S-FM 327 : Last Hope

[OzyWho]

Why are you echoing the "contribution" = doesn't deserve to be lynched sentiment that's just wrong dude. I said Lag doesn't feel to me the way he's acting in the thread. Saying that he desrves to stay over #2 solely based on the fact of contribution is scummy.

I've looked at his slot and it appears as it always does and I don't want to touch it, that's not being lazy stop that. Do you not like me pushing Lag for being scummy? I finally have time to post so that's what I'm going to do whether you like it or not. I'm here and I'm not going anywhere.

Tbh, if there's ever a policy lynch day, it'd be D1.
But I'm definetly against policy lynching Nr2 lol.

Ngl, I'd rather policy lynch MM. Tonally he was definitely in his Scum Range, whilst we know that he has like no free time and won't be of much help going forward.

But he has only 5 posts, so that opinion's bound to change more often than not

[Varcron]

@Varcron

Oberon is hyper aware that hes town meta is tantrums, and that many here know it. He has put effort into shifting away from it for many games as town now.
This makes your argument here upside down.



I don't follow the logic.
Wrath is Towny because if Oberon flipped Scum, wrath would look suspicious for not voting Oberon?
Ok, I understand your logic of `Wrath is towny because Scum Wrath would bus Scum Oberon`, but I fail to see why does that make Oberon Town, or why if Oberon is town is Wrath Town again?
I'm like super confused.
I feel dumb and don't understand anything!


Why are Nr2 and ZZ better than the 10 other players that are not Oberon and Wrath?

Okay, so both are independent variables. scum!Wrath wouldn't be trying really hard to defend his scum buddy early in the game, that doesn't make sense at all. If anything he should be trying to redirect the lynch somewhere else instead of doing that.

Now onto Oberon, he (in my POV) wouldn't be getting his back up and getting massively pissed off if he were scum, hence my read of town!Oberon

We're just about halfway through D1 and the contributions that they have made literally have given us nothing, ZZOrange I believe said "Why are we talking, I'll just vote the guy with the highest vote count at the end of the day" which reads scummy to me, as well as #2 Not giving any reads at all then lurking for the rest of the time.

I don't think he has fully gotten rid of his previous town meta, so I'm sticking with that argument for the time being as to why I think he is town.

[Lumi]

@Frinckles

What do you make of the conversation in #549

Since you label Oberon as town and Wrath as scum?

[blinkskater]

i did both these things as noob town. i think you're reading too much into lagattack. she's literally new to fm. even if she was scum, who would her teammate be? me?

I think you easily could have been pocketed there, you're too trusting, frinckles doesn't seem to like my scum read there, but with him it could mean a few different things. I could see a !scum lag having partners among the more active players because of where his thoughts and reads are pointing by wanting to ditch the low contributers.

I feel you and Lag have literal opposite tones in this game like cats and dogs

[Varcron]

Wrath is Towny because if Oberon flipped Scum, wrath would look suspicious for not voting Oberon?

That's correct. If we voted and lynched Oberon and he flipped scum anyone not voting Oberon would look more suspicious, especially someone who went hard on defending him.

[OzyWho]

my reasons for being angry this game are pretty different to my usual reasons, so I don't think that's a valid argument
I hated it when ppl's reads on me were completely nonsensical, it felt kinda like being pushed by someone using my older playstyle,
in the words of an anonymous person: "people who play mafia are the same kind of people who take 30 minutes at the supermarket to decide which brand of soap they're buying"

yeah, that is pretty much how I felt. lol

and for the first time, I got read as jester (????) for doing things that really weren't jestery or even that weird to begin with, just because I don't play like I usually do

I'm sorry if I upset you.
But you have to understand, you didn't understand simple questions and hallucinated about posts like multiple times in a row. How were we not to assume that you're jester upon seeing that?

[blinkskater]

Tbh, if there's ever a policy lynch day, it'd be D1.
But I'm definetly against policy lynching Nr2 lol.

Ngl, I'd rather policy lynch MM. Tonally he was definitely in his Scum Range, whilst we know that he has like no free time and won't be of much help going forward.

But he has only 5 posts, so that opinion's bound to change more often than not

Why would we policy lynch anyone aside from Efekannn02? The more I play this the lamer and lamer the policy lynches become, we lynch ppl because there scummy, contributions and post count being low are NOT scummy its NAI shit.

[Lumi]

I think you easily could have been pocketed there, you're too trusting, frinckles doesn't seem to like my scum read there, but with him it could mean a few different things. I could see a !scum lag having partners among the more active players because of where his thoughts and reads are pointing by wanting to ditch the low contributers.

I feel you and Lag have literal opposite tones in this game like cats and dogs

How about you actually read my iso where I say a lot more than just ditching low contributors?

[Lumi]

Why would we policy lynch anyone aside from Efekannn02? The more I play this the lamer and lamer the policy lynches become, we lynch ppl because there scummy, contributions and post count being low are NOT scummy its NAI shit.

And you seem to be the one with the low effort reads - just going after people who you claim want to go after low contributors is just as low effort, if not more

[Numbertwo]

Before i go to sleep i will reveal that im a simple Villager(not a fake claim)

[OzyWho]

i did both these things as noob town. i think you're reading too much into lagattack. she's literally new to fm. even if she was scum, who would her teammate be? me?

Natural OMGUS is entirely a town trait. Reference: Helz's guide.
Also, new players 100% see effort as Towny. Fuck it, I myself see effort as Towny more than anyone in the world probs.

I agree with you over blink wrt lag.

[Varcron]

Natural OMGUS is entirely a town trait. Reference: Helz's guide.
Also, new players 100% see effort as Towny. Fuck it, I myself see effort as Towny more than anyone in the world probs.

I agree with you over blink wrt lag.

That's one of the reasons why MartinGG fools everyone when he plays, people see the great wall of text as towny.

[blinkskater]

How about you actually read my iso where I say a lot more than just ditching low contributors?

I have skimmed and I remember seeing a lot of that

[blinkskater]

And you seem to be the one with the low effort reads - just going after people who you claim want to go after low contributors is just as low effort, if not more

how is it low effort to go after someone for being wolfy? you're literally taking what I'm saying and saying No you lmao.

[blinkskater]

Natural OMGUS is entirely a town trait. Reference: Helz's guide.
Also, new players 100% see effort as Towny. Fuck it, I myself see effort as Towny more than anyone in the world probs.

I agree with you over blink wrt lag.

i'm pretty sure you've seen me play scum and you still think effort is a town trait?

[Yuesford]

Aye Sir! @Frinckles

-vote Numbertwo

[OzyWho]

Okay, so both are independent variables. scum!Wrath wouldn't be trying really hard to defend his scum buddy early in the game, that doesn't make sense at all. If anything he should be trying to redirect the lynch somewhere else instead of doing that.

Now onto Oberon, he (in my POV) wouldn't be getting his back up and getting massively pissed off if he were scum, hence my read of town!Oberon

-I think A is B because C is D
-I think C isn't D because w/e.

The level of logical fallacy here is just...

[blinkskater]

And you seem to be the one with the low effort reads - just going after people who you claim want to go after low contributors is just as low effort, if not more

You probably shouldn't leave things out to make me appear more scummy, your over defensiveness and OMGUS are just as strong of alignment tells, and it falls into place with your overall tone for me aswell.

[Varcron]

-I think A is B because C is D
-I think C isn't D because w/e.

The level of logical fallacy here is just...

Explain your thought process behind it, that's just my take.

[blinkskater]

@LagAttack I'm not trying to be a dick, i'm past those days, but I legitimately scum read you have said why.

FMPOV the way you are reacting to a scum read and a single vote from another player is telling and has gotten me pelts before.

[Frinckles]

@Frinckles

What do you make of the conversation in #549

Since you label Oberon as town and Wrath as scum?

I'll stand by that read for now yeah. I think a scum!wrath makes sense for a few reasons.

-Weird intro
[Could just be new player habits.]

-Whiteknighting Oberon
[Oberon has been pushed by I think 4 people are most. There is a world where both are scum but I don't think we're in it.]

-Misdirection away from Oberon
[Towards Varcron/LagAttack, which doesn't really line up with my views either. This could be combined with the above argument.]

-Overt defensiveness when Ceko called out scum equity
[Wrath wasn't even being voted and pulled the classic "wait till I flip!." I get that's a thing in some Mafia games but ]

-Stance on town killing roles
[Admittedly, killing roles are swingy but anybody confident that they're coming across as town shouldn't worry about this. Ozy was the one who brought this up originally and I didn't like it from them. I like it less from Wrath.]

In general I think being apprehensive to D1 lynches is silly. Yeah, we're not always right but if you're going to support not letting our power roles kill and then support not letting town vote to lynch I don't see it as a way to protect townies. I see it as scum closing off any venue that can eliminate them as soon as possible.

[OzyWho]

Why would we policy lynch anyone aside from Efekannn02? The more I play this the lamer and lamer the policy lynches become, we lynch ppl because there scummy, contributions and post count being low are NOT scummy its NAI shit.

You clearly haven't lost games to Scum teams where everyone is like the lowest poster and everyone is coasting.
Allowing that feels almost half as bad as losing to `TWTBAW`.

[Lumi]

@LagAttack I'm not trying to be a dick, i'm past those days, but I legitimately scum read you have said why.

FMPOV the way you are reacting to a scum read and a single vote from another player is telling and has gotten me pelts before.

"Skimmed" and yet you've not yet weighed in on Oberon and Wrath
Ignored everything talked about in the conversation at #549
Accused me of literally lying for weeks before this game saying I've played FM before just to gain some sort of sociopathic edge where I could pretend to be new - but you admitted that you've done that yourself, so maybe you're just projecting.

You're not trying to be a dick, but you sure come off as one

[OzyWho]

i'm pretty sure you've seen me play scum and you still think effort is a town trait?

Actress role though...

I was talking about my own biases, not thought-out opinions ftr.

[Frinckles]

You clearly haven't lost games to Scum teams where everyone is like the lowest poster and everyone is coasting.
Allowing that feels almost half as bad as losing to `TWTBAW`.

I think Gyrlander did that to me one time.

[blinkskater]

You clearly haven't lost games to Scum teams where everyone is like the lowest poster and everyone is coasting.
Allowing that feels almost half as bad as losing to `TWTBAW`.

I usually don't lose to scum teams because I carry the shit out of games @Frinckles

[Lumi]

@LagAttack I'm not trying to be a dick, i'm past those days, but I legitimately scum read you have said why.

FMPOV the way you are reacting to a scum read and a single vote from another player is telling and has gotten me pelts before.

My biggest issue with you is that you are literally accusing me of lying about being new to FM, despite plenty of evidence otherwise - saying you don't buy it.
Like who does that? Lies about being new to the game just so they can pretend to be new? the hell?

[Oberon]

@LagAttack I'm not trying to be a dick, i'm past those days, but I legitimately scum read you have said why.

FMPOV the way you are reacting to a scum read and a single vote from another player is telling and has gotten me pelts before.

​I hope to witness this again

[OzyWho]

You probably shouldn't leave things out to make me appear more scummy, your over defensiveness and OMGUS are just as strong of alignment tells, and it falls into place with your overall tone for me aswell.

You're talking as if OMGUS is scum indicative.
There's 2 different natural types of OMGUS:
Paranoid OMGUS - Technically the same as above except it’s OMGUS, therefore only OMGUS counts here. Had to be put in the list in order to differentiate from the “I’M INNOCENT, YOU SUCK!” OMGUS that’s in the Scum Attributes.
Self-pres OMGUS - OMGUS that’s focused on why the accuser is wrong.

And this is definetly more the natural town-omgus than the scum-omgus. And as a new player, he wouldn't know the natural town reactions to fake.

[Lumi]

I'll stand by that read for now yeah. I think a scum!wrath makes sense for a few reasons.

-Weird intro
[Could just be new player habits.]

-Whiteknighting Oberon
[Oberon has been pushed by I think 4 people are most. There is a world where both are scum but I don't think we're in it.]

-Misdirection away from Oberon
[Towards Varcron/LagAttack, which doesn't really line up with my views either. This could be combined with the above argument.]

-Overt defensiveness when Ceko called out scum equity
[Wrath wasn't even being voted and pulled the classic "wait till I flip!." I get that's a thing in some Mafia games but ]

-Stance on town killing roles
[Admittedly, killing roles are swingy but anybody confident that they're coming across as town shouldn't worry about this. Ozy was the one who brought this up originally and I didn't like it from them. I like it less from Wrath.]

In general I think being apprehensive to D1 lynches is silly. Yeah, we're not always right but if you're going to support not letting our power roles kill and then support not letting town vote to lynch I don't see it as a way to protect townies. I see it as scum closing off any venue that can eliminate them as soon as possible.

If we have scum!Wrath and town!Oberon, why did Wrath go out of his way to defend Oberon?

[Frinckles]

Here let's try a new strategy. It's called work together. We're on lvl 1: ZZ TOPS

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/searc...archid=3604624

Is this person scummity scum scum?

He's sassy and wants to kill the top poster (who would be Ceko at this moment but he probably doesn't know that.)

Can we reasonably eliminate him from a PoE?

[OzyWho]

You're talking as if OMGUS is scum indicative.
There's 2 different natural types of OMGUS:
Paranoid OMGUS - Technically the same as above except it’s OMGUS, therefore only OMGUS counts here. Had to be put in the list in order to differentiate from the “I’M INNOCENT, YOU SUCK!” OMGUS that’s in the Scum Attributes.
Self-pres OMGUS - OMGUS that’s focused on why the accuser is wrong.

And this is definetly more the natural town-omgus than the scum-omgus. And as a new player, he wouldn't know the natural town reactions to fake.

fuck my copy pasting before reading, it looks awful
taken from:
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...s-2021-edition
ftr

[OzyWho]

Here let's try a new strategy. It's called work together. We're on lvl 1: ZZ TOPS

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/searc...archid=3604624

Is this person scummity scum scum?

He's sassy and wants to kill the top poster (who would be Ceko at this moment but he probably doesn't know that.)

Can we reasonably eliminate him from a PoE?

link didnt work

[theoneceko]

@Varcron

Oberon is hyper aware that hes town meta is tantrums, and that many here know it. He has put effort into shifting away from it for many games as town now.
This makes your argument here upside down.



I don't follow the logic.
Wrath is Towny because if Oberon flipped Scum, wrath would look suspicious for not voting Oberon?
Ok, I understand your logic of `Wrath is towny because Scum Wrath would bus Scum Oberon`, but I fail to see why does that make Oberon Town, or why if Oberon is town is Wrath Town again?
I'm like super confused.
I feel dumb and don't understand anything!



Why are Nr2 and ZZ better than the 10 other players that are not Oberon and Wrath?

scum wrath wouldn't know how to bus, he's a player from the mod.

[blinkskater]

My biggest issue with you is that you are literally accusing me of lying about being new to FM, despite plenty of evidence otherwise - saying you don't buy it.
Like who does that? Lies about being new to the game just so they can pretend to be new? the hell?

I've honestly seen zero evidence otherwise. I don't even know who you are. I'm not going to sit there and not say anything when I get a feeling about a player in a game i'm trying to win.

And i've literally said I've done it because it works

[Lumi]

Here let's try a new strategy. It's called work together. We're on lvl 1: ZZ TOPS

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/searc...archid=3604624

Is this person scummity scum scum?

He's sassy and wants to kill the top poster (who would be Ceko at this moment but he probably doesn't know that.)

Can we reasonably eliminate him from a PoE?

How do you even tell anything about a player that has barely posted?

[OzyWho]

Explain your thought process behind it, that's just my take.

How can you say that Wrath is town on the basis that Oberon is Scum, when you think that Oberon is Town?
Think dude, think.
That's like saying "I think there are berries in my garden because it's summer, but I also think it's winter because there's snow outside and its December".

I can't believe you're having trouble with that obvious logical fallacy.

[Frinckles]

​I hope to witness this again

At this rate I'll piss off Blinkskater by D3, assuming we're both alive.

If we have scum!Wrath and town!Oberon, why did Wrath go out of his way to defend Oberon?

That's my point. If Wrath is scum all he has to do is be on the correct side of that lynch to be perceived as towny but the train lost momentum.

At worst, he was defending a scummate oberon. But what's more likely is that he saw a loud town!oberon and an opportunity to get some town points in the event of his lynch.

I'm doubtful a new player in his position would try to push a mislynch hard, he'd take a different angle.

[Lumi]

I've honestly seen zero evidence otherwise. I don't even know who you are. I'm not going to sit there and not say anything when I get a feeling about a player in a game i'm trying to win.

And i've literally said I've done it because it works

Got it, so blinkskater is a sociopath that isn't above going to new forums and pretending to be new to forum mafia in order to gain a tiny edge in the game. And then he projects that kind of behavior onto other people.

Good to know

[OzyWho]

@LagAttack I'm not trying to be a dick, i'm past those days, but I legitimately scum read you have said why.

FMPOV the way you are reacting to a scum read and a single vote from another player is telling and has gotten me pelts before.

I like you, but you're wrong.
It's literally paranoid OMGUS by him, not at all focused on self-pres.
Scum can't be paranoid, they'd have to fake it.

[OzyWho]

My biggest issue with you is that you are literally accusing me of lying about being new to FM, despite plenty of evidence otherwise - saying you don't buy it.
Like who does that? Lies about being new to the game just so they can pretend to be new? the hell?

Plz drop it. This is like the 20th post I read this same. Gets old

[WrathCyber]

I'll stand by that read for now yeah. I think a scum!wrath makes sense for a few reasons.

-Weird intro
[Could just be new player habits.]

-Whiteknighting Oberon
[Oberon has been pushed by I think 4 people are most. There is a world where both are scum but I don't think we're in it.]

-Misdirection away from Oberon
[Towards Varcron/LagAttack, which doesn't really line up with my views either. This could be combined with the above argument.]

-Overt defensiveness when Ceko called out scum equity
[Wrath wasn't even being voted and pulled the classic "wait till I flip!." I get that's a thing in some Mafia games but ]

-Stance on town killing roles
[Admittedly, killing roles are swingy but anybody confident that they're coming across as town shouldn't worry about this. Ozy was the one who brought this up originally and I didn't like it from them. I like it less from Wrath.]

In general I think being apprehensive to D1 lynches is silly. Yeah, we're not always right but if you're going to support not letting our power roles kill and then support not letting town vote to lynch I don't see it as a way to protect townies. I see it as scum closing off any venue that can eliminate them as soon as possible.

I get where you're coming from. But you failed to mention how I'm at the top of Ceko's scum list when clearly I have time and time again defended Ceko as my Town pocket. Also, yes, it is my first game so I could be getting my read on oberon completely wrong. He could might as well be scum. There is no 100% in this case, but I do believe the probability of him being scum is less than 40%.

[blinkskater]

You're talking as if OMGUS is scum indicative.
There's 2 different natural types of OMGUS:
Paranoid OMGUS - Technically the same as above except it’s OMGUS, therefore only OMGUS counts here. Had to be put in the list in order to differentiate from the “I’M INNOCENT, YOU SUCK!” OMGUS that’s in the Scum Attributes.
Self-pres OMGUS - OMGUS that’s focused on why the accuser is wrong.

And this is definetly more the natural town-omgus than the scum-omgus. And as a new player, he wouldn't know the natural town reactions to fake.

You completely disregard my take on him not being a new player dude, you also come to a conclusion on MY thoughts whilst leaving shit out smh

[Lumi]

At this rate I'll piss off Blinkskater by D3, assuming we're both alive.



That's my point. If Wrath is scum all he has to do is be on the correct side of that lynch to be perceived as towny but the train lost momentum.

At worst, he was defending a scummate oberon. But what's more likely is that he saw a loud town!oberon and an opportunity to get some town points in the event of his lynch.

I'm doubtful a new player in his position would try to push a mislynch hard, he'd take a different angle.

Thanks, that makes sense

For ZZorange, how are we supposed to tell anything when he's barely posted anything?

[Frinckles]

link didnt work

Works for me. ISO Zzorange

How do you even tell anything about a player that has barely posted?

Rhetoric, usually. How they're speaking

Is there some sort of tool I can use to see who is posting the most in this thread without manually counting it? I need to see whos posting too much so i can vote them but I dont wanna have to do a lot of work to do it.

Are you suggesting lynching forum level default names LagAttack? That sounds like an educated opinion.

Wtf are all these people talking about scum reading and shit. Its mafia you just vote who you want to lynch really simple stuff. Probably just gonna vote whoever has the highest post count in the thread first, get the tryhards out of the way and it should be an easy W.

[Lumi]

Plz drop it. This is like the 20th post I read this same. Gets old

No, he's literally still pushing for me because he still is claiming I am a sociopath like him that goes to random new forums or makes alts and pretends to be new at FM in order to power wolf while pretending to be new.

[Lumi]

Works for me. ISO Zzorange



Rhetoric, usually. How they're speaking

I can provide some insight into the "sounds like an educated opinion" part - ZZorange has a reputation in the mod of lynching default names, so that comment about an educated opinion reads to me as just a jest about how his pushing for default names to be lynched in game is also "an educated opinion"

At least that's how I read it.

[blinkskater]

I like you, but you're wrong.
It's literally paranoid OMGUS by him, not at all focused on self-pres.
Scum can't be paranoid, they'd have to fake it.

I hate to break it to you but scum can be paranoid, IF Lag's read any of my previous games they would know how hard I push sometimes when I get strong feelings about something. That would definitely create paranoia in a scum player. I've been scum before and a bit paranoid Ozy, didn't have to fake it because it came naturally, being voted for something I was actually being scummy for created it. You're just flat wrong with statements like that and I doubt you actually thought about that before you said it.

[theoneceko]

I've honestly seen zero evidence otherwise. I don't even know who you are. I'm not going to sit there and not say anything when I get a feeling about a player in a game i'm trying to win.

And i've literally said I've done it because it works

unless lagattack was lying to ozywho and me about being new in the matrix(6p) observer chat and lying to me in pm's that this would be her first time playing fm, sHe Is a NeW pLaYer.

she's insanely thorough and loves stats, reading anything she posts on the forums outside this game should tell u that

i think you're projecting by saying lag is some smurf

[Frinckles]

I can provide some insight into the "sounds like an educated opinion" part - ZZorange has a reputation in the mod of lynching default names, so that comment about an educated opinion reads to me as just a jest about how his pushing for default names to be lynched in game is also "an educated opinion"

At least that's how I read it.

Oh that's kind of funny.