S-FM 135: Corrupt

[Orpz]

Witness Protection need to claim today. If he is an power role, then we can let the cult kill him for us. IMO, the cult fears Joker more than we do. I am fairly convinced that he would target at least one scum.



I've read the exchange, they look fine to me. He might look scummy fypov. Please quote some scummy things he did.

things? You only need one. The fact that you ask for more insinuates scum partners trying to inhibit a lynch.

[powerofdeath]

So much OMGUS right now from Orpz, saying everyone who voted him is scum. k.

-vote Orpz

If we dont lynch today, then this town is fail.

[Orpz]

So much OMGUS right now from Orpz, saying everyone who voted him is scum. k.

-vote Orpz

If we dont lynch today, then this town is fail.

So what's your case on me? That I'm an active Town and you need me dead?

[Orpz]

Because you just said I OMGUS'd and then voted me right after I called you and deathworlds scum.

OMGUS and hypocrisy is much bigger scum tell than just plain OMGUS (which I didn't even do).

[powerofdeath]

So what's your case on me? That I'm an active Town and you need me dead?

That youre a scum and I do need you dead. Youre half right!

Because you just said I OMGUS'd and then voted me right after I called you and deathworlds scum.

OMGUS and hypocrisy is much bigger scum tell than just plain OMGUS (which I didn't even do).

No, 5 people voted you day 2, and you call us out. If anything, youre being a hypocrite atm.

[xRavenx]

Host, could you please reset the votes?

I think it's be better to lynch Witness Protection than Liepard. Liepard is inactive and might not come on to kill again. Also she'll be modkilled if she doesn't post. The Joker can kill twice and if we lynch Witness Protection there'll only be one death if any. If Liepard does kill then technically it'll be the equivalent of two kills so there's not much difference. Can Joker pick a new target once his old one is killed? Lemme check the role card real quick.

[xRavenx]

Ok it doesn't say what happens if the target is killed.

What happens if the Joker's target is killed within the two days?

[Orpz]

That youre a scum and I do need you dead. Youre half right!



No, 5 people voted you day 2, and you call us out. If anything, youre being a hypocrite atm.

Ignored my accusation and made a false refute on my defense instead of offense. Scum confirmed.

[Orpz]

@everyone else, what is your opinion of my alignment this game?

[Orpz]

The most convincing reason to me for why PoD is likely scum is that town would have easily recognized my defense as at least semi credible whereas PoD just flat out refuses to admit it. Even Town vs Town arguments include a little bit of concession, so a lack of that pretty much shows this is Scum vs Town

[Vantas]

Orpz, your posts come off spammy as fuck to be honest, especially before today. You seem pretty quick to point the finger as well, which in my book is a big red flag. Though I gotta agree with you about Deathworlds in a way, he's gone completely inactive as of late and he just uses WIFOM to be like "hurr I'm a PR what now". And if you were purple scum I don't think you would point out your own team mates. So for that, like I stated earlier, I think you're Joker.

Gonna throw this out there, but Raven ignored the whole situation going on between PoD and Orpz, and to me she seems like a potential target for corruption. Just gonna throw out my thoughts here.

[Vantas]

Yo RLVG I'm calling you out here I see you browsing the thread.

Thoughts on the situation?

[Orpz]

Orpz, your posts come off spammy as fuck to be honest, especially before today. You seem pretty quick to point the finger as well, which in my book is a big red flag. Though I gotta agree with you about Deathworlds in a way, he's gone completely inactive as of late and he just uses WIFOM to be like "hurr I'm a PR what now". And if you were purple scum I don't think you would point out your own team mates. So for that, like I stated earlier, I think you're Joker.

Gonna throw this out there, but Raven ignored the whole situation going on between PoD and Orpz, and to me she seems like a potential target for corruption. Just gonna throw out my thoughts here.

Being passive is shit for any alignment and invalid as a tell.

Joker? So you think I'm scum.

[Orpz]

The amount of text I write is no more than one big wall of text, I just choose to break it into multiple posts because people like to read smaller, frequent posts than large wall of texts.

[Vantas]

Being passive is shit for any alignment and invalid as a tell.

Joker? So you think I'm scum.

I'm not necessarily saying that you should be passive, I'm saying you're jumping to conclusions too readily. There's a fine balance in which you crossed on the aggressive end. As to answer your next question, yes. However I don't want to throw around my vote with the bounty out there and there's really no point to add pressure cause you're here right now.

And when did I say anything about your post length? Lol I don't understand why you said that bit.

[Hypersniper]

resetcount

Please recast your votes

[Vantas]

resetcount

Please recast your votes

Answer my question please. It's on the previous page.

[Hypersniper]

Joker can not kill if he is lynched\killed
And if you kill joker target joker must wait a day before casting again but if you let him kill then he can cast instantly after

[xRavenx]

I think Orpz is town. His posts normally seem spammy and he tends to troll a bit. He hasn't been trolling at all today and is contributing.

-vote liepard442

[Orpz]

I'm not necessarily saying that you should be passive, I'm saying you're jumping to conclusions too readily. There's a fine balance in which you crossed on the aggressive end. As to answer your next question, yes. However I don't want to throw around my vote with the bounty out there and there's really no point to add pressure cause you're here right now.

And when did I say anything about your post length? Lol I don't understand why you said that bit.

"spammy as fuck"

I'm like 99% sure you only think I'm Joker because of "troll posts"

Joker's ability isn't to pick lynches. His ability is to somehow cause people to forget any rational thoughts and assume troll = 100% Joker.

[Orpz]

STOP lynching anyone else. Because the scums are just going to keep lynch focus on me and waste day lynches. If you're going to lynch someone, lynch between me and my accusers.

[Witness Protection]

OK, I need to be lynched today. Since I have to go, I'll claim with my actions.

I'm the escort, and both Nights I escorted Orpz. That may explain why there was no kill last night.

Without a pretty good shot for the joker, Town'd be remiss not to lynch me.

-vote Orpz

[Orpz]

Confirmed, I was roleblocked both nights

[Orpz]

"Corrupt killer(Sk)
May kill 1 person each night.
kills roleblocks."

.................................................. ............................

[Orpz]

Scum who think it's a good idea to lynch me: yeah you'll kill me but in the process I'll fight you furiously in the day chat. You will be easily outed for it. Easier to find someone else.

[Helz]

I have a second so if you are quick I can respond.

I have no idea how this 'cult can either kill or convert' nonsense got started but read the role cards. This suggests that our sk did not submit an action or the doc is a fucking OG Pro.

I am fairly certain that orpz is the joker. I would favor a lynch on him to a lynch on our escort even with the knowledge that I am a pretty good joker target. We can half confirm if he is not if someone asks "can the joker select a bounties if he is role blocked" (I can't do colors)

But.

We could also ask if the joker is prevented from killing by an rb and lynch someone other than orpz if he can't. This would clear orpz and add both a potential for a different lynch on the joker as well as saving 2 townies. (orpz and witness) I hope everyone sees the logic in this.

Also joker kills happen if the target is not killed in 2 days. I read this as killing witness with our vigilante tonight will not stop joker kills. Also I think a check on the OoO would put joker before vigilante

[Helz]

Oh yeah. And if orpz or witness flip cult I would consider the other as potentially cult as well from the above interaction.

[Helz]

And can someone ask if doc can heal joker kills..

[Orpz]

Why do you think I'm the Joker?

I'm aight with your roleblock me for a THIRD night plan to clear myself, but I'd really, really not prefer it if the alternative is open your eyes and see the blatant.

[Orpz]

blatant scum*

[Orpz]

Can Joker put bounties while roleblocked?

[Helz]

You really do not have much say in the matter..

I think I started this train on you and the post had reasoning. But the epic reaction on your part really drove the feeling home

[Orpz]

So it's a scum tell to defend myself?

[Orpz]

Yeah, your reasoning for voting me was because I was trolling and therefore scum. I'm asking why do you think I'm specifically the Joker?

[Helz]

Its not that you are defending yourself but how you are defending yourself. You act like you have no reguard for any alignment and your post just seemed so care free. Like you knew your actions would be justified by your role flip.

[Orpz]

Its not that you are defending yourself but how you are defending yourself. You act like you have no reguard for any alignment and your post just seemed so care free. Like you knew your actions would be justified by your role flip.

It's anything but carefree. Carefree would have been continuing to type my posts in a troll way for a defense, but I've taken a more serious stance this game in order to not die and detriment my team. My actions are trolling on day 1, half and half on day 2, serious on day 3, that seems pretty Town to me and would be justified by my role flip, so yeah.

[Helz]

Everything I am saying now is from the hip but I remember when I went through your posts at the time I FoSed you only one post by you had any value what so ever. The fact that you got serious when you saw a lynch over your head doesn't mean much. Lucky for you I threw out a plan that could vindicate you inspite of your early game actions and suspicious defense. If I were you I would focus on that plan tomorow when everyone is up and active. But to be clear- If a joker role block blocks kills it would be equally beneficial for town to lynch you and let witness hit a different player. If I were able to be around tomorrow to post I would lobby between these options.

[Orpz]

Host trolls for 3 days and no one bats an eye

Orpz trolls for one day and everybody loses their mind

[Vantas]

"spammy as fuck"

I'm like 99% sure you only think I'm Joker because of "troll posts"

Joker's ability isn't to pick lynches. His ability is to somehow cause people to forget any rational thoughts and assume troll = 100% Joker.

I'm not assuming that troll = 100% Joker at all, while that was apart of my reasoning and it irked me quite a bit to be honest, the main thing is that you're jumping to conclusions really fast which sent a red card to me. Oh, and the ultimatums were annoying too.

Witness's testimony proves here that you're not a killing role at least. It honestly's coming down to the point if you believe her or not here. I personally do. That next question's answer is gonna mean a whole heck of a lot though. I'm not going to point the finger at you if it turns in your favor - Witness has no reason to protect you if you're Joker in the first place. And I don't see how Joker could act if they place the bounty successfully. So I'm willing to believe you for now unless host says otherwise.

Without a good idea who Joker is, seems to me smartest lynch is the bounty. Sorry Witness :/

-vote Witness Protection

[Vantas]

@Orpz It's because we have higher standards of you. I thought that was obvious xD

[Orpz]

Witness is legit, the roleblock and action checks out. Bad lynch choice

[Vantas]

Witness is legit, the roleblock and action checks out. Bad lynch choice

But Joker kills twice, he could just kill Witness and someone else if he wants. So she's pretty much gonna die anyway. Not to mention SK and corruption's a problem if they double up on her.

Gtg for a little bit - watching Blackhawks/Kings game atm

[Orpz]

So a Town's going to die anyway and you think the best solution is to lynch him instead???
I'm assuming you just worded it weirdly and don't actually think that.

[_Q2]

Oh dear fuck, I seriously regret signing up for this game. This is literally just one giant clusterfuck right now.

Anyway, I'm suspicious of Orpz for a lot of reasoning. In his reasoning that Town would have recognized his defense and backed off, that is not the only thing that can happen. On a psychological approach, this is indicating that this is what Orpz is trying to force us to believe, thus trying to make people back off from him in the long run, and it obviously isn't working. However, in the aspect of situation, I'm sure Orpz would know better to dismiss the idea that attackers will likely pick through defenses and try to find more holes, which makes me even more suspicious of Orpz in the process of that.

HOWEVER...

There is one thing that I'm doubting myself on, and that's Orpz's constant persistence that he is innocent, and that lynching somebody else would be a better choice than lynching him. This is where my psychological analyses are beginning to conflict with suggestions. One side points to Town panic, but the other side points to Scum panic. I really can't tell the difference between the two of them, since they are both typically extremely similar, making it hard to read Orpz in the situation that we are in right now. The only thing I can really point out is the persistence of Orpz's denial points to all parties in the situation being Town, with the exception of Orpz himself. Let me explain...

PoD: Taking the lead with the attack on Orpz, causing this mess to occur. The point of the mess points to Mafia, but the initial attack truly shows the psychological strain on Orpz, which points to being Town, and it outweighs the former by a longshot.
ThinkLiveLife: Using sound reasoning to use against Orpz. I'm thinking Town, but I can't get any emotional analysis from him.
Vantas: Somewhat on the side of the conversation, but provides valid points from time to time. Like TLL, I can't get an emotional analysis, but I'm leaning toward Town.

Now, onto the people that Orpz wants lynched...his attackers. That is the ridiculous part of what's going on that leads to even more scum reads from even more people. On an emotional and psychological analysis, OMGUS is typical from TOWN. It may be hard to believe at first, but the idea of Mafia voting for somebody simply because they voted for them first is just a sign of an easily breakable shell for the scum, and that's not what scum wants. Scum will typically defend themselves in any way possible -- and even in attempts of desperation -- to try and get people off of them. As explained by Orpz himself, he had his defense, and this is devolving into shameless OMGUS. With the devolution of what's going on, that's one of the biggest factors that points to Orpz being scum.

-vote Orpz

Most likely our best lynch for today.

[Orpz]

tfw strong defense doesnt beat shitty offense
tfw cult is like 5 people strong on day 3

my defense is now going to be elementary school-tier articulation and coherency to save effort

[Vantas]

So a Town's going to die anyway and you think the best solution is to lynch him instead???
I'm assuming you just worded it weirdly and don't actually think that.

Well I mean you were my main FOS but that was proven wrong by Witness. If we don't have enough evidence to go after someone right now other than that, then yeah. I mean I'm all for trying to find scum, but it seems to me chances are that we're gonna go potentially -4 town +1 scum tonight if Joker hits two town. And chances of that would be 3/4 at first and if it hits town it's roughly 72% to hit town next time (doesn't mean chances of kill, means chances of hitting. Also assuming each person has the same chance of getting hit, which I know isn't exactly true, but I'm not exactly sure how that'd be calculated). And I don't like those odds at all.

Even if Doc's on Witness, it seems to me the logical move for Mad Scientist is to try to corrupt them in addition to the almost for sure death target Joker's gonna have on them (reduces chances they get hit by RB). So if there's more than one scum is on Witness there is no saving her in one way or another. And the chance of corruption to use it to corrupt someone important to town's too risky to me. Our only chance that Witness would end up in the night unscathed is if scum did so much WIFOM that at max only one target was placed on her and Doc healed her. The only way that it would be good for Witness to not be lynched is if she's targeted so much by scum that it overall lowers KPN, or if Joker hits scum. To be honest, the odds of those two events seem too low. I'd rather be able to control our fate in some shape way or form rather than leave it to potential scum stupidity for our lives.

^This is all under the assumption we don't lynch today. If we lynch town, then it increases odds of scum being hit by Joker but honestly MLs aren't something we should be shooting for. If we lynch scum, it honestly depends on the kind of scum. Joker, then NVM that's great. Mad Scientist, that leaves us with no chance of further corruption but still lots of KPN problems. SK then that's still gonna lead to corruption/attack duo on Witness most likely and lead to less communication problems. Though while SK death would be good as it's -1 scum, it's probably the least beneficial scum death at this point. Either way, I think the only way that we could really benefit from lynching non-bounty is if we lynch either Joker or MS. And I dunno about you, but I don't see convicting enough evidence for that. I mean I'm fine with pressuring, but with the rate this game's going, I doubt we'd be able to get sufficient evidence down and a lynch to occur by the time day ends. I think it ends somewhat soonish? Wish Hyper would of said something about it.
When does Day end?

Cult's gotta be 3 people strong - TTL was A+H'd Day 2 iirc and a death did get off then. (unless scum didn't corrupt last night for whatever reason.) Wouldn't they be at 4 today, or am I missing something?

[Vantas]

Wait, Orpz, if you were RB'd, why didn't you say anything to that effect for the past two days?

[Vantas]

Until now that is.

[Orpz]

So I would know the roleblock claimer is legit once he claims. If I had claimed roleblock both days, I wouldn't be able to trust Witness as much as I do today.

[Orpz]

How about stop lynching town and try to lynch a Cult instead of relying on Joker to hit a Cult? That's bad reasoning and a lack of confidence