Afkheartattack modification/Dead investigation

[louiswill]

1.Allow Sheriff and investigator to visit dead people in the graveyard.

Though they are not as useful as coroner but they can go visit dead people to check their roles/alignment

I understand that the Sheriff and Investigator won't be as great as a Coroner at checking the dead. However, in several situations, it doesn't even matter. As long as the Investigator sees the potential roles the guy could've been, he's practically got the information a Coroner would give.
Sure, Coroner can see where people went and maybe find Cultists, Mass Murderers, and the like, but a cleaning usually just warrants a role-check, making the Coroner obsolete (since he can only check the dead, unlike the improved other investigative roles).
Sorry if this is a bit all over the place, but I think the point gets across.

Beside the most simple Excel type role crossing strategy,

I will list a few of the most powerful Coroner play:
1. Evidently Figures Disguiser/informat action
2. Mafia's targets
3. Janitor cleaned Spy/sheriff/investigator/vigilante last will
4. Mason leader's conversion/purge
5. Cultists' possible conversion
6. Witch presence (if last will doesn't match actual actions)
7. Busdriver's night swapping target
...etc etc etc

Those are the strongest reason that coroner is not substitutable in general.

Even if investigative roles are allowed to check dead people, those information listed above are unique for coroner.



2(only if 1 is accepted). hide AFKauto killed person's role in graveyard.

I think this would be fair that no faction gain bonus information from Auto-afk-extra role card flipping.







Some shitsetup would be more fun by afk-auto janitor job.

[Aldaris]

Hiding their role would be a free janitor screen. Doing that would severely limit the town's ability to role call and win.

[Xentios]

I am a mafia player and i found this complicated

Other than that i think we should go slowly, let afk heart-attack system has a solid ground first.

[louiswill]

Hiding their role would be a free janitor screen. Doing that would severely limit the town's ability to role call and win.

Thats why buffing sheriff and investigator to check dead people if they want to.

Mafia won't know if doctors are all dead neither.

Also because framer can not frame dead person, the results are often more truthful, though less useful than investigating an alive person.

I am a mafia player and i found this complicated

Other than that i think we should go slowly, let afk heart-attack system has a solid ground first.

I do believe in that the heart attack so far made games better than before.

However, I can't lie as effecient when the counter claim may appear in graveyard due to afk-heartattacking.

Day A:
"Im a doctor!
"Everyone vote innocent!"

Day A+1:
XXX got a heart attack, he is a Doctor!

"Lynch that liar!"

[Arrow]

Of course, the system is intended to prevent AFKs, and if the doctor wasn't AFK, he should generally be counterclaiming you anyways if there's no other possible doctor spawn. Don't see how this seriously changes the strategy, since any claim that relies on another player being AFK to not counterclaim you is generally a pretty poor claim.

[louiswill]

Of course, the system is intended to prevent AFKs, and if the doctor wasn't AFK, he should generally be counterclaiming you anyways if there's no other possible doctor spawn. Don't see how this seriously changes the strategy, since any claim that relies on another player being AFK to not counterclaim you is generally a pretty poor claim.

counter claiming,
which is fair, because the doctor out himself, however, a counter claim can never be as strong as flipping role card.

Town suppose to be nervous on their decision of which side of stories to take,

but with a card flip in graveyard, stories are just chewless.

What kind mafia game it would be without some twisting plots involved?

we are not playing elementary school 1+1 = 2.

Some level of uncertainty is needed for entertaining purpose.

[ika]

counter claiming,
which is fair, because the doctor out himself, however, a counter claim can never be as strong as flipping role card.

Town suppose to be nervous on their decision of which side of stories to take,

but with a card flip in graveyard, stories are just chewless.

What kind mafia game it would be without some twisting plots involved?

we are not playing elementary school 1+1 = 2.

Some level of uncertainty is needed for entertaining purpose.

even if there is a cc, most ppl go guilty anyway

and if we are talking about a typical pub game, this is all moot becasue of how pubs act.

[louiswill]

even if there is a cc, most ppl go guilty anyway

and if we are talking about a typical pub game, this is all moot becasue of how pubs act.

Thats right.

Role flipping is much stronger than a cc.

Arrow thought a cc will happen so that the auto-kill is just as fair, but a cc is not enough to kill a faked claimer.

I have even walked off the trial by faking a crier in front of the real crier cc, just because I'm more like a town than him.

[McKinley]

even if there is a cc, most ppl go guilty anyway

and if we are talking about a typical pub game, this is all moot becasue of how pubs act.

I have to disagree. I have walked off the stage several times because no one has counter-claimed. The biggest thing about Mafia is communication. At least in my games, I'm talking my ass off. Making logical and rational stand-points while supporting active town-supporting (or those who appear to be) individuals while forcing silent and negative-talking members to go under the spot light. Just because some pubs are bad, does not mean we should instantly think the intent of Mafia is thrown out of the window in a public match.

[Turbonerd]

I understand that the Sheriff and Investigator won't be as great as a Coroner at checking the dead. However, in several situations, it doesn't even matter. As long as the Investigator sees the potential roles the guy could've been, he's practically got the information a Coroner would give.
Sure, Coroner can see where people went and maybe find Cultists, Mass Murderers, and the like, but a cleaning usually just warrants a role-check, making the Coroner obsolete (since he can only check the dead, unlike the improved other investigative roles).
Sorry if this is a bit all over the place, but I think the point gets across.

The second idea really only harms the Town, in my opinion. Two heart attacks results in two unknown roles. What are they? Protectives? Investigatives? It allows anyone to claim anything and tremendously hinders the Town's ability to get anything done logically. The first ability is required to make this one work, but the first ability isn't that great either.

[louiswill]

I understand that the Sheriff and Investigator won't be as great as a Coroner at checking the dead. However, in several situations, it doesn't even matter. As long as the Investigator sees the potential roles the guy could've been, he's practically got the information a Coroner would give.
Sure, Coroner can see where people went and maybe find Cultists, Mass Murderers, and the like, but a cleaning usually just warrants a role-check, making the Coroner obsolete (since he can only check the dead, unlike the improved other investigative roles).
Sorry if this is a bit all over the place, but I think the point gets across.

Beside the most simple Excel type role crossing strategy,

I will list a few of the most powerful Coroner play:
1. Evidently Figures Disguiser/informat action
2. Mafia's targets
3. Janitor cleaned Spy/sheriff/investigator/vigilante last will
4. Mason leader's conversion/purge
5. Cultists' possible conversion
6. Witch presence
7. Busdriver's night swapping target
...etc etc etc

Those are the strongest reason that coroner is not substitutable in general.

Even if investigative roles are allowed to check dead people, those information listed above are unique for coroner.

I doubt my suggestion will make coroner go obsolete.

Those who play coroner but only see the surface haven't touch the core power of a coroner yet.

The second idea really only harms the Town, in my opinion. Two heart attacks results in two unknown roles. What are they? Protectives? Investigatives? It allows anyone to claim anything and tremendously hinders the Town's ability to get anything done logically. The first ability is required to make this one work, but the first ability isn't that great either.

Thats why I put 2 after 1. 2 alone will be biased as you said. Totally correct.