S-FM 352: ★ Silent Night 2 ★

[ikarusdk]

Also I'm going to quote and answer one person at a time for the posts that were made after I left, so please give me some time.

[Stellaria]

im just gonna go out of my way to say this.

I've been busy so I haven't really been able to comment or explain myself about the things you guys were concerned about.

But the fact that Stellaria just voted me after all those posts, just outted him(or herself? sorry stellaria) as wolf.

Forgive my lack of experience, but f3 must be very careful when voting to avoid bad hammer.

Stellaria went against that and represented their thought process in a way to 'acknowledge' Wiisp as soon as wiisp concluded it was about me.

Wiisp on the other hand, I could see the conflict about both me and stellaria despite wanting to be the one to vote first to either lose or win as well as start a thunderdome, hasn't done exactly that.

I feel this is pretty revealing about Stellaria wanting to sway Wiisp into deciding to hammer me.

I don't think T!Stellaria would be so hasty about it.



On top of all these, as I explained earlier in the day, MM dying last night in w!Wiisp world makes less sense than the w!stellaria world. I thought it was weird that Stellaria was the first to bring up 'why' MM died.

I'll let you finish, but this is my first time in f3 as well

[Stellaria]

wait you were F3 before, in Game of the Century

[ikarusdk]

wait you were F3 before, in Game of the Century

yeah and I lost because of my gambit.

[Stellaria]

oh you're here

yeah this is my first time being in a true f3

there was one time many years ago where I subbed in for a serial killer and technically got to f3 by balancing out the number of mafia with number of town but i didnt really feel any pressure

admittedly i might've jumped the gun on voting you because of the alcohol but i still agree with the conclusion i came to

[ikarusdk]

@ikarusdk
normally I should be trying to get the wolfiest player to vote first, of which Im still not certain who it is, I think you make sense if u are power wolfing
anyways, my sense of pride means I'd rather vote first, so i can either lose the game for town, or correctly vote, rather than seeing the off chance where the town between u two randomly snipes me, losing the game straight off

also im still honestly not certain how the talk is "Why MM over Stellar" and not, "Why does wolf!Wisp kill the one person out of us 3 that he has the most experience with, and has found them townie at points, even leave two people alive that both want him dead"
im gunna go read Stellar first, if u have any specific questions i will keep this tab open and keep checking on it

1. Do you think Stellaria just did what you wanted?
2. I mean that is exactly what I meant, I guess I was not all that clear.

also personally I think its disingenuous to say I tried to call DK a liar, given how the carol works, I think its personally easy to lie about the names because the person who gave the carol only knows that they gave it to u, not what u get, and given that u can easily just give 3 names of which all are town if it gets u 3 dead town even if it outs u the next day

also i never once voted DK, and i didnt even humor when Mac was trying to push their

Don't recall you calling me a liar, I expected and got some suspicion from players about my carol, which I completely understand.

you both didnt vote arrow till MM basically stated it was the better choice, and stellar only voted it to hammer (i think), dont quote me on it, hard to tell from vote history
honestly i can't fathom how town!Stellar doesnt even think here that DK can be a wolf

One thing you must remember if you are town (i am now certain stellaria is now wolf, but as I'm reading and answering your post, I'm not going to act like it won't change) is that when arrow was still alive, I was more or less willing to risk mislynching you at that point in time, given my townread of MM, Stellaria, and EVEN MAC were extremely high. So naturally my eyes would go towards who I would trust less based on my townreads, unlike when I led the DM lynch when I mechanically deduced why he was wolf, not MM. Arrow was non-existent so I was perfectly fine voting him too. I kept insisting and explained how we could afford two mislynches at the time because although I was scum reading you (in hindsight it was probably because we are very different players in our views and how we play), I was not 100% sure you were wolf.

and both of you have basically insulted me since like the half way point of this game
like wtf man

like the only good post in Stellar's iso 2216, tonally they are fine
there was one post where they argued, "Why me over these people when they did the same thing", which still reads like a wolf whining about be called out for a reason they believe is bad
honestly if not for me being absorbed by the meta from champs, this slot doesnt look greated, and survived being extremely correct all the way till f3


but DK is no saint either because he still pitched a poe from my PoV, that would have lost the game for town, and they voted in a very over top way, stuff comes off as forced, like the comment about MM snowing them, but they are certainly way more fluid at points than Stellar has ever been. and they went out of their way to not vote Arrow on the day they died

so like the wolf is either a powerwolfer, or someone who played with very obvious tmi

The only thing I pointed out was that you weren't willing to give us straight answers, or give detailed analysis on the situations at hand at the time. You must admit that you were uncooperative at the time because you felt you were attacked. I never once directly insulted you except and prior to when I said your town game must get better. And it was only because I felt you weren't trying to actively help us. If that was wrong of me to feel that way then I apologise but that's how you came across as. And that genuinely felt anti-town. I admit when I voted you in that post, I kinda got sick of the game and wanted it over whether I was right or wrong.

Also about Arrow. Now it is all hindsight, but I genuinely wanted to give Arrow some time to gather himself because I know he's very busy and I've made mistakes of mislynching purely based on activity level alone. He was hard to read, not really present in the posts, and generally LHF. I wanted to lynch you instead in W!Wiisp/Arrow/Mac world because of my townreads of mac, and wanting to delay arrow dying in case he was indeed too busy to play.

PoD being killed makes sense because were they not the other medium?
and ultra from my understanding was clear cleared IC, so like its fine?
as for MM all i can say, is wolf!me would not make that kill

which reminds me, u and arrow both called out these night kills, and thats another thing that I think is forced from you

PoD did not have to die at that time because even if he was alive, he couldn't assign a medium to another person as he could only do it on day 5 (he was odd nights). I genuinely thought Ultra would get killed before PoD. Killing mechanically cleared town takes priority over a PR that cannot even use their action on the following day. I'd like to say that out of all three alive here, Wiisp has the most exp, Stellaria next, then me lowest? I think PoD kill was an overlook and a mistake, but I guess it doesn't matter since Ultra, despite being cleared, therefore should've led the town, simply did not contribute to this game past day 1, 2.

PoD kill could make sense in W!Stellaria world, because PoD had set his eyes on Stellaria? Idk.

Also don't understand the last statement.

and like Arrow specifcally goes out of their way to call Ikarus town, twice, and then randomly swaps it a wolf read
im just not sure how arrow picks that name of their hat without them being wolf/wolf

another thing I disliked about DK is their reaction to the train on Mac, of which comes off just as fake as their reactions to MM possibly snowing them, and other things

Arrow said he thinks I was town on day 1-2 i believe. And then post PoD death, he said I was wolf. Arrow knew he'd die. Is it too far of a possibility to think that Arrow wanted people see that as 'distancing' from teammate wolf, just like you are?

All my reactions and argument in this game came from 101% geunine town perspective. So if it felt fake, or forced, it wasn't. There were some moments where I intentionally controlled the way I posted to get intel I wanted - like from DM and they couldve been seen forced.

I mean I think whoever the town out of u two is, is reading a completely different game to somehow not think the other of u two can be a wolf, while somehow everything points to me
I think it was also extremely disingenuous to say for all my posts i had even less thoughts than Arrow, like god the amount of justification both of u went through to try to vote me out before Arrow two day phases ago

eh. I admit that my 'justification' on my push on day 5(i think) was a bit over the top. MM himself called it a bit like a conspiracy theory. I knew that. I was 'reasoning' with myself why I think someone is posting/acting the way they were if they were wolf, or town. In some ways I still think my reasons could've been valid had you been a wolf.



Now I have to answer Stellaria now. I don't think it's necessary though given how tired I am

[ikarusdk]

You know what?

I don't think people in grave would get mad if we lose to either one of you because of the way you played. So I am not gonna stress myself anymore I think. You both played really well.

My gut and brain say it is you Stellaria. If you are the actress, then man, you were some deceiving and conniving wolf. I don't know if having arrow being less active was all in your 'long term' game plan, but I congratulate you. Had it been not for MM dying , I would've never suspected you till the end.

My worldview and heart say it is Wiisp. I don't think that anymore because my worldview came crashing down on me, but as the game progressed, I genuinely thought it was Wiisp. Who else could it be? MM? Stellaria? Mac? They all resided in my top towncore till the very end (well except mac moved himself down to scumlean day 4), whereas Wiisp felt more reactionary, passive, concealing in their reasons. I felt those three were much more open about their thoughts than Wiisp, and were generally very open to discussions. Anyway, if I am still wrong here and it is indeed Wiisp, I also congratulate you because you obviously moved yourself out of my list of chop since day 4.

-vote Stellaria

I won't be mad if Wiisp votes me here though. And I am sure Stellaria won't get upset becuase Wiisp voted him. I feel both town and wolves all deserve pats on the back.

[Stellaria]

if you answer nothing else ikarus, then answer this: why would scum!Stellaria kill MM and not you? or better yet, why why would scum!Stellaria kill MM and not holster?

[ikarusdk]

If Wiisp is wolf, SNIPE AWAY~

If Wiisp is town, BE FREE~

[ikarusdk]

if you answer nothing else ikarus, then answer this: why would scum!Stellaria kill MM and not you? or better yet, why why would scum!Stellaria kill MM and not holster?

You began today and said it is probably Wiisp and it is over.

Then your view changed when I started babbling about why was MM killed and started comparing your pov and Wiisp pov over MM's death.

I believe that scum Stellaria would have a much higher chance bringing me to f3 against Wiisp than MM, since we were towncoring each other all game, and up until yesterday I had Wiisp on my chopping prio. So you probably knew that I'd still tunnel on Wiisp, especially after my groggy post.

I don't think you could've holstered. If you holstered, today would've been MM, Stellaria and Ika all lynching Wiisp. Then the next day would mean you will have to risk having me as kingmaker between MM and you, but I mechanically (well not actual mech) solved why MM cannot be anything other than town a couple of times so you couldn't risk that.

[ikarusdk]

I personally think that you meant to bring me to f3 as your vote against the last player.

But I think this changed because you saw that I started to sway away from Wiisp, so you had to act.

[ikarusdk]

At this rate I'm, probably not gonna see the game result before I sleep

[ikarusdk]

oh you're here

yeah this is my first time being in a true f3

there was one time many years ago where I subbed in for a serial killer and technically got to f3 by balancing out the number of mafia with number of town but i didnt really feel any pressure

admittedly i might've jumped the gun on voting you because of the alcohol but i still agree with the conclusion i came to

this is my second f3.. such a terrible place to be as town.

[ikarusdk]

my day 1 or 2 hero solve

Stellaria/Wiisp/Arrow - i must pat myself on the back. hehe

[Stellaria]

You began today and said it is probably Wiisp and it is over.

Then your view changed when I started babbling about why was MM killed and started comparing your pov and Wiisp pov over MM's death.

I believe that scum Stellaria would have a much higher chance bringing me to f3 against Wiisp than MM, since we were towncoring each other all game, and up until yesterday I had Wiisp on my chopping prio. So you probably knew that I'd still tunnel on Wiisp, especially after my groggy post.

I don't think you could've holstered. If you holstered, today would've been MM, Stellaria and Ika all lynching Wiisp. Then the next day would mean you will have to risk having me as kingmaker between MM and you, but I mechanically (well not actual mech) solved why MM cannot be anything other than town a couple of times so you couldn't risk that.

> You began today and said it is probably Wiisp and it is over.

pretty much, that was my worldview at the time and it still feels a little more "right" to me

> Then your view changed when I started babbling about why was MM killed and started comparing your pov and Wiisp pov over MM's death.

no offense dude, but no. My view did not change with you talking about MM. That entire page of blabble was from me re-reading the thread, particularly day 1, with a fine-toothed comb. The thing that really got my attention was Wisp pushing on Dark Magician and Arrow day 1 even after seeing Dark Magician's soft, and that's when I felt I completely flubbed Wisp's ISO before today. That's when I started actually reconsidering.

> I believe that scum Stellaria would have a much higher chance bringing me to f3 against Wiisp than MM, since we were towncoring each other all game, and up until yesterday I had Wiisp on my chopping prio. So you probably knew that I'd still tunnel on Wiisp, especially after my groggy post.

I won't argue that I'd be more likely to take you to f3 as scum as opposed to scum!wisp. But at this point you're pre-flipping me as scum and jumping to conclusions to say that this is what's definitively going on

> I don't think you could've holstered. If you holstered, today would've been MM, Stellaria and Ika all lynching Wiisp. Then the next day would mean you will have to risk having me as kingmaker between MM and you, but I mechanically (well not actual mech) solved why MM cannot be anything other than town a couple of times so you couldn't risk that.

Is holstering not a thing that people can do here? Also there's no tomorrow in an f4

[Stellaria]

You also have fully embraced a thunderdome, I see. You're tired, or so you say, but you couldn't help yourself but to leave a vote on me before you went to bed.

[ikarusdk]

> You began today and said it is probably Wiisp and it is over.

pretty much, that was my worldview at the time and it still feels a little more "right" to me

> Then your view changed when I started babbling about why was MM killed and started comparing your pov and Wiisp pov over MM's death.

no offense dude, but no. My view did not change with you talking about MM. That entire page of blabble was from me re-reading the thread, particularly day 1, with a fine-toothed comb. The thing that really got my attention was Wisp pushing on Dark Magician and Arrow day 1 even after seeing Dark Magician's soft, and that's when I felt I completely flubbed Wisp's ISO before today. That's when I started actually reconsidering.

> I believe that scum Stellaria would have a much higher chance bringing me to f3 against Wiisp than MM, since we were towncoring each other all game, and up until yesterday I had Wiisp on my chopping prio. So you probably knew that I'd still tunnel on Wiisp, especially after my groggy post.

I won't argue that I'd be more likely to take you to f3 as scum as opposed to scum!wisp. But at this point you're pre-flipping me as scum and jumping to conclusions to say that this is what's definitively going on

> I don't think you could've holstered. If you holstered, today would've been MM, Stellaria and Ika all lynching Wiisp. Then the next day would mean you will have to risk having me as kingmaker between MM and you, but I mechanically (well not actual mech) solved why MM cannot be anything other than town a couple of times so you couldn't risk that.

Is holstering not a thing that people can do here? Also there's no tomorrow in an f4

Yeah I mean...this is why you are a good wolf if it ends up with you because they all make sense. And offence none taken.

I am not really pre-flipping here though. I really think it is 60/40 Stellaria/Wiisp. I am willing to risk losing but it's all upto Wiisp now.

I tried to solve the game when I was free today, and I realised that I either 1. continue lynching wiisp based on what I was feeling about the player all game, despite their increasing townnes towards the end, or 2. I lynch you here because I feel you had to kill MM last night over me given the circumstances thus far between Wiisp v Ika, whereas Wiisp had little reason to kill MM. Had Stellaria died (from my pov, of course you couldn't die from your pov), I would've continued death tunneling on Wiisp. This all of course, goes against how I felt about you all game.

Yeah you can definitely holster, but I dont think you could've afforded it. Ika+Stellaria vs Wiisp is easier than Ika or MM+Stellaria vs Ika or MM.

[ikarusdk]

You also have fully embraced a thunderdome, I see. You're tired, or so you say, but you couldn't help yourself but to leave a vote on me before you went to bed.

I mean, when I said I'm tired, i meant I'm tired of solving lol. Yeah i tried to solve today and I am now ready for a full on thunderdome. May the more handsome win.

[Stellaria]

Feel free to point out if I read the game wrong but I was under the impression that you (Ikarus), MM, and I were pretty much all on the same page until today. My feelings on yesterday were that it was definitely either Mac or Wisp, and if it wasn't either of them, then it would've been MM after everything. But I wasn't getting sus vibes from MM anymore

[ikarusdk]

@Wiisp some intersting things happening here. Come and check out to snipe the win

[ikarusdk]

Feel free to point out if I read the game wrong but I was under the impression that you (Ikarus), MM, and I were pretty much all on the same page until today. My feelings on yesterday were that it was definitely either Mac or Wisp, and if it wasn't either of them, then it would've been MM after everything. But I wasn't getting sus vibes from MM anymore

Yeah that is exactly how I felt. Your worldview aligned with mine perfectly all game.

[Stellaria]

I mean, when I said I'm tired, i meant I'm tired of solving lol. Yeah i tried to solve today and I am now ready for a full on thunderdome. May the more handsome win.

man you're not gonna win like that xD by not responding to anything I had to say in my thoughts last page

[ikarusdk]

Hence why I am feeling regrettable I'm voting you but I think I was simply wrong about Wiisp prior to today.

[Stellaria]

Yeah that is exactly how I felt. Your worldview aligned with mine perfectly all game.

I felt good about you because I felt like we were coming to the same conclusions about players separately from each other.

[Stellaria]

yeah this thunderdome is stupid but I've been sitting here a good long while waiting for thread activity and you've still not given me a reason to stop voting for you

[ikarusdk]

man you're not gonna win like that xD by not responding to anything I had to say in my thoughts last page

True. I guess at this point you deserve to be heard and its the least I could do.

[Stellaria]

sorry in advance for my shit tier texting, i was on mobile

[Stellaria]

oh, and one more thing since it bothered me

there's no way in f I'm gonna plan for my teammate to play silly, I'm not even close to confident enough in myself to carry an inactive teammate + a lost wolf that's acting a fool xD

[Stellaria]

i feel like you should already know that from Chaotic Executioner

[ikarusdk]

yeah. I'm just going over everything you posted rn again. I read them before and I remember nodding at teverything except when you started arriving to conclusion about me. I'll do my due diligence, dont worry.

It's just hard to comment on stuff that I already agree with, or remember happening.

You must understand Stellaria, my entire premise of voting you relies on the importance of carrying out the nk on the correct person, and what MM's death signifies.
I am highly conflicted because this goes against my world view.

It's like you feeling like you were betrayed because you trusted someone so fully, then something happens that can only be explained by the said person doing it.

[Stellaria]

okay sure, but just as Wisp is saying they don't make the kill on MM, neither do I

both you and MM were townreading me, I'd have had no reason not to holster, and I could definitely have afforded it as scum

[Stellaria]

i dont even want to believe that it's you

[Stellaria]

there's a lot of people viewing this thread right now lol, I guess it's getting intense

[ikarusdk]

W!Wiisp world

Who would he want to bring to f3.

Ika And MM - Ika and MM both had healthy townread each other, but at the same time they did not fully trust each other. Ika - because of what Wiisp said + carol could've definitely been faked. MM - because well, most people swaw MM this game as scummy. I am not gonna lie.

where as Stellaria was the last person both Ika and MM would worry about. He would've killed Stellaria here.



W!Stellaria world

Who would he want to bring to f3.

Ika and Wiisp - They've been acting pretty much like nemesis in this game. Ika had been tunneling on Wiisp, and Wiisp calling ika out at every opportunity. Ika even said he wasn't coming back and sat his vote for some time before changing it to Mac.

MM and Wiisp - This is also definitely doable, but MM would've seen that Wiisp killing Ika would make less sense since w!Wiisp would want to bring ika to f3, so ika must be alive.


TLDR - w!Wiisp would've killed Stellaria, whereas w!Stellaria would've prioritized having ika vs wiisp on f3, rather than mm vs wiisp.

[ikarusdk]

there's a lot of people viewing this thread right now lol, I guess it's getting intense

Im suspecting f3 is always intense! I know I was having a blast watching f3 in the other game (i only had the pleasure of watching 1 f3)

[Stellaria]

You could argue that Wisp killed MM to get you to start considering me for the facts you mention above

[ikarusdk]

W!Wiisp world

Who would he want to bring to f3.

Ika And MM - Ika and MM both had healthy townread each other, but at the same time they did not fully trust each other. Ika - because of what Wiisp said + carol could've definitely been faked. MM - because well, most people swaw MM this game as scummy. I am not gonna lie.

where as Stellaria was the last person both Ika and MM would worry about. He would've killed Stellaria here.



W!Stellaria world

Who would he want to bring to f3.

Ika and Wiisp - They've been acting pretty much like nemesis in this game. Ika had been tunneling on Wiisp, and Wiisp calling ika out at every opportunity. Ika even said he wasn't coming back and sat his vote for some time before changing it to Mac.

MM and Wiisp - This is also definitely doable, but MM would've seen that Wiisp killing Ika would make less sense since w!Wiisp would want to bring ika to f3, so ika must be alive.


TLDR - w!Wiisp would've killed Stellaria, whereas w!Stellaria would've prioritized having ika vs wiisp on f3, rather than mm vs wiisp.

This versus

insisting that my read on you entire game is correct.

This is a difficult choice for me.

[Stellaria]

I mean, I imagine wolf!Wisp would've read the room and realized that there was no way they'd get anywhere in F3 unless some wacko kill was made

[Stellaria]

consider all the permutations of a wolf!Wisp game.

f3 - Wisp, Ikarus, MM
f3 - Wisp, Stellaria, MM
f4 - Wisp, Ikarus, Stellaria, MM

hell even f3 - Wisp, Ikarus, Stellaria has low odds for Wisp to win any thunderdome, but at the very least, it'd have give them the greatest odds at getting you off their back

[ikarusdk]

You could argue that Wisp killed MM to get you to start considering me for the facts you mention above

I mean I thought about that too, as well as the possibility that Wiisp simply just made A choice, rather than an informed and educated choice.

But at the same time, I think W!Wiisp would've realised that the game is going to be extremely hard to win anyway, so tried to bring people who he'd have more chance to win. I don't think Wiisp would be the type to just give up at this stage.

[Stellaria]

You're right, I haven't gotten any sign that Wisp is intending to give up

[ikarusdk]

Well I must sleep now.

And I guess it is wrong for me to rely on one aspect of the game to conclude the game so I'm gonna need time to look through ISOs again.

As much as thunderdome would be interesting for onlookers, I am going to make my best educated guess tomorrow.

If I arrive at the same conclusion as I do now...well then it's whoever is more handsome wins.

-unvote

[Stellaria]

thank you for getting your head out of your booty xD

-unvote

that's enough of a reason for me to unvote for now, good night

[ikarusdk]

W!Wiisp when he comes.

'FK I MISSED THE CHANCE TO SNIPE'

[Stellaria]

LOL

[ikarusdk]

thank you for getting your head out of your booty xD

-unvote

that's enough of a reason for me to unvote for now, good night

good night.

Hope we are all present tomorrow when we finish!

TBH I'd like this game to finish sooner than later because I'm itching to see if I'm right or wrong.

[Stellaria]

-vote ikarusdk

[Stellaria]

-unvote

oop you were too slow

[Stellaria]

good night.

Hope we are all present tomorrow when we finish!

TBH I'd like this game to finish sooner than later because I'm itching to see if I'm right or wrong.

aight bet, vote wisp rn and I'll hammer


my lawyer has advised me to clarify that this is a joke

[Stellaria]

sorry I feel like an asshole for that xDD go ahead and get some sleep