S-FM A Forum Mafia Spring Beginning

[srceenplay]

Point Four is a good point and worth looking back at for context.

Fury did have a statement saying you was ok lynching "IF" he didn't change his nolynch stance.

[thedougler]

And that an hour before his vote he said was was good for lynching Varnic, but doesn't cast his vote until an hour later when the 4th is in? Why not vote then if he thinks the lynch is good. That was my concern there

This hadn't occurred to me, but I want to go a little more in depth on it. I can see why Fury would look like complete scum if he had called out Varnic earlier but waited for him to get to L-1 and swoop in for the hammer, but that's not exactly what happened. It looks like Fury was leaning more toward voting Enoch, but settled on Varnic as the day was drawing to a close and mustering a lynch on Enoch became impossible.

Before voting for Varnic, he said the following:

I agree that lynching Varnic would give us a good amount of information, so it seems logical to lynch him; however, I am extremely wary of Enoch. He's said nothing all game. Why wasn't he replaced? Unless he's scum and saying nothing is a strategy.

Though, perhaps lynching Enoch on the grounds that he isn't talking much isn't wise and going with the logical lynch based on the knowledge we have so far is better. For the remainder of day 1, it seems Rachyl is the only confirmed role. So, for the remainder of this day, she is the only one I won't consider voting. Also, Varnic please read my posts in regards to why lynching day 1 is correct. If he still stands by not lynching day 1, then I'm going to vote him as he's a useless town or scum.

Yes and the point being is that if he doesn't respond, then SJ should have replaced him. If he wasn't replaced, then does that indicate more heavily that he's scum? Perhaps that is metagaming too hard and I'm off-base.

Looks like he would rather have voted Enoch. If so I'm curious as to why he didn't even try to rally votes, or start by voting Enoch himself.

Either way Fury didn't want to be the first to vote, whether we went for Enoch or Varnic. He was happy to pile his vote on at the end though...

IF Enoch is town, and that's a BIG if... Then it sort of looks like Fury was convincing others to vote first to avoid taking the fall for a mislynch. He is too cautious by far and I don't like it. This is an experienced player with little aversion to d1 lynching, so why wouldn't he put his money where his mouth was and try to lead a lynch?

[thedougler]

Then again, if Enoch is scum then Fury could be hedging his bets by piling meaningless accusations upon his scum partner with no intention to vote or drive the point too far.

[thedougler]

Then again, if Enoch is scum then Fury could be hedging his bets by piling meaningless accusations upon his scum partner with no intention to vote or drive the point too far.

I've successfully practiced this strategy myself as scum. I call it, "fighting fire with fire". You accuse your scum partner with his consent, then before the flames of suspicion get too hot you start another fire by accusing a townie. The second fire consumes all the oxygen and kills the first fire. But you can always point back to your earlier accusations if the latter turns out to be scum.

Fury didn't start the train on Varnic. For that I take full responsibility. But he definitely was okay with it. It will be interesting to see how hard he pushes against Enoch today.

[Rachyl]

Speaking of Enouch. Where is he??? Hes barely said anything all game! and Fury and Ccantman seem to be suspcious

[thedougler]

Speaking of Enouch. Where is he??? Hes barely said anything all game! and Fury and Ccantman seem to be suspcious

I've messaged SJ already. I have more to say regarding Enoch but I don't want to say it until SJ reveals whether or not Enoch is getting replaced.

[srceenplay]

I would rather lynch Fury than cantman.
Would like the mod
@SuperJack
To sort Enoch first before everyone goes vote crazy killing people before all info is gathered.

[SuperJack]

I'm awaiting a replacement for Enoch. He will most likely be replaced at the 24 hour of d2 =)

[thedougler]

I would rather lynch Fury than cantman.
Would like the mod
@SuperJack
To sort Enoch first before everyone goes vote crazy killing people before all info is gathered.

Everyone indulge me for a moment. Who among the rest of you would vote Fury over ccantman if the vote was just between those two? I mean hypothetically if you had to pick one or the other to lynch right at this second. @Rachyl , @Alijach , @Enoch ?

Last minute edit: Just saw SJ's post pop up. So would Enoch's replacement please respond to this after getting familiarized with the current state of affairs.

[thedougler]

Speaking of Enouch. Where is he??? Hes barely said anything all game! and Fury and Ccantman seem to be suspcious

Just curious to know, were you roleblocked last night? And @SuperJack , would he even know if he did get RBed?

[Rachyl]

Why are you trying to see who we might be on board with lynching? This seems really suspicious. As i said earlier, the mafia member likes to control the flow of whats going on. And it seems like youre trying too hard to find the mafia. And i dont know if I was roleblocked. Youre really suspicious Dougler.

[thedougler]

Why are you trying to see who we might be on board with lynching? This seems really suspicious. As i said earlier, the mafia member likes to control the flow of whats going on. And it seems like youre trying too hard to find the mafia. And i dont know if I was roleblocked. Youre really suspicious Dougler.

Well as to whether or not you know if you are roleblocked, it would ne suspicious if you were not. In any case, I think it's almost certain that you were.

I'm trying to tally potential votes before a lynch actualy happens. It would be interesting to see who supports lynching one over the other and their reasons why, do you not agree? Sure a poll like this is an imperfect substitute for an actual vote, and I don't doubt the evils will try to lie about how they would actually vote against one of their allies. I just want to see if anyone tries to engage in some blatant mental gymnastics to avoid denouncing an ally.

I prefer a lynch on Fury right now, but I want to catch his potential ally before it gets to an actual vote.

[Rachyl]

Well, i did heal someone last night and he didnt die, because mafia didnt go after him, they went after TwentyTwo.
Also, i feel like we should lynch Fury like you said

[srceenplay]

That would not be the reason he didn't die. You should be role blocked.

[Rachyl]

I just want to remind you guys that anybody that comes up against me is Mafia. As no one else counter claimed me.

[srceenplay]

Mod can u update the OP

[Fury]

Ok I just got back from the hell that was my first midterm. I will read through everything, and respond. On skimming, I noticed the dougler said I was very experienced and surely would check new posts when someone is at L-2. Honestly, I had just gotten back from wings and this is my first FM. If you've played with me in the mod, you'll know I've never been extremely cautious with my lynches when I'm convinced someone is evil. I will reply soon.

[Fury]

My thought process was that the fake doc is keeping the real doc alive. But I did forget in my analysis that Rachyl could be mafia and made the assumption she was town.



On current information. Fury's instant lynch is still questionable to me right now, so right now he has my vote

-vote fury

I already said that I made a mistake in not reviewing the posts. If you guys believe me to be an experienced player, yet also believe that I'd be spamming F5 waiting for new posts just so that I could hammer a vote through on day 1 immediately after, then you're delusional. I already said I made a mistake in not reviewing the new posts. It's my first FM game and this is a beginner game, so don't call me experienced here.

I think he's too experienced not to check new posts when someone is at L-2. The fact that he hammered Varnic isn't what bothers me, because Varnic was sketchy as all fuck and at least 2 other townies voted him with me yesterday for that reason. What bothers me is that Fury feels the need to defend himself in this way. I'm not going to say for certain he's a liar, but the way he is framing his actions makes him highly suspect.

I explained myself because it limited discussion, not because I hammered a vote. I was embarassed because I cut down on discussion by hammering the vote, not because I hammered the vote in the first place. Like I said, he was to be voted regardless.

Also metagaming a bit here, but TwentyTwo and Fury are the most experienced players here. Fury could best identify other experienced players, and would want to pick them off fast.

This is silly because you and Rachyl are also very experienced. Anyone who has played the mod would clearly know that TwentyTwo was the most experienced one here. I'm not the only person who can click the help log and view games played.

Alijach was eager to "follow the train"...

The logic here is flawed because as long as Varnic stays alive, he can potentially rebuild our trust. It just seems like he's looking at the situation from a very "mafia-centric" viewpoint. He wants to lynch Varnic not because he thinks Varnic is scum, but because the mafia won't ever kill him now that he's made himself a suspect. He ignores how easily this plays into the mafia's hands if Varnic is town.

I agree on this point, and look to Alijach as well.

Ccantman seems to specialize in long, rambling posts that never quite point the finger of suspicion on anyone too heavily. It seems like he is "involved" just for the sake of being involved. The one time he does go out on a limb, it is against what turns out to be our doc:

I agree and he was the one who immediately tried to vote me just because I fucked up. However, checking point #1 of mine would reveal how foolish it is to think I intentionally hammered a vote despite being experienced.

To be continued...

[Fury]

As much as I think Fury shouldn't be trying to excuse his vote if he's town, making a big deal about the fact that he was the last to vote is exactly what I would expect mafia to do. Especially considering ccantman also voted Varnic. Ccantman was second guessing himself even as he was voting Varnic, as if he could use it in a future defense by saying "look I didn't really suspect him but I felt pressured by the majority to vote". Fury at least outwardly believed Varnic was scum as he was voting.

Once again, I am not making a big deal about being the last to vote. I am embarrassed because I cut down on several hours of discussion.

[Fury]

This hadn't occurred to me, but I want to go a little more in depth on it. I can see why Fury would look like complete scum if he had called out Varnic earlier but waited for him to get to L-1 and swoop in for the hammer, but that's not exactly what happened. It looks like Fury was leaning more toward voting Enoch, but settled on Varnic as the day was drawing to a close and mustering a lynch on Enoch became impossible.

Before voting for Varnic, he said the following:







Looks like he would rather have voted Enoch. If so I'm curious as to why he didn't even try to rally votes, or start by voting Enoch himself.

Either way Fury didn't want to be the first to vote, whether we went for Enoch or Varnic. He was happy to pile his vote on at the end though...

IF Enoch is town, and that's a BIG if... Then it sort of looks like Fury was convincing others to vote first to avoid taking the fall for a mislynch. He is too cautious by far and I don't like it. This is an experienced player with little aversion to d1 lynching, so why wouldn't he put his money where his mouth was and try to lead a lynch?

After reading my logic in my latest post, I hope everyone can stop jumping down my throat for voting so soon. Yes, I would have rather voted for Enoch, but I'd rather lynch someone I think is guilty than to lynch someone just for not talking much day 1. By that logic, what if TwentyTwo didn't replace someone and the guy who got replaced remained afk? We would have lynched a sheriff and given 0 chance for him to claim a role and perhaps counterclaim Rachyl's doc claim. Also, I think it silly that we assume Rachyl is guaranteed doctor when consort is in the game. She knew she'd be roleblocked all game, so surely she isn't doctor?

[Fury]

I just want to remind you guys that anybody that comes up against me is Mafia. As no one else counter claimed me.

Claiming doctor day 1 when a consort is in the game and not everyone is participating in the game means that for all we know Enoch can be doctor. In all honesty, until Enoch speaks or gets replaced, the role doctor is still unknown.

[Fury]

Why are you trying to see who we might be on board with lynching? This seems really suspicious. As i said earlier, the mafia member likes to control the flow of whats going on. And it seems like youre trying too hard to find the mafia. And i dont know if I was roleblocked. Youre really suspicious Dougler.

Well as to whether or not you know if you are roleblocked, it would ne suspicious if you were not. In any case, I think it's almost certain that you were.

I'm trying to tally potential votes before a lynch actualy happens. It would be interesting to see who supports lynching one over the other and their reasons why, do you not agree? Sure a poll like this is an imperfect substitute for an actual vote, and I don't doubt the evils will try to lie about how they would actually vote against one of their allies. I just want to see if anyone tries to engage in some blatant mental gymnastics to avoid denouncing an ally.

I prefer a lynch on Fury right now, but I want to catch his potential ally before it gets to an actual vote.

Well, i did heal someone last night and he didnt die, because mafia didnt go after him, they went after TwentyTwo.
Also, i feel like we should lynch Fury like you said

This is not controlling the flow?

[Fury]

Anways, now that I'm caught up with the posts, I'd just like to say in summary:

Lynching Enoch before he can say anything would have been a mistake. For all we know he could have been sheriff or doctor. I think Rachyl is likely doctor (now), but I will wait for Enoch to roleclaim or be replaced to be more certain. The logic saying I was experienced so I'd know who to kill, yet then further stating that I'd be eager to hammer a vote is inherently flawed. If I was evil and experienced, then surely I'd take more precaution as to avoid that exact scenario?

And lastly, once these posts of mine have been digested, it should be made clear that all opposition against me is rooted in the plain fact that I'm experienced, yet hammered a vote - this is conflicting.

[Fury]

I am off to get some food. Midterms have been sucking me dry.

[thedougler]

Claiming doctor day 1 when a consort is in the game and not everyone is participating in the game means that for all we know Enoch can be doctor. In all honesty, until Enoch speaks or gets replaced, the role doctor is still unknown.

I agree it was a massive misplay on Rachyl's part to claim doc with 1 pressure vote on her. But unless Enoch was the real doc I think anyone else who has waited this long to counterclaim Rachyl HAS to be scum. They would have prevented a mislynch yesterday and we'd have lynched a maf guaranteed.

[thedougler]

In any case I'm waiting for Enoch or his replacement to speak before I vote anyone. Before we hear from him we aren't working with all the information.

[Fury]

I agree it was a massive misplay on Rachyl's part to claim doc with 1 pressure vote on her. But unless Enoch was the real doc I think anyone else who has waited this long to counterclaim Rachyl HAS to be scum. They would have prevented a mislynch yesterday and we'd have lynched a maf guaranteed.

Your post kind of rehashed my point that either Rachyl is doctor or Enoch is. I do believe Rachyl to be doctor though, since Enoch could be evil for all we know.

[Fury]

Did you read my logic though? Does it make sense?

[thedougler]

Did you read my logic though? Does it make sense?

And lastly, once these posts of mine have been digested, it should be made clear that all opposition against me is rooted in the plain fact that I'm experienced, yet hammered a vote - this is conflicting.

I think you can be experienced and scumslip at the same time. You don't exactly seem like you're throwing your mistake under the rug, but you aren't pointing fingers at anyone else who voted Varnic either. It just seems like you have a guilty conscience.

[Fury]

I think you can be experienced and scumslip at the same time. You don't exactly seem like you're throwing your mistake under the rug, but you aren't pointing fingers at anyone else who voted Varnic either. It just seems like you have a guilty conscience.

Fair enough. I just wanted to make the point that hammering in a vote 3 minutes after someone isn't a scumslip for an experienced player.

[Fury]

Honestly, I want to wait for Enoch's (assumed) replacement, since everyone is talking about a mafia member and his ally, yet for all we know mafia could be working with one player right now.

[SuperJack]

@Enoch has been replaced.

@Gyrlander is now playing.

But they are European, so don't expect anything till The morning =p

[SuperJack]

Just curious to know, were you roleblocked last night? And @SuperJack , would he even know if he did get RBed?

When asking questions, try not to load them.
Roleblocking does not leave feedback.

[srceenplay]

Ty

[srceenplay]

Grylander. We are waiting on your thoughts as soon as possible.

[Fury]

Above all else, I just want to be able to confirm Rachyl as doctor. So, Gyrlander please confirm that you're not doctor >.<

[Fury]

Even though it would mean the true doctor would die the following night, it would affirmatively lynch Rachyl who, in that universe, would be mafia. I do believe her when she claims it, as it is probabilistically unlikely that Enoch (now Gyrlander) is doctor, but it would give town someone to rally behind.

[Fury]

Now I am to disappear into the shroud which is my next midterm. See you on the other side, people. If you see me surface in the next 18 or so hours, then I am a procrastinating mother fucker.

[thedougler]

Even though it would mean the true doctor would die the following night, it would affirmatively lynch Rachyl who, in that universe, would be mafia. I do believe her when she claims it, as it is probabilistically unlikely that Enoch (now Gyrlander) is doctor, but it would give town someone to rally behind.

It's still possible for Gyrlander to lie and claim doc just to get Rachyl lynched, but if that's the case we would just lynch him the next day and it would be 1 maf vs 3 remaining townies. I don't expect Gyrlander will lie either way.

[Gyrlander]

Hello guys. Er... I can't actually confirm if I'm Doctor because SJ forgot to send me my rolecard so... I'll wait until that happens. Also, as there is a lot to read I will need some time and now I'm going to school, so don't expect much from me unless I get some free time.

[Gyrlander]

Wtf you guys were asking if I was doc so much that I thought there had been a roleclaim or something but that wasn't the case at all...

[Gyrlander]

Okey, I do not counterclaim

[ccantman]

There was a role claim Day 1

[Rachyl]

Yep, exactly. Noone is gonna counterclaim me, because i am the real doctor. And i have a pretty good idea of who one of the mafia is, but im going to wait till accusing them for a little while longer just to see what else they have to say.

[thedougler]

Yep, exactly. Noone is gonna counterclaim me, because i am the real doctor. And i have a pretty good idea of who one of the mafia is, but im going to wait till accusing them for a little while longer just to see what else they have to say.

As the only confirmed town here I think you should lead the lynch today anyway. It won't guarantee no mislynch, but at least you won't purposefully be leading us astray.

[thedougler]

@SuperJack Could you please post the day 2 timer? I can't seem to find it on page 5.

[ccantman]

The day should end in about 8 hours.

That being said, we need more discussion folks, we already lost a whole day waiting for a replacement. got it, and have still been at a standstill for the past half day.

I have my vote on Fury, and no one really has said anything to make me want to take my vote off him.

If we stay like this, we pass day 2 without a lynch, which only benefits the Mafia at this point.

Either you think I'm mafia and everything I say is bull, or think I'm not mafia, in which case 2 of the others need to be mafia, but right now, no one is saying anything excepting they are waiting to bait. Well if we continue to wait, nothing is going to happen. The clock is ticking.

[ccantman]

This past day has shown me why its so important to just start accusing people day 1. This lack of action slows any and all information. I now understand why my request for day 1 skip looks so bad.


it would be nice if we could get some input from Gyrlander. I know its almost 300 posts of information to gawk. But we still have no idea what his stance on anything is. It would also be good just to get a fresh opinion on everything

[thedougler]

The day should end in about 8 hours.

That being said, we need more discussion folks, we already lost a whole day waiting for a replacement. got it, and have still been at a standstill for the past half day.

I have my vote on Fury, and no one really has said anything to make me want to take my vote off him.

If we stay like this, we pass day 2 without a lynch, which only benefits the Mafia at this point.

Either you think I'm mafia and everything I say is bull, or think I'm not mafia, in which case 2 of the others need to be mafia, but right now, no one is saying anything excepting they are waiting to bait. Well if we continue to wait, nothing is going to happen. The clock is ticking.

Oddly enough I've come to trust Fury over the past 48 hours. And you to a lesser extent. The people I don't trust are Alijach and SP.

SP was too combative by far on d1, and Alijach has been very quiet today. He claims it's for his father's surgery but idk what to believe anymore. SP also didn't vote on Varnic. I expect the mafia would have diversified by having one of their guys vote Varnic and the other not vote. SP and Enoch/Gyrlander are the only ones living who didn't vote. If Enoch was truly AFK that leaves SP as the scum trying to avoid attention.

[thedougler]

-vote srceenplay