The Shepherd achievement

[pat_power]

The Shepherd

For every trial, the person must vote accordingly to the result (if the result was Guilty, then they must have voted Guilty, if it was Innocent, then they must have voted Innocent) and must not abstain. The person must also survive to the end and win.

I don't if it is possible to integrate into the game, but it'd be a nice achievement for the leader of a game.

[creedkingsx]

as a role, impossible.
As an achievement, encourages gamethrowing.

[ttam]

as a role, impossible.
As an achievement, encourages gamethrowing.

I don't understand how it encourages gamethrowing in any way at all. Like completely at all. Entirely no idea how it could encourage gamethrowing, I think you're just trying to shutdown what seems like a creative achievement for no reason at all.

Explain to me how it encourages gamethrowing in any aspect AT ALL. Not to mention I don't even think you read the title, he clearly said it was an achievement at no point did he suggest a role

The achievement relates to voting the correct way that a vote will swing.

I think you're thinking it'd encourage mafia to guilty their own, but I don't know if you've ever actually played sc2mafia but that is often a good strategy if the mafia on trial been called out by an investigator or sheriff to try and get the heat off themselves after their teammate was almost assured death. If you define gamethrowing as a mafia guiltying his own and the verdict being 4-3 then they could just as easily vote the other way and make it 3-4.

I don't think you understand what Pat was suggesting in the slightest.

and to Pat :

This is a great idea in my opinion, as someone who has all but run out of achievements to gather (only have 4-5 left that are annoying as hell and situational ie hung jury and marathon) I welcome any new achievement and I think this one would be great. My only criticism comes from the Jester mechanic, if the verdict is guilty you put your chances of earning the achievement in jeopardy due to the requirement of having to live until the end it edges on an annoying achievement to try and get. But on the other side maybe that is a way to make it more rare, you have to risk it to get the biscuit after all.

TLDR: Great idea, I think it's a wonderful suggestion regardless of what Creed says and I hope somewhere down the track it does get implemented, maybe under a different name. and inb4 my post is deleted because Creed hates me for whatever reason and tends to delete everything I post that doesn't run true with his own opinion.

[Mugy]

If say a mafia started a lynch train on an investigator. The investigator proves himself but then the people want to get this new "achievement" worth points. Herp derp vote with the mafia!

And also, wouldn't "sheep" be more appropriate?

[ttam]

If say a mafia started a lynch train on an investigator. The investigator proves himself but then the people want to get this new "achievement" worth points. Herp derp vote with the mafia!

And also, wouldn't "sheep" be more appropriate?

But the mafia are only 3 in a standard game, town is more, therefore capable of innocenting the investigator and still getting the achievement. If mafia trick the town and get the invest on trial in a 3v3 scenario town can't save the invest even if they do innocent.. so why not guilty? I think it's a pretty clever achievement and I don't see how it can promote gamethrowing unless you're really nitpicky about it, but that goes for a lot of achievements, you can pick "gamethrowing scenarios" from them even though they don't happen in practice.

for Example Corleone. A consigliere doesn't have the achievement and wants to get it. So he has his godfather killed in trial by claiming investigator and that he was a cit/sin just so he could get the achievement.

Same goes for mission failed - Godfather asks witch or bus driver to do a certain chain of events that result in a fellow mafia dying.

Nobody Wins also - mafia kills town in 1v1 at night and suicides depriving mafia of a victory.

It's easy to think catastrophically in theory but in practice how often do people ruin the game for their own selfish desires - not to mention this achievement has some form of metagame to it as you have to survive until the end, meaning you can't just let mafia kill your investigator

Edit : I'm not going to change anything I posted above, but I think I've found the ace in the hole against all arguments :P

It's not gamethrowing if you win.

The achievement is only given to people who complete the criteria, are still alive AND win.

As for titles, I'd like something related to judgements.. Correct Judgement maybe?

[Nick]

Title: Must Not Abstain!

[Mugy]

The thing is, we've seen behavior like this before. Hurting a team's chance of winning for an achievement. I'm not hypothesizing how people treat achievements of this kind.

[ttam]

The thing is, we've seen behavior like this before. Hurting a team's chance of winning for an achievement. I'm not hypothesizing how people treat achievements of this kind.

I can understand that, but this achievement explicitly states that they must win, It may be a similar situation as with mayors guiltying town so they could be converted to cult, but that happens anyway an achievement that 90% of the population won't know about won't increase the likelihood of ithappening.

[AppleyNO]

This seems like a Sheriff Achieve.

When you get a guilty, you vote guilty. When you get an innocent, you vote innocent.

[ika]

the only problem i see with it is mafia guiltying on their own for the achevment when it could be 4-3 (them innoing) vs 3-4 (them guiltying for achev)

also what about nutrals like ames, survivor, exe? they dont havae an alignment so if they get voted up what do you put? guilty or inno?

and for exe needing a win if his target is always twon he must vote guilty on it

[Ash]

The Shepherd

For every trial, the person must vote accordingly to the result (if the result was Guilty, then they must have voted Guilty, if it was Innocent, then they must have voted Innocent) and must not abstain. The person must also survive to the end and win.

I don't if it is possible to integrate into the game, but it'd be a nice achievement for the leader of a game.

what result? the shepherd receives results?

in EM there's an achievement called Scumhunter, in which a citizen must vote correctly at all costs. This sounds like it, but 'results' throws me off.

[pat_power]

The goal is to reward the Shepherd of the town; it does not encourage gamethrowing, people can vote innocent and still get it. If a town is brought up to trial and defends him well, the Shepherd will tell to the people to inno him, and if he is a good player, the trialed player will be innocent: the Shepherd will have voted innocent -- and all those that voted guilty or abstained, will not be entitled to be a Sheperd because they lack the leadership skills.
And if the Shepherd gamethrows, he will not win, and thus not get the achievement. If he is mafia and lynches towns without abstaining, he will get the achievement.

[pat_power]

what result? the shepherd receives results?

By result I meant the result of the trial: either GUILTY or INNOCENT. If the Shepherd is a good leader, he'll make town vote like him, so when he votes Guilty, the trialed player is executed, and when he votes Innocent, the trial player is pardonned.
If he abstains, he lacks the leadership skills of the Shepherd.

[pat_power]

And also, wouldn't "sheep" be more appropriate?

The Sheep could be an achievement for a surviving player that lost and that voted just like the Shepherd.

P.S. By "Shepherd" I mean the player that would have earned the The Shepherd achievement.

[Anguss]

Sounds more like a sheep voter... voting with the rest of the sheep voters.

[pat_power]

Yes, he votes with the sheeps, because HE makes the sheeps vote WITH him.

[Jim]

Maybe an achivement for not abstaining at any time in a game.

[pat_power]

No, it's not that. This supposes that a person leading the town will always vote accordingly to the result of the trial because he'll have told the town to vote the way he votes, and since he's the leader, the town will vote like he says.

Well I've seen some games where there could be a Shepherd, and they in no way gamethrew.