Please tell me why Frinckles wanted to kill you out of spite. Banana said the same and I don't understand. During D2 he just said to lynch you before me. You're just trying to make his opinion invalid. Also, you had a good position during D1??? Wat. I had you as a inactive guy that said QUACK QUACK QUACK QUACK.
Also, you don't understand. Him saying you were SK and then him flipping Mafia just gave you towncred cause people thought Kenny just wanted to do something relevant from his slot.
Thank you Anonymous Donor
Thank you Anonymous Donor
I'll be back later. You can at least try to come up with some believable things while I'm gone instead of the nonsense that you're spitting out, i'm actually feeling better and better about toilet man making the correct decision the more you type ^_^
"Like with everything that's went on toilet man and joey are the only ones who can be the killer. The way Michael was onto Joey was pretty darn good. Nobody suspected Michael either, but a few people suspected me. That makes Michael the better kill then me I think because a serial killer joey would say fuck Michael needs to go first because Ducky will probably be lynched! Now I've offered the parallel universe where toilet man is the killer trying to frame joey. I really think this needs to be resolved after kenny because maybe one of them are actually town."
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It's okey. Everything I say is backed up with quotes and can be seen during D2. You continously dismissing everything I say is quite obnoxious.
I'll go study and come back when Yzb is here.
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I can play without being caught up last I checked that wasn't a crime, but FABRICATING evidence is.
BYEE
Gyr, how probable did you consider it on day 2 that we'd end up in this 2v1? You never seemed to fully let go of the Frinckles townread. What made you townread Frinckles day 1, and what stopped you from agreeing with the consensus that Frinckles was scum flailing on day 2?
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Damn, you go with the worst questions. At the beginning I considered that either Banana or Frinckles must be Mafia but I had townread them during D1 and I didn't feel like any of the two was the clear scum. That made me doubt and at some point I considered the possibility of the Duck/Kenny theory.
It started with just a mention of it being an almost impossible scenario, but as a time went on I started to get more confident. I guess it was a mix of Kenny / Duck weird interactions, the fact that I did not town read Duck at all while other people did (which made me think that maybe Kenny was planning EXACTLY that) and me not being able to see a clear scum between Banana / Frinckles.
I'm not gonna lie, I thought for most of the time that either Frinckles or Banana would be scum, but their agreement to suiciding after lynching Joey/Efe and their way of acting (regarding Frinckles he gave me vibes of the guy that doesn't give a shit and just does random things to see reactions AND Banana comment on anything he does) made me incline towards this Duck/Kenny theory.
And I was correct. Boom.
Also:-vote LuckyDucky
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It appears in Duck's first post at 12:14AM (UST) he reacts to the claims of FBI agent:
then writes another post 6 minutes later at 12:20AM acknowledging that Kenny is accusing Duck of being SK:
Just to be clear about this. There was no 30-60 mins gap.
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I think we can make two fairly reasonable assumptions, feel free to disagree:
1) Kenny always intended to claim FBI agent.
The opening gif seems rather over-the-top if Kenny merely intended to share a scumread of Duck. Though it takes him 4 mins to finally claim (only after CCing me), I think that may be explained by the other claims catching him off guard. In particular, my claim to be FBI and to have actually found the SK (joey) may have made him hesitate. If Kenny really did simply intend to push Duck without the agent claim, he presumably would have had some case prepared against Duck, based on day 1. However, Kenny never shared any reasons for scumreading Duck's day 1 play. All the shots Kenny did take at Duck were in reaction to his day 2 play:
Even if the Kenny/Duck mafia theory is true and Kenny didn't want to successfully lynch Duck, he'd still want to share the case against Duck because Kenny would have intentionally made the case fallible in that scenario.
2) Kenny and his teammate always intended for Kenny to be bussed
Throughout the whole of day 2 (or at least a sizable portion of it) Frinckles was defending Kenny very hard. Yet noone asides Frinckles seemed to really consider siding with Kenny, even tho they could have made 4 votes with Frinckles/Efekannn02/Kenny/scum-partner. I think it makes sense this was always intended as a bussing strategy, and that the plan was for the FBI agent to CC and get Kenny lynched and then for the agent to get shanked in the process.
Even if we adopt the Gyr/Kenny scum POV, Kenny still would not have wanted to succeed in his lynch. As we all seemed to agree, town would probably lynch Kenny out of spite the following day and hand the game to the SK. I would expect Kenny to figure that out overnight and not make that kind of misplay.
Yes, I consider them to be good assumptions. I didnt consider Kenny would have used arguments regarding D1 if he had it planned to push Duck without a claim.
Regarding the second one I'm 100% aware it's correct as Duck couldnt side with Kenny ^^
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yzb come on I want to talk with you >
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Okey. I'll be sleeping soon tho.
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Quack?
I will be on about an hour before the day ends to answer any final questions. I don't know if you have seen Lord of the Rings but Gyro is like Grima Wormtongue in this situation.
Your comparisons are horrible.
Thank you Anonymous Donor
Not as horrible as your ability to act like a town member now that you are revealed!!!!QUACKK!!
It's funny because I don't have constant sentences saying that you are faking being town, i've maybe said it once or twice along with what I believed your and Kens game plan to be. The exaggeration you've been laying down and straight up misleading evidence about things that didn't even happen in this game are tell tale signs of the mafia just saying.
This is where I'm at after giving this a fair amount of thought.
I still believe Kenny intended to claim agent from the get-go, which has been a critical assumption in some of my deductions.
Previously, I conjectured the mafia probably intended to bus from the beginning because scenarios where town actually followed Kenny seemed so poor, irrespective of whether Duck or Gyr were mafia - the game would almost definitely be handed to the SK in these scenarios. However, after more closely examining post-bussing scenarios, I've come to conclude the bussing strategy is also quite terrible.
Of course, mafia has done quite well for themselves anyway. But I believe that has less to do with their strategic decisions and more to do with the credibility of Duck/Gyr. They would have almost certainly done even better if they did not opt for this play. Kenny is a competent player, and had a decent chance of dodging the lynch by simply presenting a plausible town POV without this claim.
Hence, I've largely abandoned trying to form this decision by retracing the steps of the mafia. They either did not bother putting much thought into the strategy or said fuck it and did it for fun.
Also, if Duck/Kenny are the scumteam, then Kenny employed some exceptional acting on day 2. Though at the time I thought their first interaction was a bit off, having reread day 2 Duck's reactions to things feel very natural (given the personality Duck has presented) and Kenny deserves an oscar for what seems like extremely real desperation throughout the course of day 2. If he intentionally was trying to the turn the town against him, then he'd feel content having botched his FBI agent claim in a natural-seeming manner and any subsequent check-ins would have just been doubling down on the acting.
I'd also expect Kenny to have made justifying Duck as SK a much bigger part of his play if his intention was to make it seem like they're on different teams. If Kenny and Duck's acting is so good, I'd see no reason not to go all out. Somehow, Duck feels like the afterthought SK check that Gyr told him to use based on Gyr's own probable SK read on Duck. How come there are no fabricated arguments between Duck and Kenny that would have been prepared overnight? How come there are no contrived reads prepared? Kenny's play seems consistently focused on self-preservation and throwing shade, with much more of the former as the day wears on.
It seems much more plausible Kenny and Gyr agreed upon this play and also agreed that Gyr would bus Kenny if it seemed to be going horribly or if Kenny ended up in a CC war with a player he couldn't beat. The interactions between Gyr and Kenny have not aged well, either - particularly the part where Kenny apparently convinces Gyr to consider duck based on Gyr's townread of Frinckles. It looked like Kenny signalling to Gyr to give him a second chance, and so Gyr unvoted and threw a bit of shade on me. I frankly regard it as a little crazy for Gyr to hold his townread of Frinckles THAT highly, when he himself admitted Frinckles was giving off no town vibes. The extent to which he entertains the fringe scenario on day 2 feels unwarrantned, especially in light of how little reason he actually gives to scumread Duck, specifically. Also, Kenny appealing to Gyr's theory of the bus to convince him to lynch Duck is ballsy as fuck if Duck was actually scum with Kenny.
If we imagine the Gyr/Kenny scumteam was hoping to successfully win the CC war, then maybe they just looked at 2v2v1 and thought the odds were good for them. If they didn't preempt the town ganging up on them, it's possible I suppose. And it's as if Gyr seemed to have lost interest in the game when Kenny's loss of the CC war looked imminent, until he started talking about his theory. Maybe the theory was just interesting, but it's difficult not to also see it as a mafia realizing he still has a path to victory.
This site does have a precedent for really good players coming back as smurfs with quirky personalities and hiding aspects of their play / beliefs to shock us, but Duck has been extremely consistent throughout the game, and seems to very genuinely believe his philosophy. Hence, it's difficult not to take it at face value when he says he wouldn't waste a scumpartner on flimsy mind games and wouldn't agree to a bus. Even if he is a smurf, I can't see reason for him agreeing to such a hideous strategy other than just for lulz.
It's not an easy choice because Gyr feels very towny. If Gyr is town he hasn't made any kind of misplay, Duck and Kenny just genuinely played an insane game.
Oh it's 1 hour left great.
Thank you Anonymous Donor
Hullo
Well if there's anything to ask now would probably be the best time to do it!
Before I say anything: scum Gyrlander feels either scum or neutral.
Town Gyrlander feels town or scum.
You consider me very towny, I can only be Town.
And no, I can not give much arguments, but it's like this. I suck as scum unless I play some CC weird play that people actually believe.
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Let me answer your big post.
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I mean I kind of got lost halfway through toilet mans big post, I still am going to say he over thinks things way to much lol
Toilet man, I feel you have probably already made your decision after your big post, but if there's anything I can talk to you about to make you feel better about your decision I will gladly oblige to that. It would make me feel better also because my nerves right now are kind of getting the best of me lol
I probably shouldn't have posted something so long. I woulda formatted it better and trimmed it but there wasn't much time.
I don't really want to make the decision based on "oh gyr isn't good enough to pull this game off as scum." It's been months since your last scumgame, and people can drastically improve in months without doing anything - just growing up. That basically happened to me a couple years back.
I'd rather you tried to talk about why you scumread duck throughout the game @Gyrlander
I still feel an inactive player that suddenly comes and claims FBI Agent, only to get CCd is a horrible play if you actually want to get someone lynched. Kenny had very high probabilities of being easily CC'd and OFF WITH YOUR HEAD. He knew he couldn't take that risk, and decided to go with the bussing play only with a twist: he's claim his partner as SK. Everything would go as planned: he'd get lynched (foreseeable) and then his team mate would get town credibility.
He had to take the risk of having Michael / Joey CC him, which MAYBE would have gone in his favour and Duck would have been lynched, but the chances were incredibly low and he had a very bad D1 (aamirus AFK) so he took the risk.
I don't know why you consider Duck/Kenny interactions to be normal. After having read them I can't share this sentiment with you. It was like he didn't actually want to talk to him directly, more like saying he was scum to everyone else and ignoring Duck (except the occasional you're scum hehe xd).
Also, what else do you expect him to have done? Duck didn't make too many posts D1, and honestly, I didn't give a shit about Duck D1. I had him as a random guy that spammed Quack, would be inactive and probably lynched at some moment. Kenny couldn't make more arguments except for his claim and some comments that he did on Duck's attitude about it being scummy.
I'd never have spoken with Kenny regarding Duck because, as I said, I didn't care shit about Duck. I never read him as SK or anything, he was a random null. Tell me where you read that I thought Duck was SK because that post won't exist. Kenny most probably figured in the first hours that people weren't EVER gonna follow him. Imagine: he knows he's fake claiming and Yzb comes with a SK claim, has been quite active D1 and has a 10000 times more credible claim and reason for checking Joey.
An approximate TLDR of this is: Kenny knew he wasn't gonna get Duck lynched in the first hours of the day and that he was going to be almost town confirmed AND there weren't more things to say about Duck AND Kenny/Duck interactions were weird.
IMPORTANT: I just realised this: Why the fuck would Kenny initiate a CC war instead of myself? Why take the risk of Kenny, the inactive player doing a random claim that would most likely get CCd and then KENNY RIP -> I DON'T WIN ANYTHING?¿?¿?. In this universe I, GYRLANDER, would have been the one to fucking counter claim your ass (or claim first) and get a mislynch.
Also, I was constantly thinking if I was making the good choice. I didn't town read you during D1 as I had with Frinckles and Banana and my trust on you was very thin. However, I decided your claim made much more sense and Joey killing Michael was WAY MORE BELIEVABLE than Duck killing Michael. However, it took me some time to decide and Kenny did a good job making me reconsider my choice all the time.
However, he most probably was aware that his reasoning was flawed: even if my universe considered Duck being Mafia and then he considered Duck was SK then Duck was "SUPOSSEDLY" going to flip either Mafia or SK. Obviously this weren't the only two options cause I could have been incorrect about my theory with Duck being Town. This was so freaking obvious and I immediately responded to him with "why are you twisting reality" or something like that cause I knew wasn't making sense.
Yes, I lost interest in the game because I considered it already solved. Nevertheless, I wasn't a bit inactive because of this: it was because I was a bit ill and went to sleep very soon. I also mentioned that.
Thank you Anonymous Donor
From my last post: "I'd never have spoken with Kenny regarding Duck because, as I said, I didn't care shit about Duck. I never read him as SK or anything, he was a random null. Tell me where you read that I thought Duck was SK because that post won't exist."
The only reason I thought Duck could be scum was because in that universe my reads fit: Banana and Frinckles Citizens | Yzb FBI Agent | Joey SK | Kenny and Duck Mafia |.
My reads were the first five, Kenny being Mafia and Joey SK cause I believed you over him. That was the only universe were Banana and Frinckles were Town.
Also, regarding something I didn't answer before: I said Frinckles wasn't giving me any town vibes cause he was doing so fucking random things and you'll agree with me on this: He was like constantly unvoting, then voting Banana, then asking us if we wanted to switch to Kenny, etc. But I figured it out that he was just probing us to see our reactions and resolve the game. That's why I trust him on my last posts of D2 when Banana was like nonono. I knew Frinckles was doing that.
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@yzb25 ))))))))))))))))) =? =?=??=-
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