Mafia Theory - Town Gambits

[Yayap]

This week I want to focus on something that I have a split opinion on. Town gambits... Are they good or bad? (Scum gambits will be discussed next week)

So we know there are many different kinds of gambits town can pull off, lies about feedback, lies about other players, lies about ones role, etc.

Tell me what you think about gambits run by town... And if they contributed positively or negatively to the town. Explain.

[Yayap]

Reserved....

[ika]

omg i love gambts

it really does come down to the type of gambit you pull overall though

lies about feedbacks: i can see both ups and downs for this, it does depend on the feedback though.

Times to lie: attack and healed, item gotten, sheriff finds town
things of those sort i could see being hidden for town benifit

bad times to lie: anythign that confrims scum
thses are some that i would find that hinder town more.

arguable ones: roleblocked, witched, doused, posioned
these i find are situational due to the fact that if you dont claim it, it could be interprted as a scum claim to the other scum

lies about other players: the only situation i can see this being benifcal is if you have mod-confirmation about the other player alignment and/or role. Otherwise its can be more hindering.

lying about roles: i find that to be the most fun and also biggest annoyance due to site meta. Theres a rule that exist on another site called "Lynch all liars" and that could be applied here.

Now that being all said, i find that gambits for towns are more risky but also very rewarding as well when done right.

I am personally a big fan of town gambits and such and am not afraid to do them.

I think it comes down to one key factor:

RISK VS REWARD

[Nick]

Someone would like to add: lying in last will.

[Slaol]

#yolo #livefastdieyoung #FMEgypt #riskallrewardnone #gofuckyourselfGreenland #hatethegame

[Vantas]

I can see it being done for reaction testing. And for hiding information that could reveal yourself prematurely. But other than that I'm overall against Town gambits. Town has only the one chat, and if you're messing with the only way of communication, you better have a really good reason or otherwise you're messing with the members of town overall. And causing communication problems and mayhem in the long run seems to help scum.

to be honest, I think what FM Egypt did was idiotic after the fact; he acted confirmed in my opinion after he did that gambit.

[Cryptonic]

Lies about feedback should rarely be done, unless you're going to come clean before the end of the day. Otherwise, it can really hurt your team. But even then...

I got roleblocked!
I'm lookout, he's lying

lynched

[Slaol]

to be honest, I think what FM Egypt did was idiotic after the fact; he acted confirmed in my opinion after he did that gambit.

Not confirmed, I would never suggest a Sheriff claim can be confirmed. Just more along the lines of 'the best around'

[ika]

Town has only the one chat, and if you're messing with the only way of communication, you better have a really good reason or otherwise you're messing with the members of town overall. And causing communication problems and mayhem in the long run seems to help scum.

I beg to differ (masons, arcitect-like roles, jailor, ect).

Those are some other roles that utalize more then on chat for towns at times. What about info that is compiled in there? Being a person who love to stir up mayhem in fms as town is a sight to behold. B/c when you look back scums and experienced players tend to be more collected in the madness.

Its also a great way to as you said, reaction test.

Essentially a gambit is another more elaborate reaction test.

@crypt would you argue that being jailed should be kept hidden if jailor is not set role?

@slaol, im kinda with vat on this one, you acted more or less confrimed, while i agree on the "never confirmed sheriff" (best is persaudo confirmed, unless setup calls for 1 sheriff which then could be agrued "confirmed"), the gambit could of cost you a lot more if wrong. Statically, you had a lesser chance of getting scums with that gambit then town. What were to happen if the person were to flip town?


adding on to quesiton at hand:

do you think persaudo confirmed roles (mansons, jailor, vet, vig, ect) have more leeway when doing gambits or is it all equal regardless of role?

[Cryptonic]

Lying about feedback is different than not revealing your feedback. I wouldn't really care one way or another if someone didn't declare if they got jailed. Revealing helps town form the role list, but Mafia also gets to learn more about the role list.

Roles that can confirm themselves are definitely more able to do gambits without hurting the town, because you can just clear yourself if it backfires.

[Slaol]

you acted more or less confrimed?

No I didn't. All I acted like was someone that was required to talk more due to my claim and spotlight on myself. Actually the only part I said I was confirmed about was that I was in fact FM Egypt. Something the entire game decided to see my proven code and increased activity as me being Vent'd. Really you should all quit Mafia over that part. Believing me as Town? Maybe not. Believe me as Egypt? Only a moron would argue against it.. Entirely unrelated, however, the most seasoned players were damned convinced of what I was- both role and player.

persaudo confirmed

What is this? Someone that persuasively confirms themselves?

the gambit could of cost you a lot more if wrong. Statically, you had a lesser chance of getting scums with that gambit then town.

"could have", "statistically", "lesser chance". All of these would suggest that the actions of that day had anything remotely related to chance and were not just about guaranteed.

What were to happen if the person were to flip town?

I wasn't worried about that because I am good at Mafia and knew he was scum.

[ika]

No I didn't. All I acted like was someone that was required to talk more due to my claim and spotlight on myself. Actually the only part I said I was confirmed about was that I was in fact FM Egypt. Something the entire game decided to see my proven code and increased activity as me being Vent'd. Really you should all quit Mafia over that part. Believing me as Town? Maybe not. Believe me as Egypt? Only a moron would argue against it.. Entirely unrelated, however, the most seasoned players were damned convinced of what I was- both role and player.

a lot of that is very subjective to opinion. You are not taking into account human elements.

You bitched about how you being acitve=vented while not being active=not vented (the ironry is that the reverse was true), you can argue all you like but when you became active, ppl took you less seriously b/c of assumption of venting. Really all you can do is scream "player fault" but at same sens you also have to blame yourself for assuming that you would not get that backlash

What is this? Someone that persuasively confirms themselves?

near-confirmed (basicly a step away from being mod confirmed)

"could have", "statistically", "lesser chance". All of these would suggest that the actions of that day had anything remotely related to chance and were not just about guaranteed.

agian your ignoring the fact that there is possiblity that he could flip town. Hypoteticly if he flips town what then?

I wasn't worried about that because I am good at Mafia and knew he was scum.

reality is this: your just another player on the site, the definition of a "good" player is subject to opinions

[Slaol]

And what of the fact that I solved my code? Lol

You didn't get it lol.

Every game I've played as town I've found 1+ scum. I hope you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point our I've run out of words for you

[ika]

And what of the fact that I solved my code? Lol

You didn't get it lol.

Every game I've played as town I've found 1+ scum. I hope you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point our I've run out of words for you

I'm merly stating your thinking is flawed and is subject to biased. Unless if you can accept reality and see that you are just another player, you will always have this with me.

You found mafia though a role and feedback, good players find it though associations and words (orpz as vig, orpz as sokka, orpz in lover) thats the true skill of players.

[Slaol]

My thinking is biased, not flawed lol.

I actually didn't use real feedback. That was a lie, I found him through reads and a gambit. I did also find Australia on night 1, but that became moot immediately. As well in the other games I was citizen, so I really have no idea what games you think you have read.

Yes Orpz is a very good player although I don't much care to mention S-FMs. Only anon games really truly matter to me exactly. S/P-FMs are more just fun and to test play style/mechanics as opposed to actual games.

Let us not continue this in thread as we are heavily off point now.

[louiswill]

When I'm town, I gambit more obviously than I would as mafia

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[Cryptonic]

When I'm town, I gambit more obviously than I would as mafia

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Have you ever been Mafia?

But anyways, that's dumb. You should play exactly the same way as every single role in the game (depending on the setup, obviously), or else you'll develop meta and fail @ life.

[louiswill]

I'm against clear cut mafia behavior because it is pro mafia in any balanced setup. Because, Nash equilibrium.

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[Orpz]

Love gambits, hate doing them though I definitely do on games when the situation calls (me being discredited to hell, etc)

[louiswill]

Well organized and informed group out perform blind majority, because with given strategy the group can always find its own best strategy. Organized crime almost always fail at my lynch because Lynch me a controversial player is their dominant strategy. The smart part is that I'm the only one do so.

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[louiswill]

When there are too many town gambit already then I'm do what town do as your method, otherwise I would almost never speak good luck.

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[louiswill]

I was a tailor in one of the mafia game.

And in one of pre app mafia

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[Nick]

IMO Egypt didn't really push for Greenland lynch. Legit gambit as any role.