Are there rules that prevent Trolls/Fulfillers to reveal their mission ? Or are those systematically somewhat untowny so you'd never want to anyway ?
Are there rules that prevent Trolls/Fulfillers to reveal their mission ? Or are those systematically somewhat untowny so you'd never want to anyway ?
That's why we need to pre-plan multiple shots and account for all scenarios. I will get the scenario list going (thinking out loud here):
A. Flips are not immediate (e.g., we find out only at the end of day).
Then I think we are just stuck to identifying slots to shoot and who will do the shooting. Of importance will be picking the shooters so that potential scum will be put on the spot to shoot their potential scum-mate. We may or may not be able to gain alignment indications, however, seeing as several folks have already expressed wanting to deviate from the plan, and they could be either scum with such agenda or town whose opinions disagree with that of others. So we really need town to get into alignment here. I see not shooting their townreads as a suggestion, but doesn't that defeat the purpose of trying to catch a scum resisting to use their shot? On the other hand, if we won't catch scum this way, then we're just looking at multiple lynches/deaths on D1, which like I said earlier, I would prefer to do later than D1 given the lack of information and game progression in the first day.
B. Flips are immediate
Rather than allow scum to do what SB16 described, we don't have 2nd thoughts right AFTER the flip. We pre-plan our strategy IN ADVANCE and execute to it. That means we prepare in advance e.g.,
i. We shoot PQR and they flip Town, then our 2nd shot will be XYZ. If XYZ flips Town then our 3rd shot is Abracadabra; if XYZ flips Scum then our 3rd shot is Chewbacca.
ii. We shoot PQR and they flip Scum, then our 2nd shot is ABC. Etc.
Takumi/MM/Loldebite/Boba/SB16
I wanna lynch in here today, I think
Martin/Paopan/Hollowkatt/Seanzie/pqrn/DrZ/Bradland/Deathworlds most probably contains one scum but none of them have pinged me really
Oliverz I exclude only because he hasn't posted yet and I think he's pretty easy to read a lot of the time
@Boba Fett what are your thoughts on the game rn?
You see why I ate 2 bans? Stupid shit people do like what Seanzie is doing. Don't be like Seanzie.
I am afraid I am also not connecting the dots. Deathworld (in my town group) was pointing out that yes, scum can and will interfere, and increasing the number of lynches (via ITA) will not change this fact. Does that mean we start doing no-lynches (not plausible ofc) simply because scum will always have the ability to interfere? I think not.
I do agree with you, SB16, however, that selecting multiple slots to terminate would be better done in later game than D1. But Seanzies also has a valid point that as towns start disappearing (NKs, lynches), we will have fewer shots to exercise the extra lynches in later game (and the quantity of scum will alter the balance as you said). There are pros and cons here, unfortunately: such is life (and game)
We had a couple of early troll openers (POE of 14, 13), I think he used the opportunity to put some pressure on me and RVS-voted me. And then pinged me some more and scumread me cuz didnt like my tone. That's not really tunneling, that is pursuing a lead, which is quite Townie to me. It would be more suspect if he poked me couple times, RVS voted me, then moved on and didnt speak about me further.
No I get that it's town coming from him, but I've dealt with 2 death tunnels in a row from this guy and it's a pain in the ass. Especially when all I hear coming from Sean is "I'm a great player!" and yet he's reading me wrong every game and making games a pain in the ass for me.
Like if I hear you talking about how great you are, you better be fucking great and be able to read me, especially when I'm easy to find as either alignment because my mafia game sucks far more than my town game.
But he's read me wrong most games that were in, like that doesn't give me any faith at all in him.
If you don't understand how your posts regarding the plan give the wolves an easy out, I don't know what to say. If you're town, then you've made it much harder for us to successfully pull of a major +EV plan, and if you're wolf, well good job undermining what would make your life much much worse. Yes, it is unlikely enough that it would have been better to not mention it, and so now I am stuck trying to decide if you mentioning it was a townie making a mistake or a wolf doing something strategic.
Voting me on tone is silly (sorry, I used an S-word!).
My alarm bells are going off about your vote for the following reasons:
1. I am Town So natural alarm bell.
2. I hope this is not one of those "oh i got him wrong last game and we were both town, so I should be right this time around"
moving on to serious concerns:
3. You stated earlier that you don't have a high level of confidence in reading me (acknowledging your TvT failure in our prior game). My post looks fake, I think you are hinting that I am intentionally sounding happy because I am scum and am trying to act townie? Using town-optimal mech strategy *IS* solving, or at least allowing town to exercise its limited rights as the uninformed majority. And Sean's strat "just" makes the shots follow the will of the People? A pretty solid plan in my book.
4. You did not offer your own reads of my slot and went to comment on a) Paopan's comments on me, b) "assuming scum~PQ how does that look for Gikkle"[paraphrased] (implying scum~Gikkle is clearing scum~PQ), c) you move your vote away from RVS and vote me. So I am your top vote at this moment, why?
Also I do not like this: I'd at least like to have other people's thoughts on this post, because it looks fake to me.
So what thoughts have you received since then that convinced you PQR is the vote for you today?
@Marshmallow Marshalt
Okay I get shooting in the top wagons to narrow down and stop people from hero shooting.
But I agree with Gikkle that you shouldn't be forced to shoot a townread of yours.
Of course there will be (hopefully) a second option where you don't townread the individual and you could just shoot there.
Simple solution.
With the attitude in your first post, we might as well just forfeit now, because according to this, scum essentially controls both the TK and the NK, which means this game is unwinnable... I'm going to chalk this up to you not really being familiar with 24/7 scumchat though thanks to your second comment quoted here, so let me speak to you about that.
I think you are strongly overlooking that if wolves block-vote like this, it becomes really obvious, both at the time and later on doing wagonomics. Sure, 24/7 scum chat allows for more coordination between wolves, but if 2-3 people jump on a wagon that flips town at the last minute without good reason, that is suspicious. This draws attention to both the people voting and the potential CW's at the time. In addition, any townies involved in such a move will have natural suspicion on the other people involved in such a CW, which puts wolves that block-vote in a weird position where they need to be good at scum theatre, or they're outed (and most wolves are not good at scum theatre IME). So like... yes, scum can theoretically control who we kill with an ITA, but they have to more-or-less out in order to do it. This isn't MyLo, so I'm okay letting the scum team out themselves to control one TK.
As someone who plays almost exclusively with 24/7 scum chat, this is a concern, but not nearly as large of a concern as you're making it. If it was such a big factor, scum would win almost every game with 24/7 scum chat by simply block-voting, and that just doesn't happen.
Speaking of top wagons:
What is the vote count currently?
I am talking beyond the first wagon. Read my post again, I am not sure what you are finding so difficult?
If you are proposing we just go for wagons #1 #2 #3 in that order, then that is pretty weak (plausible for what I called scenario A - no flips - so let's try a 2-for-1 trade type of thing; but not a good "final plan" if you consider scenario B).
I think it would be stupid to just go for wagon #2 #3 as those might be 2-3 vote wagons and really not meaningful when you consider that wagon #1 had the most votes and therefore those players could not have voted for #2 or #3. This is why we need to talk about player names/slots, not just going off vote counts.
What does CW mean?
@MM There is a significant difference between publicly-cast votes/ITA shots vs just allowing scum to privately exterminate us. We can gain deductions from public opinions/votes, we gain less from learning whom the scum decided to target or why.
Also sorry for the shit mood I'm in right now, I'll try to tone it down and get into solving.
Starting to think you're scum here, so let's go with the tunnel option.
I didn't lie. Sorry you're annoyed, but your feelings are on you. Perhaps you and I have a different view on the topic, but I wouldn't call what I did on Page 1 tunneling. You've never seen me tunnel. You might this game if you're scum though.
I disagree. The townies that holster on their TR will be expected to shoot on the following wagon, and if both of their TRs are top 2 wagons then it's likely that one will end up getting shot. With 5 people shooting, we have 67% chance of a gun actually firing. With 7 people, 79%. Two Kills before the lynch (because I don't think the lynch is disabled, is it ?) is requires us to get lucky anyway.
Like literally Seanzie just fucking lies every fucking game and thinks it's cool.
Like why do people fucking lie all the fucking time?
What the fuck?