S-FM 186: Firebringer's Improvised Game

[Spearheading Female Tank]

Lol at the mistake. I'm wondering why the lynch is set though, when it was L-1 technically.
If mistakes like these allows one to become a mayor, this is gamebreaking.

The lynch isn't set. They used an external account to vote, so it was effectively L-1.
Let's keep playing.

[Spearheading Female Tank]

Notice how nobody has voted TDL again since that happened

-vote TheDarkestLight

He's online and ttypining a reply. My vote won't change that.

Mikecall was lurking, then I voted him and he vanished.

[RLVG]

Wow, had a long ass post and then I see that I get lynched. Gimmie a bit to retype a shorter version.

STILL WAITING ON THIS OMG
This is TDL being a jerk lol.

[Calette]

He gave up

[TheDarkestLight]

Yay, I got lynched.

Anyways, let me address the accusations and then the people responsible.

1: My town read on Empathy was based on typical plays from other sites, and considering the two in the hydra, I assumed it was a normal town move, as I know places where it is. It was a likely conclusion, and I don't see the logic in thinking I have more info, but it was me simply saying how I saw them at the time.

2; Meta! The best reason to lynch someone. Apparently I only contribute when I'm scum, well, using meta to combat meta... In FM XVIII I was FM Morgan and was found to be a very town player until I was converted. In FM XX I was FM Jace Beleran and was pro-town until I got converted (I'm bad with conversions). And then in FM Book Three I was FM Zack, the Avatar, and I was pro-town until I died, although in the latter I was in my "day one sucks" stage.

Now for the people.

Tank: I didn't hard scum read this person, I just called him out on having weak reasons as to why Empathy is scum, and his reasoning only followed the meta part, the opposite of what Sen says he would do.

Calette: More meta, I can meta too. Both sides aren't as aggressive as normal. What, you wanna not stick out as much?

Hell Frog: You've done shit really, other than brag about your skill, try to give others "strategies" and give weak reasons as to why a specific person is scum.

SW: Splitting this hydra, this person just threw a vote at me, putting me to L-1 before I even get a chance to respond to the train. Scummy.

Ika: Oh hammer. Typical ika fast hammering. Doesn't make it less scummy.

Empathy: Both heads were super scummy, gonna need to reread older posts when I get home.

[TheDarkestLight]

He gave up

I'm at school, so I'm slow.

[Nicolas Cage]

Discuss

We got a message some minutes ago, at hh:15. A Justine's Beaver video, to be exact.

Seeing how it was an Upick setup, this could mean anything; from a Jester, to being "marked" for death, to a random townie who gets to send messages during the day.
Just leaving it out there for future analysis.

I agree. Given the lack of reasoning the slot provides I would not be opposed to a lynch on the slot on the basis that it looks like either unproductive town or scum right now. The game is small and due to players picking their own roles we will not be able to afford many policy lynches if any this game. I think its likely that the neutral picked some kind of communication role to align himself with the mafia block. I would probably look for that policy lynch either today or tomorrow if TDL flips town. If TDL is mafia I would consider that slot very likely town.

[Nicolas Cage]

-vote Hell Frog

[RLVG]

Now for the people.

Tank: I didn't hard scum read this person, I just called him out on having weak reasons as to why Empathy is scum, and his reasoning only followed the meta part, the opposite of what Sen says he would do.

Calette: More meta, I can meta too. Both sides aren't as aggressive as normal. What, you wanna not stick out as much?

Hell Frog: You've done shit really, other than brag about your skill, try to give others "strategies" and give weak reasons as to why a specific person is scum.

SW: Splitting this hydra, this person just threw a vote at me, putting me to L-1 before I even get a chance to respond to the train. Scummy.

Ika: Oh hammer. Typical ika fast hammering. Doesn't make it less scummy.

Empathy: Both heads were super scummy, gonna need to reread older posts when I get home.

Where am I and Nic Cage?

[Calette]

Discuss

I can't speak for the Hell Frog but given that was stated after the message was given to the tank, it doesn't seem as damning as if the message was mentioned after this.

But something to keep an eye on.

[Calette]

Where am I and Nic Cage?

Your votes weren't on TDL

[Spearheading Female Tank]

Tank: I didn't hard scum read this person, I just called him out on having weak reasons as to why Empathy is scum, and his reasoning only followed the meta part, the opposite of what Sen says he would do.

GameFreak was the one on this account when you got voted.

Also, you haven't been lynched. A random account that is not part of the game came and hammered you.

[Spearheading Female Tank]

And yeah, Hell Frog is very likely scum. I'm glad others are noticing it as well.

Also, regarding hammers, be careful with placing people on L-1. This shouldn't be an issue, but both persons behind the Empathy account are known for quickhammering and ending days with 20+ of discussion left.

[Nicolas Cage]

I can't speak for the Hell Frog but given that was stated after the message was given to the tank, it doesn't seem as damning as if the message was mentioned after this.

But something to keep an eye on.

Explain in more detail in why it makes such a big difference that the posts are in that order

[Hell Frog]

And yeah, Hell Frog is very likely scum. I'm glad others are noticing it as well.

Also, regarding hammers, be careful with placing people on L-1. This shouldn't be an issue, but both persons behind the Empathy account are known for quickhammering and ending days with 20+ of discussion left.

I just came back. I'll reread, and I seriously hope you're either lynchbaiting or giving me cover.

[Nicolas Cage]

OH GLORIOUS AND MIGHTY HELL FROG.
PLEASE FORGIVE THIS MORTAL
HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND HIS DOINGS.
MAY ANYONE WHO CONFRONTS YOU BE SMITED

[Hell Frog]

Ok, caught up.
I still feel that Hell Frog is being too useless when compared to their usual playstyle; both of them tend to do a lot of stuff when Town, almost trying to lead the day. Hell, Helz has been carrying the M-FM by himself since Toadette left. It's at least weird that the account hasn't done much of use even when having two strong Town players behind.

I also agree with the sentiment that that "neutral is siding with scum" comment triggered all of the alarms in the world.

---

Also, lol at "Sorry for using the C-word, YOU FUCKING BITCH!"

---

Since TDL is online and already typing a reply, I'll just leave this here:

-vote Funcall

Yeah, your basis is related to meta and factually incorrect.

I've V cleared 3 players:
Calette
Empathy
RLVG

I've W pushed:
TDL
Nicolas Cage

I like your reads and engagement, I'm totally down for your pillow pushing. Lol.

[Hell Frog]

OH GLORIOUS AND MIGHTY HELL FROG.
PLEASE FORGIVE THIS MORTAL
HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND HIS DOINGS.
MAY ANYONE WHO CONFRONTS YOU BE SMITED

Lol, did you seriously just OMGUS vote me? :-P LOLOLOL

[Nicolas Cage]

Lol, did you seriously just OMGUS vote me? :-P LOLOLOL

Totally. You quiver in your high heels.

[Hell Frog]

Stop the personal insults right now. Only warning.

Feel free to personally insult me - it's part of the game if you choose to play it that way.

It's sometimes effective, but it's largely lolzorly

[Spearheading Female Tank]

I just came back. I'll reread, and I seriously hope you're either lynchbaiting or giving me cover.

- Started by making a train on the Village Edwin.

- Haven't really contributed original thoughts nor pushed the discussion forwards, while both players in the account tend to be Town leader when you are Town.

- Have made two comments about the Town being able to lose very easily (or something like that), and then the one about the neutral siding with the scum. This serves no purpose other than moral damage to the Town.

- Have been ignoring questions and lurking. This could be due to lack of time or whatever, but it's important when cosidered along with the rest of the information.

- Lots of fluffs and offtopic posts well after the shitposting phase was over.

- In the sandwich game you (Frog) were scum, and didn't contribute a thing because "scum has no reason to help the Town win".

I have been pointing these things out for a while now, and you decide to address them only now that others started catching up on that.

[Nicolas Cage]

Feel free to personally insult me - it's part of the game if you choose to play it that way.

It's sometimes effective, but it's largely lolzorly

You're so ugly. I'd cum on your face just to cover it up!

[Hell Frog]

Totally. You quiver in your high heels.

I called you out for not taking positions wrt TDL and Empathy. Your tone read reeks of wolf when you're stumped. Your only thought was to go after the person who attacked you. I haven't seen any wolf hunting or villager clearing from you. You're not game solvey. You overreact with a vote when pressured. I'm pretty sure I listed common knowledge wolf hunting.

I was really happy with RLVG putting the pressure on you by locking the votes to 4-4, especially since you've been so under the radar and still refuse to take a stance on the center field. I'm still catching up, looking forward to your reads.

[TheDarkestLight]

Yeah, your basis is related to meta and factually incorrect.

I've V cleared 3 players:
Calette
Empathy
RLVG

I've W pushed:
TDL
Nicolas Cage

I like your reads and engagement, I'm totally down for your pillow pushing. Lol.

So, when I clear Empathy it's scummy and I know things that I shouldn't, but when you clear them and two others it's fine. Nice scummy double standard.

[Hell Frog]

Notice how nobody has voted TDL again since that happened

-vote TheDarkestLight

TDL said he had a post incoming. Was prodding Nicolas Cage to take the position he was locked into in the meantime, low pressure reads.

[Spearheading Female Tank]

Feel free to personally insult me - it's part of the game if you choose to play it that way.

It's sometimes effective, but it's largely lolzorly

I like to draw a line between game-related insults; "Are you retarded? Your "logic" makes no fucking sense. Someone vigkill this dimwit, please", and personal insults that have nothing to do with the game. Sure, I cross the line sometimes, but when half of your posts are calling others cunts and bitches, that does nothing but turn the game into an unpleasant experience.

[Hell Frog]

So, when I clear Empathy it's scummy and I know things that I shouldn't, but when you clear them and two others it's fine. Nice scummy double standard.

Frog head here - my reads

[TheDarkestLight]

GameFreak was the one on this account when you got voted.

Also, you haven't been lynched. A random account that is not part of the game came and hammered you.

Not used to heads yet.

I know I wasn't, but votes were put down that resulted in said voting mechanics stating I was dead.

Also, it gives a unique opportunity to see votes during a Lynch for analysis when no one was really lynched.

[Hell Frog]

I like to draw a line between game-related insults; "Are you retarded? Your "logic" makes no fucking sense. Someone vigkill this dimwit, please", and personal insults that have nothing to do with the game. Sure, I cross the line sometimes, but when half of your posts are calling others cunts and bitches, that does nothing but turn the game into an unpleasant experience.

calling vig shots D1 is lolz

One of the best sites insults like none other and are able to work effectively because their senses are numbed to raw information between the insults. But I have to agree with you here, "excessive" is a line that's met when it's personal and beyond the game.

Having said that

Spoiler : Let's lighten the mood :

[TheDarkestLight]

Frog head here - my reads

Still same body, same role. Like I said hydras have to hold their partners baggage.

So, if I do it I'm scummy, guess you are too since your partner did too huh?

[Hell Frog]

Not used to heads yet.

I know I wasn't, but votes were put down that resulted in said voting mechanics stating I was dead.

Also, it gives a unique opportunity to see votes during a Lynch for analysis when no one was really lynched.

TDL - I haven't caught up yet, but what mechanically happened was pretty badass. The deciding vote was low impact non-voter Nicolas Cage with 2 wagons. That's a mechanical wet dream whatever alignment you flip. I'm still catching up, but according to Helz notes we're pressuring you into game solving. It's a win-win.

[Nicolas Cage]

I called you out for not taking positions wrt TDL and Empathy. Your tone read reeks of wolf when you're stumped. Your only thought was to go after the person who attacked you. I haven't seen any wolf hunting or villager clearing from you. You're not game solvey. You overreact with a vote when pressured. I'm pretty sure I listed common knowledge wolf hunting.

I was really happy with RLVG putting the pressure on you by locking the votes to 4-4, especially since you've been so under the radar and still refuse to take a stance on the center field. I'm still catching up, looking forward to your reads.

Position with Empathy was already stated, multiple times. You choose to ignore this.
I left TDL with mikeU, he has been busy with work. So it didn't get done. By the time I was awake and ready to get involved again, everyone was just awaiting TDL to post. He was already pressured and I felt that any opinion I have on him can wait.
My thought was to drag up the exact same thing I dragged up before, that you refused to acknowledge, only this time put in the connecting post and a vote with it.
No, you haven't seen town clearing or wolf hunting from me yet, you rarely do early game with me.

[Hell Frog]

Still same body, same role. Like I said hydras have to hold their partners baggage.

So, if I do it I'm scummy, guess you are too since your partner did too huh?

I'm confident Helz and I identify players the same way analytically D1.

[Hell Frog]

Position with Empathy was already stated, multiple times. You choose to ignore this.
I left TDL with mikeU, he has been busy with work. So it didn't get done. By the time I was awake and ready to get involved again, everyone was just awaiting TDL to post. He was already pressured and I felt that any opinion I have on him can wait.
My thought was to drag up the exact same thing I dragged up before, that you refused to acknowledge, only this time put in the connecting post and a vote with it.
No, you haven't seen town clearing or wolf hunting from me yet, you rarely do early game with me.

ugh aids.

I'll draw up some mechanical resolves and players reads lists for you.

[Hell Frog]

Yay, I got lynched.

Anyways, let me address the accusations and then the people responsible.

1: My town read on Empathy was based on typical plays from other sites, and considering the two in the hydra, I assumed it was a normal town move, as I know places where it is. It was a likely conclusion, and I don't see the logic in thinking I have more info, but it was me simply saying how I saw them at the time.

2; Meta! The best reason to lynch someone. Apparently I only contribute when I'm scum, well, using meta to combat meta... In FM XVIII I was FM Morgan and was found to be a very town player until I was converted. In FM XX I was FM Jace Beleran and was pro-town until I got converted (I'm bad with conversions). And then in FM Book Three I was FM Zack, the Avatar, and I was pro-town until I died, although in the latter I was in my "day one sucks" stage.

Now for the people.

Tank: I didn't hard scum read this person, I just called him out on having weak reasons as to why Empathy is scum, and his reasoning only followed the meta part, the opposite of what Sen says he would do.

Calette: More meta, I can meta too. Both sides aren't as aggressive as normal. What, you wanna not stick out as much?

Hell Frog: You've done shit really, other than brag about your skill, try to give others "strategies" and give weak reasons as to why a specific person is scum.

SW: Splitting this hydra, this person just threw a vote at me, putting me to L-1 before I even get a chance to respond to the train. Scummy.

Ika: Oh hammer. Typical ika fast hammering. Doesn't make it less scummy.

Empathy: Both heads were super scummy, gonna need to reread older posts when I get home.

Even though it was a preconceived post, I can understand your lines of logic.

What are your thoughts on RLVG and Nicolas Cage?

[TheDarkestLight]

I'm confident Helz and I identify players the same way analytically D1.

And he did the same thing that you called me scummy for. So tell me, does that make you scummy?

[Hell Frog]

Discuss

I'd much rather you discuss it so we have something to engage in.

[Hell Frog]

And he did the same thing that you called me scummy for. So tell me, does that make you scummy?

Expand on this

[Spearheading Female Tank]

Expand on this

You* argued that TDL was scummy because of townreading Empathy, since scum will often townread people because... well, they know who the scum are, ergo everybody else but the neutral are Town, so it's easy to townread someone and later be confirmed.

Then you proceeded to do that same thing with 3 players.

*I'm using "you" here as "you, Hell Frog", not the individual heads.

[TheDarkestLight]

You* argued that TDL was scummy because of townreading Empathy, since scum will often townread people because... well, they know who the scum are, ergo everybody else but the neutral are Town, so it's easy to townread someone and later be confirmed.

Then you proceeded to do that same thing with 3 players.

*I'm using "you" here as "you, Hell Frog", not the individual heads.

Pretty much this.

[Nicolas Cage]

I'd much rather you discuss it so we have something to engage in.

I coloured it in for you.

Is this how you play scum, just tell other people to do stuff?

[Hell Frog]

Helz here. I have hardly posted at all this game. I still have not seen my earlier messages "Approved by a moderator". Pretty much my only contribution so far has been starting the TDL train. I will step it up a bit but I do have class in 30. Afterwards I should be able to crunch down on this. But this morning when I saw TDL was lynched based only on that reasoning with an entire day left I was moderately pissed about it. I pointed out a small tell on TDL. That was not some damning lynchworthy post. We need to tighten it up a good bit as a whole.

God this site has got to be the shittiest site for treatment of new players I've ever seen.

Straight up, I don't want to hear this. Its like you expect people to walk on glass around you or something. Quit making every post out to be some personally directed attack on you bro. Keep shit game related.

[Hell Frog]

Nicolas Cage is kind of bothering me. I see a lot of effort to paint my slot as scummy as opposed to actually scum hunting. Its like he is trying to lurk outside of the spotlight but pile on to situations to get a lynch. I need to focus on TDL's response but damn I do not care for his plays so far today. Looks like a lot of discrediting and mud slinging with very little analysis.

[Nicolas Cage]

Nicolas Cage is kind of bothering me. I see a lot of effort to paint my slot as scummy as opposed to actually scum hunting. Its like he is trying to lurk outside of the spotlight but pile on to situations to get a lynch. I need to focus on TDL's response but damn I do not care for his plays so far today. Looks like a lot of discrediting and mud slinging with very little analysis.

I am not a demon. I am a lizard, a shark, a heat-seeking panther. I want to be Bob Denver on acid playing the accordion.

[Hell Frog]

Yay, I got lynched.

Anyways, let me address the accusations and then the people responsible.

1: My town read on Empathy was based on typical plays from other sites, and considering the two in the hydra, I assumed it was a normal town move, as I know places where it is. It was a likely conclusion, and I don't see the logic in thinking I have more info, but it was me simply saying how I saw them at the time.

2; Meta! The best reason to lynch someone. Apparently I only contribute when I'm scum, well, using meta to combat meta... In FM XVIII I was FM Morgan and was found to be a very town player until I was converted. In FM XX I was FM Jace Beleran and was pro-town until I got converted (I'm bad with conversions). And then in FM Book Three I was FM Zack, the Avatar, and I was pro-town until I died, although in the latter I was in my "day one sucks" stage.

Well I do not use meta. I hate meta reads and put no value in them. My poke at you was based off objective reasoning and regardless of what slot posted it I would have read it exactly as I stated earlier. Let me recap it.

This is one of the other posts I was referencing. He flat out says he does not 'scum read' this detail but when you look at his tone at this point in time its pushing to town read the slot. His tone of town reading Empathy does not fit with his given reasoning to do so. I see his posts as providing evidence of a null read and arguably 'not scum read' but not a town read. Its possible that he is speaking from an informed perspective trying to buddy up and bid for loyalty.

This is talking about the inconsistent tone I read. Your saying that your read is based on meta (now) but at this point in time you pretty much said you town read the slot, then backtracked and referenced reasoning that made no sense. I knew that it could not be your real reasoning and my question now is if you are adjusting your 'reasoning' to project a town perspective because of the pressure you received or if you just unintentionally misrepresented your reasoning. This is an objective scum tell that I go into more in this post.

The reason that I read it as scummy is that it reflects an informed perspective. Team scum often give out town reads easily because they know the player is town and it gives them leverage with that slot. It was a particularly opportunistic move in this situation. My issue is how the stated reasoning seems out of line with the end conclusion. It leads me to believe that TLD is operating off unspoken information which is why I am working to draw attention to his slot.

Hopefully this clarifys my push to shift focus onto you. Its not that you town read Empathy. Its how you spoke about your reasoning on the player and the timing of it.

[Hell Frog]

I am not a demon. I am a lizard, a shark, a heat-seeking panther. I want to be Bob Denver on acid playing the accordion.

Any chance you could actually respond to my post there? Its cute and all but I would like to have a real conversation with you as opposed to D1 trolling.

[ika]

I like how people are lecturing us on how to play. It only justifies us even more.

[TheDarkestLight]

Nicolas Cage is kind of bothering me. I see a lot of effort to paint my slot as scummy as opposed to actually scum hunting. Its like he is trying to lurk outside of the spotlight but pile on to situations to get a lynch. I need to focus on TDL's response but damn I do not care for his plays so far today. Looks like a lot of discrediting and mud slinging with very little analysis.

More analysis went into my responses than your accusation of me.

[Hell Frog]

You* argued that TDL was scummy because of townreading Empathy, since scum will often townread people because... well, they know who the scum are, ergo everybody else but the neutral are Town, so it's easy to townread someone and later be confirmed.

Then you proceeded to do that same thing with 3 players.

*I'm using "you" here as "you, Hell Frog", not the individual heads.

You will have to explain. I just kinda skimmed the thread but I did not really take note of my other head using the same logic 3 more times after my push on TDL

[Hell Frog]

I like how people are lecturing us on how to play. It only justifies us even more.

I am not telling you how to play. I am just saying keep it slot directed and in game. You are accusing people of holding bias against you and then turning around and directly personally attacking them. I understand that its happened before on this site but I don't think thats whats going on now. Try to relax a bit. Stop carrying issues out of the game to a personal level and just play.