hate against foreigners

[DaftPink]

Hello! I have been reading your forum for quite a few days because I love mafia and wanted to contribute in some way to it.

I have noticed something, especially while reading the more spammy threads: A lot of people on this board seem quite hostile against foreigners / immigrants. This thread is not for pointing fingers, it's more about HOW and WHY.

Being an immigrant myself, I am well familiar with the situation. I'm originally from PR China/Hong Kong, but my family has moved to Germany before I went to primary school. Having spend the majority of my life here I can speak German accent-less, yet I sometimes fall victim to general hostility against foreigners. I thought this is typical for old, uneducated Germans that grew up in a closed-off state (East Germany) and didn't really expect to see it that much anywhere else.

So: If you are a foreigner (or you are a close friend of one), have you ever been target of general hostility?

If you are a non-foreigner: What is your opinion about immigrants?


Speak your mind freely. I am too interested in your opinions to judge them.


DP

[ika]

I think its more of the mindset people have. Me personally, I don't really care about what someone believe, their race, sexuality, ect. I find it that its more that in the spammy ones (ie circlejerk) its less enforced so you can say more. Here in serious discussion, things are stricter and sometimes do get controversial, the mods do look at the forum and try not to let anything get too far out of hand. Me being ex-staff, a lot of the things that go on are monitored by them, you may notice people cussing each other in the FMs or circlejerk. But that is because its allowed. If you actually look though, there are quite a few people on this site that are from different regions of the world

[Nick]

Hate unites. And make haters feel better.

[DaftPink]

I find it that its more that in the spammy ones (ie circlejerk) its less enforced so you can say more. Here in serious discussion, things are stricter and sometimes do get controversial, the mods do look at the forum and try not to let anything get too far out of hand.

Then maybe we should discuss this in circlejerk? I don't want people to feel restricted on stating their opinion. I really want to hear how they feel about immigration/immigrants. And I am interested on the WHY, if they know.

[Nick]

They steal jobs.
They refuse to integrate.
They are involved in crime.
They are a burden to our social service.
They compete for our limited resources.
They are an eyesore.
Amongst other things.
May or may not be supported by statistics.

It's not about being uneducated...

[DaftPink]

May I ask where you are from?

Did you experience these things directly / where is your this view coming from?

I'm curious.

[ika]

Then maybe we should discuss this in circlejerk? I don't want people to feel restricted on stating their opinion. I really want to hear how they feel about immigration/immigrants. And I am interested on the WHY, if they know.

if we put it in cj, it would quickly be filled with spam and derailed. While I say many will speak their mind, you have to know there has to be a restriction on some things. You will probably get a good amount of responses overall. If it gets out of hand the mods will take care of it.

[Nick]

Third generation Chinese born in Malaysia. Get "hate" from Malay natives.
A lot of lowly-skilled foreign workers in Malaysia. Give "hate" to Indonesians, Nepalis, Bangladeshis, Filipinos, etc.
Currently in Chinese majority Singapore. Get "hate" from Chinese Singaporeans.

"Hate" differs depending on where you are from. So, if you are only interested in "hate" in Germany, and to particular demographics, mine may not apply.

[Nick]

Oh and also saw "hate" of Singaporeans to lowly and highly-skilled foreigners. "Hate" differs depends whether you are lowly or highly skilled.

[Nick]

"Hate" may range from hostility, dislike, envy, unease... from strong to mild.

[DaftPink]

Interesting. I have many friends who are Chinese living in Malaysia / Singapore. Don't think I'm close minded / haven't traveled a lot just because I am from Germany, lol.

Living in Singapore now, how does hostility affect you personally? Do you have trouble finding a job? Do people stare at you in public? Do you feel like people don't take you serious? These are the three things that affect me the most here.

EDIT: I also thought that having more foreigners helps decrease hostility. The part of Germany I live in barely has any, especially rural areas and "hate" (like you word it) is through the roof. I expected the multinational and culturally diverse Singapore the last place to find it.

[powerofdeath]

We have players from all around the world. From US to many European country to Australia to China to Korea to Canada to South America and many more. There will always be trolls that make hate threads about ANYTHING. Do not take this personally. We would love to have you to be active around the forums and continue to play Mafia. Did you know that there are many staffs that aren't even American.

[Nick]

Living in Singapore now, how does hostility affect you personally? Chinese Malaysians are culturally similar (almost the same in fact) to Chinese Singaporeans. As long as I become permanent resident (PR), or perhaps later join national service (PRs currently not involved), they are fine I guess. Much easier to fit in than PR China Chinese.

Do you have trouble finding a job? Second on the list after Singaporeans.

Do people stare at you in public? No.

Do you feel like people don't take you serious? No.


You are like my Nigerian friend in Singapore lol. Because looks are different.

[Nick]

Online bias cuz language, slang, grammar.

[DaftPink]

Sure. Looking immensely different than everybody else, I stick out like a sore thumb.

It's interesting how Malay Chinese are treated differently than "mainlanders". I would have never thought. I was in Singapore twice but only for travels and not for working. The place is great. I guess you didn't regret moving there.

[Bunny]

mostly I just dislike how they refuse to fully integrate and expect hand outs all the time.

[Numbertwo]

mostly I just dislike how they refuse to fully integrate and expect hand outs all the time.

are you talking about the french canadians? then i understand what you mean.

[Bunny]

are you talking about the french canadians? then i understand what you mean.

uhm no like filipinos, chinese, the indians do a bit better than the others mentioned but still not great.

[deathworlds]

Indians being foreign.

Wat.

[Bunny]

Indians being foreign.

Wat.

you know.. from india. not native americans...

[DaftPink]

Well, what does fully integrate mean? Does it mean you're giving up anything that makes you a foreigner in the first place? (different food, language, culture, believes)

What is an integrated foreigner?

[Helz]

I think its just the way people are. When I go to a small town bar that's not use to visitors its the same story regardless of the country. Even the people I am with are from random places get a bit of it. I think all cultures treat outsiders as less..

[Bunny]

Well, what does fully integrate mean? Does it mean you're giving up anything that makes you a foreigner in the first place? (different food, language, culture, believes)

What is an integrated foreigner?

Someone who considers themselves as a member of that country, speaks their language and takes on their customs as well as keeping their own. Why move to a country to just reap their benefits but dont bother to learn the langauge and be a useful citizen. I wouldnt move to France without being able to speak french. You move to a country not to be a foreigner but to become "american" lets say. If you want to remain complelty chinese foreign then just stay in your homeland and visit america if you're not going to provide anything to your new country.

[DaftPink]

I wouldnt move to France without being able to speak french. You move to a country not to be a foreigner but to become "american" lets say. If you want to remain complelty chinese foreign then just stay in your homeland and visit america if you're not going to provide anything to your new country.

Language is necessary to live in any place. I won't argue with that. You could move to France and then learn French if have enough money to stay long enough without a job.

But I think there is more to your nationality than just a language.

Take me as an example. I am fluent in both Chinese and German. I look Chinese, like both countries food and grew up in a mix of both cultures. I don't even know what my nationality is (officially it's Chinese, though). I have also have passports from both countries.

But is language enough to be fully integrated? Do you have to be foreign to be not integrated?

Maybe being foreign and being integrated are to separate things?

[Bunny]

Language is necessary to live in any place. I won't argue with that. You could move to France and then learn French if have enough money to stay long enough without a job.

But I think there is more to your nationality than just a language.

Take me as an example. I am fluent in both Chinese and German. I look Chinese, like both countries food and grew up in a mix of both cultures. I don't even know what my nationality is (officially it's Chinese, though). I have also have passports from both countries.

But is language enough to be fully integrated? Do you have to be foreign to be not integrated?

Maybe being foreign and being integrated are to separate things?

Well i did mention more than just language in my post. I'm not talking about you you seem to be a lot more integrated. I'm talking about people who move to the country I live in, dont learn the language, continue on with their coutnries habits only, dont vote, expect handouts from the govt and their work and other citizens for being foreign and don't bother to become "Canadian." It seems like a lot of immigrants only want to remain their first background. However, if you become a citizen of canada, you're canadian as well. Many foreigners are even racist towards other canadians and I just find it odd! People like you are obviously good examples of immigrating, but a lot of people aren't! It goes for any country though. Anywhere in the world thugh if you don't belong everyone senses it and treats you differently.

[Helz]

Well i did mention more than just language in my post. I'm not talking about you you seem to be a lot more integrated. I'm talking about people who move to the country I live in, dont learn the language, continue on with their coutnries habits only, dont vote, expect handouts from the govt and their work and other citizens for being foreign and don't bother to become "Canadian." It seems like a lot of immigrants only want to remain their first background.

I can say I have quite a bit of trouble with this. I really want to push people out of my area that pull this crap. The worst is when some asshole is talking shit about you in another language thinking you don't understand until you call them out on it.

I try to be accepting but 'piss on freeloading assholes'..

[Mugy]

Well i did mention more than just language in my post. I'm not talking about you you seem to be a lot more integrated. I'm talking about people who move to the country I live in, dont learn the language, continue on with their coutnries habits only, dont vote, expect handouts from the govt and their work and other citizens for being foreign and don't bother to become "Canadian." It seems like a lot of immigrants only want to remain their first background. However, if you become a citizen of canada, you're canadian as well. Many foreigners are even racist towards other canadians and I just find it odd! People like you are obviously good examples of immigrating, but a lot of people aren't! It goes for any country though. Anywhere in the world thugh if you don't belong everyone senses it and treats you differently.

I fully agree with this, being chinese in New Zealand.
I was born here, so I am fluent is both mandarin and english kinda like DaftPink. I consider myself 100% kiwi, seeing as I have never lived in China, only been there on brief visits.
I too get annoyed with people who can't even speak english and continue on with ridiculous things such as cooking dogs, etc.

I have met people who are immigrants, who are seriously trying to learn english and be a part of the country, those I believe we should welcome.
There problem here is, some people treat all "immigrants" the same, regardless of what I mentioned above. I think DaftPink is only referring to these kind of people in this discussion. They judge purely on the colour of my skin, whether it's because they are narrow minded or just mis-educated.
Those are the true "foreigner" haters.

So in summary, your opinion has approval from a "foreigner" Well one at least...


There's really not much that can be done to fix things like this, just wait it out. People should eventually understand.

[DaftPink]

... and continue on with ridiculous things such as cooking dogs, etc.

Korean much ... lol? But ... people eat horses here (the Germans)!

There problem here is, some people treat all "immigrants" the same, regardless of what I mentioned above. I think DaftPink is only referring to these kind of people in this discussion. They judge purely on the colour of my skin, whether it's because they are narrow minded or just mis-educated.

Actually no. I want everyone's opinion. Especially from those who have direct negative experiences with foreigners. I am well aware that people are just hostile against them for no reason but those wouldn't have much to say to our discussion, would they?

This thread is not to bash on people who dislike foreigners either or some weird immigrant-fan-club.

[Frog]

I am Mexican American. I grew up in Belgium. I currently live in Dubai. I've lived in many countries around the world.

People who show a distaste towards outsiders are exhibiting primitive behaviour. (Usually associated with underdeveloped mental capacities. Think caveman.)
The only point that I agree with Nick on is that immigrants compete for limited resources.
From a primitive standpoint, this means: Land, Food, Women.
From a modern standpoint, this means: Jobs, Social Welfare, Women. (I'm not kidding about the women.)


Earlier today, I was having a discussion with a co-worker about why some people still oppose globalization. I believe some of the key points will tie in with this topic:
In the history of civilization, when two or more groups meet there will always be winners and losers. The concept still applies with vague social consequences. Newcomers will only remain if they are 'winning' economically, and will therefore increase their social standing. Competition for economic and social standing in a community is more powerful in smaller communities (think rural). In a large enough environment, competition is limited as integration is not compulsory.

The lesson is, immigrants will be despised from a psychological standpoint whether or not they immerse.

I will say from personal experience that racism, classism, and elitism exists in every part of the world I have lived and travelled to. Whether this is a consequence of immigration or globalization is not my point. My point is people have cavemen brains and will hate you if you are different, but you will be revered if you are lighter skinned, noble, and/or very wealthy. I'm assuming this caveman brain has some messed up craving for a god in man... aka ALPHA.

*EDIT*
Treblinka's avatar is absolutely disgusting... 'dirty' foreigner