But you haven't justified any of those reads minus the Mesk one (you're trusting her meta cit claim), have you? If you did, bring quotes, please. You're appealing to a PoE, but never justified the townreads on those who aren't in it; your ISO is full of statements of people being towny or scummy, but reasonings are literally not there.-vote Frinckles
I dont trust any of you fuckers
Also @MattZed can you please give us a list of reads? Yesterday, you seemed to be picking lynches like you were shopping fruits at the market instead of trying to catch scum: your reads were pretty much absent from your reasoning on who should be lynched within the pool of those who weren't in your previously cleared list (and even then, you shifted your vote on me while I was in that pool). I know that is not a popular opinion, but I suspect you don't have a town mindset.
Feel free to ping me if/when you make that list.
Frinckles, why is Mattzed in your list of "not lynching"?
You will die on this hill.
I stated that townread Oberon multiple times early D1 and that I believe Mesk's citizen meta and claim. I did wind up voting Oberon later on but only because he was lurking and honestly needed some pressure on him at EOD.
I stated this amongst others as reasons I scumread Mike.
I explained why I wasn't entirely sold on a FB lynch. Even Helz recognized that this would be a retarded thing for scum to do since we were competing wagons.
I mentioned halfway through the day what slots I wanted to investigate the most. These are in-line with the rest of my play. Matt and I have conversed multiple times throughout the game and I just generally have a bit of a townread on him because he's doing work. I pressured Helz and while I don't have a townlead on him I can't really call his play scummy thus far, he needs to do more.
Anyway, I'll quote something I told Frostbyte because honestly it applies more to you at this point.
Like how the fuck are you going to make a claim that I haven't given any reasons after insisting that you've read my ISO. Here is a link to it https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/searc...archid=3363996
(๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶
And there is really no reason for a MM/Mike team to not be feasible. He didn't even mention Mike in his newspaper lastwill shit and the two have thrown weak townreads at eachother.
(๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶
Going into the night, you were my top scumread. And now here you are misrepresenting me AGAIN.
I voted you because you were acting INCREDIBLY scummy by not having enough scumreads. (and now it turns out BOTH of your scumreads/leans are town) You gave a towny appearance at first, but Helz's read-chart made very clear that your reads made the least sense. You also know I wasn't "shopping" for yeets. I listed SEVERAL times why I wanted to yeet FrostByte, and I spent a lot of time trying to convince everyone else to yeet the strongest scumread I could. At the end of D1, my scummiest-to-least-scummy list was You>FrostByte>Oberon>DM>Frinckles>Mike>Helz>Mesk. I couldn't get a reasonable train on you before you signed off, so I backed off of you. The FrostByte train wasn't going anywhere, so I was fine with Oberon. When he revealed he was TP1, the ONLY options y'all were leaving me with were DM and Mike. Mike was one of my strongest townreads, although faltering a bit lately with his reaction to Frinckles v FrostByte. The choice between Mike and DM was a no-brainer.
You know why being suspicious of me is an unpopular opinion: you're scum. I was trying to get things DONE by making sure the yeet was controlled by a town majority and not left to RNGesus. The fact that no one died last night suggests Mafia don't have a hitman. So scum can't just kill the hardcore townies: they have to somehow cast doubt on them and yeet them. "if there's a deepwolf, my money is on MattZed" is just code for "Matt is obviously town, but I can't let that go through or I won't win the game."
-vote Marshmallow Marshall
@Mike what did you mean by "honest to the point of making himself look scummy"? That doesn't make sense to me. Honesty generally = towny
I don't see anything I like from MM today. This post REALLY feels like white knighting FrostByte, knowing that FB is town and thus seeing where he's coming from. My first reaction to someone casting doubt on an un-CC'd TPR isn't "yeah, this is normal town paranoia." I'm sensing an informed perspective here. (For the record, I'm not ruling out the possibility that FB is MM's partner that he's trying to give towncred, but my first bet is white knighting)
@Frinckles , join me on MM? I agree that there's a reasonable case for MM+Mike being buddied, especially as MM wasn't on Mike's train. I haven't re-evaluated Mike in a while, but there's nothing that's instinctively rubbed me the wrong way like every other post out of MM. Unless you see something I'm not, MM is the scummier of the two.
Mike has been all over the place so I'm staying on that for now, if Oberon wants me to flip then I will but they both need pressure atm.
(๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶
@Oberon you're apparently the MM meta whizz so help us out.
(๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶
Oberon tell us what you think. I have no idea what is going on in your head tbh or are you just gonna wind down because you're confirmed?
(๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶
MM is behaving *exactly* how a scum should behave in this situation: We've just found out there's no senator from the lack of a demand, so scum has AT MOST 2 kills in their arsenal. No kill last night, so 0-1 kills is more likely. That means scum needs ensure AT LEAST 3 town get misyeeted. Given we have two TPRs that can't accidentally CC each other, scum needs to make sure NO town get widely townread. I know a discredit when I see one, and I don't see any reason town MM would be doing it. His reads have been the most out-of-sync with everyone's this game. (always more townreads than town left in the game) I'm *really* not seeing a town perspective behind his actions, AT ALL.
For the record, I just saw MM browsing this thread, about one hour after he said he had to go. His habit of posting may be very selective.
@Helz , if you want to test your theory that pressure leads to participation, add some pressure please.
I don't think so
Not an explaination, but a statement, as I said:Originally Posted by Frinckles
Originally Posted by MMI did say you explained your read on Mesk:Originally Posted by Frinckles
And yes, you STATED you were townreading Oberon multiple times... but you did not explain!Originally Posted by MM
This is a relatively weak reason but a reason nonetheless, I'll grant you that. Enough to justify a vote by itself? Uh, no.Originally Posted by Frinckles to Mike
You said this about this quote: "I explained why I wasn't entirely sold on a FB lynch. Even Helz recognized that this would be a retarded thing for scum to do since we were competing wagons".Originally Posted by Frinckles
Again, that's a statement, not an explaination. You're stating you're not convinced he's scum anymore. You're stating he could be but maybe not. You're stating you could convince people to lynch him. But you're not EXPLAINING anything by saying that.
You said this about this quote: "I mentioned halfway through the day what slots I wanted to investigate the most. These are in-line with the rest of my play. Matt and I have conversed multiple times throughout the game and I just generally have a bit of a townread on him because he's doing work. I pressured Helz and while I don't have a townlead on him I can't really call his play scummy thus far, he needs to do more".Originally Posted by Frinckles
First of all, a list of reads is not an explaination, it's a list of reads. It's fair to give a quick list of reads without directly explaining in the very post if you have explained your reads beforehand (I even did that this game). But when you haven't given your reasonings, your explainations, it's pointless fluff. Frostbyte called it "town theatre" or something like that.
So yeah, I maintain you haven't given your reasons minus for trusting Mesk. I also maintain my vote.
And your ISO link doesn't work.
@Marshmallow Marshall , if you're town, I want you to explain this post. I don't understand it. You seem to mostly agree with Frinckles, but part of it is that "exaggerated fear of early lynch usually comes from either noobs or town." How are TOWN more afraid of being yeeted early in the day than scum are? And if you found his premature cit claim so convincingly from a town perspective, why have you changed your mind since, voting him more than you've voted anyone else?
Its not MM lol. We need to start pushing the right people. I dont think scum has felt the pressure yet because there is very little AI in this thread. I feel like DMs train may have been scum driven... it was such a horrible lynch lol. We are none the wiser for it. I’d honestly be tempted to train everyone who voted DM, it was that bad lol
I’m also all in favour of TP2 outing themselves. My role isnt particularly useful when outed, except maybe for strategizing in secret with people I trust.
TL;DR; we are looking at people who either did not vote or voted DM yesterday.
Mesk is also someone we need to take a look at. Mesk being scum would make a lot of sense; I’m looking at either someone who is really good being scum (Helz, Frinckles, MZ), or an inactive (Mesk).
Scum is laughing at us right now
Honestly, this game is actually hard...
Mhmm?
(no vote on any of those people Matt wanted to lynch)
"You know I wasn't shopping for yeets"... no, I don't :P. You did push for a Frostbyte lynch, but as soon as the narrative was shifting from that, you were in shopping mode. When you were considering who else should be lynched "logically" from my PoV when I said I thought FB/Frinckles was likely TvT, you literally said I should be voting Mike "BECAUSE HE'S THE ONLY OTHER PERSON WITH VOTES ON HIM".
If you had Oberon and DM as third and fourth lynch priorities respectively, I have a hard time picturing you closing the door to "doing DM or Oberon today".
Whether you like it or not, you're relatively scummy in my eyes, and it's not baseless or illegitimate. There's nothing you've done that SCREAMS town from you (if someone sees something screaming town from Mattzed, please speak up), and there are the things I pointed out above that look bad for you.
Also, chances are scum have some way to kill; the only possibility of them not having a kill is if they have a scum bus driver instead. Either way, saying that I'm scum for scumreading you while you're mostly townread by people reeks of OMGUS. It's not like other people's townreads excluded me from scumhunting and finding you scummy lmao.
~~
Just want to say that my accusative posts against Mattzed and Frinckles are a bit snarky, but are in no way meant to insult anyone lol. I'm just proving my point, but I like you anyway :P.
Mike is a bad lynch at this point as well
-vote FrostByte
I’m currently reading Frinckles as Executioner with Mike as target and FrostByte as some sort of Mafia.
Town don't have a team to back them up and sometimes have to intentionally go against the consensus to get their scumreads lynched. Scum have a team to back them up and don't have the concern of getting those who they suspect lynched even if it goes against what others think.
As for your question, the early claim is completely outweighted by the lack of explainations and reasonings from him, especially considering he's one of the main posters.
I honestly have the feeling I had during the MU champs game and while half-spectating some of the "higher tier" games.
And scum won in my game.
This may or may not have something to do with my push at Mattzed too, but that's purely gut and isn't really an argument
I have an idea. What if the person I’m journalizing claims their role in their News post? And then I keep all targets in my LW
That way the other PR can out themselves to me
This is a REALLY bad idea. You've admitted you aren't a protective role OR lookout. If Mafia have a kidnapper or hitman, they can kill TP2 with impunity. If they have a consort, they can RB TP2 without anyone to stop them. If they have an assassin, this may well damn our most powerful role TODAY.
I see no reason to out TP2 until we know more about SP2. If we can neutralize SP2 with BOTH of our TPRs alive, we almost win by default: We have two people who can't be yeeted, and mafia only has two people and thus can never gain majority.
I think Helz is town. I am sure this read will come back to bite me in the ass.