Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

[Ganelon]

Anyways this is a bit of a rant but my question is:
What do you feel about the idea that right-wing liberalism has nothing to do with conservatism?
A second question is, why is the media trying to paint right wingers as immoral nazis?

[oops_ur_dead]

Claiming that the West is a fundamentally racist civilization is not only absurd, it is immoral. We are LITERALLY the least racist society on the planet. And the left should really move back towards the center and worry about the poor, and stop pushing this absurd the-West-is-evil narrative.

I take issue with this because I don't think there are people that claim that Western civilization is worse than any other, outside of fringe extremists. Obviously there are societies with far worse problems, like China with racism and many parts of the Arab world for sexism. The reason people focus on western society is because that's where the people that you pay attention to live. Do other societies have more to improve on? Absolutely. But what can I do about it? Basically nothing.

Anyways this is a bit of a rant but my question is:
What do you feel about the idea that right-wing liberalism has nothing to do with conservatism?
A second question is, why is the media trying to paint right wingers as immoral nazis?

Despite your post where you try to separate conservatism from right-wing ideologies, you're still falling for the American-centric view of left vs right. You say "the left" should really move back towards the center and worry about the poor, which makes very little sense because the left is more concerned with economic equality than centrists. I wonder how much you actually understand these terms and the ideas of the left when you say stuff like this. In fact, I see race issues as being largely outside of the scope of left/right.

I agree that right-wing liberalism has very little to do with conservatism. In the US, however, both have been consolidated into support for Republicans, which are a right-wing, authoritarian, conservative party. The media is hardly trying to paint right-wingers as immoral Nazis, after all, Fox News is the most watched news network in the US by almost double, and I doubt they paint right-wingers as Nazis. In a comparison to the Nazi party, you find a lot of people in the US who disagree with the conservative Republican rhetoric who like the Republicans for economic reasons. Just like how, in the rise of the Nazi party, a lot of their support were from lower-middle class people such as teachers and farmers who didn't care as much about their social policy but supported them for economic reasons. In hindsight, does that give them a pass?

[Ganelon]

I take issue with this because I don't think there are people that claim that Western civilization is worse than any other, outside of fringe extremists. Obviously there are societies with far worse problems, like China with racism and many parts of the Arab world for sexism. The reason people focus on western society is because that's where the people that you pay attention to live. Do other societies have more to improve on? Absolutely. But what can I do about it? Basically nothing.



Despite your post where you try to separate conservatism from right-wing ideologies, you're still falling for the American-centric view of left vs right. You say "the left" should really move back towards the center and worry about the poor, which makes very little sense because the left is more concerned with economic equality than centrists. I wonder how much you actually understand these terms and the ideas of the left when you say stuff like this. In fact, I see race issues as being largely outside of the scope of left/right.

I agree that right-wing liberalism has very little to do with conservatism. In the US, however, both have been consolidated into support for Republicans, which are a right-wing, authoritarian, conservative party. The media is hardly trying to paint right-wingers as immoral Nazis, after all, Fox News is the most watched news network in the US by almost double, and I doubt they paint right-wingers as Nazis. In a comparison to the Nazi party, you find a lot of people in the US who disagree with the conservative Republican rhetoric who like the Republicans for economic reasons. Just like how, in the rise of the Nazi party, a lot of their support were from lower-middle class people such as teachers and farmers who didn't care as much about their social policy but supported them for economic reasons. In hindsight, does that give them a pass?

I just find the politics that are being played right now worrisome. Maybe they are not on the left or their primary, defining characteristic isn’t their position on the left-right spectrum, but most of the people they’re attacking tend to be on the right (usually moderate right, too; nobody attacks the actual far right because nobody cares about them, they actually are extremists lol).

Like, it’s mostly people on the right or people sympathetic to issues advanced by the right that are attacked. That leads me to think that the people doing the attacking are on the left (the RADICAL left, because they otherwise wouldn’t be painting right wingers as nazis).

[BananaCucho]

Anyways this is a bit of a rant but my question is:
What do you feel about the idea that right-wing liberalism has nothing to do with conservatism?
A second question is, why is the media trying to paint right wingers as immoral nazis?

Libertarians are socially liberal, right? Meaning pro gay marriage and such? Feel free to educate me or correct me here. I can respect libertarians. We can disagree on things like the economy and thats okay. No problem.

As far a right wingers being painted as immoral nazis though. I mean, every white supremacist or neo nazi group is a far right conservative group. So while not all right wingers are going to fall into those categories obviously, theres a lot of common ground there. And if you defend the actions of such groups due to common ideals, its not a good look.

Take the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville a few years back. This rally was literally organized by white supremacist, white nationalist, and neo nazi groups. People in the rally were literally carrying flags or wearing clothes with swastikas and other nazi symbols.

Its simple. Don't want to be associated with nazis or white nationalists or white supremacists? Reject them. But like actually reject them. Trump declared of this rally that there were "good people" at the rally on both sides. When a "good person" would a) not support, attend, or DEFEND a rally organized by white supremacists, or b) if they didnt realize that the rally was organized by these groups, once they see the symbols and hear the chants they turn around and go home. How can you reject nazis but stand side by side with them and chant what they chant?

Actions speak louder than words. Saying "I reject white supremecy" means nothing if you then defend a white supremacist rally. This is just one example of course. There'a no painting needed here.

[Voss]

Anyways this is a bit of a rant but my question is:
What do you feel about the idea that right-wing liberalism has nothing to do with conservatism?
A second question is, why is the media trying to paint right wingers as immoral nazis?

Because they don't do NEARLY enough to distance themselves from it.

[Voss]

Because they don't do NEARLY enough to distance themselves from it.

Err, going to be a bit more clear here.

Because American conservatives don't do nearly enough to distance themselves from Nazis that go to and support right-wing rallies.

[BananaCucho]

Because they don't do NEARLY enough to distance themselves from it.

inb4 "stahp callin me a nazi I hate nazis"

[Ganelon]

Because they don't do NEARLY enough to distance themselves from it.

And left wingers do? There is a worrying lack of reaction on the left nowadays when it comes to major social issues such as the riots in America; and these riots are all parts of a greater whole. A couple in the US got painted by the media as racists for defending their home against looters who broke into their yard. It was actually quite astonishing to see the differences in the portrayal of that event between CNN and Tucker (I’m not counting Fox News as a whole because I only watch Tucker, and sometimes Ingraham).

There are many other examples, and I doubt I am in the wrong here. The left really is more radical than the right nowadays. I believe that the elements of the radical right that exist today arose as a response to ideological excesses on the left. This is not to excuse them of course, but they’ve played a major role in polarization.

Take climate change for instance. There is a really high chance that climate change will not be a significant disaster this century. If you take a look at various statistics the environmentalists like to peddle as a) evidence of human influence on the climate and b) evidence of a major humanistic catastrophe occurring later, you’ll find that many of them have no actual basis in reality. There is evidence to suggest that humans are influencing the climate to a significant extent, but the evidence also says that carbon emissions are actually decreasing (and its not because of green energy): developed countries are now switching to cleaner power sources like uranium and natural gas, which do not pollute. There’s a plethora of other reasons, all arising from increase industrialization, technological development and economic growth: forests have actually started growing back in Europe and America, precisely because agriculture has become more efficient and needs less space. I see apocalyptic environmentalism as coming precisely from the left, and more exactly, it’s coning from people who I do not trust: a poll revealed that a significant proportion of British children were convinced that they wouldn’t live past the age of 30 (because of climate change).

This is just an example of many.

[BananaCucho]

And left wingers do? There is a worrying lack of reaction on the left nowadays when it comes to major social issues such as the riots in America; and these riots are all parts of a greater whole.

Left winger views don't align with nazis, who are far right wingers. So the answer is yes, left wingers distance themselves literally on the other end of the political spectrum.

Not all right wingers are nazis. But nazis ARE right wingers.

What viewpoints do nazis espouse that align with the left?

[Ganelon]

Left winger views don't align with nazis, who are far right wingers. So the answer is yes, left wingers distance themselves literally on the other end of the political spectrum.

Not all right wingers are nazis. But nazis ARE right wingers.

What viewpoints do nazis espouse that align with the left?

My point is that the left does even less than the right to distance themselves from their rabid, dangerous, radical cousins.

[BananaCucho]

My point is that the left does even less than the right to distance themselves from their rabid, dangerous, radical cousins.

You asked this:

why is the media trying to paint right wingers as immoral nazis?

The response you got to your question is this:

Because they don't do NEARLY enough to distance themselves from it.

This has nothing to do with radicals on the left. You were given an answer, you can address the point or you can try to distract by pointing out flaws on the left.

But pointing out flaws on the left doesn't change the fact that nazis and right wingers are conflated because they are "cousins", as you put it.

[Voss]

Have you ever heard of lynching?

Honestly, it also looks like you have no idea what your own points are. Look at how like 5 pages back you pointed out that the Jim Crow laws were actually evidence that the Confederacy was racist, now suddenly you're using it against the north?

You asked this:



The response you got to your question is this:



This has nothing to do with radicals on the left. You were given an answer, you can address the point or you can try to distract by pointing out flaws on the left.

But pointing out flaws on the left doesn't change the fact that nazis and right wingers are conflated because they are "cousins", as you put it.

Just to reiterate, (though it's unneeded, since Banana already did a good job here) :


Mag, you "countered?" my post about my take on why nazi-ism is being associated to conservatism by talking about climate change. what??

I would not expect these types of logic jumps on mafia site. If these logic jumps have been prevalent throughout this thread, props to the people diligently responding to theses posts.

[oops_ur_dead]

I'm going to counter that by saying that I literally know everything I know about the US from watching Rachel Maddow and listening to Anita Sarkeesian podcasts, and let me tell you, the US is definitely far-right nowadays.

[Voss]

My point is that radicalization, while it exists on both sides, is worse on the left.

Anyways this is a bit of a rant but my question is:
What do you feel about the idea that right-wing liberalism has nothing to do with conservatism?
A second question is, why is the media trying to paint right wingers as immoral nazis?

so the answer to "why is the media painting right wingers as nazis" is "radicalizations are on both sides and the left is worse"? That's not an answer, thats fallacious distracting.

It seems like your responses are more suited to a separate thread where you post the statement: "Left wing radicalizations are worse than right radicalizations for reasons x, y, z". One of those reasons being climate change or something. Another reason could be that rioting is better than nazi-ism.

That is not what you asked, and you did nothing to disprove my answer, nor agreed with it. I think my reasoning is spot on.