S-FM 351: Mini Fooling Party

[bakermir]

my last will was

hi bakermir the REDACTED here

night ? REDACTED hopefully they live

[scumbot5679]

if you wanted to talk to me, why is it that you are only saying that after I asked you about your reads?

What do you mean by downplaying Scarlet's meta on me?

[Gikkle]

why shouldn't we claim? I think sharing our info today is the right play. I don't quite see town winning the 3v3

Why are you assuming we go to 3v3?

Everyone claiming is unnecessary. Only mech that would mess with me is necessary to claim.

[Gikkle]

if you wanted to talk to me, why is it that you are only saying that after I asked you about your reads?

What do you mean by downplaying Scarlet's meta on me?

You weren't posting prior to asking about my reads? I also had other things on my mind and you posting just reminded me I wanted to hear more from you

You spent the whole of the last EoD saying that Scarlet's meta on you was incorrect - evidently, it was not.

[bakermir]

Why me?

what are your latest reads? @scumbot5679

[scumbot5679]

You spent the whole of the last EoD saying that Scarlet's meta on you was incorrect - evidently, it was not.

I don't think I ever said that, quote please. And if Scarletts meta on me was that I am town and you are saying that that meta is correct then how do you know that I am town?

[bakermir]

Why are you assuming we go to 3v3?

Everyone claiming is unnecessary. Only mech that would mess with me is necessary to claim.

only role that can screw us is liaison and I don't think there is one seeing you weren't targetted

everything else in order of operations look town favored for a massclaim

[bakermir]

actually why do I even try. half the players are not here and probably won't post for a long time


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Gikkle]

I don't think I ever said that, quote please. And if Scarletts meta on me was that I am town and you are saying that that meta is correct then how do you know that I am town?

Scarlet's meta was that you're usually incorrect about them when they are town.
You spent the whole of the EoD saying that the above meta was a way to cast doubt on your accuracy (the implication being that scarlet's meta is less accurate than they let on)

(and me saying scarlet's meta was evidently correct was that since they were town, their meta that you misread them when they are town was correct.)

[scumbot5679]

what are your latest reads? @scumbot5679

Why answer my question with a question? Isn't that deflecting a bit? Its not like I wasn't vocal with my thoughts and or feelings yesterday.

this was my last will from last night

I did not like Gikkle's "that's an incredibly quick accusation lol" and its where my original suspicion came from.

Is MM scum? eh idk. My nose crinkled when he said "Whereas you are part of the good triad, I assume? : ]
Why do you believe that (or claim to believe that), btw?" There's a part of me that just thought it was a joke but it IS putting words into my mouth so I was worried that MM was attempting to twist my words for a fake push. I didn't really believe that Gikkle thought that and it furthered my suspicion.

Mafia is inherently evil which is why I called it the "evil triad". It was flavoring not some belief in there being some good/bad triad but I am town thus I said "it's not so much as a belief it's that I'm able to read my role pm so I know.

So does scum MM (and to a lesser extent Ika) just see my push and follow me? but then I sort of feel like he was already a little suspicious of SL so for me it tracks.

All scum had to do yesterday was lurk it out so I could see Flea doing that. Maybe that's who we should have killed yesterday and give SL a chance to actually contribute to the game and see if she could start playing like town.

I also think Inno could be scum. I just hate that he wasn't voting and willing to get his hands dirty.

So my list looks kinda like

scumbot5679
ikarusdk
Marshmallow Marshall
powerofdeath
Auwt
Bakermir
Gikkle
Flea The Magician
Innovation

I mean clearly, there's a semi-guilty on MM now or POD is scum that's going to claim guilty to get a quick win.

So why did you suspect me from yesterday?

[bakermir]

Why answer my question with a question? Isn't that deflecting a bit? Its not like I wasn't vocal with my thoughts and or feelings yesterday.

this was my last will from last night

I did not like Gikkle's "that's an incredibly quick accusation lol" and its where my original suspicion came from.

Is MM scum? eh idk. My nose crinkled when he said "Whereas you are part of the good triad, I assume? : ]
Why do you believe that (or claim to believe that), btw?" There's a part of me that just thought it was a joke but it IS putting words into my mouth so I was worried that MM was attempting to twist my words for a fake push. I didn't really believe that Gikkle thought that and it furthered my suspicion.

Mafia is inherently evil which is why I called it the "evil triad". It was flavoring not some belief in there being some good/bad triad but I am town thus I said "it's not so much as a belief it's that I'm able to read my role pm so I know.

So does scum MM (and to a lesser extent Ika) just see my push and follow me? but then I sort of feel like he was already a little suspicious of SL so for me it tracks.

All scum had to do yesterday was lurk it out so I could see Flea doing that. Maybe that's who we should have killed yesterday and give SL a chance to actually contribute to the game and see if she could start playing like town.

I also think Inno could be scum. I just hate that he wasn't voting and willing to get his hands dirty.

So my list looks kinda like

scumbot5679
ikarusdk
Marshmallow Marshall
powerofdeath
Auwt
Bakermir
Gikkle
Flea The Magician
Innovation

I mean clearly, there's a semi-guilty on MM now or POD is scum that's going to claim guilty to get a quick win.

So why did you suspect me from yesterday?

this is a good post, thank you.

I didn't even realize your question was directed at me. I thought it was for gikkle.

but anyway, I had you in my suspects because of 2 town pelts you got on your back. I also didn't like the nature of your push against SL

i am just less confident about you because of the bad results. you are not solely responsible for it but yeah, you were there

[Gikkle]

Why answer my question with a question? Isn't that deflecting a bit? Its not like I wasn't vocal with my thoughts and or feelings yesterday.

this was my last will from last night

I did not like Gikkle's "that's an incredibly quick accusation lol" and its where my original suspicion came from.

Is MM scum? eh idk. My nose crinkled when he said "Whereas you are part of the good triad, I assume? : ]
Why do you believe that (or claim to believe that), btw?" There's a part of me that just thought it was a joke but it IS putting words into my mouth so I was worried that MM was attempting to twist my words for a fake push. I didn't really believe that Gikkle thought that and it furthered my suspicion.

Mafia is inherently evil which is why I called it the "evil triad". It was flavoring not some belief in there being some good/bad triad but I am town thus I said "it's not so much as a belief it's that I'm able to read my role pm so I know.

So does scum MM (and to a lesser extent Ika) just see my push and follow me? but then I sort of feel like he was already a little suspicious of SL so for me it tracks.

All scum had to do yesterday was lurk it out so I could see Flea doing that. Maybe that's who we should have killed yesterday and give SL a chance to actually contribute to the game and see if she could start playing like town.

I also think Inno could be scum. I just hate that he wasn't voting and willing to get his hands dirty.

So my list looks kinda like

scumbot5679
ikarusdk
Marshmallow Marshall
powerofdeath
Auwt
Bakermir
Gikkle
Flea The Magician
Innovation

I mean clearly, there's a semi-guilty on MM now or POD is scum that's going to claim guilty to get a quick win.

So why did you suspect me from yesterday?

I don't understand why you didn't believe I thought it was a joke?

I asked for two insightful reads. You responded by saying you thought me and another of the highest posters were scum without any kind of explanation. I thought you were poking fun at my "free town points for 2 reads" post - it's the kind of joke response I expect when I make that kind of post lol. Maybe it's because my home community isn't very serious but it seemed like a joke to me.
Like I would have taken you seriously if you had made those reads NOT in response to that post, or really just given any explanation at all, but given the context and lack of explanation, a joke was my natural conclusion

[Gikkle]

but anyway, I had you in my suspects because of 2 town pelts you got on your back. I also didn't like the nature of your push against SL

wat
who's the second???

[scumbot5679]

Scarlet's meta was that you're usually incorrect about them when they are town.
You spent the whole of the EoD saying that the above meta was a way to cast doubt on your accuracy (the implication being that scarlet's meta is less accurate than they let on)

(and me saying scarlet's meta was evidently correct was that since they were town, their meta that you misread them when they are town was correct.)

I don't feel like that's a very accurate description of yesterday's events. I thought Scarlett was scummy for empty posting and instead of debating me on that she decided to rant and rave about how wrong I am about her (though she never claimed that I'm ALWAYS wrong on her) and that my early reads are bad. I don't think I ever said that that wasn't true. Your attacks on me continue to be baseless.

[bakermir]

wat
who's the second???

scumbots perspective is interesting, probably normal when I look at their questioning of things and the way they approach you. however, they seemed to have a different tone with ikarus all along.

a. they have played for an angle that seems quite odd for a villager to do
b. their blindspot for ikarus painted a target for DH

either/or

[scumbot5679]

I don't understand why you didn't believe I thought it was a joke?

I asked for two insightful reads. You responded by saying you thought me and another of the highest posters were scum without any kind of explanation. I thought you were poking fun at my "free town points for 2 reads" post - it's the kind of joke response I expect when I make that kind of post lol. Maybe it's because my home community isn't very serious but it seemed like a joke to me.
Like I would have taken you seriously if you had made those reads NOT in response to that post, or really just given any explanation at all, but given the context and lack of explanation, a joke was my natural conclusion

I'm confused. I DID say that I suspected you yesterday for claiming that you thought my suspicion was a joke and ok, fair. But the above post wasn't about that.

its when you said

Literally my first thought upon reading that lol

Are you now claiming that that post was a joke? I clearly didn't take it as a joke so for me it felt like scum just egging on a bad (potential) push from MM.

[scumbot5679]

scumbots perspective is interesting, probably normal when I look at their questioning of things and the way they approach you. however, they seemed to have a different tone with ikarus all along.

a. they have played for an angle that seems quite odd for a villager to do
b. their blindspot for ikarus painted a target for DH

either/or

I have no clue what this means

[Gikkle]

I don't feel like that's a very accurate description of yesterday's events. I thought Scarlett was scummy for empty posting and instead of debating me on that she decided to rant and rave about how wrong I am about her (though she never claimed that I'm ALWAYS wrong on her) and that my early reads are bad. I don't think I ever said that that wasn't true. Your attacks on me continue to be baseless.

Will respond to this tomorrow when I can get on my computer to get quotes and stuff

[bakermir]

@Flea the Magician has like one post?

i am not sure if that is AI

I like their vote on ikarus tho


and Innovation could be brought under spotlight but I feel like he just didn't know how to vote or something lol

[Gikkle]

scumbots perspective is interesting, probably normal when I look at their questioning of things and the way they approach you. however, they seemed to have a different tone with ikarus all along.

a. they have played for an angle that seems quite odd for a villager to do
b. their blindspot for ikarus painted a target for DH

either/or

Huh?
Are you saying they are somehow responsible for Ikarus' death?

[bakermir]

I have no clue what this means

how did you establish your townread on ikarus? can you explain this a bit

[Gikkle]

I'm confused. I DID say that I suspected you yesterday for claiming that you thought my suspicion was a joke and ok, fair. But the above post wasn't about that.

its when you said



Are you now claiming that that post was a joke? I clearly didn't take it as a joke so for me it felt like scum just egging on a bad (potential) push from MM.

I misunderstood what you were saying in that post then, my bad.

[bakermir]

Huh?
Are you saying they are somehow responsible for Ikarus' death?

thats what I got from their ISO.

they are ok with ikarus all along but heavily skeptical of you, SL, innovation and pretty much everyone else

it gives me ideas

[scumbot5679]

thats not really true though. I don't think I really ever said anything about Inno yesterday nor was I all that suspicious of POD or MM. Now I did mention in my last will that I didn't like Inno's EOD or MM but that's more FOMO than really finding him that scummy. And there's a potential guilt on him anyways. So I didn't fink Ika scummy, I don't see the big deal.

[scumbot5679]

even if MM is scum he's plenty capable of seeing/believing that SL was empty posting and even ika agreed with us, though he said it was null. I hate his accusation that I goaded town into voting her when only one other person did and she only died b/c she wanted to venge flip.

[scumbot5679]

fine, I'll just play by myself

[powerofdeath]

I mean clearly, there's a semi-guilty on MM now or POD is scum that's going to claim guilty to get a quick win.

So why did you suspect me from yesterday?

This is very weird because what scum would claim a quick guilty anyway? They dont know each others lol

[powerofdeath]

Also I will vote MM until he hardclaim

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

[powerofdeath]

with 2 dead citizens, you can expect scums to CC the power roles here

[powerofdeath]

with 2 dead citizens, you can expect scums to CC the power roles here

Gikkle is obviously claiming one, and implying that MM is a visiting role, so hes also either PR or mafia

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Oh my god, I had written a wall and it just VANISHED INTO THE VOID because I apparently disconnected from the site by some dark magic. All my comments on the quotes and my conclusions are gone. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


I suspect I was witched/sorcered or that there was bussing last night. I hardclaim (now-useless) Vigilante, and I attacked Gikkle last night, but lost all my shots due to killing a townie, apparently, so I guess I shot Ikarus instead.

As for my attack on Gikkle, I reread the last pages during the night and realized he was very probably becoming a deepwolf by virtue of just... existing and being active, without having been actually towny.

Spoiler : Gikkle posts :

I am not going to rewrite everything in detail, so you get short versions of my comments lol...

Is the fact that the triad hidden loses their role card said anywhere in the setup description? I don't see it, but I could just be blind

I know it obviously says the hidden inherits the dragon head but does it say that they completely lose their original card?

(which yeah this would be how it works but if PoD just skimmed the setup like he said I'm wondering how he came to that conclusion)

3 nothingburger posts that have no relevance at that point in the game, considering zero triad flipped - this is the kind of activity he has that is really not towny at all

PoD is basically null for me
marshall seems to be at least trying to help so I don't really see a reason to kill him today but I'm certainly not clearing him

Fencesitting on me, keeping me "in the freezer" for later, as if planning my lynch eventually
(POD isnt a fencesitting read in my book, but just a natural null on a ghost slot, so that's NAI)

idk
it's not weird for someone to think. Like it's probably a pretty natural conclusion to come to?
I suppose it's moreso the confidence in which he said it which raises my eyebrows.
Not sure I'd kill PoD over it but it does make me curious

More fencesitting and keeping in the freezer

here is my read. Forgive lack of details, we have not long to go and i wanna see the chat more.

De facto Townsperson
ikarus - DUH

Strong Towns
Gikkle - i think we can all agree Gikkle is defacto town leader at this point.
Innovation - resembles my first transition from mod to FM, and everything he's said screams town

Towns
None

Null
Scarlet - vocal so important for gameplay. Would not see her go day 1. Not reading town or scum.
Scumbot - interesting takes and would be keen to hear more.
Furtiveglance - made appearance 1.5 hours before EoD
Banana - no presence so far.

Scumlean
PoD, MM - BUT for pretty weak reasons. If i flip today, I'd like people to pay closer attention to these slots.

Scumread
None

This is the post that triggered my doubts on Gikkle during my nightly reread: the "town leader" position that was given to him felt unjustified, and yet, I sensed that it was a widely shared feeling among players, leading me to ISO him.

I didn't clarify but the "really old bells" that I was talking about earlier wrt the last sentence is that it's phrased in a way that I thought ever so slightly sounded like PoD was an outsider talking to the town? It's not an argument I've seen used in a long time nor have I ever used it myself, but using specifically "town" instead of "we" or a more neutral "everyone" prior to "know your flip" - especially given the use of "our" in the beginning of the post - could indicate a slip of perspective as if he is referring to a group that he is not part of.

Not a solid argument whatsoever but if I'm throwing shade at PoD by saying what I did about the bells I might as well explain it lol

Best post of Gikkle imo, because it potentially shows a scumhunting reasoning. It's not much, though, especially in this setup where scum don't have TMI and want to scumhunt as well

I don't appreciate that scumbot waited until we had like no time to discuss to actually make constructive posts and throw their weight around. Would have liked to have at least 4 hours to prod their brain since they seem more thoughtful than Scarlet gave them credit for.

I'm not against killing PoD but it's almost as baseless as voting flea so I'm not really sure why Scarlet finds it more appealing.

Point-out-y, fits with the "putting players in the freezer" style I mentioned earlier

The same argument could be applied to PoD.

pointouty

What an icky vote lol

This shade point-out sits very wrong with me. Noone had addressed my case, so if he disagreed, why not speak out and fight it? Instead, he just throws shade without justifying anything - there's zero follow-up to this, too. This is not fitting with a town mindset.

If it comes down to it I will be voting PoD but I still don't feel entirely comfortable with it

-vote Powerofdeath

Votes aren't moving and we have only a few minutes so I'm just gonna go here

Can't be accused of not voting, but also can't be accused of anything, considering it's a tying vote on an empty afk slot - safe, uncompromising, once again. The day ends with him having groundless towncred.

Possiblities considering my feedback and his claim:
- He's Deceiver who hid behind Ikarus
- He's Sorcerer who lucky witched me at Ikarus
- He's Vanguard and saw me, one way or another (this one would probably involve him seeing more than 1 people visit Ikarus and him wanting to take the risk to potentially out his DH by accidentally outing the right player lol, so it's unlikely)
- He's actually telling the truth and has nothing to do with my shot not going where it should have

Considering his D1, I am not giving him a free benefit of the doubt here.

-vote Gikkle

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I was disconnected AGAIN when posting this, but I had copypasted it for safety this time lol. This took SO DAMN LONG TO WRITE when it shouldn't have

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Is MM scum? eh idk. My nose crinkled when he said "Whereas you are part of the good triad, I assume? : ]
Why do you believe that (or claim to believe that), btw?" There's a part of me that just thought it was a joke but it IS putting words into my mouth so I was worried that MM was attempting to twist my words for a fake push. I didn't really believe that Gikkle thought that and it furthered my suspicion.

Mafia is inherently evil which is why I called it the "evil triad". It was flavoring not some belief in there being some good/bad triad but I am town thus I said "it's not so much as a belief it's that I'm able to read my role pm so I know.

Uh, not sure why you thought it was anything more than a joke, especially considering the smiley lol. It's not like anyone would actually push you for this, so "putting words in your mouth" is merely exploiting the redundancy of "evil triad". Your reaction reads as towny paranoia to me, so I kinda like it lol, but it's waaaaay overblown.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

thats not really true though. I don't think I really ever said anything about Inno yesterday nor was I all that suspicious of POD or MM. Now I did mention in my last will that I didn't like Inno's EOD or MM but that's more FOMO than really finding him that scummy. And there's a potential guilt on him anyways. So I didn't fink Ika scummy, I don't see the big deal.

What is FOMO? I guess I still have acronyms to learn xD

[Gikkle]

Oh my god, I had written a wall and it just VANISHED INTO THE VOID because I apparently disconnected from the site by some dark magic. All my comments on the quotes and my conclusions are gone. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


I suspect I was witched/sorcered or that there was bussing last night. I hardclaim (now-useless) Vigilante, and I attacked Gikkle last night, but lost all my shots due to killing a townie, apparently, so I guess I shot Ikarus instead.

As for my attack on Gikkle, I reread the last pages during the night and realized he was very probably becoming a deepwolf by virtue of just... existing and being active, without having been actually towny.

Spoiler : Gikkle posts :

I am not going to rewrite everything in detail, so you get short versions of my comments lol...






3 nothingburger posts that have no relevance at that point in the game, considering zero triad flipped - this is the kind of activity he has that is really not towny at all

Fencesitting on me, keeping me "in the freezer" for later, as if planning my lynch eventually
(POD isnt a fencesitting read in my book, but just a natural null on a ghost slot, so that's NAI)

More fencesitting and keeping in the freezer

This is the post that triggered my doubts on Gikkle during my nightly reread: the "town leader" position that was given to him felt unjustified, and yet, I sensed that it was a widely shared feeling among players, leading me to ISO him.

Best post of Gikkle imo, because it potentially shows a scumhunting reasoning. It's not much, though, especially in this setup where scum don't have TMI and want to scumhunt as well

Point-out-y, fits with the "putting players in the freezer" style I mentioned earlier

pointouty

This shade point-out sits very wrong with me. Noone had addressed my case, so if he disagreed, why not speak out and fight it? Instead, he just throws shade without justifying anything - there's zero follow-up to this, too. This is not fitting with a town mindset.




Can't be accused of not voting, but also can't be accused of anything, considering it's a tying vote on an empty afk slot - safe, uncompromising, once again. The day ends with him having groundless towncred.

Possiblities considering my feedback and his claim:
- He's Deceiver who hid behind Ikarus
- He's Sorcerer who lucky witched me at Ikarus
- He's Vanguard and saw me, one way or another (this one would probably involve him seeing more than 1 people visit Ikarus and him wanting to take the risk to potentially out his DH by accidentally outing the right player lol, so it's unlikely)
- He's actually telling the truth and has nothing to do with my shot not going where it should have

Considering his D1, I am not giving him a free benefit of the doubt here.

-vote Gikkle

This is such an awful post lol

Will respond to the wall of quotes in a sec, but in this post, you:

-Admit to have killing ikarus
-Claim to have tried to shoot the most active player (who you were townreading at EoD), someone who can be resolved via dayplay, instead of literally anyone else
-Vote me despite me accurately saying you visited Ikarus
-Ignore the fact that your claim, if true, doesn't explain where the dragonhead kill went
-Ignore the fact that if I was a triad that saw you visit someone that died, I would have no reason to bring it up against you?? What kind of powerwolf would go after a partner when all triad needs is like one ML lol

All in all another v bad post from you, will get to responding to the stuff in the spoiler in a sec

If there is a bus driver that bus drove me, they should claim. If not, MM is likely just a wolf.

[Gikkle]

This is such an awful post lol

Will respond to the wall of quotes in a sec, but in this post, you:

-Admit to have killing ikarus
-Claim to have tried to shoot the most active player (who you were townreading at EoD), someone who can be resolved via dayplay, instead of literally anyone else
-Vote me despite me accurately saying you visited Ikarus
-Ignore the fact that your claim, if true, doesn't explain where the dragonhead kill went
-Ignore the fact that if I was a triad that saw you visit someone that died, I would have no reason to bring it up against you?? What kind of powerwolf would go after a partner when all triad needs is like one ML lol

All in all another v bad post from you, will get to responding to the stuff in the spoiler in a sec

If there is a bus driver that bus drove me, they should claim. If not, MM is likely just a wolf.

*one of the most active
Ikarus beat me by a quite a bit and scarlet made slightly more posts

Point simply being that shooting me I think would require a lot of confidence I don't see why you would have

[powerofdeath]

What is FOMO? I guess I still have acronyms to learn xD

fear of missing out, its not a mafia acronyms

[powerofdeath]

Vigilante
You may attack a player at night. You may do this twice. If you kill a town, you lose any remaining attempts.

This is also sus, I wouldnt be hipfiring on Night 1 as a vigilante lol

[powerofdeath]

If there is a bus driver that bus drove me, they should claim. If not, MM is likely just a wolf.

Since BD is a guaranteed role in this game, its possible ikarusdk and Gikkle were both bus driven. Even if you were bussed, MM is still likely a wolf since he tried to kill you but it went to ikarusdk instead

[powerofdeath]

Scenario A: Gikkle is Sorcerer who witched MM into ikarusdk
(super unlikely because from Gikkle perspective, why would you bus so hard to get rid of the only killing role in your team? Even if MM is vigilante, Sorcerer doesnt know that)
Scenario B: Gikkle is Beguiler who hid behind Ikarusdk
(Unlikely because how lucky does Gikkle need to be to be spoton about MM?)
Scenario C: Gikkle is a Vanguard/Detective/Lookout
(Likely, though I doubt a Vanguard would risk bussing their mafia partners)

[powerofdeath]

Scenario D: Gikkle could be anything and is just random guilting MM.

This is possible, scenario includes Gikkle being corrupted Citizen(immunity on Night 1), Gikkle was bussed with Ikarusdk, or MM was roleblocked

[Gikkle]

Spoiler : response to MM :

3 nothingburger posts that have no relevance at that point in the game, considering zero triad flipped - this is the kind of activity he has that is really not towny at all

Are you just ignoring the fact that this was directly related to me trying to resolve PoD's alignment?
The last of the relevant quotes you separated from this group of posts for some reason, but it's fairly obvious I'm trying to determine if PoD had slipped there
like I even say it in the last post, and the first post has PoD's post quoted, so idk how you came to the conclusion I was making these posts for no reason

Fencesitting on me, keeping me "in the freezer" for later, as if planning my lynch eventually
(POD isnt a fencesitting read in my book, but just a natural null on a ghost slot, so that's NAI)

I basically shielded you for day 1 (well up until that last vote on scarlet, but even then I didn't vote you), and somehow me not being super confident in you beyond day 1 is me "keeping you in the freezer"? You realize that you're an infinitely better lynch than PoD for me if I was triad since you have more experience with me (and thus know my meta better) and since you'd be more easy for me to determine as town? So me not immediately taking Scarlet's offer to vote you is like, not triad agenda at all lol

This is the post that triggered my doubts on Gikkle during my nightly reread: the "town leader" position that was given to him felt unjustified, and yet, I sensed that it was a widely shared feeling among players, leading me to ISO him.

I wasn't able to be super duper active at EoD, but leading up to it I was pretty much the only one making reads and trying to generate discussion. I got the momentum off of Ikarus (by asking innovation to unvote), and tried to get a good wagon going. Like Ikarus said, there WEREN'T a lot of good wagon targets. If I had been able to be more active EoD (instead of just popping in every now and then) I would have tried to force the wagon away from Scarlet and Ikarus more, but saying the title of Town Leader was entirely unjustified (not that I think I was prime town leader material yesterday) is ignoring the fact that I was the one spending the most time trying to get discussion to kick off and trying to get people to agree on a vote target.

Best post of Gikkle imo, because it potentially shows a scumhunting reasoning. It's not much, though, especially in this setup where scum don't have TMI and want to scumhunt as well

I don't see how that would be my best post to you? I've said this before, but Triad is also looking for their buddies. This post easily comes from me as Triad IMO. My best posts are the ones that make no sense agenda wise, and honestly it doesn't seem you recognize that since you seem to think that me not wanting to push you out yesterday is somehow something I'd do as a Triad.

More fencesitting and keeping in the freezer

Point-out-y, fits with the "putting players in the freezer" style I mentioned earlier

I literally had two people in my "vote targets" bin for like the entirety of EoD, and ended day voting one of them lol

Your "putting players in the freezer" stuff you keep mentioning entirely ignores that day 1 had very little content and thus reason to be confident in literally any read. It's also a bit hypocritical given how you only formed 3 reads that day yourself, one of which you "put in the freezer" (ikarus, you kept the option of pushing him open), and another of which you are now backtracking on for weak reasons.

It also completely ignores the fact that I completely closed the door for both Scarlet AND Ikarus, and pretty much entirely focused on voting PoD and Flea, never trying to vote outside of that after I found Ikarus as town. If we're talking agenda, the person that pushed two flipped townies and is now pushing their one real townread from day 1 has MUCH more agenda than the guy who only pushed people that were basically rand and tried to save the two flipped townies.

pointouty

What's wrong with that? They were saying Flea was probably town for a reason that could in theory also apply to PoD. I thought it was bad logic and thus pointed it out.

This shade point-out sits very wrong with me. Noone had addressed my case, so if he disagreed, why not speak out and fight it? Instead, he just throws shade without justifying anything - there's zero follow-up to this, too. This is not fitting with a town mindset.

apparently not giving an in depth explanation for something with 23 minutes left in the day, at a time when I already was having to pop in and out of thread (note that all of my posts after that point were very short), is wolfy
I can given an explanation now, though. I did have a brief explanation in my will, but it wasn't too indepth

The vote was icky because Scarlet - like me - was one of the few people actually generating helpful content and engaging with the thread. So to vote one of the top posters on the basis of making "very fluffy posts" (which idk maybe they made some but the MAJORITY of their posts were helping solve the game/trying to spur activity) comes across as very opportunistic (jumping on scumbot's logic) & that you weren't actually trying to solve Scarlet

The fact that you voted someone I thought was VERY easy to find as town for such a weak & sheepy reason felt super bad to me coming from you, which is why I called it icky

If I had another thirty minutes to think about it & wasn't worried about consolidating the wagons, I probably would have voted you tbh.

Can't be accused of not voting, but also can't be accused of anything, considering it's a tying vote on an empty afk slot - safe, uncompromising, once again. The day ends with him having groundless towncred.

I voted one of the two people I had said I was willing to vote the whole time. Shouldn't be surprising, especially considering two of my TRs were in contention.

[Gikkle]

I don't feel like that's a very accurate description of yesterday's events. I thought Scarlett was scummy for empty posting and instead of debating me on that she decided to rant and rave about how wrong I am about her (though she never claimed that I'm ALWAYS wrong on her) and that my early reads are bad. I don't think I ever said that that wasn't true. Your attacks on me continue to be baseless.

I was going to continue to argue about this but I think you're response (and the other posts you've made today) have been plenty townie so I'm just gonna drop the point

I will make clear what MY thought process here was just so you understand where I was coming from, but I'm not gonna continue to attack you for it
My interpretation of Nancy's meta was that she was saying you were wrong MOST of the time about her when she was town (idk if she said all the time but the impression I got without remembering the specific wording is that you were typically wrong about T!Nancy)
My interpretation of your response was that you were trying to say that Nancy was scummy because she was exaggerating how wrong you usually were about T!Nancy to try and discredit your push on her - evidently I was wrong about this because it does seem, looking back, that you weren't arguing anything about nancy exaggerating (which was my misinterpretation of this post & this post), but moreso that the reaction in of itself was not townie.

[Auwt]

Ahh, well that does not look good at all.
What a start.

[Auwt]

-vote Ikarusdk

this is mafia

Feels odd, considering you said right before this post you skimmed through the setup.
Is it intentional to mention mafia instead of triad, or pure coincidence?

[Auwt]

Also just to make everyone aware, if I ask something during the next few posts, it does not really need an answer, just expressing my thought in live.

[Auwt]

right, like I said, there's still gonna be agenda (triad still generally wants to push town/keep their allies alive), it's just that even when they are pushing said agenda, scum hunting done by them is gonna appear a lot more "real" in terms of thought process because they don't actually know for sure who their buddies are. Like, even if they push someone they THINK is town, the logic they use can be very similar to that of a townie because technically, they don't KNOW that persons town, and thus the arguments could consist of things they actually sort of believe.

Yeah main problem.

[powerofdeath]

Feels odd, considering you said right before this post you skimmed through the setup.
Is it intentional to mention mafia instead of triad, or pure coincidence?

who cares, i use mafia and triad interchangeably, theres no difference here

[Auwt]

don't wanna vote rn
Marshmallow Marshall - I've liked his thoughts so far. Obviously with what I said earlier about Triad TMI this doesn't mean much, but if I'm gonna vote someone who is actually being constructive, it's gonna be because they are being wolfy. Don't get the impression MM is coming from an agenda driven place with his content yet (ikarus push was reasonable so can't say that's bad) so have no reason to think that. So not interested in voting him.

would rather not vote
powerofdeath - Can't say I have good reason to think this is evil. If anything, referring to ikarus as "mafia" is maybe ever so slightly in PoD's favor since Triad are more likely to be aware that they are called Triad? Possibly intentionally, and wolves could even make that post unintentionally, but we don't have much to work with so w/e
The Scarlet Letters - sort of liked the tone of their posts when talking about the Triad. Felt like they were talking about something they weren't. Not much to go off of, but I don't think they're a good vote.

basically rand
Flea the Magician - Made one weird post and never came back.
Innovation - New, so not really interested in voting them. Possibly opportunistic vote? idk
furtiveglance - Don't think they've posted?
TheBananaBaroness - also don't think they've posted


I'm okay with voting these I guess
ikarusdk - Explanation for his post was fine imo and tbh I'd rather not punish people for trying to start discussion, so I'd prefer not to vote him entirely because of that first post. Now, his other posts aren't exactly constructive, which is weird coming from someone who criticized someone for "no new info", and is apparently trying to "generate content" and "gauge reactions" (I'm interested what sort of conclusions @ikarusdk got from the reactions)
scumbot5679 - This wouldn't be a terrible vote. Don't particularly like their posts.

(I have read some future post, claim and votes)

I like the fact that at first Gikkle put MM on the no-no list and then changed.
It's not like they would keep focusing an agenda, at least for that part of D1

[scumbot5679]

much to my chagrin, Gikkle is more than likely town here and MM is scum. Gonna feel bad even there WAS a bus driver but Occams says he's just the dragonhead.

I'm trigger-happy and I did suspect Gikkle but I don't think I would have shot there.