S-FM 353: Death Nominations

[tutuu]

I might go more into detail once I've finished my Tutuu ISO but to answer for this specific point:

I can vouch for the fact that Tutuu has been on an extremely long town streak due to seeing her play in passing a couple times recently on what I believe to be her home site and it being brought up as a topic there on multiple occasions but, no, I don't think the post saying "I'm on a 37 town streak" in of itself is towny.

That being said, I think the fact that that Tutuu has had this long town streak does amplify certain other townpoints in her favour (her seeing similar tonally and activity-wise to how I recall her play being in the games of hers I spectated, Baker's townread on her and his meta on her as someone who knows Tutuu much better than I do, mindmelding with her on a couple of early takes and funding her solving and questions to generally line up with my own, etc) which, with the context of her not having randed wolf in a very long time, seem much more difficult to fake for a potential wolf-Tutuu specifically than a player who has had a lot of recent wolf rands, for example.

Replicating your town meta, fooling players who know you well and faking convincing solving are in my opinion probably the three most difficult things to do as a wolf in general so a potential wolf-Tutuu coming into this game off such a ridiculously long town streak that I believe has been going for years and then going 3/3 with accomplishing those things on D1 is something that seems pretty unlikely for sure.

Damn this went so hard

If Vittae is wolf i think the only way i can catch them is if i think theyre TMI-ing me

[Wiml]

Thanks gotta work through the pain i feel FUCKED today but i'm hoping that's the worst of it i usually have really good health so nothing lasts more than a few days

This is 5 posts but since i feel generous i will continue reading PLEASE townlock me

As much as I'm complaining about activity levels, I'm a much bigger advocate for putting your offline life and health above all else.

Obviously there's not a lot of people around to say for sure but I'm doubtful that you're in any real danger of going over today and I'd personally advocate against you flipping regardless as I think your posting has been fine and you seem much more likely to self resolve in time (when you feel better) compared to most of the other slots that have barely posted.

[tutuu]

You vote like this:

-vote scumbot5679

The vote button is just to the right on the spoiler button on the text editor and looks like a box with a tick.

Ty

-vote scumbot5679

This is so hard on mobile

[Wiml]

Let's talk whats your scumgame and towngame like

Just to clarify before I answer further: you're aware that I'm Wiml, right?

[tutuu]

Lmao well I appreciate the vote of confidence.

Ultimately I feel sort of the same with regards to voting out active players with the current state of the thread. For as long as almost all of the posts in the game are made by the same small handful of people, it's extremely hard to justify voting off somebody who's actively contributing until more people show up and put in enough effort such that voting one of the higher posters out doesn't just gut the game of content entirely.

Yeah

My last game the two wolves were the 2nd and 3rd top posters. 3 townies completely bailed on our team and one townie consciously and purposefully sabotaged our wincon out of personal interpetation of whats fun for them. I dont wanna play games like that, if i lose i lose and i dip. I dont wanna throw games by tinfoiling the ppl putting in effort and letting slankers free win only to hear them gloat about it. This has also happened and i hate it lol

[tutuu]

-vote tutuu

realistically the best option is to kill someone who's unlikely to do be self-resolving and hope it's a jackpot
I'm not a realist nor can i tell apart from the various lowposters that well so i'm making this move

How is anyone self resolving without mafia nk in the first place?

And why me in particular? U dont think i can chop a wolf?

[tutuu]

Another question is why you're more interested to talk to your townreads rather than your scumreads or null reads?

I dont have scumreads. Im sheeping on that person i forgot the name of sorry

I talk to my townreads coz thats how i play

My nullreads are not here i cant talk to them unless i physically find their addresses and go to their houses to stalk them and ask them why arent they playing mafia which i might do

---

I find it odd that you find this odd of me. Have u not observed me express this behavior in all of my town games? Sheeping and cohesion?

[tutuu]

How is anyone self resolving without mafia nk in the first place?

And why me in particular? U dont think i can chop a wolf?

Im confused by that, mafia doesnt have a nk right? I didnt misread the op right? Let me check

[tutuu]

Yeah they dont

So lol (player, not laughing) how do u define self resolving or not in this setup?

[tutuu]

@Marshmallow Marshal

Testing how to ping

[tutuu]

@Marshmallow Marshal;

[tutuu]

Reminder: Day phase lasts 24 hours!!

@MartinGG99
@Marshmallow Marshall
@Varcron
@ikarusdk
@tutuu
@scumbot5679
@Vittae
@lol
@The Scarlet Letters

@Marshmallow Marshall
@Varcron
@ikarusdk
@The Scarlet Letters

Hello, whos mafia?

[Wiml]

Yeah

My last game the two wolves were the 2nd and 3rd top posters. 3 townies completely bailed on our team and one townie consciously and purposefully sabotaged our wincon out of personal interpetation of whats fun for them. I dont wanna play games like that, if i lose i lose and i dip. I dont wanna throw games by tinfoiling the ppl putting in effort and letting slankers free win only to hear them gloat about it. This has also happened and i hate it lol

Was that the one on TS?

I followed a reasonable amount of that game and I'm very glad I wasn't playing in it.

[tutuu]

Was that the one on TS?

I followed a reasonable amount of that game and I'm very glad I wasn't playing in it.

On fol. Idk about ts i havent played there in months. Site is kind of dead atm

[tutuu]

Vittae are u Wiml? U have the same avi. This pink cup thing

[Wiml]

I miss Bakermir

[tutuu]

Just to clarify before I answer further: you're aware that I'm Wiml, right?

Right... i can read. I swear

[bakermir]

hell yea we out here getting that bag baby calculate those fat stacks of cash $$$

[tutuu]

Lmao

[Wiml]

Vittae are u Wiml? U have the same avi. This pink cup thing

Ew, what's a Wiml?

[Wiml]

I miss Bakermir

And when they needed him the most, he arrived...

[bakermir]

Could you go into some more detail about what made you go down this train of thought?

Not this post itself but what thoughts made you actually want to make it in the first place.

It was out of boredom; I wouldn't call it a train. Trains aren't boring; they are angels, and I love them... I suppose it has eventually invited some people to react to it or me, which is good for my reads.

This makes sense and lines up pretty well with my initial impressions of Baker too. While far from clearing, I think his early WIM / excited attitude is a plus and he seems very different otoh to how I remember him playing the one recent time I've seen him in a game (as a wolf) although I'll need to refresh myself on that game later.

Which game are you referring to here?

@bakermir mind linking some good / relevant games of yours as both alignments?

Don't link Mini Fooling Party please I don't really care about lost wolf games.

I don't have any games that stands out tbh I don't find any of them "good". It's like going to the gym you know, you don't realize how small or frail you are until you start working on yourself.

The number of villagers that need to find each other is actually only 4, not 5, even if we assume that we always miselim the day after voting a wolf.

So basically, people just need to self clear and find three consensus confident and correct townreads. It's not at all a difficult setup to crack open if people are willing and able to put that effort in.

I had 5 due to reasons - pessimism if that counts as one; mainly depending on what nominations a mafia will make if we ever chop one. I don't think we should discuss this today, but I am glad to see I wasn't the only one trying to crack the setup.

We need to figure out whom to chop and whom to nominate for tomorrow ASAP.

Mind linking the game?

I mean, what are you going to find out from reading that game? lol is clearly wrong here in how they analyzed me. I might have been joyful in mafia chat, and I had good laughs being teamed with lol because of their content. However, that doesn't mean I show that excitement in the thread or with other mafia players in different mafia games and chats. In fact, it is quite rare for me to enjoy mafia alignment. I am a perfectionist when it comes to randing maf and I won't get into details here. This year, I subbed out of a game because I didn't click with the people on my team, and I was frustrated that I couldn't pay much time to the game, so I was out after D1 ended. Here is a link to it: I don't need the stars to align, but when the stakes are low or the game isn't enjoyable, I am not going to put up with it tolerate it, and I don't mind losing in the end. Mini-Fooling Party where I subbed in is a great example. If I had won the 50% 50% mechanical check in the end, I would have won the game.


So, what in your view makes a game "good"? @Vittae

[bakermir]

This year, I subbed out of a game because I didn't click with the people on my team, and I was frustrated that I couldn't pay much time to the game, so I was out after D1 ended. Here is a link to it:

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto...2541&start=450

[bakermir]

From what little I know about Martin as a player, the mentality of being pretty unphased about dying to town kp and being willing to do so if he thinks it benefits whatever team he's on is something that I buy him genuinely believing in even if I don't necessarily agree with what he's saying here.

It's also not something I'd expect Martin, who I believe is a pretty solid wolf, to necessarily be willing to offer out of the gate when it's likely that in most potential wolf teams in this lobby he would be likely to perceive himself as one of the stronger wolves and / or one of the most likely to survive to endgame and win out of almost any wolf team.

Given that aorn it's very likely that most of the wolves are concentrated in the less active players, the above seems especially apparent. It's hard to imagine a world where wolf-Martin expresses willingness to do if his partners were two people who were just likely to minpost, for example, due to the fact that he would likely be expected to follow through on that later into the game if pushed instead of vocally fighting to survive.

Tl;dr he's not really approaching the game in a way I'd expect from somebody I perceive to be a more endgame-focused wolf.

Plus, expressing willingness to die unprompted is >rand town in a vacuum as well.

I would let Martin cook. He is a player known for holding onto some of his thoughts until later stages of the game, and this can have an impact, for better or worse, on either himself or the rest of us. It usually ends well for town. Also, on a personal note: I believe I can read Martin very effectively due to certain reasons and history. My last meta read on him was accurate. Reading his champs game D1, I told MM how I could soulread Martin as mafia, and MM was underlining Axis to me. It turns out we were both correct xd

I am taking them into my towncore today.

Speaking of MM, it is unusual for them to miss a day like this. Maybe we should consider extending this day phase.

What are your thoughts @everyone?

[bakermir]

@bakermir @tutuu @MartinGG99 @anyone else who wants to lol

If y'all let me know when you're around we can chat about some stuff together and hopefully start generating some meaningful content.

I'll be back in a little while myself.

hmm we can look into extending the day and we should probably bring together a list of nominations for scumbot

[tutuu]

I would let Martin cook. He is a player known for holding onto some of his thoughts until later stages of the game, and this can have an impact, for better or worse, on either himself or the rest of us. It usually ends well for town. Also, on a personal note: I believe I can read Martin very effectively due to certain reasons and history. My last meta read on him was accurate. Reading his champs game D1, I told MM how I could soulread Martin as mafia, and MM was underlining Axis to me. It turns out we were both correct xd

I am taking them into my towncore today.

Speaking of MM, it is unusual for them to miss a day like this. Maybe we should consider extending this day phase.

What are your thoughts @everyone?

Agree on martin

Wdym extend the day phase? How can we do that?

[tutuu]

Baker
Vittae

Martin

Rest null

[bakermir]

I don't really remember him hyperposting like that as scum or lulz claiming mafia. Both of those are 8 out of 10 times town though I prob own the game a reread.

@scumbot5679

Let's set aside all the things we've discussed about each other and our previous game. I'd like to hear your thoughts on others here. I understand that you view both me and yourself as town. Do you have any comments on Martin's voting patterns or posts, for instance?

If it's difficult, let me simplify the process for you:

Please give me 3 names that you would nominate if you were chosen for chop today. I'd also like to know if you would adhere to a consensus list for tomorrow if one were provided.

[tutuu]

lol is unreadable btw guys

If u think hes some alignment he alwayps flips the opposite

I bet his alignment changes mid-game just to spite people and be the opposite of what they think

[tutuu]

If i get chopped im nomming scumbot marshmallow and the hydra (respectfully hydras are bad for sanity)

[bakermir]

Yeah

My last game the two wolves were the 2nd and 3rd top posters. 3 townies completely bailed on our team and one townie consciously and purposefully sabotaged our wincon out of personal interpetation of whats fun for them. I dont wanna play games like that, if i lose i lose and i dip. I dont wanna throw games by tinfoiling the ppl putting in effort and letting slankers free win only to hear them gloat about it. This has also happened and i hate it lol

If this is about Litten's smalltown game, I kinda found it fun mostly, but I understand how awful it must have felt for you near the end. Town was completely lost because of a misclear and half the slots afk. You have done great though, I enjoyed you tryharding there

[bakermir]

Agree on martin

Wdym extend the day phase? How can we do that?

Special Mechanics:

IN AN EVENT OF A TIE, the person who is first of the tied players in the list of 3 names will die. Make sure when making a list to put them in order in consideration of this. Ties on Day 1 will extend until the first moment the tie get broken.


Rules:

You must post at least five times every 24 hours. You will receive 1 warning, and will be replaced if this happen the second time. If you posted 0 times in 24 hours, its immediate replacement without warning. In an event of a replacement, I may extend day by 12 more hours.

I have found two different rules stating we can get an extension.

[Wiml]

Which game are you referring to here?

Cyberpunk, actually, so it's pretty funny that you linked it as well.

I mean, what are you going to find out from reading that game? lol is clearly wrong here in how they analyzed me. I might have been joyful in mafia chat, and I had good laughs being teamed with lol because of their content. However, that doesn't mean I show that excitement in the thread or with other mafia players in different mafia games and chats. In fact, it is quite rare for me to enjoy mafia alignment. I am a perfectionist when it comes to randing maf and I won't get into details here. This year, I subbed out of a game because I didn't click with the people on my team, and I was frustrated that I couldn't pay much time to the game, so I was out after D1 ended. Here is a link to it: I don't need the stars to align, but when the stakes are low or the game isn't enjoyable, I am not going to put up with it tolerate it, and I don't mind losing in the end. Mini-Fooling Party where I subbed in is a great example. If I had won the 50% 50% mechanical check in the end, I would have won the game.

Basically everything you've written here already answers your question and speaks for the sort of stuff that I'll look out for when I read some of your old wolf games.

The difference is that self meta isn't a reliable way to deduce these things (in fact, I'd go so far as to say that self meta is notoriously unreliable). The most accurate way to work these things out is to look directly at the games in question and read them yourself without getting an account of said meta filtered through a source that is generally going to be very biased.

So, what in your view makes a game "good"? @Vittae

I deliberately leave the definition of what I'm looking for vague when asking for games, largely so that the person in question gives me the ones that fit their criteria of good instead of one that fits a checklist.

Generally, I want to see a wolf game or games that show the upper bound of a player's wolf range that has been demonstrated semi-recently (one where they were active, in good health, performed well, etc). For town games, I care most about recency and high enough effort levels.

[bakermir]

Sorry, we MAY* get an extension.

Hopefully we do because we have 6 hours remaining.

[Wiml]

hmm we can look into extending the day and we should probably bring together a list of nominations for scumbot

Aorn I'd be looking at something like:

Scumbot
Varcron
Scarlet
MM

As my nominations (naming four because I'm including whoever gets voted).

Ikarus is in the same tier as those 0-posting slots but I'd tiebreak him out of the shortlist for at least having given a genuine reason for his absence.

Obviously that's dependent on if the 0 posts / content slots show up or not though.

[tutuu]

I dont get how this tie thing works

I understand "put them in order" but im not parsing whats written at how its resolved

[tutuu]

Sorry, we MAY* get an extension.

Hopefully we do because we have 6 hours remaining.

Omg lol whats gonna happen with half the slots who are below min post count? 😂

(Im laughing to hide my tears)

[tutuu]

I dont get how this tie thing works

I understand "put them in order" but im not parsing whats written at how its resolved

Does it take into account all of our lists? And it gets stalled infinitely until a player breaks it? But since this is done privately the mafia can instantly break it, no?

[Wiml]

lol is unreadable btw guys

If u think hes some alignment he alwayps flips the opposite

I bet his alignment changes mid-game just to spite people and be the opposite of what they think

Is this a challenge?

[tutuu]

Imagine if this was 8v4. Man. Idk if we can even win a 8v2

[tutuu]

Is this a challenge?

I like how ur like a puppy whose ears straighten up the moment u hear ur favorite keywords

Yessss its a challenge, go get him boy!!!

[Wiml]

Does it take into account all of our lists? And it gets stalled infinitely until a player breaks it? But since this is done privately the mafia can instantly break it, no?

I don't believe that user submitted lists apply until D2+.

Basically, ties will, by the letter of the rules, indefinitely stall the game and lead to an infinite duration D1 if everyone agrees not to tiebreak.

(Although I'm working under the assumption that exploiting this loophole is breaking the rules unless told otherwise so I wouldn't cross your fingers on an extension).

[tutuu]

Sorry guys but im still really tilted at my last game and im biased to view this one cynically. Im not helping by doom and gloom posting. If im proven wrong and ppl post more and/or we catch a wolf - great! I welcome being carried. If not -im not getting burned like last time

[tutuu]

I don't believe that user submitted lists apply until D2+.

Basically, ties will, by the letter of the rules, indefinitely stall the game and lead to an infinite duration D1 if everyone agrees not to tiebreak.

(Although I'm working under the assumption that exploiting this loophole is breaking the rules unless told otherwise so I wouldn't cross your fingers on an extension).

Oh

I love breaking games that hosts have carefully spent time designing. Thats the fun of it. Can we do it pls pls pls. We can be the longest game of mafia in history. 1 year dayphase if everyone agrees. Im down. Later on my children will sub in for me and carry on my legacy

[Wiml]

Imagine if this was 8v4. Man. Idk if we can even win a 8v2

Initially the setup was going to be run as 7v4 which I'm... very, very glad isn't the case.

[tutuu]

Initially the setup was going to be run as 7v4 which I'm... very, very glad isn't the case.

Omg right it was 7v4 lmfaoooo jesus

[bakermir]

Cyberpunk, actually, so it's pretty funny that you linked it as well.



Basically everything you've written here already answers your question and speaks for the sort of stuff that I'll look out for when I read some of your old wolf games.

The difference is that self meta isn't a reliable way to deduce these things (in fact, I'd go so far as to say that self meta is notoriously unreliable). The most accurate way to work these things out is to look directly at the games in question and read them yourself without getting an account of said meta filtered through a source that is generally going to be very biased.

I agree that self meta reads can be unreliable. I would argue for even more unreliability when it's not self-meta, especially as mafia. It's likely closer to a 60/70% accuracy ratio in the global community.

lol is an example. I hoped for them to have a different experience here compared to FoL and MU. People tend to misread him more than they should since he is more of a turbo player who had a long streak of mafia rands a while back.

I deliberately leave the definition of what I'm looking for vague when asking for games, largely so that the person in question gives me the ones that fit their criteria of good instead of one that fits a checklist.

Generally, I want to see a wolf game or games that show the upper bound of a player's wolf range that has been demonstrated semi-recently (one where they were active, in good health, performed well, etc). For town games, I care most about recency and high enough effort levels.

Do you have a "good" game I can take a look at? Outside of sc2mafia

[bakermir]

Aorn I'd be looking at something like:

Scumbot
Varcron
Scarlet
MM

As my nominations (naming four because I'm including whoever gets voted).

Ikarus is in the same tier as those 0-posting slots but I'd tiebreak him out of the shortlist for at least having given a genuine reason for his absence.

Obviously that's dependent on if the 0 posts / content slots show up or not though.

I dont get how this tie thing works

I understand "put them in order" but im not parsing whats written at how its resolved

Basically, it is in our best interest to maintain a tie in D1 votes until every player has made a certain number of posts, making sure that we have a clear plan for D2 and D3.

I'd be okay with anyone being tied with scumbot. We just need to ensure that this mechanical advantage is communicated to everyone to prevent hammers.

[bakermir]

@MartinGG99

I apologize for the tag and invading your inbox, but we have found a mech that helps town get a good start to this game.

[tutuu]

Ok well whats the vc? Am on mobile sry. I can vote for a cw or smth

Also btw is 9:30 pm im going to bed really soon

Tell me who to vote, or i can keep my vote and u guys tie a cw