S-FM 352: ★ Silent Night 2 ★

[ikarusdk]

I have no clue how to feel about Arrow constantly called kuti a jester, that's the most notable thing in their iso, and its not townke whatsoever

This is something that bothered me a bit at SoD2

[Ultra]

I mean I knew this was coming
Anyways

-vote dark magician

Get rid of this next lol

[Stellaria]

I have no clue how to feel about Arrow constantly called kuti a jester, that's the most notable thing in their iso, and its not townke whatsoever

kinda strikes me as a newb thing but I dunno

[Wiisp]

Get rid of this next lol

why?

[Wiisp]

seriously why? i wasnt lying, when I said "I knew this was coming", i literally alluded to this in my first post, it was a pre rand discussion. They didnt have too much time for this game.
do u want me to plop my vote on kuti as well? what does that change? nothing

[macdougall]

Got nothing to add anymore. Hopefully Kuti isn't town cuz if they are I'd expect at least a retort to Achro's accusation of lying about their role.

[Wiisp]

Got nothing to add anymore. Hopefully Kuti isn't town cuz if they are I'd expect at least a retort to Achro's accusation of lying about their role.

i mean their only proof is that nobody has claimed anything in terms of a gift, from my understanding

[Achro]

i mean their only proof is that nobody has claimed anything in terms of a gift, from my understanding

I have more proof than this, I just don't feel the need to say with me hopefully exiting the game on my own tomorrow.

[Wiisp]

i mean u lying just means we kill u tmr, if they flip exactly what they claimed as town
so /shrug

[Achro]

i mean u lying just means we kill u tmr, if they flip exactly what they claimed as town
so /shrug

well, they claimed to give out gifts last night.

I am pretty confident that's not true.

[Ultra]

seriously why? i wasnt lying, when I said "I knew this was coming", i literally alluded to this in my first post, it was a pre rand discussion. They didnt have too much time for this game.
do u want me to plop my vote on kuti as well? what does that change? nothing

They're probably scum but time or no time there's no reason to pivot based on what they provided, bad.

[Achro]

to be fair kuti is currently at -1 so all another vote does is end the day, @Ultra

[Wiisp]

They're probably scum but time or no time there's no reason to pivot based on what they provided, bad.

im not pivoting, im just placing my vote, where i want
@Achro
day does not end early if majority is reached

[macdougall]

i mean their only proof is that nobody has claimed anything in terms of a gift, from my understanding

That's not my point. My point is that a town with a verifiable claim being accused by a neutral of lying should do more than go belly up and tell us they're okay with chopping them to "progress the game".

Seems more likely just antispew.

[Achro]

Anyway I had a one use ability where I could redirect someone to me. I wanted a gift. I didn't get a gift. So now I am a sad neutral.

[Wiisp]

That's not my point. My point is that a town with a verifiable claim being accused by a neutral of lying should do more than go belly up and tell us they're okay with chopping them to "progress the game".

Seems more likely just antispew.

i mean u can read into w/e
if they are mafia, its not antispew, that much i am certain

[Wiisp]

Anyway I had a one use ability where I could redirect someone to me. I wanted a gift. I didn't get a gift. So now I am a sad neutral.

fair enough

[macdougall]

i mean u can read into w/e
if they are mafia, its not antispew, that much i am certain

Antispew in that they are simply not posting at all to avoid spewing people. Standard belly up mafia antispew.

Let me be very clear. If they are town, and they can verify their claim, and they are being wrongly accused of lying and are simply town, they should not and I believe would not simply allow themselves to die without a fight or without at least clearing up the mech stuff. And if they are, then they are badly misplaying needlessly when they could simply say "I am actually real, and I sent so and so a message". Kuti is a good town player, so I err on the side of antispew over them being this willfully anti town as town.

If they are real, and town, then in their perspective the person who they sent the gift to that has said nothing should be suspicious to them for allowing this to progress as far as it has.

If they are town and lied about their role just for shits and giggles, they should at least say that and allow us to assess with a full set of information. That is the least they can do.

The fact they are just giving up without talking is almost certainly antispew if they are mafia and heavily heavily indicative that they are not town. How exactly would it not be?

[macdougall]

Okay now that Achro has elaborated.

A town here with a real role would say "I holstered my role based on the discussions we had on day 1 about my ability potentially backfiring".

Then we would all go "ooooooh that makes sense". Particularly given Kuti said that they would.

And then we would all stew for a bit, chop them and they would flip town.

However Kuti did not even give us the courtesy of that. It is probably because Kuti doesn't want to actually say anything remotely readable for spew and get engaged in back and forth with people.

However, as per the above, it's not impossible Kuti is just too busy and cbf, but it's pretty disappointing that they'd let us miselim them like this if they are. I'd be surprised if the town will be able to come back from it if Kuti flips town.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

to be fair kuti is currently at -1 so all another vote does is end the day, @Ultra

There's no majority lynch, according to setup
and yes, it's weird, we never do that here lol
but the game is so cool I shan't cry

That being said... WHY IN THE WORLD IS EVERYONE THINKING KUTI IS THE BEST LYNCH OUT OF LITERALLY EVERYONE? I guess I have to go catch-up mode again, but damnit lol, it just feels wrong.

[Wiisp]

There's no majority lynch, according to setup
and yes, it's weird, we never do that here lol
but the game is so cool I shan't cry

That being said... WHY IN THE WORLD IS EVERYONE THINKING KUTI IS THE BEST LYNCH OUT OF LITERALLY EVERYONE? I guess I have to go catch-up mode again, but damnit lol, it just feels wrong.

ur wolf equity keeps going up

[Achro]

There's no majority lynch, according to setup
and yes, it's weird, we never do that here lol
but the game is so cool I shan't cry

That being said... WHY IN THE WORLD IS EVERYONE THINKING KUTI IS THE BEST LYNCH OUT OF LITERALLY EVERYONE? I guess I have to go catch-up mode again, but damnit lol, it just feels wrong.

well

we have confirmation that one of three people in you/dm/kuti is a wolf (at least)
I have information that kuti did not try to give presents like promised n1 (I redirected them to me)
DM is one of the two mediums so it feels like a good idea to keep that alive so martin's green peek can be 100% not manipulated with both mediums alive.

What's the disconnect for you?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

ur wolf equity keeps going up

lol, sure I'm wolf for going against LITERALLY EVERYONE APPARENTLY because I am confused as for why we're lynching the cat
yes, wolf!MM sure loves that attention! /s /joke /not really

More seriously, this reasoning doesn't make any sense. Like what, you think scum!me is trying to protect scum!Kuti now, when over half the thread is against him?? That's absolute nonsense. At best, you could be saying I'm scum with TMI whiteknighting LHF town!Kuti - which I don't think you're claiming, and which isn't true anyway.

well

we have confirmation that one of three people in you/dm/kuti is a wolf (at least)
I have information that kuti did not try to give presents like promised n1 (I redirected them to me)
DM is one of the two mediums so it feels like a good idea to keep that alive so martin's green peek can be 100% not manipulated with both mediums alive.

What's the disconnect for you?

Well, presented mechanically like this, it does look compelling enough lol (also, I just saw your claim about trying to get gifts through redirection, this info wasn't available before).
As for DM... well, I still absolutely think he's scum, but I guess if both mediums have the ability to post the confirmed town regardless of their death, it works... unless mafia, having scum medium relay information, just kills Martin's peek instead of the other medium lol. Am I wrong there?

The main disconnect I see is that behavior-wise, I just don't see it. I see a low-effort town who just tends to go "angry" at times (cf. D1 post about people not sharing holidays). All of this just feels too easy and railroaded, and I'm apparently the only real opposition (WHICH IS NOT SCUMMY, BUT PROBABLY RATHER TOWNY, WISP. You're probably scum with DM anyway.), which makes little sense for scum!Kuti world. Noone has really acted SvS towards them, as far as I can see.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Okay now that Achro has elaborated.

A town here with a real role would say "I holstered my role based on the discussions we had on day 1 about my ability potentially backfiring".

Then we would all go "ooooooh that makes sense". Particularly given Kuti said that they would.

And then we would all stew for a bit, chop them and they would flip town.

However Kuti did not even give us the courtesy of that. It is probably because Kuti doesn't want to actually say anything remotely readable for spew and get engaged in back and forth with people.

However, as per the above, it's not impossible Kuti is just too busy and cbf, but it's pretty disappointing that they'd let us miselim them like this if they are. I'd be surprised if the town will be able to come back from it if Kuti flips town.

For the record, Kuti did say they would holster on D1, iirc. Looking it up...

Here:

Idk I just should holster

[Marshmallow Marshall]

For the record, Kuti did say they would holster on D1, iirc. Looking it up...

Here:

@Achro does your ability only *redirect* actions?

[macdougall]

well

we have confirmation that one of three people in you/dm/kuti is a wolf (at least)
I have information that kuti did not try to give presents like promised n1 (I redirected them to me)
DM is one of the two mediums so it feels like a good idea to keep that alive so martin's green peek can be 100% not manipulated with both mediums alive.

What's the disconnect for you?

And Kuti is in antispew/not posting at all ie. not trying.

[macdougall]

For the record, Kuti did say they would holster on D1, iirc. Looking it up...

Here:

Yeah so why not just say "I holstered"?

[Achro]

I don't know why they would holster with town reads and apparently wanting to maybe die n1 tho

Like true they can be town but why not just say that but also what's the benefit of holstering

Idgi

[Achro]

lol, sure I'm wolf for going against LITERALLY EVERYONE APPARENTLY because I am confused as for why we're lynching the cat
yes, wolf!MM sure loves that attention! /s /joke /not really

More seriously, this reasoning doesn't make any sense. Like what, you think scum!me is trying to protect scum!Kuti now, when over half the thread is against him?? That's absolute nonsense. At best, you could be saying I'm scum with TMI whiteknighting LHF town!Kuti - which I don't think you're claiming, and which isn't true anyway.



Well, presented mechanically like this, it does look compelling enough lol (also, I just saw your claim about trying to get gifts through redirection, this info wasn't available before).
As for DM... well, I still absolutely think he's scum, but I guess if both mediums have the ability to post the confirmed town regardless of their death, it works... unless mafia, having scum medium relay information, just kills Martin's peek instead of the other medium lol. Am I wrong there?

The main disconnect I see is that behavior-wise, I just don't see it. I see a low-effort town who just tends to go "angry" at times (cf. D1 post about people not sharing holidays). All of this just feels too easy and railroaded, and I'm apparently the only real opposition (WHICH IS NOT SCUMMY, BUT PROBABLY RATHER TOWNY, WISP. You're probably scum with DM anyway.), which makes little sense for scum!Kuti world. Noone has really acted SvS towards them, as far as I can see.

Possibly but also wolves bus too but

You think it's wisp/dm/? Atm?

[Stellaria]

I think kuti said she'd holster because she doesn't want to give anyone a suicide button, even though that's a 33% chance

[Dark Magician]

I take it you think Me/DK are different alignments?
What about Me/MM?

[Wiisp]

there isnt anything townie by being the opposition in the way u are, which is basically just shading the gamestate before u dont know anything

[Wiisp]

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

[Achro]

if kuti is town I am marking one of mm/dm 100% btw

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Possibly but also wolves bus too but

You think it's wisp/dm/? Atm?

Yes. Gun to head, the ? is Arrow (he's relatively scummy/commits the heinous crime of not being towny/fits in pretty much every possible scum team).

Yes, wolves bus too, but it feels like Kuti never had any resistance to their lynch (barring myself). Noone ever really defended them or distracted from them actively, as far as I can tell. That isn't normal.
@macdougall not trying isn't necessarily antispew, it can be tons of stuff

Like, I'm not 100 % confident Kuti is town, but I'm far from convinced of the opposite. And if they flip town, we're just going to be in a state of deep sorrow. @Kutiplz you ought to come here and show you're town.

In the event Kuti just doesn't come back at all in a reasonable timespan today, I'll be forced to consider their lynch, simply because we'll never be able to trust them fully and the whole thread is just going to have their noses stuck on Kuti instead of solving. Until then, no.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

there isnt anything townie by being the opposition in the way u are, which is basically just shading the gamestate before u dont know anything

I mean, I may not be an amazingly skilled scum player, but I'm still not a bloody newbie lol. It's just so terribly easy for scum!MM to lay low and push scum!Kuti (or town!Kuti, tbh), whereas doing what I'm doing right now is ridiculously putting a spotlight on me. There is NO POINT in doing this for scum!MM. And besides, the fact you're just blatantly ignoring everything else I've done is strange at best.

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

Yeah, no. You're scum. If it weren't for the carol, you'd be enjoying my vote in your face right now.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Yeah so why not just say "I holstered"?

I am not saying Kuti is playing optimally, because it's obviously not true lmao. But playing suboptimally =/= being scum

At this point, though, there's only so much I can do to convince y'all if Kuti doesn't just come and speak for themselves.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Claimwise I like kuti, I don't like DMs claim, nor their handling of pressure, the way they have talked to people, nor there vote on DK it bothers for a different reason depending on what world we are in

I actually still kinda dislike DK, but they have some super pure posts

I'd probably say there is always a wolf in dk/dm

Idk how I feel about MM, I don't like their vote on me, I guess I could understand why someone thinks me not caring between banana and Mac is wolfy buts nots really, since I was clear I didn't care, and even had paranoia on Mac flipping town. Just not sure how u read my eod and think I have some kind of agenda

I also don't think MM has anything going for them either. Their votes imo have been super opportunistic, and really hate their vote swap from me onto kuti, I think if anyone is trying to actually push an agenda it's them.

If kuti didn't want to die, I'd always vote in MM or DM over them

What the hell?
- Opportunistic votes : where, how, why? Looking at my own vote history using the tool: voted Achro early to get info out, and whether you like it or not, the current consensus about him is here thanks to me; moved on Martin due to the "cat towncore" thing, then moved away because his response was towny + because the way he read me was very accurate (as in, he was actually trying to read my mind), then Ultra due to the misunderstanding, ended up kinda townreading him for his later reaction; then DM and Mac were my scumreads (held the Mac one until some point into D2 because I kinda understood how he thinks lol, but the DM one still stands). Nothing opportunistic in here, everything is EXPLICITELY EXPLAINED in my ISO, which you seem to either not have read or blatantly ignore.
- I have never even voted Kuti. Ever.
- What the heck is the "agenda" you see? You're just using it as a buzzword lol.

I have no clue how to feel about Arrow constantly called kuti a jester, that's the most notable thing in their iso, and its not townke whatsoever

Ah yes, a post to say "Hey idk about this" and then zero follow-up whatsoever, no questions, no vote, nothing. And - O coincidence! - it's about Arrow, your likely scummate!

D i e

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I didn't see anything in Marshmallow Marshall's ISO that I actually liked.

And calling me Stellaris was not cute, dude. Seriously, not cool.

How you gonna say that pushing Banana over Arrow was the better play Day 1 and not have any actions or words back that up? The dude is all macaroni and no cheese. Smh

Sigh... I said the exact opposite. No offense, but if you can't read, that is unfortunately not my fault. What even are your overall reads? All you've done is get caught by Banana's "hydra" trolling lol. And excuse me if I'm a little rude, but you're not particularly sympathetic to me with your name waah waaah guilt trip when you've done basically NOTHING OF USE this game and then proceed to sum up my ISO by "nothing i like" lol. If I'm all macarani and no cheese, you're an empty bowl.

(Nothing personal. Also, I didn't say you were Stellaris, Achro did. And it's a cool game nonetheless :P)

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Sigh... I said the exact opposite. No offense, but if you can't read, that is unfortunately not my fault. What even are your overall reads? All you've done is get caught by Banana's "hydra" trolling lol. And excuse me if I'm a little rude, but you're not particularly sympathetic to me with your name waah waaah guilt trip when you've done basically NOTHING OF USE this game and then proceed to sum up my ISO by "nothing i like" lol. If I'm all macarani and no cheese, you're an empty bowl.

(Nothing personal. Also, I didn't say you were Stellaris, Achro did. And it's a cool game nonetheless :P)

Oh and since I get the feeling you don't read the thread all that much: @Stellaria
because I do want your overall reads

[ikarusdk]

Kuti might have just holstered to avoid giving suicide gift, which I could understand but if I'm looking at it correctly, kuti could've very well have said well don't use the gift after handing iy out.

Don't think the role speculation should be the sole reason for kuti to be lynched.

I am more or less convinced I shouldn't vote someone for their lack of participation because of how I most always end up lynching town.

The reason I think kuti should go.

The flip would reveal a lot of info - regardless of role.

1. If kuti flips town, then dm/mm or even dm and mm should be considered - i should probably think harder about their interaction thus far, but on top of my head, distancing from wolf teammate isn't outside mm's wolf range I've observed. Although they could very well be TvW or even TvN. If we had time, I'd like to give dark the benefit of the doubt and at least hear about what he leanred during the night. W!MM cannot kill T!DM at this point once Kuti gets chopped for obvious reasons and vice versa. So DM has time till we decide to yeet him. If kuti is green, and one of DM or MM is killed, that means the player that is left is most likely neutral.

2. If kuti flips Jester (because of indication of being fine or wanting to be lynched, therefore lacking in WIM as town - i hope as town, kuti wouldnt be so antitown)

3. However if kuti flips wolf, I don't know if I want to die on arrow Hill. As much as I think arrow could've very well kept reinforcing the idea of kuti being Jester, thus encouraging towns to vote more concerning slots, how likely is it that Arrow would do such a thing? I mean, sure yes they can easily coordinate that but kuti has been clear about not wanting to play because of lumi missing and due to rl issues. Arrow is one flip away from being the next poe because kuti flipping wolf automatically makes me suspicious of arrow

[ikarusdk]

Well I'll fix the point 2 and 3. I realised my draft was posted and I closed the final tab.

I will be back soon but I gotta do some chores forst

[Dark Magician]

Wait.
Explain to me how one of us have to be Neutral?

[Dark Magician]

Oh I read that wrong sorry.
You’re just saying if Kuti is town one of us have to either be mafia or neutral.

Thought you were saying one of us is wolf and the other is neutral.

[Dark Magician]

“Us” being me and MM.

[ikarusdk]

2. We should leave DM alone for the similar reasons as point 1. The diff is that DM and MM could kill each other without outing themselves.


3. But I meant to add that some of us did read Kuti Jester too and I know I am town, so that doesn't automatically make him wolf - there is always a chance whoever smelled it dealt it... but in this case it is also towny to point it out first. I guess what I'm trying to say is arrow could have both scum and town agenda

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Kuti might have just holstered to avoid giving suicide gift, which I could understand but if I'm looking at it correctly, kuti could've very well have said well don't use the gift after handing iy out.

Don't think the role speculation should be the sole reason for kuti to be lynched.

I am more or less convinced I shouldn't vote someone for their lack of participation because of how I most always end up lynching town.

The reason I think kuti should go.

The flip would reveal a lot of info - regardless of role.

1. If kuti flips town, then dm/mm or even dm and mm should be considered - i should probably think harder about their interaction thus far, but on top of my head, distancing from wolf teammate isn't outside mm's wolf range I've observed. Although they could very well be TvW or even TvN. If we had time, I'd like to give dark the benefit of the doubt and at least hear about what he leanred during the night. W!MM cannot kill T!DM at this point once Kuti gets chopped for obvious reasons and vice versa. So DM has time till we decide to yeet him. If kuti is green, and one of DM or MM is killed, that means the player that is left is most likely neutral.

2. If kuti flips Jester (because of indication of being fine or wanting to be lynched, therefore lacking in WIM as town - i hope as town, kuti wouldnt be so antitown)

3. However if kuti flips wolf, I don't know if I want to die on arrow Hill. As much as I think arrow could've very well kept reinforcing the idea of kuti being Jester, thus encouraging towns to vote more concerning slots, how likely is it that Arrow would do such a thing? I mean, sure yes they can easily coordinate that but kuti has been clear about not wanting to play because of lumi missing and due to rl issues. Arrow is one flip away from being the next poe because kuti flipping wolf automatically makes me suspicious of arrow

Hm, I must admit that from an external point of view basing on the carol, this is a pretty good plan. Note that I am absolutely always happy with lynching DM here though (and if you're gonna say "but medium!!", know that scum medium can just tell his scum team who Martin's clear is so that wolves kill the clear first, so I fear all of this is useless as hell).

[ikarusdk]

Oh I read that wrong sorry.
You’re just saying if Kuti is town one of us have to either be mafia or neutral.

Thought you were saying one of us is wolf and the other is neutral.

Yeah but of course there is a chance both of you being mafia or neutral too.

I think carol in my previous game contained 2 non towns but in other game there was only one.

[ikarusdk]

Hm, I must admit that from an external point of view basing on the carol, this is a pretty good plan. Note that I am absolutely always happy with lynching DM here though (and if you're gonna say "but medium!!", know that scum medium can just tell his scum team who Martin's clear is so that wolves kill the clear first, so I fear all of this is useless as hell).

Or wolf medium can just relay the actual info, hope that the wolf mate gets chopped to gain towncred. This is why I am paranoid about DM. For the same reason people cannot trust my carol 100%.

Having said that, I believe DM living past at least day 2 is much more helpful to town than lynching him here.

[ikarusdk]

Yeah but of course there is a chance both of you being mafia or neutral too.

I think carol in my previous game contained 2 non towns but in other game there was only one.

Lol I misread your post too.

I mean.... I wouldn't be surprised if one of you is mafia and the other neutral too.