OMGUS is. OMGUS is when you vote/pressure someone who just voted you, primarily because they voted you. You called him "really, really, really bad at this game" because he voted you.

[Toadette]

Deathworlds, look at reason.

Your argument is that me and MattZed are scum together for... bussing. Even though neither of us have flipped.

His argument is that me and Frog are scum together for... bussing. Even though neither of us have flipped.

In your case, it's obvious you're tunneling. MattZed is being opportunistic and taking the "Toadette busses.... OMG WHOEVER TOADETTE VOTES AND UNVOTES MUST BE SCUM WITH HER" meta route because you are, even though there is 0 other evidence of me being scum at all.

Guess what other idea he mentioned? That's right, I accused Frog of buddying me - so MattZed turns around and accuses me and Darkness of buddying.

MattZed is doing 0 scumhunting, and just sheeping other people's ideas and misrepping everyone's posts.

[Toadette]

lol you don't even know what OMGUS is. OMGUS is when you vote/pressure someone who just voted you, primarily because they voted you. You called him "really, really, really bad at this game" because he voted you.

AND I DIDN'T VOTE HIM! WHAT PRESSURE AM I PUTTING ON HIM BY READING HIM AS TOWN

[MattZed]

AND I DIDN'T VOTE HIM! WHAT PRESSURE AM I PUTTING ON HIM BY READING HIM AS TOWN

You're calling him dumb out of hopes he'll second-guess himself and unvote you, despite clearly getting an impression of you as scum from his analysis.

[Toadette]

You're calling him dumb out of hopes he'll second-guess himself and unvote you, despite clearly getting an impression of you as scum from his analysis.

His impression is that you + me are scum and that he's bussing. It's a joint association read - before any flip. aka, it's stupid. And you're scummy as fuck for sheeping that.

[MattZed]

His impression is that you + me are scum and that he's bussing. It's a joint association read - before any flip. aka, it's stupid. And you're scummy as fuck for sheeping that.

I'm voting you for my own reasons. Of course I'm not sheeping the idea that we're scumbuddies.

[Toadette]

I remember how day 1 works. See you all Day 2.

Nononono. You haven't been in games recently, and we need you to participate so we learn your meta.

Get back in here or die.

-vote GameFreak

Bad reason to vote GameFreak.

Why are you defending Gamefreak, who has actively admitted they won't be playing D1?

Misrep after deathworlds does an RVS vote.

(BTW, RVS is random voting stage - when people start the game voting for no reason / poor reasons to get discussion going)

I suppose I can sheep this.

-vote Firebringer

So, Firebringer, you actually PM the host to replace out or is this yet another instance of your bluffing to?

Sheep vote. Literally admits to sheeping.

He doesn't get frustrated like this as scum.



It's effective in mechanically deducing who is aligned via who must not be aligned. It's the most common method used in vanilla games I've played. Only aligned scum (mafia) would fear this.

-vote MattZed

)

Because most the players here are competent at vanilla, and you certainly couldn't exploit it to make yourself look good on a site where the method isn't commonly used.

Nice job trying to scare me into not question your methods, though.

-vote Frog

Pure OMGUS vote.

Darkness, where have you been in this game?

-vote DarknessB

Moves vote to Darkness for no reason other than "oh hey you haven't been around"

Speaking of Calix, maybe she'll get in here if I vote her.

-vote Calix

Does the same thing to Calix. This ends up starting a train that almost lynches her.

You all have decided to like Calix? Fine. At least she showed up. GameFreak really hasn't, even after being called out on pledging to stay out of D1.

-vote GameFreak

Calix, DarknessB, and GameFreak haven't voted today. Let's see if we can actually change that.

That's 3 votes in a row for not a scummy player, but for inactive players.

Not voting yet because this could be LYLO and 3 scum can just speedvote us to death.

-FOS Frog

Really, couldn't make it an hour-and-a-half before day ends? You know we needed to lynch, and you didn't think even two hours before lynch was a good time to show up?

Sheeps my FOS of Frog.

deathworlds you need more pressure after a half-assed vote like that.

-vote deathworlds

Continues throwing votes around hoping they'll stick

Good ISO, death. This man wants to win.

-vote Toadette

Throws another vote around.


Now THAT'S erratic behavior - I wonder why Deathworlds hasn't picked up on that? Oh that's right, he's too busy tunneling me and reading MattZed as town even though his whole tunnel on me is focused on bussing.

[Toadette]

I'm voting you for my own reasons. Of course I'm not sheeping the idea that we're scumbuddies.

You literally stated your reasoning as me not being serious of voting Frog aka me + Frog pre-flip association.

[MattZed]

You literally stated your reasoning as me not being serious of voting Frog aka me + Frog pre-flip association.

No, AKA you're trying to get any lynch off that you can think of and aren't too invested in anyone you actually claim to scumread.

You INSTANTLY flipped on me the moment I voted you. That's all it really took, because you weren't actually after Frog, just trying to mislynch someone who looked suspicious by failing to show up before day ends.

And now, of course, you're trying to throw suspicion on me for TRYING TO KEEP THIS GAME ALIVE by pressuring inactive players to participate and trying to get D1 to actually have a lynch.

[Toadette]

Derp derp derp

I'm not engaging with MattZed anymore, as I can't handle talking to a very stupid wall.

To everyone else, the reason why I'm insulting deathworlds so much is because I've witnessed this behavior from him before already, TWICE.

[Toadette]

Also for everyone else, my reasoning for voting Frog was NOT for not showing up before the end of the day. That's MATTZED'S reasoning - he's misrepping me once again.

A quick ISO of me shows that I was voting Frog for being shaky for his day 1 stance of no lynching in a vanilla game followed by his buddying of me when I didn't think that I deserved to be town read at that moment.

aka MattZed is "scum-reading" me for the opinion HE has of Frog, not my actual opinion of Frog.

[MattZed]

I'm not engaging with MattZed anymore, as I can't handle talking to a very stupid wall.

To everyone else, the reason why I'm insulting deathworlds so much is because I've witnessed this behavior from him before already, TWICE.

LOLOL "Derp derp derp." That's probably going in my signature after this game.

Why are you clarifying to everyone why you're insulting deathworlds instead of explaining to them why you read me as scum? You're backpedaling against a mass backlash that hasn't happened yet.

You're going for any lynch (currently the supposedly easy MattZed lynch) while townreading deathworlds to get him to unvote. It's a somewhat nuanced scum strategy, I'll give you that.

[Toadette]

Derp derp

Why are you clarifying to everyone why you're insulting deathworlds instead of explaining to them why you read me as scum? You're backpedaling against a mass backlash that hasn't happened yet.

derp derp

He says this on the same page as a whole bunch of posts I quoted as to why he's scummy. Wow. The derpiness if this is town is so high it's worse than firebringer levels.

[MattZed]

Also for everyone else, my reasoning for voting Frog was NOT for not showing up before the end of the day. That's MATTZED'S reasoning - he's misrepping me once again.

A quick ISO of me shows that I was voting Frog for being shaky for his day 1 stance of no lynching in a vanilla game followed by his buddying of me when I didn't think that I deserved to be town read at that moment.

aka MattZed is "scum-reading" me for the opinion HE has of Frog, not my actual opinion of Frog.

You're being remarkably defensive in the face of what you present as the tunneling of idiots.

in fairness I will admit to a small misrep on your motivation. It's good to know you actually had reasons for voting that can totally go out the window when you see a more active easy target come around.

[MattZed]

He says this on the same page as a whole bunch of posts I quoted as to why he's scummy. Wow. The derpiness if this is town is so high it's worse than firebringer levels.

And you clarified why you called deathworlds dumb on the same page when you listed why he's being dumb.

I'm derping no more than you are, ma'am.

[Toadette]

And you clarified why you called deathworlds dumb on the same page when you listed why he's being dumb.

I'm derping no more than you are, ma'am.

Do you have an actual response to your non-scum hunting mud flinging?

You're being remarkably defensive in the face of what you present as the tunneling of idiots.

in fairness I will admit to a small misrep on your motivation. It's good to know you actually had reasons for voting that can totally go out the window when you see a more active easy target come around.

There is so much wrong in this post I don't even know where to begin.

Since when has "being remarkably defensive" actually been a scum tell? Let's think about this a second. On this site, everyone does this. Accuses someone or "reaction tests" them, then turns around and says:

a) You're being too defensive, or
b) You're deflecting/ignoring pressure

They just pick whatever fits the situation they're trying to paint. This is dumb, but both scum and town do it so it's not a scum tell. Just like being too defensive/not defensive enough isn't actually a scumtell either.

Second, you misrep me again. You weren't a "more active easy target" that just "came around". You were here, you placed a FOS on Frog yourself - for a shit reason. "lul Frog you can't make dumb excuses for not being around like missing day end, FOS lul you're not that dumb" is a bad reason for a FOS.

You throw your vote around like no other, so what you're accusing me of is actually what you're doing more yourself

You continue to misrep me after apologizing for misrep, which is so silly.

[Toadette]

In conclusion:

MattZed hasn't placed a vote that actually makes any sense. He's literally moving his vote around to everyone, depending on the flavor of the moment. Seems to me he's projecting "you're just going for whatever convenient vote there is" onto me to avoid the fact that that's exactly what he's doing.

The vote on me was no less. It was lazy, a sheep vote, and with no reason.

Do you even have any reads this game Matt?

[MattZed]

Do you have an actual response to your non-scum hunting mud flinging?



There is so much wrong in this post I don't even know where to begin.

Since when has "being remarkably defensive" actually been a scum tell? Let's think about this a second. On this site, everyone does this. Accuses someone or "reaction tests" them, then turns around and says:

a) You're being too defensive, or
b) You're deflecting/ignoring pressure

They just pick whatever fits the situation they're trying to paint. This is dumb, but both scum and town do it so it's not a scum tell. Just like being too defensive/not defensive enough isn't actually a scumtell either.

Second, you misrep me again. You weren't a "more active easy target" that just "came around". You were here, you placed a FOS on Frog yourself - for a shit reason. "lul Frog you can't make dumb excuses for not being around like missing day end, FOS lul you're not that dumb" is a bad reason for a FOS.

You throw your vote around like no other, so what you're accusing me of is actually what you're doing more yourself

You continue to misrep me after apologizing for misrep, which is so silly.

Au contraire, I'm not saying defending hard is a scumtell. Rather, I'm pointing out you're putting a lot of effort into debunking the work of two supposed idiots. Perhaps you find their criticisms more valid than you admit? Or maybe you're really upset that you're about to lose you winstreak to people who vote you when you think you've played a solid scum game.

The mismatch between Frog's statements to participate and his actual participation when he's needed are worth criticism. This is also consistent with my plan to PRESSURE PEOPLE INTO NOT LETTING THIS GAME DIE.

The only vote I "threw around" without a good reason was sheeping deathworlds. Easy reaction test, and you insta-OMGUS'd. Took you all of one minute, literally the post after mine, to vote me in return.

[MattZed]

Herpidy derp derp

The vote on me was no less. It was lazy, a sheep vote, and with no reason.

Herp derp

You're still trying to pretend that I didn't completely catch you with a reaction test.

[MattZed]

Off to bed. Withdrawing vote so Toadette doesn't get ninja hammered while I'm asleep. Vote will be back in the morning.

-unvote

[Toadette]

Off to bed. Withdrawing vote so Toadette doesn't get ninja hammered while I'm asleep. Vote will be back in the morning.

-unvote

If your so certain I'm scum, why would this be a concern at all? Or just don't want to be shown as completely committed to my lynch since you know I'll flip town? I was at L-2, this is so overly cautious it's silly.

[Thornholt]

I've read the case of toadette vw Mattzed.... Mattzed has indeed spun what toadette saud to his liking and advantage. Her case on him also makes a lot of sense. I won't be making a ton of quotes and all that since I'm on my phone, but mostly what toadette mentioned, I agree with and Mattzed spun her words to his advantage. Trying to get a mislynch off. He then removed vote in order to remove some suspicions.

-vote Mattzed

[MattZed]

I've read the case of toadette vw Mattzed.... Mattzed has indeed spun what toadette saud to his liking and advantage. Her case on him also makes a lot of sense. I won't be making a ton of quotes and all that since I'm on my phone, but mostly what toadette mentioned, I agree with and Mattzed spun her words to his advantage. Trying to get a mislynch off. He then removed vote in order to remove some suspicions.

-vote Mattzed

So you're not concerned at all with how she responded to the reaction test?

Anyways:

-vote Toadette

[MattZed]

If your so certain I'm scum, why would this be a concern at all? Or just don't want to be shown as completely committed to my lynch since you know I'll flip town? I was at L-2, this is so overly cautious it's silly.

Today could be LYLO. It would be irresponsible to leave someone at L-2 if I couldn't be on to stop scum from both being on, voting, and possibly winning.

Why are you ignoring that there could be 3 scum atm?

[DarknessB]

Well, this was some fun reading guys... I've flipped through the pages a couple of times trying to get into the crux of what you're each saying. Overall, Toadette's argument seems more logical to me -- i.e. that deathworlds is tunneling and that Matt's reaction test, used as a justification to vote up Toadette, was bizarre.

[DarknessB]

Per the game clock, we also have a little less than 4 hours left until day end and a bunch of people are still AFK...

[Spruance]

You haven't voted either lol. I just have no idea what is going on :P

[Toadette]

Today could be LYLO. It would be irresponsible to leave someone at L-2 if I couldn't be on to stop scum from both being on, voting, and possibly winning.

Why are you ignoring that there could be 3 scum atm?

Here you go misrepping me again. I'm not ignoring that there could be 3 scum and you suggesting that is just silly.

If you're so sure I'm scum then why the hesitation is my question. Or are you just waiting to see if this mislynch really takes hold?

[Toadette]

Per the game clock, we also have a little less than 4 hours left until day end and a bunch of people are still AFK...

Vote MattZed.

[Toadette]

If this is very much LYLO we can't no lynch. Lynch or lose... it's there in the acronym.

[Frog]

Back

[Frog]

Unless Toadette claimed, she's obviously town.

Whoever replaced Fire, Fire wouldn't quit as scum out of frustration.

[Thornholt]

Unless Toadette claimed, she's obviously town.

Whoever replaced Fire, Fire wouldn't quit as scum out of frustration.

I'm the replacement

[Frog]

Makes sense. Thornholt + Toadette on MattZed.

Curious why Darkness didn't pick up more traction, but happy to see FOS on MattZed.

[Toadette]

Per the game clock, we also have a little less than 4 hours left until day end and a bunch of people are still AFK...

We have 1 day and 6 hours left per Orpz takeover. Plenty of time to come vote MattZed