Suiciding

[crayon]

I don't have any specific replays to show as an example of this, but I've noticed a tendency lately for players to sneak loaded mafias into their games by having one or more any randoms that are set to automatically be mafia in their save.

In every instance I've encountered this, and been on the over-stacked mafia, I've gone out of my way to suicide and thus almost-but-not-quite even the odds (town still winds up with one less than they should, and they have to waste resources killing me off, but otherwise it gives a huge boost to evening things out).

Statistically, according to research that can be looked through on the wikipedia entry for the game Mafia, the number of mafia should be roughly equal to the square root of the number of town. Since most games are 9 town, 3 mafia, 3 neutrals, this tends to work out.

Is my suiciding considered griefing or gamethrowing in this instance, when the mafia is stacked with four or five members? If the consensus is yes, I'll probably desist.

But I've only been harassed for doing it on one occasion (by the host of the game, who intentionally loaded mafia, then pulled GF, and wanted a perfect game achievement). Most of the time, players thank me. I've been called, "a real bro." I'd be interested to hear some feedback from people to see their opinion on this.

The way I've been seeing it, once a game starts rigged in that way, my pseudo-trolling by suiciding gives the troll-save a nudge towards course correction, and is thus not just an okay thing to do, but a good thing to do.

[Cryptonic]

If you suicide and mafia loses, that's game throwing.
If you suicide and mafia still wins, that's griefing.

[crayon]

So you're saying that once a game is made, even if it has troll settings in the save, you're obligated to play it out to win?

[Cryptonic]

So you're saying that once a game is made, even if it has troll settings in the save, you're obligated to play it out to win?

Yes. However, when it comes to troll saves, no one will bother reporting a player unless it's an extremely close game and then the suicide happens. Not many people will report someone who suicides day 1, unless it is clear they screwed up the game. Also, the Moderation staff (that does reports) is not retarded; they will look at the save and decide whether or not the player had a malicious intent. It IS technically gamethrowing/griefing, but everything is taken in a case-by-case basis.

[crayon]

Yeah, that's more what I was expecting.

I usually try to die day 2 in those instances which is too early to decide the game.

I understand that it technically falls under the auspices of game throwing or griefing, but I had hoped that that's the type of thing that isn't likely to raise a red flag if it DOES somehow get reported.

Thanks!

[Jim]

My question about suicide is why are executioners allowed to suicide right after they get their lynch win and condition says that they don't have to live to the end to win?

[crayon]

Personally, I like continuing to play through after I get the win as executioner. Usually because of how obvious trends in the community tend to be, I can turn around and peg most of the mafia, as executioner, after I've gotten my win, and don't have to fear the night kill. And don't have to worry about losing in general. It's like that freedom-to-troll you have with jester, except even bigger, because you've already won, and you're night immune.

[Cryptonic]

My question about suicide is why are executioners allowed to suicide right after they get their lynch win and condition says that they don't have to live to the end to win?

I take it you're trolling... but, if you're serious, all Neutrals (excluding Cultist) may suicide without risk of punishment because they are not aligned with any team. Being an Executioner that has already won makes no difference.

[Damus_Graves]

Suiciding just to give the other team a shot at winning is a no-no. Play to win even it means crushing the opposition.

[RLVG]

The only times I use suicide :



- To prove my role & LW.
This is quite important when town doesn't believe you and Maf tries to frame you.

- To kill myself as Mafia Killing, if I am continously jailed.
This allows the other mafia to get promoted, shortening amount of clues Invest gets while I'm jailed continously for lack of kills.

- To suicide as an Executioner who won, without requirement to survive.
This allows me to die without becoming a Cultist which would delete my victory as Exe unless I win as a Cultist also.

- To suicide as a Vigilante if I have infinite shots if Witch is into play.



As long there's reason behind it, without gamethrowing or griefing it should be fine.

[creedkingsx]

If you do get reported multiple times, one report would yield no punishment, you can always make an appeal to your case as to why you did it and it'll, the punishment, probably get relieved on the next update with the condition you stop.

[Jim]

I take it you're trolling... but, if you're serious, all Neutrals (excluding Cultist) may suicide without risk of punishment because they are not aligned with any team. Being an Executioner that has already won makes no difference.

No I mean that it wouldn't let me -suicide when I tried, was trying to help people get the suicide hotline achievement.

[Yayap]

How many neutrals are in these games?

a 5 man Mafia team vs 10 town is balanced with only 1 kpn.
a 5 man Mafia with 2 killing neutrals however is not.

[crayon]

5 mafia versus 10 town isn't balanced, at least not statistically, but that's besides the point. It was 5 mafia, 2 neut killing, 1 neut benign.

[Cryptonic]

5 mafia versus 10 town isn't balanced, at least not statistically, but that's besides the point. It was 5 mafia, 2 neut killing, 1 neut benign.

kind of is.
That's only 1 KPN, so town has 5 days of no lynches before mafia gets majority.
but yes, with 2 Killing Neutral and a Benign, town can lose majority in one night.

[creedkingsx]

5 mafia versus 10 town isn't balanced, at least not statistically,

If people learn the word, "Intelligence," it is. you have 5 days to find just one mafia

[MrMostache]

kind of is.
That's only 1 KPN, so town has 5 days of no lynches before mafia gets majority.
but yes, with 2 Killing Neutral and a Benign, town can lose majority in one night.

What if mafia had 4 disguisers?

[maccabbe]

The 5/15 players being mafia with powers is unfair. For instance consider what would happen if mafia had a framer who successfully framed a player n1.
n1: first player dies
d1: second player framed and lynched, (helped by the fact there are 5 mafia voting him up)
n2: third player dies, sheriff/invest is framed
d2: fourth player (sheriff/invest) lynched
n3: fifth player dies
and mafia is 1/2 of all players.