sometimes it doesn't*
Oberon- He dead. Did something stupid but I do feel it was pretty transparent and hold the view that D1's early lynch was a scum driven lynch. Regardless, for the finger wagging: when D2 starts before D1 was suppose to end we did something very wrong in my book.
Unknown- Unknown's reaction to the Oberon situation came from a very town perspective. He took time to consider if it was a real claim or not as well as compared the implications of different ways to handle an outed switcher. The Mafia nerd in me loved that he recognized the potential for WvW created by leashing switcher(and hated that he was the only one to do so) but the real AI part of his reaction came from his clear consideration of others reactions. His focus was not on selling his view to the town but rather to figuring out others views. The evolution of his reads are transparent and his reasoning matches his confidence. Granted this is a D1 read from a day that got cut in half but this is my strongest town read. I will probably push against his lynch even if there is a voiced night action condemning him.
yzb25- A decent D1 town read here. There were constant original points that no scum would reasonably make such as post 418. I am not going to go into detail on this slot for -reasons- but they are my second strongest town read.
MattZed- His reaction in post 280 was on par with what I remember from playing with him years ago and his 284 doubled down on it. @MattZed feel free to be upset with me because my voicing a switcher can work with the town was not bait at all and I dislike that you did not see what Unknown did in the situation. I am curious what Deathworlds saw in him but he is a decent town read for me even though I disagree with some of his views. I particularly liked that we came to some of the same original strategies pre-game and constantly seemed to hold the same thoughts through D1 and his thoughts seemed to echo my own over and over. I am a bit bothered by his participation on that early hammer train but his posts felt genuine and his thought process was consistant. Will have to read more into him as the game goes on.
Bakermir- Seems to be stuck in a mindset of 'normal' games where mafia knows their team mates but I very much like their thought process and how this player is going against the grain. I also like the voiced lack of confidence I find lacking in typical scum reads in post 670. My strongest D1 tell is easily pegging the fake certainty scum push in their reads. There is also the consistent pushing against chaos while focusing on peoples thoughts of players other than Oberon which I loved. Decent town vibes here (for a D1 read.)
MartinGG99- Small town lean on this slot based on his role claim. Posts like 633 speak to a level of uninformed perspective in a genuine way. It’s a soft read but his consistency and reasoning in his vote is strongly supported by his claim. A part of me wants to use host WIFOM to say 2 bus drivers + switcher is a troll setup but regardless his voice is right in line with that narrative. I am waiting on host clarification as to if BD gives feedback- if so we should consider this slot verified. Switcher would not be a sustainable BD claim if it is and this should be remembered D3 (assuming BD gives feedback) but either way this guy should not be on the table for a D2 lynch IMO.
Dark Magician- Null to very slight Town lean here. I disagree with the majority of what I can see as his scum hunting but it is consistent. Posts like 519 and 686 speak to a low effort player without overstepping the 'selling ignorance' slip I have come to recognize as a pretty reliable AI tell. Easy potential for a townie who is not paying attention or a scum pretending to not pay attention but either way this slot is LHF. Post 499 he gives Oberon a "Confirmed town" specifically for the BD claim; and then followed through in post 585 voting after MartinGG99 counter claimed but it feels like a natural evolution.
Renegade- Revoted Oberon after the CC which makes sense. Post 511 felt unnatural in that it described his reasoning as avoiding 'big brain plays' but I could call that NAI-scum leaning. Then 514 clarifys which makes it feel a bit better. He is on the wrong side of a lynch but I dont find his posts particularly scummy. I am still not comfortable with this slot
Frinckles- I have to admit my prior read overstated my certainty by a decent bit (as its become my norm for alternate RVS break d1) but I still take many issues with this slot. A part of me hopes I was right and he will reveal the switcher D2 but the resignation to a lynch concerns me quite a bit. Post 382 screams "I dont give a fuck just kill someone" and post 529 felt like the kind of hard position only scum or a sheriff with a scum check would take. His role claim should give him a pass but I want to see much more from this player given my respect for his ability but I do not trust this slot at all. As Unknown pointed out his most (maybe only) 'Townie' action this game has been his role claim.
Deathworlds- I have mixed feelings on Deathworlds. He has very concise reasoning in his posts with original thoughts that make me want to trust him but then in post 664 it feels like he is saying he believes Oberon is town Bus Driver but lynches him anyways? That looks very bad to me although I find many of the other things he points out sounding like exactly the conclusions I would draw. Neutral to slight scum lean here.
Naz- Naz looks bad. Although I take personal issue with someone joining a game and demanding everyone else change their behavior to cater to how they want to play the frequency yelling about people posting too much felt forced and AI. Off the top of my head it felt like it 90% of his posts were passively excusing his lack of contribution by pointing to the post count and telling people to shut up and stop posting. I could easily see a LHF argument here but I generally see that sort of excusing tunnel vision as AI for inexperienced scum. I understand it takes a while to catch up but note the diffrence between how Deathworlds and Naz did it. I also generally look at the ATE tone as scum sided but thats a subject I suspect some people would debate and I can only say rives from my experience. This player would be in my 'totally lynch if theres not a better option' pool.
FrostByte- This might as well be an empty slot for their D1. I give this player about as much of a read as I would give to a player who didn’t show up D1. Lets pressure for participation? They hit the typical 5 minimum posts exactly.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Well you can kinda say I am back in time right now given that D2 is starting before D1 would have ended >.>
(I feel like being a little kid and rubbing this in the towns face for a while on principal even without considering you guys just lynched a TPR)
I was baiting the switcher out but yes- I would work with a switcher. I believe Unknown covered the potential I was hoping for in #2 on a list of potentials on the subject with WvW conflicts that I feel is a very real potential. The critical part is that it happens early in the game so we don't risk them leveraging a situation between the Triad and the Town but honestly with the way town reacted to Oberon's fake claim I see little chance of someone working with us now. In a word- I want the 2 birds in the bush more than I want the bird in the hand because I am a greedy fuck who wants feathers in his cap more than 'just winning' : )
I would still like to encourage any player who was switcher yesterday to come forward and work with the town today. Every single day you will have this opportunity and it is still in your best interest to eliminate that switcher role regardless of if you became Triad or Town. I will ensure stupidity like yesterday does not happen if you step forward
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Self Conscious*
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
@deathworlds Whats your read on MattZed?
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
It was relevant to the conversation. I'm not going to apologize for furthering relevant discussion.
You bitch about me not participating, then zero in on me and try to scumpaint me for talking.
And if you could fucking read, I don't think it was a bad lynch. Don't try to misrepresent how I feel about shit when I've explicitly stated the opposite.
I really just don't care. I had stuff going on too and other people in this town screwed up hard D1 >.>
I can respect that you stand behind a view that some would consider untenable but it does not change the simple pragmatic fact that your D1 participation was on par with an empty slot in my mind. If you have 5 posts or 500 I will still call out things I notice about you so do not expect any special treatment. I have only become more of a cold cutthroat in Mafia as the years have gone on so if you would like to appeal to my good nature that got left at the door when I signed up to play.
The past aside- What are your reads? Which players would you be willing to lynch today and which ones would you push against their lynch? How do you feel about others lack of concern for the role claim in the Oberon lynch?
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Your good nature can go fuck itself.
Cutting the day short usually hurts town but it really didn't much in this setup. No mafia night chat means it hurt both sides equally. I guess an argument could be made that it benefited switcher but the temporary nature of that alignment means that any benefits are minimal.
I've already answered about my reads for yesterday. Who I'm willing to lynch today is gonna depend largely on today because d1 reads are usually trash
NAI but you can look up some of the guides I wrote if you want to know the thoughts I have on D1 play theory.
And be careful. You might just offend the Dragon Head insulting his fake claim : P
I very genuinely do not care about post count. I have seen Yayap be one of the bottom 5 in posts while having massive impact on games on this site. If I am asking you for content and saying your content is lacking it is because I want to see more from you. You can invalidate my push if you would like and call it 'Scumpaint' but you do not have to answer to me, You will have to answer to the rest of the town as I highlight your lack of contribution. My strongest town read seems to have similar thoughts on your D1 play and I suspect many of the other town players will as well.
If I could give you some advice I would say that ATE will not defuse the towns attention. When your willing to contribute I genuinely do want to hear your thoughts on other players.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
If I believed you had I wouldn't be asking.
Maybe I am wrong and others will feel that you have but consider Unknowns thoughts on you:
Like I said. You do not have to answer to me, you will have to answer to the rest of the town.
If you would like ask me anything and I will trade you in effort providing my thoughts on any player you want in exchange for your clarification on your view.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
and you're still pressuring me for reads? So you want me to list everyone's name and write 3 words about them in a meaningless show of "effort"?
I told you what I was confident about. I'm not gonna copypaste my whole google doc full of notes because half of the annotations would get me banned and because about 80% of my d1 reads end up being shit anyway. Then later scum can use it as a half-assed excuse to piegonhole me into either justifying a read based on almost nothing or accuse me of flip-flopping or scumpainting.
I never do the half-assed namelist townie theater bullshit. It's unnecessary.
No. I am not asking you to "list everyone's name and write 3 words about them in a meaningless show of "effort"?" That would be stupid.
I am asking you to make an effort and grab 'something' about 'someone' in this entire game and make an opinion on it so that we can understand your focus and thoughts.
Even if you do not have any respect for D1 scum hunting 'making an effort' is all that matters. One thing I always push to players is that if you are town simply making an effort allows others to read you. Its when you try to be sneaky and do shady shit that you get in hot water. Oberon is a perfect example of that this game.
If it helps I do not have the intention of pushing for your lynch today. I have the intention of pushing for your participation.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
When someone looks at what you have done and says "Could you do more" saying "I have already done that" makes no sense.
I feel like you are taking this a bit personally and getting upset about me asking for more but as I said earlier, ATE isnt the way to go. Could you simply make a commitment to provide more critical thought D2? I maintain my offer to dig into any player you want upon your request in return for your efforts.
Playing the game is about fun and I don't want my pressure on you to drain that fun from your experience but I have also been beaten by scum who leveraged this nature so many times I am kind of relentless at this point. Take that for what it is.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
I've provided more critical thought in d2 than almost the entire roster did d1. Whether or not you understand any of it or think it's enough is irrelevant and tbh I don't give a shit what you think. You're nobody special.
Fuck off with your critiques, you're not my fucking professor lmao
I can only say that I am the brofessor of nonsense and I don't have the hubris to get into the 'Do you know who I am' conversation.
Here is a guide a wrote that spells out how I view scum hunting https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...f-Scum-Hunting. That should spell out 95% of how I view scum hunting and give you a pretty nice road map to my mind. I do hope you understand that I will never let up on you for your ATE appeals.
You have contributed very little D1 in my opinion and in the opinions voiced by other players so far and you will be held to account for that. There is no need to make this a personal pissing contest and I do not care when you joined the site. All I want is to see effort on your part to hunt scum so I can read you and the people you are looking at. There is no amount of insults, appeals to emotions or external factors that will change that.
Ignore me if you want but understand that the reason I am still being cordial with you is that the majority of my issues with you are NAI. However the rest of the players will probably look at our interactions and your refusal to contribute as AI.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
You claim that you won't get into a pissing contest, but that's the second time you've said to me "Here's a guide I've written". It's a flex and that's pretty obvious. That definitely counts as contributing to a pissing contest.
No shit, Sherlock. I already told you why I didn't contribute yesterday. That wasn't my point. My point was that I've contributed a ton today and will continue to do so. Learn how to fucking read and stop putting words in my mouth.
You already did that by implying that my play has been subpar and showing me a guide you wrote as if it would make my play any better lol you're subtle about stroking your ego but you're definitely doing it, don't fool yourself.
You should because it's relevant to this pissing contest you started
You say cordial, I say fake
You have no idea what the rest of the players will look at. Stop veiling your opinions under the guise of speaking for them.
Stop being a bitch and just say what you mean. All of this carefully crafted tone and subtle suggestion is gonna get BTFO because I'm gonna call you on every bit of it.
We are at an impasse then. Other people will make their own opinions on your behavior. I do not understand why you made it such a massive issue to simply give thoughts on other players but it is what it is. We will just have to see how your behavior is taken by the rest of the town today and I hope you understand you can probably change that opinion at any point by contributing.
I suspect everyone is going to have to measure pride vs alignment in this situation but to say the least your behavior is troubling.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
dude chill he's not asking for a beautifully formatted wallpost rn he's just asking for more over the day. He's probably trying to avoid a mislynch on you given the ppl with influence scumread you and you could easily get Chinese Fire Drilled if you don't do more today
It's not a massive issue. You're making it one.
Why is me not listing all of my scumreads such a massive issue to you?
You mean the opinion that you're proactively assigning to everyone? The one you're trying to feed everyone?
I suspect that you have no idea what anyone else is gonna think and you're trying to sway their opinions about me with this bullshit. You just said that they're gonna form their own opinions but then continued to prescribe your own opinion to everyone else. Seems like you value your role pretty highly.
omg this is like watching one of those supernanny shows
Well, anyway --
-vote Frinckles
I want an explanation on what the deeper meaning behind the friends shitposting was and and what you felt you gleaned from others with it. I want to hear your post-mortem thoughts of the Oberon train. You stated several times you felt the triads were the ones who WEREN'T on the train.
Were there any exceptions to this? Why did you feel that way. Of the two trains, was one of the trains more / less scummy than the other?
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