S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

[Nancy Drew 39]

Anyway, rethinking it, if your argument is that town!Ikarus should have hard tr me because of my insistence on being jk’d and demanding him confirm but I still don’t understand your logic because town!Ikarus would come to the exact same conclusion as scum!Ikarus.

Anyway, I strongly disagree that him keeping his word by jking me is scum indicative.

[Nancy Drew 39]

See the Ren nk is extremely important here because from scum!Ikarus pov, it makes perfect sense but it doesn’t from yours.

I know Ikarus’ argument is a frame up but and I obviously can’t speak for hypothetical scum!you here but if I were scum here, no freaking way does Ren die over Ikarus.

Of course Ikarus’ counter to that would probably be based on our chat that, Ren had me as his top tr and you lowest on his list of the current players alive but he was right next to you.

So, I’m asking you to provide an argument to refute this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I still maintain that we 100% ought to have skipped yesterday and if I vote wrong here, I will blame it on people not listening to me.

I was not surprised day didn’t end because Zen’s d6 play really didn’t make much sense as scum but wasn’t confident on anyone else being scum and couldn’t even entertain Ikarus because of role.

Because of the carols, Zenon would have had more motive if scum to frame Ikarus than Zenon because both Zenon and Ikarus were mentioned in the carols and Martin was not, so it’s possible that skip could have led to Zenon getting miselimed one day later and me being that night’s nk.

However, unfortunately because people were so godawful at reading me, I was forced to insist on IC for partially that reason. Had people been reading me properly, I might not have been the ideal IC but because of Varcron’s especially bad takes, I thought it extremely likely that I could be the nk if I didn’t holf Ikarus’. feet to the fire on that. Obviously IC!me is a much bigger threat to mafia than Varcron was.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Eta: than Martin

[Nancy Drew 39]

So I’m saying is that from hypothetical scum!Zenon’s pov, an Ikarus frame up, makes more sense than from hypothetical scum!Martin.

Iow, I think it would have made more sense for hypothetical scum!Martin to have killed Ikarus > Ren. And we do have Ikarus mentioned in Gikkle’s carol as well, so if Martin was mentioned instead of Ikarus, this argument would likely be mute.

[Nancy Drew 39]

This doesn’t mean that it’s not possible but scum!me would have 10000% kill the only role that could 100% guilty me.

So @ika rus, please explain to me why that wouldn’t have been a much better strategy for scum!Martin than killing Ren?

If Ren had had me at the bottom of his readslist, I still would have killed you if scum. Why does scum!Martin essentially allow a role that functions as a cop to live?

I just think if Martin’s scum here, that’s extremely suboptimal play.

Another reason why I wanted to be IC here, is I’m the only one who is asking this question and I’m extremely certain that I would have 1000% been the game losing miselim if I hadn’t have been cleared.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@ikarusdk

[Nancy Drew 39]

So I’m saying is that from hypothetical scum!Zenon’s pov, an Ikarus frame up, makes more sense than from hypothetical scum!Martin.

Iow, I think it would have made more sense for hypothetical scum!Martin to have killed Ikarus > Ren. And we do have Ikarus mentioned in Gikkle’s carol as well, so if Martin was mentioned instead of Ikarus, this argument would likely be mute.

I meant hypothetical scum!Zenon.

I’m not fully awake yet.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why is it suicidal to send you a carol? Also sorry but from my POV you aren't obvtown. You are townier than others but apart from Renegade and myself, nobody is towncleared. Martin is my another top TR, but everyone else is fair game to me.

I am doing this because we need to know the next step (lynch) is the right choice and not made by emotion or confusion alone.

Because Frinckles and loldebite is a debated slot for me, whereas yoshida is an obvious scum, of course I'll push for yoshida.

Tackling all angles to ensure we don't miss anything is much better than blindly say oh this guy is scum because he made this play.

Wait, why exactly was Renegade “towncleared” here according to you?

This might totally mean nothing but doesn’t hurt to ask.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Anyway, if it does wind up being Ikarus here, he pretty much played a flawless game - outside of voting out Gikkle that is and reason I’m so extremely irritated by Martin’s jk post is that he’s claiming Ikarus hk jim - despite committing to me - if he’s town here - very clearly says that he would have tr Ikarus for that and voted me out.


Which obviously would have led to us losing, so really pissed off at that post, irrespective of Martin’s alignment.

So based on according to that hypothetical town!Martin’s take, jking Martin would have won hypothetical scum!Ikarus the game - which if Martin’s town here - it thoroughly blows my mind how he wouldn’t have been seeing this.

Anyway, I’d really appreciate some more help from whichever one of you is town here, thanks. Because I feel rn, like I’m trying to solve this game myself and that probably wouldn’t be happening if we hadn’t voted out Zenon yesterday. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

Can someone please ISO Stellaria for me, so I don’t have to do everything? Thanks.

Sorry, just really really frustrated and annoyed rn, especially since I’m doing the lion’s share of the posting.

ISOing Frinckles is also fine but the priority is Stellaria.

[Nancy Drew 39]

The room was created10:03 PM powerofdeath entered for the first time10:03 PM powerofdeath joined the chat10:03 PM powerofdeath: Night is only 22 hours long fyi10:03 PM powerofdeath: dont talk once day start10:03 PM Nancy Drew 39 entered for the first time10:05 PM Nancy Drew 39: Hello. Ikarus, ping me when you get in okay?10:06 PM Nancy Drew 39: Okay, got it.10:06 PM ikarusdk entered for the first time10:06 PM ikarusdk: hello10:06 PM ikarusdk: since you are fine jailed10:07 PM ikarusdk: it is 100% martin now10:07 PM Nancy Drew 39: Hi10:07 PM ikarusdk: im assuming varcron will die10:07 PM ikarusdk: because10:07 PM ikarusdk: if they kill me10:07 PM ikarusdk: it's 2 IC vs martin10:07 PM ikarusdk: but it's upto you to decide tomorrow, i will say i am town but that's all i can tell you10:08 PM ikarusdk: you can read back and give me any questions10:08 PM Nancy Drew 39: Well, we’ll find out tomorrow anyways.10:08 PM ikarusdk: but i will be voting martin tomorrow and he will be votin gmee10:08 PM ikarusdk: not gonna be mad if you vote me out10:08 PM ikarusdk: martin had me pocketed all game10:08 PM Nancy Drew 39: You need to give me more than that. Martin is going to say the same exact thing to me.10:09 PM ikarusdk: i don't know what else i could tell you.10:09 PM ikarusdk: i tried to save yoshida10:10 PM ikarusdk: and listen to him so we can jail him instead10:10 PM ikarusdk: but martin did vote him out10:10 PM ikarusdk: martin had me pocketed all game10:10 PM ikarusdk: he was hesitant on zenon but in the end he also voted zenon out10:10 PM ikarusdk: he also voted gikkle out10:10 PM ikarusdk: idk if im remembering correctly though

The room was created10:03 PM powerofdeath entered for the first time10:03 PM powerofdeath joined the chat10:03 PM powerofdeath: Night is only 22 hours long fyi10:03 PM powerofdeath: dont talk once day start10:03 PM Nancy Drew 39 entered for the first time10:05 PM Nancy Drew 39: Hello. Ikarus, ping me when you get in okay?10:06 PM Nancy Drew 39: Okay, got it.10:06 PM ikarusdk entered for the first time10:06 PM ikarusdk: hello10:06 PM ikarusdk: since you are fine jailed10:07 PM ikarusdk: it is 100% martin now10:07 PM Nancy Drew 39: Hi10:07 PM ikarusdk: im assuming varcron will die10:07 PM ikarusdk: because10:07 PM ikarusdk: if they kill me10:07 PM ikarusdk: it's 2 IC vs martin10:07 PM ikarusdk: but it's upto you to decide tomorrow, i will say i am town but that's all i can tell you10:08 PM ikarusdk: you can read back and give me any questions10:08 PM Nancy Drew 39: Well, we’ll find out tomorrow anyways.10:08 PM ikarusdk: but i will be voting martin tomorrow and he will be votin gmee10:08 PM ikarusdk: not gonna be mad if you vote me out10:08 PM ikarusdk: martin had me pocketed all game10:08 PM Nancy Drew 39: You need to give me more than that. Martin is going to say the same exact thing to me.10:09 PM ikarusdk: i don't know what else i could tell you.10:09 PM ikarusdk: i tried to save yoshida10:10 PM ikarusdk: and listen to him so we can jail him instead10:10 PM ikarusdk: but martin did vote him out10:10 PM ikarusdk: martin had me pocketed all game10:10 PM ikarusdk: he was hesitant on zenon but in the end he also voted zenon out10:10 PM ikarusdk: he also voted gikkle out10:10 PM ikarusdk: idk if im remembering correctly though

[Nancy Drew 39]

Thanks powerofdeath. <3

@MartinGG99

[Nancy Drew 39]

I apologize for getting upset but if it weren’t literally for the mech, I’d probably be sr Martin for that post.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I obviously haven’t decided anything yet but I need a lot - lot more from both of you here - to be remotely confident.

I will say again that Ikarus has played this game brilliantly irrespective of alignment.

[Nancy Drew 39]

this is ikarus response to my request on EOD. can anyone make sense of it?




and his first post coming into the day. no one cares about your jailer chat. anything could be said there. I think you confuse the roles with arcade here or it is just another fallacy of yours. NO ONE CARES. People are playing FM to read into what they say or vote here and read into the actions. Your action of jailing me means a lot more to others here instead of our chat.



and his follow up which again makes no sense if people read into my bomber comments, I was only stopping ren from shooting anyone, not just frinckles. I would never do this as mafia like what the hell are you guys on about. Especially renegade who fuckin received his gun from me and I have been pushing him to shoot Gikkle and Frinckles the entire day but he thinks I only asked him to shoot Frinckles is also suspicious. I have breadcrumbed it to Renegade even before the Frinckles/Gikkle claims were made. If any other town wants it, I can bring the posts where I breadcrumb it. Gikkle obviously saw this coming and took a gambit. Now, why would I fuckin want CE eliminated during day by a gun I gave to Ren who thinks I am fuckin mafia???? LIKE CAN YOU PEOPLE GET SOME SENSE WHY WOULD MAFIA GUNSMITH PLAY LIKE THAT? I am actually so mad rn I wish I could give another gun to Ren so he could at least shoot me out today so I don't have to deal with this jailer and people not reading the game.



Admitting here they didn't read EOD or the posts. Contradicting themselves when they cased me on the basis of how good they read my posts? WTF



Did loldebite breadcrumb or hint at them being a caroler yesterday? Why would they vote Gikkle over Frinckles in this case? You are either too goofy for me or just slipping once again because most of your posts dont make sense.



Some of my posts might not make sense either. Some of them were to wifom against mafia entire game and was harmless for town. I will take half credit on getting us both the Jailer and CE. If I weren't jailed, I could have gotten us a mafia today by providing another gun to shoot between Frinckles and Loldebite. Can people see how anti-town this jail was???????

I knew you wouldn't get a gun but you mentioning fabricator confused the hell out of me ikarus. Honestly people really need to start seeing your plastic contribution to the game and basically claiming to be the only good PR while shutting rest of us PRs down. I have no reason to believe you are town while you are being so carefree with your actions and make no sense the entire game. Half your ISO is full of with "OMG I AM SO TOWN"- get the hell out of here

-vote ikarusdk

Don’t know if this is useful or not but possibly could be.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Thought maybe there was something there with Stellaria pushing Ikarus so hard but then I remembered he’s the only one in Gikkle’s carol besides them and Lol.

However both Stellaria and Frinckles pushed Ren before Yoshida.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh wait! lololol, Stellaria never tried to push either Zenon or Varcron, because they knew they’d flip town.

Ahh! point for it possibly being Ikarus.

Sure those two slots hadn’t done much but Stellaria clearly had no interest in flipping them but they if Ikarus is scum, than Stellaria would maybe be golden although their play was pretty scummy so probably wouldn’t have endgamed.

[Nancy Drew 39]

That's my point Gikkle. You're not going to be swayed. Either you're incredibky biased for Ikarus and you're super (opposite of tunneled) on Ikarus for what seems like 0 reason, to the point of thinking any case against him is scum, or you're his partner. And I'm inclined to think the latter, and that you included his name to give yourself credit if he ever flipped.

Oh woah woah woah!

Could this be a possible smoking gun here?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I agree with this if there is a shot to be taken.

Would scum!Martin really make this post?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Would scum!Martin really make this post?

He’s agreeing that Ren should shoot Stellaria.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@powerofdeath , please fix the vote count. It has Martin voting Gikkle.

[Nancy Drew 39]

• Gikkle (1):
  MartinGG99
  

  ---

  MartinGG99 (1):
  ikarusdk

[Nancy Drew 39]

annnnnd for rest of the game, Frinckles barely mentions or interacts with me and when he starts doing that again its on the day that we're discussing who of Frinckles/Yoshida should die first.

He tries pairing me both to Ikarus and to Stellaria, both of his mafia temmates (if you presume I'm town) likely in an effort to obfuscate who is the real mafia team.

Oh interesting.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Looking at the same quote more, I think it especially frames me and I think Ikarus comment about being framed was an attempt to be on the defensive and look better for it because he feared that I may turn on him for the Renegade kill. Because, of course, he would know that I am town and there would be a mild to significant possibility I would look at Ikarus in the situation that Both Yoshida and Varcron flip or get proven as that would then show Ikarus was Renegade's top suspect in such a situation in my POV.

I hope that word soup was not too terrible. A lot of perspective shifting there.

I think that for anyone else who would be scum, it’s optimal to kill the jk who’s role also functions like a cop particularly in this type of setup.

It makes sense for Ikarus to invoke frame up regardless of alignment but I just don’t see how killing Ren > Ikarus really benefits you, especially from a player not mentioned in either carol.
@ikarusdk , why did you never make those posts in chat you promised me?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Honestly I think we did our best with what we were given.

I won't even be mad about losing to Martin, his game is too towny for me to nip pick at anything honestly, amd the only reason why I am certain it is Martin is because of mech reasons.

I must say though, I am pretty tired so I kinda wouldn't mind if hammering was enabled to finish the day early and I'm sure people in graveyard would like to know the result too.

I went over Martins ISO last night and I did not find anything. I am not good enough to find inconsistencies or scum points in anything he had said.

I salute you.

-vote MartinGG99

But he’s found things on you and your play has also looked townie. It’s like in the what you say how you won’t be upset at me for voting you.

Howis that supposed to help me decide?


Also, you claimed it was town indicative for you to have wanted to save Yoshida but unlike Martin, you never even considered voting skip yesterday.

Had you voted to skip yesterday too, I would agree with this take.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sorry Martin. I was wrong, you have put in effort. I was just really weirded out by the jk post because I don’t agree with you that it’s scum indicative that he kept his word to me, unless your argument exactly is that he tr me for my insistence on being jk’d?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’ll be back later. It’s not much fun talking tonmyself. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

His plan to pull me to 2v1 Mylo situation was well done.

In hindsight I think I was too transparent in figuring that out, and perhaps if I had kept quiet about it he would've killed me instead of renegade so that's one regret I have

“Kept quiet” about what?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sorry Martin. I was wrong, you have put in effort. I was just really weirded out by the jk post because I don’t agree with you that it’s scum indicative that he kept his word to me, unless your argument exactly is that he tr me for my insistence on being jk’d?

I still strongly disagree and what tilted me was the unstated implication that you would have tr him and sr me and since I’m IC, would you have voted me out in that case?

Because my alignment obviously wouldn’t change and I 1000% would have both sr and instavoted Ikarus for breaking his word to me, so I still don’t think that argument makes much sense.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@MartinGG99 , @ikarusdk

ping me when you’re back online.

[ikarusdk]

Sorry I'll be coming back online later. I've had very busy day yesterday and just went straight to comatose and just woke up..

[ikarusdk]

“Kept quiet” about what?

bringing up my suspcison I was only alive because I'm being framed.

But he’s found things on you and your play has also looked townie. It’s like in the what you say how you won’t be upset at me for voting you.

Howis that supposed to help me decide?


Also, you claimed it was town indicative for you to have wanted to save Yoshida but unlike Martin, you never even considered voting skip yesterday.

Had you voted to skip yesterday too, I would agree with this take.

It wasn't to help you to decide, it was more or less a opening/closing statement for the end of the game.

I had considered skipping the day, but I decided it was not changing anything. Also I was SR Zenon anyway.

we skip
Martin kills Varcron,
I would've jailed Zenon
The next day we wake up Zenon is IC (all in hindsight, we would not have known at that point in time). So Zenon IC + ika v Nancy v Martin.
We decide to jail/lynch you.
We jail you, then Martin would've killed Zenon, because killing me would result in 2IC vs Martin. So we wake up in the same scenario as now. Nancy IC v ika v Martin
We lynch you, then Martin would've killed me, and it's game over.

I think that for anyone else who would be scum, it’s optimal to kill the jk who’s role also functions like a cop particularly in this type of setup.

It makes sense for Ikarus to invoke frame up regardless of alignment but I just don’t see how killing Ren > Ikarus really benefits you, especially from a player not mentioned in either carol.
@ikarusdk , why did you never make those posts in chat you promised me?

That's not true that killing Ren over me because he is not mentioned in either carol does not benefit Martin. I did not think about the carol part at least when we chatted but it makes sense that martin kills ren over me if he wanted to frame me because I was in carol, ren was not. So I am more likely to be scum from town pov.

Also I did go over Martin's ISO, and I found nothing. Probably because I've been pretty tired. Also I did not want to post anything unless I found something, otherwise it's just flooding the forum with no purpose. I thought I'd still have time. I will go over the posts again and see if i can spot inconsistencies or anything but I can't really promise that I will because I am still developing scum hunting skills. Does not help that unlike you, i shared very similar worldview with martin all game. But give me some time.

[ikarusdk]

Oh wait! lololol, Stellaria never tried to push either Zenon or Varcron, because they knew they’d flip town.

Ahh! point for it possibly being Ikarus.

Sure those two slots hadn’t done much but Stellaria clearly had no interest in flipping them but they if Ikarus is scum, than Stellaria would maybe be golden although their play was pretty scummy so probably wouldn’t have endgamed.

ehhh, I disagree with this argument because...well scum has to push someone to be voted right? And I was just that person Stella was pushing with weird takes from day 1. Everyone's playstyle is different I guess so I don't know what the strategy was behind that deathtunnel if there was one.

[ikarusdk]

Wait, why exactly was Renegade “towncleared” here according to you?

This might totally mean nothing but doesn’t hurt to ask.

ugh (agitated at myself), I meant that Ren was another TOP TR, not towncleared. I think I was typing quite fast few times in the game and I made errors like this i think.

[ikarusdk]

This doesn’t mean that it’s not possible but scum!me would have 10000% kill the only role that could 100% guilty me.

So @ika rus, please explain to me why that wouldn’t have been a much better strategy for scum!Martin than killing Ren?

If Ren had had me at the bottom of his readslist, I still would have killed you if scum. Why does scum!Martin essentially allow a role that functions as a cop to live?

I just think if Martin’s scum here, that’s extremely suboptimal play.

Another reason why I wanted to be IC here, is I’m the only one who is asking this question and I’m extremely certain that I would have 1000% been the game losing miselim if I hadn’t have been cleared.

There are few reasons.

1) Simply, to get rid of another vocal player. At that time between Zenon,Ika,Nancy,Ren,Varcron,Martin, Ren was one of the more active players here. It makes the game eaiser to be powerwolfed (but there was no powerwolfing) by getting rid of player who has pretty high standard of play.

2) To seed chaos. We are essentially dumbfounded by why ren was killed. Am I wrong here? It helps scum if the town uses too much focus on why this player was killed over someone.

3) Ren would've gone for Martin the next day as he had you,zenon really low in his POE, and martin and I pretty high.

4) On top of all these, killing Ren opens up the opportunity for ika to be framed, which is what happened as both Varcron and I had suspected. If I remember correctly, it was the day before that Martin stated that I am not an alignment cop. Coincidence?

[ikarusdk]

I hope I answered some key questions you had, and I must now go do some chores. I will be back try do some research on Martin....not looking forward to it tho.

[ikarusdk]

Becaus eim afraid i won't find anything again.

[ikarusdk]

There are few reasons.

1) Simply, to get rid of another vocal player. At that time between Zenon,Ika,Nancy,Ren,Varcron,Martin, Ren was one of the more active players here. It makes the game eaiser to be powerwolfed (but there was no powerwolfing) by getting rid of player who has pretty high standard of play.

2) To seed chaos. We are essentially dumbfounded by why ren was killed. Am I wrong here? It helps scum if the town uses too much focus on why this player was killed over someone.

3) Ren would've gone for Martin the next day as he had you,zenon really low in his POE, and martin and I pretty high.

4) On top of all these, killing Ren opens up the opportunity for ika to be framed, which is what happened as both Varcron and I had suspected. If I remember correctly, it was the day before that Martin stated that I am not an alignment cop. Coincidence?

so this makes sense from Martin's POV, and the 3rd point is why it does not make sense from your pov Nancy. Or perpahs you are a low risk player.

[ikarusdk]

Eh I could quote Martin and argue why this is scummy and that is scummy all day but honestly, I don't want to do that.....

Because from a neutral standpoint - they all make sense as town!martin pov and I AGREED with all of them.

So trying to do so, is kinda warping the reality to fit my current narrative to prove martin is scum, which is not how I want to play mafia in order to win.

For example, this post.

actually I don't have to do more thinking

jail Nancy and throw out zenon seems safest to me tbh

in such a case if that doesn't work then it confirms Ikarus as mafia and I think he really deserves the win because after his performance this far into the game I am literally going to consistently give him the toughest and perhaps some of the most unfair scrutiny in future games

I think I would be happy with that

I could argue that I saw the exact plan Martin was playing. I read him like a book and this is how he is going to play for the next two days (you know, the whole kill IC, leave me till mylo thing)

Martin decided to swing his vote in instead of skipping (kill zenon yes, one step further into his plan). Then he starts to paint scum!ikarus here and there to keep up with the frame act (starts supporting his claim I am scum).

This is just an example, but I would not want to do this because if i were a 3rd party agreeing with Martin look at this, from town!martin perspective, this makes sense.

I realise this does not help you at all Nancy, but this is my dilemma. Hence why I respect Martin as a mafia player because there is no mistake on his part.

I don't know if im getting my message acrossed, but sorry about rambling.

[Nancy Drew 39]

There are few reasons.

1) Simply, to get rid of another vocal player. At that time between Zenon,Ika,Nancy,Ren,Varcron,Martin, Ren was one of the more active players here. It makes the game eaiser to be powerwolfed (but there was no powerwolfing) by getting rid of player who has pretty high standard of play.

2) To seed chaos. We are essentially dumbfounded by why ren was killed. Am I wrong here? It helps scum if the town uses too much focus on why this player was killed over someone.

3) Ren would've gone for Martin the next day as he had you,zenon really low in his POE, and martin and I pretty high.

4) On top of all these, killing Ren opens up the opportunity for ika to be framed, which is what happened as both Varcron and I had suspected. If I remember correctly, it was the day before that Martin stated that I am not an alignment cop. Coincidence?

Okay, where is that post and what is it’s relevance?

[ikarusdk]

Okay, where is that post and what is it’s relevance?

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...943#post986943

Although actually voting out Yoshida effectively makes Ikarus an alignment cop of whoever they jail.

Post 2663.

'opens up the opportunity for ika to be framed' - because ika should obviously die as alignment cop

[Nancy Drew 39]

so this makes sense from Martin's POV, and the 3rd point is why it does not make sense from your pov Nancy. Or perpahs you are a low risk player.

Because, hypothetical scum!Martin could have killed you but instead killed Ren over a powerful toxn role that can clear people?

Are you familiar with Martin’s scumgame? I just think he’s a very bad mafia player to let you live.

Italiano?
Gikkle hadn’t out any prs yet.

Lol - totally makes sense.

Ren? Not so much.

Like I said, the frame up argument would make more sense if Martin was also in the carol. And if Martin was really scummy say like Stellaria, that would also be different.

He’s also quoted interesting things like that quote from Frinckles, for example. You haven’t quoted anything yet for me.

And you haven’t commented on any of the posts he quoted.

You say you did consider skip but unlike Martin, you never switched your vote.

All things being equal, you have two mech things against you where Martin does not:

Gikkle carol but primarily Ren nk. I’m just having real trouble understanding why a widely tr vt is a bigger threat than a jk that because of mech has a role that’s forced to clear people.

Like Varcron was eminently pushable. From scum!Martin pov, he makes a much better miselim than an nk. If you weren’t jk and mafia didn’t have mandatory factional kill, I honestly don’t know what I’d do but why does Lol get nk’d and yoiu do not?

And you still haven’t explained why you were willing to skip and jk Yoshida but not Zenon. You say you considered it but you never switched your vote.

Are you saying you tr Yoshida more than Zenon?

So why? I obviously felt the opposite.

Mech-wise you’re in a worse position than Martin and he’s quoted posts from dead scum and I’m still waiting for you to cite sole kind of evidence why it’s Martin and not you, so you need to do more to convince me it’s bMartin and not you.

Like I said, the only way a frame up would really make sense is if Martin were in one of the carols. So, I need you to scumcase Martih or if not that, something from flipped scum that points to Martin > you.

And you telling me how townie you think he’s been all game and despite all overwhelming evidence to the contrary was still suss on me but I’m supposed to now sr the player you keep calling townie by play, doesn’t help your situation any.

Okay, tell me why you think Italiano was nk’d? You jk’d Martin that night, correct? I still think scum was hoping to frame me with that and that was partially why it happened.

And agaih, wtf were you still sussing me after Ren nk, when you made it a point to claim Martin killed him because of his reads. Logically, you should have been te me for that then.

You can say you disagreed with his reads but you still nevertheless invoked them as a reason why I should think it’s Martin and not you.

If it makes sense to you that Martin killed Ren for his reads, than it should also logically follow that you would tr me more than Martin, solely based on that.

You say that makes sense because you disagreed with Ren’s reads and I say it doesn’t.

[Nancy Drew 39]

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...943#post986943

Post 2663.

'opens up the opportunity for ika to be framed' - because ika should obviously die as alignment cop

I want @MartinGG99 to respond to this.

However, this is in fact a more persuasive reason for scum!Martin to kill you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Although actually voting out Yoshida effectively makes Ikarus an alignment cop of whoever they jail.

Why would scum!Martin even this post as an attempt to frame you? Wouldn’t it make way more sense if he said something about Gikkle’s carol in that case? I don’t see how Martin saying this equals intent to frame?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Eta:Why would scum!Martin make this post an attempt to frame you?


If hypothetical scum!Martin recognizes you as an alignment cop, it makes way more sense for him to kill you rather than frame you.

Had you died, this post would be a point in favour of sr Martin because it shows he was well aware of your role’s power. It really doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to see potential frame up from this post.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Iow, this posts shows that Martin viewed your role post-Yoshida flip as a huge threat to scum but you’re arguing that he’s hyper aware of the threat your role poses but decides instead to kill Ren? Why?

[powerofdeath]

@powerofdeath , please fix the vote count. It has Martin voting Gikkle.

Tell Martin to change it, I don’t have the power to change anything

[ikarusdk]

Because, hypothetical scum!Martin could have killed you but instead killed Ren over a powerful toxn role that can clear people?

Are you familiar with Martin’s scumgame? I just think he’s a very bad mafia player to let you live.

Italiano?
Gikkle hadn’t out any prs yet.

Lol - totally makes sense.

Ren? Not so much.

Like I said, the frame up argument would make more sense if Martin was also in the carol. And if Martin was really scummy say like Stellaria, that would also be different.

He’s also quoted interesting things like that quote from Frinckles, for example. You haven’t quoted anything yet for me.

And you haven’t commented on any of the posts he quoted.

You say you did consider skip but unlike Martin, you never switched your vote.

All things being equal, you have two mech things against you where Martin does not:

Gikkle carol but primarily Ren nk. I’m just having real trouble understanding why a widely tr vt is a bigger threat than a jk that because of mech has a role that’s forced to clear people.

Like Varcron was eminently pushable. From scum!Martin pov, he makes a much better miselim than an nk. If you weren’t jk and mafia didn’t have mandatory factional kill, I honestly don’t know what I’d do but why does Lol get nk’d and yoiu do not?

And you still haven’t explained why you were willing to skip and jk Yoshida but not Zenon. You say you considered it but you never switched your vote.

Are you saying you tr Yoshida more than Zenon?

So why? I obviously felt the opposite.

Mech-wise you’re in a worse position than Martin and he’s quoted posts from dead scum and I’m still waiting for you to cite sole kind of evidence why it’s Martin and not you, so you need to do more to convince me it’s bMartin and not you.

Like I said, the only way a frame up would really make sense is if Martin were in one of the carols. So, I need you to scumcase Martih or if not that, something from flipped scum that points to Martin > you.

And you telling me how townie you think he’s been all game and despite all overwhelming evidence to the contrary was still suss on me but I’m supposed to now sr the player you keep calling townie by play, doesn’t help your situation any.

Okay, tell me why you think Italiano was nk’d? You jk’d Martin that night, correct? I still think scum was hoping to frame me with that and that was partially why it happened.

And agaih, wtf were you still sussing me after Ren nk, when you made it a point to claim Martin killed him because of his reads. Logically, you should have been te me for that then.

You can say you disagreed with his reads but you still nevertheless invoked them as a reason why I should think it’s Martin and not you.

If it makes sense to you that Martin killed Ren for his reads, than it should also logically follow that you would tr me more than Martin, solely based on that.

You say that makes sense because you disagreed with Ren’s reads and I say it doesn’t.

1) Do I know his scum game? - No I am not familiar with Martin's scumgame. This is only my 7th (8th?) FM game like ever, and 2 games I've played with him he was town.

2) About it making more sense if martin was in carol - How does it make more sense if he was in carol? Am I not understanding the things properly? Town would obviously sus a person who was in carol more than the person who was not since the carol can contain more than 1 mafia.

3) Quoting - I've been busy unfortunately and still am. I work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week and I do what I can during breaks, plus between chores when I get home. So excuse me if I haven't gone through over 3000 posts yet, but if i wasn't going to do it, then it's because I am tired. Also replying and answering posts are already taking up much of my free time.

4) Why I did not switch vote to skip on Zenon

I had considered skipping the day, but I decided it was not changing anything. Also I was SR Zenon anyway.

we skip
Martin kills Varcron,
I would've jailed Zenon
The next day we wake up Zenon is IC (all in hindsight, we would not have known at that point in time). So Zenon IC + ika v Nancy v Martin.
We decide to jail/lynch you.
We jail you, then Martin would've killed Zenon, because killing me would result in 2IC vs Martin. So we wake up in the same scenario as now. Nancy IC v ika v Martin
We lynch you, then Martin would've killed me, and it's game over.

5) Two mech things - I absolutely agree with Gikkle but I highly disagree about Ren's nk. I don't understand why you keep insisting Martin is more mech clear because Ren died instead of me, but I had explained why Ren had died instead of me multiple times. I don't think you've read it thorougly which annoys me abit because i find myself having to repeat.

There are few reasons.

1) Simply, to get rid of another vocal player. At that time between Zenon,Ika,Nancy,Ren,Varcron,Martin, Ren was one of the more active players here. It makes the game eaiser to be powerwolfed (but there was no powerwolfing) by getting rid of player who has pretty high standard of play.

2) To seed chaos. We are essentially dumbfounded by why ren was killed. Am I wrong here? It helps scum if the town uses too much focus on why this player was killed over someone.

3) Ren would've gone for Martin the next day as he had you,zenon really low in his POE, and martin and I pretty high.

4) On top of all these, killing Ren opens up the opportunity for ika to be framed, which is what happened as both Varcron and I had suspected. If I remember correctly, it was the day before that Martin stated that I am not an alignment cop. Coincidence?

6) Again, I explained why I did not skip on zenon

7) Did I tr Yoshida more than Zenon - No. Yoshida flickered between extremely scummy and extremely towny. Not very much in between. I was willing to solve him there, but if you were there at the time of me posting, I wanted to play it safe by jailing him because we still had number advantage, therefore time. Zenon was null read until the very end. In hindsight she did very well spotting Stellaria and shooting her. But at the time it was completely NAI because Stella was going to die anyway as lynch so mafia killing another member for towncred is easy.

' you telling me how townie you think he’s been all game and despite all overwhelming evidence to the contrary was still suss on me but I’m supposed to now sr the player you keep calling townie by play, doesn’t help your situation any.' - yes that is exact predicament I find myself in. I ONLY know he is scum because I am not, and you are not. This is why I am not gonna be mad if I lose because Martin played it that well. If you see something in him that I do not, then do tell. Perhaps that is why Martin chose me to bring me to lylo because he knew that my scumhunting is weak.

9) On sussing you after REn was killed - I've claimed numerous time here and in our chat that the only reason I know Martin is scum is because of mech. Not because of reads. After Ren was NK, my top poe was Zenon. Zenon flipped town so who am i supposed to sus next? Someone that was somewhat townlean or martin who was my top TR all game? I don't really care about Ren's assessment because i like my own independent reads.

10) 'If it makes sense to you that Martin killed Ren for his reads, than it should also logically follow that you would tr me more than Martin, solely based on that' - You are twisting my words here. I Had to guess why ren was killed over me. I am not the scum that made that play so how am I supposed to know what was going inside Martin's head? Also Martin killing Ren because of Ren's read is one of several reasons I already stated in my post. Also I like doing my own reads. I want to develop my own skills, and I do take other's reads into consideration but that is where it stops. If I alter my reads based because someone more experienced than me has different reads, then I will never grow as a player. Not to mention Martin killing Ren for reads is mutually exclusive to why I should TR you more than Martin. Martin killed Ren because Ren was going for him next. So where does me TR you come into that factor?

[Nancy Drew 39]

@ika usdk waiting on your response to that but that post actually points away from Martin being scum.