Day 1: First Blood

[FM Gandalf]

I'm amazed at how badly most people are misunderstanding this plan. It's not that hard.

(It's also not worth carrying out. I vote anti-hypo.)

[FM Pinkie Pie]

This all just seems like a ploy to get those with abilities to reveal.

You didn't read my post! I already said scum can never trace tower power without feedback.

[FM Mr T]

You didn't read my post! I already said scum can never trace tower power without feedback.

it seems like a waste of time.

[FM Watson]

You stated it would reducing trolling....I highly doubt that, in fact....this plan is no different from normal everyday mafia games.... No one tells the truth anyway.

So whether this plan goes through or not, nothing will change

[FM Locutus]

it seems like a waste of time.

Haha. Poor Pinkie got shot down just like that.

In an effort to hide the PR's better, we could work in a buddy system where 4 or 5 people would post the same hypo.
The downside to that is PR's would need to hypo earlier to not be forced into a grouping that they don't want, mafia could influence the groups, etc.
I can't think of a way to fix the plan at this moment.
So I'm Anti-Hypo for now until it gets revised. As much as I don't want to lose a PR and not get info, I'd rather that than have them all picked off one by one. Especially considering we have like..8.

[FM Pinkie Pie]

I'm in an anti-hypo time zone. I'll wait till the pro-hypos wake up.

Still don't understand how town power can be exposed.

[FM Watson]

I'm in an anti-hypo time zone. I'll wait till the pro-hypos wake up.

Still don't understand how town power can be exposed.

I would like to see full examples

[FM Michigan J Frog]

The purpose of the hypo plan is to counter the loss of information to town due to the no last wills mechanic. There are pros and cons to this plan that people have obviously brought up, and I guess it just comes down to whether we feel like it's worth the risk of possibly revealing pr's in order to actually make sure we collect the night action results. In practice, I have originally seen it just used to reveal sheriff results, but I figured why not extend it to all PR's.

I personally am pro-plan, in it's most minimal form.

[FM Michigan J Frog]

I'm in an anti-hypo time zone. I'll wait till the pro-hypos wake up.

Still don't understand how town power can be exposed.

I think people are talking about if I hypo claim sheriff with a guilty on say, 5 mafia members in a row, then the mafia know I'm the real sheriff, thus exposing a town power role.

[FM Agahnim]

Post test

[FM King Tut]

Your pharaoh has arrived, peons. Pardon your excellency while I read the 200+ replies.

[FM Agahnim]

Fantastic. I am back.

I am pro-plan only if the others are pro-plan as well.
Its an all or nothing deal

[FM Watson]

Better be quick... 1.2 posts appear for ever minute that passes

[FM Pinkie Pie]

Fantastic. I am back.

I am pro-plan only if the others are pro-plan as well.
Its an all or nothing deal

Wow, the pro-hypos are wavering. What is this?

Your pharaoh has arrived, peons. Pardon your excellency while I read the 200+ replies.

You avatar shows FM Queen Tit.

I think people are talking about if I hypo claim sheriff with a guilty on say, 5 mafia members in a row, then the mafia know I'm the real sheriff, thus exposing a town power role.

What scummy logic is that?

[FM Locutus]

I think people are talking about if I hypo claim sheriff with a guilty on say, 5 mafia members in a row, then the mafia know I'm the real sheriff, thus exposing a town power role.

Yea this. But less excessively.
M.J.Frog and 2 others sheriff hypo Jack Sparrow
The next day we lynch him and he flips mafia.
The mafia can assume that 1 of you may actually be sheriff. And over time this accumulates to them finding out roles.
Especially with escort/jailor claims and even blacksmith claims.
I know it's a stretch, but I'm more worried about the escort/jailor hypos. If we take out those two then I would probably reconsider my vote.

[FM Watson]

It's funny how this whole hypo thing is bullcrap. It's just as good as a random claim like everyone always does....Just now... Your giving it a special name! Congratz! You actually a pre-existing form of scumtell/trolling attribute somemore 'fake' definition.

[FM Jack Sparrow]

Yea this. But less excessively.
M.J.Frog and 2 others sheriff hypo Jack Sparrow
The next day we lynch him and he flips mafia.
The mafia can assume that 1 of you may actually be sheriff. And over time this accumulates to them finding out roles.
Especially with escort/jailor claims and even blacksmith claims.
I know it's a stretch, but I'm more worried about the escort/jailor hypos. If we take out those two then I would probably reconsider my vote.

This setup has a confirmed framer. It might be wise to not try to give them ideas how to use their night actions. Also i suggest every Town PR to not waste their actions on me and check the lurky people.
Business as usual.

[FM Sherlock]

Sherlock is here and accustomed.

Seriously, so many posts in the first 5 hours... I barely managed to catch up.

And Jack Sparrow, for me everyone is guilty - you, those people who are voting you, and those people who don't belive people that are voting Jack Sparrow. The only person I can trust is myself.

[FM Cookie Monster]

Well I'm back
The Hypo thing only have 1 goal IMO
it is basically a more dangerous version of the last wills. Without last wills we can never know if a sheriff dies night 4 and doesn't reveal his info

[FM Cookie Monster]

Where did everybody suddenly go

[FM Michigan J Frog]

Meh, in my reread of the thread, I don't really find jack that scummy anymore.

-unvote

-vote Wolverine

I've just got a bit of a gut scum read on this guy after re-reading the thread. If pressed for reasons why I might be able to come up with something quantifiable.

[FM Watson]

Oh wonderful, Sherlock has arrived. I think I let him handle the reins from here.

[FM King Tut]

Nawt gunna lye. I just skimmed thro the ate pages. Useless shit. Hypo plan is shit. It's like saying "Hear I'm usefool for trying. In reality thiss plan dosnt do shit"

[FM Michigan J Frog]

Nawt gunna lye. I just skimmed thro the ate pages. Useless shit. Hypo plan is shit. It's like saying "Hear I'm usefool for trying. In reality thiss plan dosnt do shit"

Yes, it does. It provides a way for town to uncover "last will" type information from our town pr roles if they were to die before making their grand role claim and reveal. I would hardly say it's useless. Risky, yes. Useless no. There are pros and cons that can be debated, and I would prefer that we do some variation of this plan. However if most people would rather we don't do this, then that's fine... Just don't be sad if some PR dies without telling us any of his night action results.

[FM Agahnim]

Yes, it does. It provides a way for town to uncover "last will" type information from our town pr roles if they were to die before making their grand role claim and reveal. I would hardly say it's useless. Risky, yes. Useless no. There are pros and cons that can be debated, and I would prefer that we do some variation of this plan. However if most people would rather we don't do this, then that's fine... Just don't be sad if some PR dies without telling us any of his night action results.

It only works if we take the claims at face value and even then if the Sheriff/PRs themselves die.

[FM Ceasar]

Okay, time to finaly read those 375 posts

*Breaths deeply, stretches fingers*

[FM Gandalf]

If a sheriff dies w/o leaving a last will, we can look back on previous days and study what players he was casting suspicion on. Same goes for RB's that escorts think were significant, etc.

The point of a discussion-heavy, cit-based game of mafia is to continually reevaluate information, communication, votes, etc. in light of new things that arise later on. If a sheriff dies, we'll learn a lot just from having his role confirmed.

The risk, I think, is nowhere near worth the relatively meager potential reward. (I also think that people are underestimating just how great the risk is. Day 1, mafia can throw out all people who hypo incorrect "guilty" results and focus on the handful who have true positives. Day 2 the mafia can winnow that list down even further... Very, very quickly they'll have a tiny & accurate list of our sheriffs. Have you ever seen the "Akinator" website? It's the same principle.)

[FM Watson]

What is does is it provides a type of last will, but prevents any kind of action from taking place UNTIL the PR is dead...so basically the PR has to kill themselves just to prove a point. What good is that? It's as if your trying to reduce the PR numbers

[FM Cookie Monster]

What is does is it provides a type of last will, but prevents any kind of action from taking place UNTIL the PR is dead...so basically the PR has to kill themselves just to prove a point. What good is that? It's as if your trying to reduce the PR numbers

What makes me afraid most is the OVER COMPLEXITY which means that we might get sidetracked and would just makes it more difficult to scumhunt.

[FM King Tut]

Yes, it does. It provides a way for town to uncover "last will" type information from our town pr roles if they were to die before making their grand role claim and reveal. I would hardly say it's useless. Risky, yes. Useless no. There are pros and cons that can be debated, and I would prefer that we do some variation of this plan. However if most people would rather we don't do this, then that's fine... Just don't be sad if some PR dies without telling us any of his night action results.

So pretty much it's players playing normally without last wills? Sounds liek a grate plan.

[FM Gandalf]

Day 1, mafia can throw out all people who hypo incorrect "guilty" results and focus on the handful who have true positives.

In case it wasn't clear, the mafia can also throw out all hypos that incorrectly call a mafia member innocent. (Obviously they wouldn't know anything about sk, & vice versa, but the point is the mafia is still getting a lot of info from the hypos.)

[FM Michigan J Frog]

What is does is it provides a type of last will, but prevents any kind of action from taking place UNTIL the PR is dead...so basically the PR has to kill themselves just to prove a point. What good is that? It's as if your trying to reduce the PR numbers

No, a PR does not have to die to reveal themselves. They can reveal at any time. I don't see how the proposed plan precludes that at all.

What makes me afraid most is the OVER COMPLEXITY which means that we might get sidetracked and would just makes it more difficult to scumhunt.

Ok, I think this is a huge and legitimate concern that I hadn't considered. I don't really have a good rebuttal to this flaw in the plan.

If the general consensus seems to be that we do not care about last wills, then we should all just plan to adjust our play accordingly. Seems to me though that people here are rather lazy and would rather have solid night action claims generated by the hypo-claims to refer to upon the death of a PR than re-reading the day threads for clues. It's all just a matter of personal opinion.

[FM Michigan J Frog]

In case it wasn't clear, the mafia can also throw out all hypos that incorrectly call a mafia member innocent. (Obviously they wouldn't know anything about sk, & vice versa, but the point is the mafia is still getting a lot of info from the hypos.)

Yeah, this is why you don't hypo JUST cop results. However if we're hypo'ing sheriff claims, doctor claims, and other roles without feedback then even if someone is proven to be NOT sheriff that doesn't mean they are NOT doctor. Just because someone is NOT a sheriff doesn't mean they are NOT a PR with results that they wish to convey.

[FM Pinkie Pie]

How I wish there is a Coroner.

This player is guilty.

-vote FM Yosemite Sam

[FM Pinkie Pie]

Hey J Frog you didn't vote scum Wolverine. You vote tag failed.

[FM Gandalf]

Yeah, this is why you don't hypo JUST cop results. However if we're hypo'ing sheriff claims, doctor claims, and other roles without feedback then even if someone is proven to be NOT sheriff that doesn't mean they are NOT doctor.

I don't understand how this helps. This just means that the mafia gets more information in addition to finding out who our sheriffs are!

[FM Agahnim]

How I wish there is a Coroner.

This player is guilty.

-vote FM Yosemite Sam

An Interesting reveal and made at an interesting time.

[FM Agahnim]

How I wish there is a Coroner.

This player is guilty.

-vote FM Yosemite Sam

An Interesting reveal and made at an interesting time.

[FM Michigan J Frog]

How I wish there is a Coroner.

This player is guilty.

-vote FM Yosemite Sam

woah uh....
is this based on gut feeling or something more?
He hasn't posted yet if I recall correctly. The search function seems to be disabled for this thread so it's kind of debilitating.

[FM Ceasar]

Phew, read most of the thread. However, the only posts which I was obsessing about the entire time were the 2 posts made by Robin Hood during the first 50 posts of the game.

Geez, day one, and we're already pointing fingers. If I didn't know better, I'd say that all of you are scum.

Okay, does no one else see the total extreme scummyness in this post? He is saying that "pointing fingers" (aka: Scumhunting) is only done by scum. He is actively DISCOURAGING scumhunting. Seriously, that is around the scummyest thing I've ever read in an FM game.


Well apparently I wasn't the only person to take note of that post this day....

Look at this scum...(Referring to Robin Hood's post)

Early post made within the first hour of the game. Early accusation against scummyness of Hood. Nothing too hardcore. Now let's see Robin’s response...

You know what? You're really getting on my nerves.

Reactions are very important when it comes to scumhunting, and I believe as far as scummy reactions go, this is top tier. Cluseau believes that Hood’s post is scummy. He accuses Hood as scum. Hood’s response isn’t only a “You’re making me annoyed” post, but borderline threat. If my dad said “You know what? You're really getting on my nerves.” I’d interpret that as a “Shut up or things are going to get ugly”. Therefore, I would say that this is a veiled threat.

The rest of Hoods posts aren’t too interesting. However, despite posting A LOT, he has ultimately contributed next to nothing. Active lurking is when someone posts a lot, but has minimal helpful content in those posts. I would say this is definitely active lurking. Active lurking = very scummy.

I firmly believe that we are more likely to find scum by finding major scummy slip-ups instead of not approving of the overall game-tactics of a player. Hoods first posts are incredibly scummy. His posts since then have contributed little, and seem like those of one who simply wants to blend in. With D1, the amount of information is limited. However, in my opinion Hood is the most scummy player. Therefore…

-vote FM Robin Hood

[FM Jack Sparrow]

An Interesting reveal and made at an interesting time.

I fail to see any reveal of Pinky Pie. Do you have bonus information we don't have?

[FM Gandalf]

Reactions are very important when it comes to scumhunting

-vote FM Robin Hood

No. If I've learned anything from playing FM in the past, it's that things like emotional tone/reactions are terrible indicators of alignment. "Schumhunting" based on that alone distracts the town, kills innocent players, and lets savvy scum manipulate you by playing it cool.

Inspector Cluseau was getting on my nerves early in the thread, too.

We'll learn a lot more by paying attention to things like voting patterns, tunnel vision, and the like. Not issues like getting annoyed at annoying behavior.

[FM Agahnim]

I fail to see any reveal of Pinky Pie. Do you have bonus information we don't have?

He had posted a few times before and yet now reveals a "gut read" on someone who has not posted yet.
And instead of saying why he instead says with conviction that someone is "guilty"

The words "guilty" after it was brought up that sheriffs can use the words guilty/innocent to reveal info is telling.

No. If I've learned anything from playing FM in the past, it's that things like emotional tone/reactions are terrible indicators of alignment. "Schumhunting" based on that alone distracts the town, kills innocent players, and lets savvy scum manipulate you by playing it cool.

Inspector Cluseau was getting on my nerves early in the thread, too.

We'll learn a lot more by paying attention to things like voting patterns, tunnel vision, and the like. Not issues like getting annoyed at annoying behavior.

I agree with this.
Very good post.

[FM Jack Sparrow]

No. If I've learned anything from playing FM in the past, it's that things like emotional tone/reactions are terrible indicators of alignment. "Schumhunting" based on that alone distracts the town, kills innocent players, and lets savvy scum manipulate you by playing it cool.

Inspector Cluseau was getting on my nerves early in the thread, too.

We'll learn a lot more by paying attention to things like voting patterns, tunnel vision, and the like. Not issues like getting annoyed at annoying behavior.

This is partially true. If you have access to meta you can lynch scum with that. The quality of scum plays suffered greatly over the last couple of FM's. Meta dictates me that the players with a low post count are high likely to be scum. All our 1 post wonders are pretty good candidates for pressure votes.

[FM Jack Sparrow]

No. If I've learned anything from playing FM in the past, it's that things like emotional tone/reactions are terrible indicators of alignment. "Schumhunting" based on that alone distracts the town, kills innocent players, and lets savvy scum manipulate you by playing it cool.

Inspector Cluseau was getting on my nerves early in the thread, too.

We'll learn a lot more by paying attention to things like voting patterns, tunnel vision, and the like. Not issues like getting annoyed at annoying behavior.

You know that you just betitled yourself as scum player right? ;)

[FM Agahnim]

-unvote

Jack answer me a couple of questions will you?

What are you vague reads on Frog and Wolverine.

Who would you target tonight, hypothetically.

[FM Gandalf]

[FM Jack Sparrow]

Frog's idea is in its core not a bad idea. It's just too hard to implement it efficiently. Frog clearly invested already more time in this game than most of the other people did. This implies that he has to keep it like that for the rest of the game or people will start to call him out as scum.

I have a strong town read on him. The plan has flaws but in the end he lead to a more cultivated form of dialogue on this Day 1 which is a good thing.

All i remember about Wolverine is his avatar. I have no reads on him. Which doesn't imply anything.


The better question is. Where are those roleblocks?

[FM Agahnim]

Frog's idea is in its core not a bad idea. It's just too hard to implement it efficiently. Frog clearly invested already more time in this game than most of the other people did. This implies that he has to keep it like that for the rest of the game or people will start to call him out as scum.

I have a strong town read on him. The plan has flaws but in the end he lead to a more cultivated form of dialogue on this Day 1 which is a good thing.

All i remember about Wolverine is his avatar. I have no reads on him. Which doesn't imply anything.


The better question is. Where are those roleblocks?

The Rb targets probably are ppl not posted yet/one of them is SK.
It would explain the one death better.
I actually feel the best thing to do is wait for everyone to post before making definitive statements.
Contradicted himself

[FM Agahnim]

You didn't answer my second question last night.