S-FM 353: Death Nominations

[Wiml]

For players who know the either / both heads of the hydra from other games, are they the sort who you'd consider 0-posting to be wolf AI for or would you consider it genuinely NAI for them as individuals?

[Wiml]

Idk why ur focusing on this so much

Anyway ur definitely not w/w with richard due to this

Was ISOing CRich in the background at the time and trying to get a better read on him.

To a lesser extent, I was also trying to strengthen my read on you since it's admittedly pretty stale at this point.

[scumbot5679]

That's good to know. Something something alt account shouldn't be allowed, because they're scummy by tone. That's from someone I've played with.

@scumbot5679 now that mm flipped town, where do u go next? Do u have a potential wolfteam of 3?

I think Vittae is scum b/c dude was badgering me on PAGE 2 about reads. That's like classic scum.

I'm pretty wary of Martin b/c his "reasons" to scum read me were trash. I do like that he kinda backed off at me toward EOD and I think you could really look at that as town that's just reevaluating but on the other side of the coin, he's scum that is trying to deescalate the situation and all my flip does is put him in the nomination bracket and shines a spotlight on him. Would he really be willing to flip me at the expense of being on the chopping block d2 when he could have just let me tunnel MM and avoid responsibility?

but those were the 2 off the top of my head as varcon/lol/whoever else is just a blur so im going to iso them and get back to you.

[Wiml]

I think Vittae is scum b/c dude was badgering me on PAGE 2 about reads. That's like classic scum.

This is... blatantly false and seems like an extremely disingenuous approach towards me.

I was asking questions related to your reads three pages into the game (not two, I checked) but more importantly by the time the game was onto page three am I was asking these questions it was almost half way into the day phase and at a point where several players had posted more than enough for you to at least have made a stance on. It's difficult to excuse not having readable content by that point in the game and when I questioned you on it, you fully ignored me.

But let's assume that you were right for a second: can you talk me through why me asking you for reads prematurely would be "classic scum" to begin with in your eyes? I fail to see what you're arguing would be wolf indicative here even if the rest of you were saying was factual.

[Wiml]

At best, I think it's a pretty disingenuous twisting of the truth to try to argue that pushing for content half way into a day phase is premature by writing it in such a way that it seems like I was asking you right at the start of the game.

We both know that when we talked during D1 it was nowhere near the start of the game any more.

[Wiml]

And that's with giving you the benefit of the doubt over saying the wrong page number to begin with.

[tutuu]

my head kinda woozy

scumbot / vittae not w/w i think

[Wiml]

@lol what are your reads outside of Tutuu/baker/me?

[Wiml]

And what specifically do you remember of me / my play?

I'm finding it difficult to believe that you genuinely don't remember anything about me as a player given that I'm sure we've played several games together in the past and I seem to remember you just fine - especially since I'm not exactly an inactive player myself.

[scumbot5679]

for such an untrue accusation you sure seem upset about it.

[Wiml]

for such an untrue accusation you sure seem upset about it.

The farthest thing from upset, I'm looking forward to discussing this actually.

I'd appreciate if you answered what I'm asking you now though since those questions weren't meant rhetorically.

[Wiml]

This is now the second time that I've expressed concern with Scumbot's posting and they've responded by completely disregarding what I'm asking and just throwing shade at the question instead.

[tutuu]

my head kinda woozy

scumbot / vittae not w/w i think

yeah definitely not w/w lol

[Wiml]

Not really much more to add on lol post-ISO.

I'll wait and see what he responds when he returns.

[Wiml]

I need a break myself tbh.

[tutuu]

us on our way to mischop 3 more villagers in a row and lose the game

[ikarusdk]

Ngl, I feel scumbot v vittae doesn't feel t/t. Kinda wish MM included one of their names in his nominations.

[Wiml]

Ngl, I feel scumbot v vittae doesn't feel t/t. Kinda wish MM included one of their names in his nominations.

I've been sticking around waiting for him to reply to me but the fact that I've all but caught him in a lie and then his response to that is just to peace out seems pretty outing to me.

[Wiml]

And it's not the first time this happened, it's just that this time in particular is pretty egregious.

[ikarusdk]

@ikarusdk u still think im mafia? if ur town its cool, shit happens, i just wanna say that i dont think i can get any townier than this, i think this is my peak xD. So like, sorry to disappoint in future games lmao u'd have to deal w even scummier tutuu

Sorry i wasnt at EoD, I was sleeping. Im also more engaged irl activity more so than I thought I was so I need to have a proper assessment in my suspicions,

But the bottom line is, I am going to act as if everyone is better than me and capable of influencing my reads.

I feel wary about Vittae slot not because of his seemingly fluent approach to the game, but the way he addressed me specifically, because from previous game with Vittae, he was much more reserved about my slot eventhough he was aware of my experience level at the time.

I don't know if tutuu and Vittae are in the same team anymore because of circumstances around EoD casuing Mm To be lynched, perhaps if they were team, it could've been all theatrical, but I'm inclined to think it was more of a circumstantial thing between t/t or t/w players.

Having said this, I am still reserved about tutuu seemingly easily being influenced by Vittae because I don't understand how you could sheep someone in FM that hard on day 1, but I'm going to put that aside for now.

[ikarusdk]

I'll do my due and ISO scumbot see if anything flags but only after I ISO the nominated players first

[ikarusdk]

I should let you know that I'm focusing on upping my scumhunting more so than finding towns this game.

You can blame Nancy

[ikarusdk]

But from my brief ISO, I think I'll be voting between Richard and LoL, although I really want Varcron to be freed up and post more because I can't read him yet based on what he's got.

[Wiml]

And it's not the first time this happened, it's just that this time in particular is pretty egregious.

Egregious to the degree that it's really difficult to justify this sort of response coming from a villager.

If somebody all but calls you, as a villager, what basically amounts to being a liar then you would expect the accused player to absolutely want to prove / clear themselves telling the truth and combat the logic of the person calling them a liar. Obviously, people as a rule won't sit and tolerate being called dishonest if they can immediately prove their honesty through combating whatever logic is being used to call them dishonest (logic which would inherently be faulty were scumbot in this situation genuinely being honest) and so when a person displays no intention of combating such logic it tends to be a pretty clear indicator of dishonesty and lacking a good response to whatever they're accused of.

Responding with what basically amounts to "you mad bro?" and then leaving is absolutely not a genuine nor a towny response to being accused of dishonesty.

[ikarusdk]

The only wolf equity I can think of after ISOing Varcron is that he hasn't posted anything of quality or solve you know..

He's presented his basic meta read on me and MM and that is all so far.

Super tinfoil hat me would explore varcron suggesting a shade on MM and me after tutuu asked who is mafia, and go super uber tinfoil me would ask if it is a coincidence MM was voted out the end but it was all before I properly participated and before we knew EOD was going to extend so tinfoil hat crumpled.

[ikarusdk]

baker seems town that's all i got and agree with the masses

i caught some kinda flu yesterday hoping its not covid but there's about 80% chance it is

eating some limes with sugar then i'll sleep hopefully i can sleep it off a little and feel better

i will say though barker was really excited about being mafia with me too so there's an offchance baker just loves being mafia with everyone and will be excited regardless who he's with

The only reason I'd be voting lol for is for above quotes. Similar reasons as why I was sussing tutuu.

Baker was really excited about being mafia with me, don't really stick with me well but that could be I'm reading things wrong and they might have phrased it wrong.

[Wiml]

Sorry i wasnt at EoD, I was sleeping. Im also more engaged irl activity more so than I thought I was so I need to have a proper assessment in my suspicions,

But the bottom line is, I am going to act as if everyone is better than me and capable of influencing my reads.

I feel wary about Vittae slot not because of his seemingly fluent approach to the game, but the way he addressed me specifically, because from previous game with Vittae, he was much more reserved about my slot eventhough he was aware of my experience level at the time.

I don't know if tutuu and Vittae are in the same team anymore because of circumstances around EoD casuing Mm To be lynched, perhaps if they were team, it could've been all theatrical, but I'm inclined to think it was more of a circumstantial thing between t/t or t/w players.

Having said this, I am still reserved about tutuu seemingly easily being influenced by Vittae because I don't understand how you could sheep someone in FM that hard on day 1, but I'm going to put that aside for now.

My hesitance on clearing you last time was largely due to 1. Not knowing you or your mindset at all and 2. Not having any meta on your wolf range (which I now have from seeing you wolf in real time in detail in KRC).

I did end up strongly townreading you early on and then clearing you that game without a shadow of a doubt, it just took until N3 or so for the latter to happen.

[Wiml]

Oh and part way through that game I learned that you were from SC2 arcade and not just totally brand new to FM and that also caused a brief read reset on you.

[Wiml]

*not just brand new to mafia on the whole, just FM

[Wiml]

But from my brief ISO, I think I'll be voting between Richard and LoL, although I really want Varcron to be freed up and post more because I can't read him yet based on what he's got.

Yeah, I'm hoping the same wrt Varcron.

I have issues with some of his posts but I'd be lying if I said I felt anything I had there was all that strong.

[Wiml]

I should let you know that I'm focusing on upping my scumhunting more so than finding towns this game.

You can blame Nancy

Is Nancy a high WIM wolf? Do you have thoughts on her 0 posting in this game?

[Wiml]

I'm down for giving Varcron some space and time to solve still.

-vote lol

[Wiml]

That's not me giving him a day pass though.

[Wiml]

Just before I leave for real quick reminder that absolutely everyone should have a vote down at EoD and anyone who doesn't should be encouraged to do so or face a lot of scrutiny.

[Wiml]

Don't let people get away with not committing while I'm asleep.

[ikarusdk]

Is Nancy a high WIM wolf? Do you have thoughts on her 0 posting in this game?

In games with Nancy, she was quite talkative and aggressive in nature, haven't had any chance to play with her where she posted nothing. It could be that she just forgot the game started.

I blame Nancy because she fooled another player in f3, and she had a solid town game there (last game) although I think I'm prepared to read her better because I did end up correctly voting her in f3, just couldn't convince the other town since we were basically at each others throats all game.

[tutuu]

Sorry i wasnt at EoD, I was sleeping. Im also more engaged irl activity more so than I thought I was so I need to have a proper assessment in my suspicions,

But the bottom line is, I am going to act as if everyone is better than me and capable of influencing my reads.

I feel wary about Vittae slot not because of his seemingly fluent approach to the game, but the way he addressed me specifically, because from previous game with Vittae, he was much more reserved about my slot eventhough he was aware of my experience level at the time.

I don't know if tutuu and Vittae are in the same team anymore because of circumstances around EoD casuing Mm To be lynched, perhaps if they were team, it could've been all theatrical, but I'm inclined to think it was more of a circumstantial thing between t/t or t/w players.

Having said this, I am still reserved about tutuu seemingly easily being influenced by Vittae because I don't understand how you could sheep someone in FM that hard on day 1, but I'm going to put that aside for now.

some posts ive made previously as town on day 1s (in multiple games):

[spoiler]





[/spoiler]

also a big readlist i had in another game:

https://www.fortressoflies.com/t/an-...read/5604/2922

thats just how i play, i focus on finding a towncore and working with it. im not good at chopping wolves early and by myself, i need at least 1 wolf flip to get me going. until then i support who i believe to be my teammates. that's given me the best results

[ikarusdk]

That game was silent night fyi,

But don't thunk it matters because Nancy didn't post

[tutuu]

spoiler tags don't work aint my fault :sob:

[ikarusdk]

So when is EoD? Just having some food

[ikarusdk]

some posts ive made previously as town on day 1s (in multiple games):

[spoiler]





[/spoiler]

also a big readlist i had in another game:

https://www.fortressoflies.com/t/an-...read/5604/2922

thats just how i play, i focus on finding a towncore and working with it. im not good at chopping wolves early and by myself, i need at least 1 wolf flip to get me going. until then i support who i believe to be my teammates. that's given me the best results

Thanks, I'll have a read on it after some food.

[tutuu]

So when is EoD? Just having some food

a bit less than 15 hours

[CRichardForumLies]

Was this a meta-related read?

It's partly from what I've seen from Baker games offsite admittedly.

[CRichardForumLies]

The hydra side of the CRich slot in a vacuum is obviously pretty bad both in terms of posting quality and quantity (both heads only posting a single combined time as a direct response to pressure and then never returning to the thread) and it's more difficult to buy that both heads in the slot were individually inactive for reasons independent of alignment and that the timing of them popping into the thread was purely coincidental.

I think there's some room for giving them the benefit of the doubt here that both of them were coincidentally busy / forgot about the game and that they coincidentally came back to the thread at the point they were wagoned only to immediately dip again but the slot pre-CRich sub is bad enough to give me at least some degree of hesitancy in calling CRich town.

For full disclosure. Nancy has a habit of zero posting as town from games I've hosted on my homesite.
I feel that calling my slot mafia because they were a zero poster before I subbed in feels a bit uncharitable.

[CRichardForumLies]

Vittae you asked about my game strategy question on who the mafia would nominate if they get lunched.
It was a thought experiment to see what if they would straight put up 3 townies to guarantee a mislunch, or put in one of their buddies so that said buddy appears towny as town would discount the idea without a 2nd thought.

[CRichardForumLies]

-vote CRichardForumLies

I am probably gonna vibe out rest of D2, so @ me if you have questions.

Perhaps I'm remembering it wrong, yet didn't you town lean me D1?
If so, what changed your mind?

[CRichardForumLies]

For players who know the either / both heads of the hydra from other games, are they the sort who you'd consider 0-posting to be wolf AI for or would you consider it genuinely NAI for them as individuals?

Nancy 0 posting is NAI from my host meta on them.
I have no clue on the other hydra head.

[scumbot5679]

im not sure why we'd do richard or lol over varcon? I'll be back after SNF

[bakermir]

Perhaps I'm remembering it wrong, yet didn't you town lean me D1?
If so, what changed your mind?

You ignoring my ping latest ping + MM flip + MM nominating you first



I had you as one of the names in my anti-world note somewhere way before Vittae and you voted MM off.. You are being protected by multiple players here, which could potentially mean you or someone clearing you is not town as per the laws of universe. MM was DADV and was at the brink of being replaced if you guys didn't force a hammer = Both you and Vittae had an opportunity to change the votes to scumbot or lol, as MM could still be replaced if they didn't post. Additionally; scumbot if chopped and flipped town, would have certainly nominated MM given the gamestate, and would brought this up yesterday/today, but they never did.

Among MM voters scumbot/CRichard/vittae someone is a town misplaying here, and someone is mafia. Difference check

Both lol and Varcron can be nominated again at any point, and there's a good chance Varcron will be replaced if they don't post soon and the day should get another 12 hours.

I also think lol could be misread here and potentially the worst chop given it benefits mafia especially a mafia tutuu here to go for the easier mischop. You are engaged in game and if you happen to be town, it would be in your interest to discuss a set of nominations with us if possible.You were the first one to coin the idea that there is a wolf in Baker/Vittae/Tutuu/Martin along with Varcron/MM containing the other wolf and I asked if anything has changed.

Let me know where your thoughts are at.

[CRichardForumLies]

I'm not ignoring your ping. I don't see them as it probably was when I was sleeping.