S-FM 348: Standoff - Page 20
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  1. ISO #951

  2. ISO #952

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    @deathworlds talk me through in detail your thoughts process EoD1 and how you came to fullclaim your role so late.

    What stopped you from claiming / hinting PR much earlier where you wouldn't have to out as Investigator? What made you wait so close to EoD that you felt you specifically had to out your full role not to die?

    How good of a mech player are you? Do you personally believe that you made a mech misplay at EoD1?

  3. ISO #953

  4. ISO #954

  5. ISO #955

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    In case it's relevant, I was intending to switch to PoD at the last minute EoD1 but I ran over time and got blocked by the thread locking (EoDs on this site end at :00 and not :01 and the new post alert was stopping me from being able to post without refreshing 3+ times per post on my shitty mobile internet so I ended up missing the vote).

    Sorry if Death is town, shouldn't have left it as late as I did to try to switch because town-Death going over there would have been really bad for us.

  6. ISO #956

  7. ISO #957

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Posts stating that I did try and how :

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    Course I was, my role does nothing until I die
    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    That WOULD be funny lol

    but no it's just the least bad DW could come up with after the panicky claim yesterday

    I was hoping to die for my claim, but yeah, chemist definitely is scarier. SIgh.

  8. ISO #958

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    In case it's relevant, I was intending to switch to PoD at the last minute EoD1 but I ran over time and got blocked by the thread locking (EoDs on this site end at :00 and not :01 and the new post alert was stopping me from being able to post without refreshing 3+ times per post on my shitty mobile internet so I ended up missing the vote).

    Sorry if Death is town, shouldn't have left it as late as I did to try to switch because town-Death going over there would have been really bad for us.
    Don't excuse yourself for you ultimate read on dw.

    I'll be checking wagons soon, IIRC PoD train was : ika, MM & DW

  9. ISO #959

  10. ISO #960

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    Random thought : why is CFD re-using a racist slang ?
    There's been some discussion on this on MU (as well as the term "lynch" as it has some racist connotations in the US I believe so many sites started to phase it out).

    I use the term "flash wagon" instead of CFD, it's self explanatory what it means and imo sounds better when used (wagon already being common slang for a bunch of votes on a person) even before getting to the issues there are with the term CFD.

  11. ISO #961

  12. ISO #962

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    I'll get you the post where I tried to draw attention too while I'm at it
    Please do.

    Basically looking for anywhere you either softed your role on D1 or played in a way on D1 that would encourage the wolves to NK you.

    Like personally if I had Snitch I probably fakeclaim a different PR on D1 or otherwise do *something* that makes me the top kill target that night for the mafia.

  13. ISO #963

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    Damn, thought I had quoted his claim. Anyway that was my (apparently sorry) attempt at screaming "Lies, in fact I am T invest !" in mafia ears
    Yeah I flagged this reaction to the claim in my ISO of you overnight, makes sense now given your claim.

    Anything else from D1?

  14. ISO #964

  15. ISO #965

  16. ISO #966

  17. ISO #967

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    Damn, thought I had quoted his claim. Anyway that was my (apparently sorry) attempt at screaming "Lies, in fact I am T invest !" in mafia ears
    Wait.

    Why not explicitly claim power role here? You're trying to get yourself killed, why not say "I'm a town investigative and this is a lie" explicitly instead of softing? (Obviously not claiming Snitch explicitly)

  18. ISO #968

  19. ISO #969

  20. ISO #970

  21. ISO #971

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    Wait.

    Why not explicitly claim power role here? You're trying to get yourself killed, why not say "I'm a town investigative and this is a lie" explicitly instead of softing? (Obviously not claiming Snitch explicitly)
    Tbh I didn't really consider it. Hadn't thought of what'd happen on the next day if I didn't die, if I had I probably would've hard claimed.

    But
    1) I wasn't sure he was lying, in fact I was quite sure that he really was invest but doubted that he was town (Oracle being kind-of-invest but not really I could see both of us being town still)
    2) I was far from convinced it'd work, if someone else pushed that I'd definitely think it's manipulative to do so that close to EoD

  22. ISO #972

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    Deb did you believe that your efforts on D1 made you a reasonably likely nightkill?

    Genuine answer please, if you're town and don't think so then say as much.

    But if you answer no please tell me what stopped you from pushing harder to be the NK.
    Likely, no probably not. But I thought I made myself a very plausible kill

  23. ISO #973

  24. ISO #974

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    Likely, no probably not. But I thought I made myself a very plausible kill
    Two things then.

    1. Why didn't you do more to get yourself N1ed?

    2. I've got a time sensitive question for you. I want you to answer it immediately as soon as I post it. Are you around and capable of doing that rn? Question should only take 2 mins to answer.

  25. ISO #975

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    Tbh I didn't really consider it. Hadn't thought of what'd happen on the next day if I didn't die, if I had I probably would've hard claimed.

    But
    1) I wasn't sure he was lying, in fact I was quite sure that he really was invest but doubted that he was town (Oracle being kind-of-invest but not really I could see both of us being town still)
    2) I was far from convinced it'd work, if someone else pushed that I'd definitely think it's manipulative to do so that close to EoD
    Your reaction at the time made it seem very much like you were certain he was lying though, unless that was an act?

  26. ISO #976

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    Two things then.

    1. Why didn't you do more to get yourself N1ed?

    2. I've got a time sensitive question for you. I want you to answer it immediately as soon as I post it. Are you around and capable of doing that rn? Question should only take 2 mins to answer.
    1. Simple, I didn't know what to do that wouldn't make it obvious I'm trying to draw attention

    Fire off, I'll be refreshing like a maniac

  27. ISO #977

  28. ISO #978

  29. ISO #979

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    1. Simple, I didn't know what to do that wouldn't make it obvious I'm trying to draw attention

    Fire off, I'll be refreshing like a maniac
    @Loldebite TIME LIMITED QUESTION

    Please post your last will, in full, right now.

    I'm sure you have one if town as you stated you were a plausible NK.

    You have ~2 minutes.

  30. ISO #980

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    @Loldebite TIME LIMITED QUESTION

    Please post your last will, in full, right now.

    I'm sure you have one if town as you stated you were a plausible NK.

    You have ~2 minutes.
    MIZERY INTERACTED WITH :
    vittae x a LOT
    debbie
    dw
    pod
    ika
    NEVER w/ varcron and MM (maybe at EoD tho ?)

    miz/vittae : not S/S

    PoD INTERACTED WITH :
    vittae
    ika
    dw
    varcron
    debbie
    miz
    mm

    PoD/Mizery not S/S (#194)
    PoD/MM probably not S/S, if you guys are gz, great theatrics

    Being a snitch, I believe the odds that town has both a snitch and an invest are below avg.

    And that's it for now. I'm very likely to revisit both, tho.


    Disapointing, I know

  31. ISO #981

  32. ISO #982

  33. ISO #983

  34. ISO #984

  35. ISO #985

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    As a enough estimate Deb, how many town games have you played?

    I know it's a fairly small number.
    On FM ? About half a dozen I'd say. Almost certain it's below 10 yet but getting close

    FTR I used to play IRL mafia a shit ton back when I was 17 or so. Some of my friends are very bad at body language and I relied on that lot, that's why I still consider myself somewhat of a FM noob.

  36. ISO #986

  37. ISO #987

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    I might've overstated how much I played back then, it'd be a shit ton for the working me of now, back then it felt like far too little mafia

    Basically we had a weekly roleplaying night on saturday evenings but since some of our crew (two of our girlfriends at the time) weren't fond of TRPGs when those came along, we played mafia instead.

  38. ISO #988

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    Thanks, didn't you think it was weird that there were two different useless power roles though? You knew that the setup only had 2-3 power roles at the time so did the thought genuinely never come to mind that it was very difficult to fit both your role and their expected one in this setup?

    I would expect almost anybody as town in your position to have at least some doubts internally about Varcron's claim, I'm surprised you seem to have none at all.
    I was actually surprised to hear Varcrons claim.

    My initial reaction was that Varcron is scum deception PR.
    Then as I started writing down that list where certain roles are not town friendly, I realised actually it isn't all that surprising to have two roles whose night action is bad for town because it covers more than half the roles available.

  39. ISO #989

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    On FM ? About half a dozen I'd say. Almost certain it's below 10 yet but getting close

    FTR I used to play IRL mafia a shit ton back when I was 17 or so. Some of my friends are very bad at body language and I relied on that lot, that's why I still consider myself somewhat of a FM noob.
    Ok good stuff.

    Yeah I understand, I came to FM from a background where I had played mafia with mostly friends and very polarised players as well.

  40. ISO #990

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    I appreciate that I'm asking you tonnes of questions Deb, I can stop if it's getting annoying.

    I'm just trying to get stuff out of you that makes your alignment more obvious basically.
    No harm done, that's pretty much the game. Besides, you're making a very convenient excuse for procrastinating work and I should thank you for it - don't worry that you're getting me behind schedule tho.

  41. ISO #991

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    I was actually surprised to hear Varcrons claim.

    My initial reaction was that Varcron is scum deception PR.
    Then as I started writing down that list where certain roles are not town friendly, I realised actually it isn't all that surprising to have two roles whose night action is bad for town because it covers more than half the roles available.
    Ok I can buy this thank you.

    Given you know you're 100% town now from your perspective do you think that one of Deb and Death is more or less likely from a setup balance perspective?

    Also, did you do anything on D1 that either hinted at your role deliberately or that you wouldn't have done if you didn't have your role?

  42. ISO #992

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    No harm done, that's pretty much the game. Besides, you're making a very convenient excuse for procrastinating work and I should thank you for it - don't worry that you're getting me behind schedule tho.
    Ok great stuff but feel free to either say you'll respond later or are too busy now.

    Like ideally I'd like to keep getting answers but if you're bust I respect that, I'm being quite demanding.

  43. ISO #993

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    @Loldebite @ikarusdk

    Go over everything you've done on D1 this game. I want your thoughts in detail at every point. I want you to tell me stuff that you never posted, the things going through your head, the things that a wolf wouldn't think but you as a villager absolutely would. Tell me about your overall strategy - what did you focus on, was there anything your role did to affect the way you thought, how were you planning to find mafia and win this game? What about confidence - were there times you thought the game was easy or times you thought we were screwed? How did your reads change over the course of the game and why?

    Just thoughts. Give me a lot of thoughts you thought that a mafia member wouldn't think but you definitely did think.

    (I suggest ISOing yourself and going through it)

    This is a very time-demanding question so if it's taking up a lot of your time I'm happy for you to stop part way through the Day as long as you've answered a reasonable bit or take a long time to answer this question.

    You can skip it if you really want to but this is a proven very effective way to sort people's alignments.

  44. ISO #994

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    @Loldebite @ikarusdk

    Go over everything you've done on D1 this game. I want your thoughts in detail at every point. I want you to tell me stuff that you never posted, the things going through your head, the things that a wolf wouldn't think but you as a villager absolutely would. Tell me about your overall strategy - what did you focus on, was there anything your role did to affect the way you thought, how were you planning to find mafia and win this game? What about confidence - were there times you thought the game was easy or times you thought we were screwed? How did your reads change over the course of the game and why?

    Just thoughts. Give me a lot of thoughts you thought that a mafia member wouldn't think but you definitely did think.

    (I suggest ISOing yourself and going through it)

    This is a very time-demanding question so if it's taking up a lot of your time I'm happy for you to stop part way through the Day as long as you've answered a reasonable bit or take a long time to answer this question.

    You can skip it if you really want to but this is a proven very effective way to sort people's alignments.
    Also if anybody else would like to answer this they are very welcome to.

    If you're town then it's a very effective way to demonstrate that.

  45. ISO #995

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    @Loldebite @ikarusdk

    Go over everything you've done on D1 this game. I want your thoughts in detail at every point. I want you to tell me stuff that you never posted, the things going through your head, the things that a wolf wouldn't think but you as a villager absolutely would. Tell me about your overall strategy - what did you focus on, was there anything your role did to affect the way you thought, how were you planning to find mafia and win this game? What about confidence - were there times you thought the game was easy or times you thought we were screwed? How did your reads change over the course of the game and why?

    Just thoughts. Give me a lot of thoughts you thought that a mafia member wouldn't think but you definitely did think.

    (I suggest ISOing yourself and going through it)

    This is a very time-demanding question so if it's taking up a lot of your time I'm happy for you to stop part way through the Day as long as you've answered a reasonable bit or take a long time to answer this question.

    You can skip it if you really want to but this is a proven very effective way to sort people's alignments.
    I'll get onto it after I finish wrapping up a wagonomics post

  46. ISO #996

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    Also if anybody else would like to answer this they are very welcome to.

    If you're town then it's a very effective way to demonstrate that.
    @deathworlds in particular I'd also like to hear an answer from because of the importance of the solve.
    @Marshmallow Marshall I'd probably appreciate a response from you as well please so I could follow your logic better.
    @Mizery you can if you want to but it's unlikely to change much about how I read you so w/e. Feel free to if you'd like though.

  47. ISO #997

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    Ok I can buy this thank you.

    Given you know you're 100% town now from your perspective do you think that one of Deb and Death is more or less likely from a setup balance perspective?

    Also, did you do anything on D1 that either hinted at your role deliberately or that you wouldn't have done if you didn't have your role?
    I didn't try hint at my role at all. I was genuinely trying to do guesswork with what I had on day 1. I knew I could not use my night action at least in day 1 so even if I had a different role, I don't think I would've done anything different.

    As to answer your question about deb vs death.

    This is a hard one to answer but I will try.
    If deb was a snitch, that means we can take Varcron at face value, more or less, that he was indeed town chemist. This aligns with what Varcron was hinting at about his role. But this does not mean mafia wouldn't have a tailor.
    Because I am 100% town bartender from my POV, this means town PR set up is Snitch(investigative) chemist (killing) bartender (deception).

    If deb was a tailor as death claimed, that means Varcron is tailored from something but what could it be? Was he really a PR? Was he a citizen? If he was a citizen then there is another PR hiding in citizen claim and since there are 3 of you already, I doubt this was really the case because this means deb and death are w/w. I think this narrative is least likely at this stage. This means I think Varcron was really a town PR. But whatever his role was, he did claim the night action was bad for town and this means his role was eother killing or deception. Since I am already in deception category, I think he was a killing role, meaning there is NO tailor, or tailor changed Varcron to something he actually was.

    Both scenario results in town invest, killing and deception in my mind.


    Which is more likely, I do not know. I am sure there is something I am missing here and I am trying to find the breadcrumb but it is 2am and my mind is sleepy

  48. ISO #998

  49. ISO #999

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Vittae View Post
    @Loldebite @ikarusdk

    Go over everything you've done on D1 this game. I want your thoughts in detail at every point. I want you to tell me stuff that you never posted, the things going through your head, the things that a wolf wouldn't think but you as a villager absolutely would. Tell me about your overall strategy - what did you focus on, was there anything your role did to affect the way you thought, how were you planning to find mafia and win this game? What about confidence - were there times you thought the game was easy or times you thought we were screwed? How did your reads change over the course of the game and why?

    Just thoughts. Give me a lot of thoughts you thought that a mafia member wouldn't think but you definitely did think.

    (I suggest ISOing yourself and going through it)

    This is a very time-demanding question so if it's taking up a lot of your time I'm happy for you to stop part way through the Day as long as you've answered a reasonable bit or take a long time to answer this question.

    You can skip it if you really want to but this is a proven very effective way to sort people's alignments.
    I think I better leave this up to when I am up tomorrow. I will make sure to a reply in the morning. I am in bed right now and ISOing myself in a post is going to be painful on the phone in bed

  50. ISO #1000

    Re: S-FM 348: Standoff

    Yesterday wagons from my POV :

    powerofdeath (3 [L-2]):
    Marshmallow Marshall, deathworlds, ikarusdk

    Mizery (1 [L-4]):
    Varcron

    deathworlds (3 [L-2]):
    Vittae, powerofdeath, Loldebite

    Marshmallow Marshall (1 [L-4]):
    Mizery

    From a neutral POV :

    powerofdeath (3 [L-2]):
    Marshmallow Marshall, deathworlds, ikarusdk

    Mizery (1 [L-4]):
    Varcron

    deathworlds (3 [L-2]):
    Vittae, powerofdeath, Loldebite

    Marshmallow Marshall (1 [L-4]):
    Mizery

    I'll be skipping the dead's votes because we don't actually care what's been going on in their heads now that they're dead.

    Mizery

    I don't think s!miz ever gets off the wagon for a coinflip, because it makes her look worse for no gain. Because of this there's WIFOM in there, of course, but still I don't believe it's worth it for scum. Heck it's hardly worth it for town, too, but I understand this is miz relying on vittae which she wouldn't do if she wasn't town - even if they are S/S.

    Deathworlds

    DW's vote is self-pres.

    Marshmallow Marshall

    MM's vote is convenient for him as that's the slot that scumreads him the most, he says that he's even more confident in his scum read of mizery if PoD flips scum (#329) but mostly votes him because of OMGUS it seems ? Feel free to clarify your thought process at EoD. I'd tag you if I knew any way other than going on your profile and manually copying your ID, something I CBA doing rn lol.

    Ikarusdk

    ika's vote didn't really consider DW as an option, he mentioned not wanting to mislynch miz or MM and that he felt good about MM so I assume he was comfortable voting along him. Later on he states that he'd rather mislynch a citizen than a town invest :

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    I'd switch vote to Pod whose claim is citizen rather than death whose claim is investigator
    A reasoning that I don't agree with but that does make some sense, especially from a mod player perspective were mechs are much more important.

    Vittę

    Initiated the PoD counterwagon on DW and I know I said I think vittę's a relentless busser but I don't think even him would bus that hard on D1, which means he's just town from my POV and thus trying to solidify wagons - which he succeeded at with miz.

 

 

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