Neutral Killer vs The Mafia/Triad

[TheDarkestLight]

Note. This does not apply to Forum Mafia, only SC2 Mafia. Also note, this is considering the most common, non troll settings I see. Also, this is my personal opinion, if you think it's wrong then good for you.

Edit: I'm not sure if this has been talked about yet, but I was too lazy to search for the forums for it, so if it has already been talked about, oh well.

Early on in SC2 Mafia the balance between the Mafia and Neutral Killers was where it should be. A Serial Killer for example, was on par with a Godfather, yet the SK being able to flat out killer Role-Blockers and potentially not get revealed by the Escort/Consort, while the GF was simply immune to them and might be caught by it, yet was also immune to the investigative roles. The Godfather had a very powerful advantage over the Serial Killer though, and that was the fact he had allies, and potentially could even be replaced numerous times -A GF and two Consigliere as Mafia team-. Of course the fact that the Neutral Killer won ties over the Mafia, and could kill most of its members with the exception of the Godfather, and then win the tie, while the Mafia could only kill the Neutral Killer if they got the majority for lynching, or a Consigliere revealed as some form of investigative role and tried to lynch, which is a very risky play.
This made the game have a subtle -yet not definite- rock-paper-scissors type feel. Neutral Killers were capable of easily damaging the Mafia if they got them early enough, and Arsonists could kill the entire team in a night if they doused correctly. The Town was very potent against Neutral Killers since they couldn't avoid detection -And most people have the option to be immune turned off-, and had numerous roles capable of bypassing their immunity -Jailor, Veteran, Bodyguard- and a role to flat out stop a Serial Killers kills -Doctor-. The Mafia tended to have an advantage over the Town in that the Bodyguard and Veteran were rarely good more than once -Once a single Mafia died to a Veteran, the others would never target that person again, and a Bodyguard only kills once, unless healed-.
The Implementation of the Triad did little to change that, considering a 9v2v2v2, and only made it harder on the Town, while actually being severely in favor of the Neutral Killer.
Yet the big turning point was the addition of the Kidnapper/Interrogator.
This role threw out the old days where the Neutral Killer rarely had to worry about the Mafia until later when they were seeming to get a majority vote. The Kidnapper/Interrogator could bypass the Neutral Killers strongest asset against the Mafia, it's invulnerability.
Mass Murderer is my favorite role, and I am really good at it. Before the implantation of Kidnapper/Interrogator the only times I had lost was getting jailed and killed N1, walking into a Vet N1, an investigative role catching me N1, or a BG -which can destroy an MM easily, but that's a manageable issue-. I never had to worry about the Mafia, my main priority was focusing down the Town as they were the only ones capable of stopping me, and the Mafia couldn't hurt me until much later.
Here are some personal examples of how Kidnapper/Interrogator can easily destroy Neutral Killers, from both sides of the aisle.

Me as Mass Murderer:

1: It was 1v1v2. I was the MM, the Town only had a Sheriff left, and there were two Mafia. The Sheriff stated that he was siding with me and wouldn't lynch me, yet because of the 2v2, no lynch could happen that day. I thought I had the game in the bag, there was no way they could kill me, and since the GF had died and it was a Mafioso -I had figured out it wasn't a Consig-GF as there had been random RBings on cleared Town investigatives until the GF died, so I assumed a Consort- there was no way they could kill the Sheriff since I had said I was going to spree his house, and since he was a Sheriff he could easily escape. When night came I was thrown in jail and executed by the Kidnapper, while the Sheriff was shot by the Mafioso. It turned a certain win into a quick loss.

2: A few games later I rolled MM again, and I had managed to convince the town I was a BG on Day 2 -Night Start-. I had been attacked on Night 2 and when Night 3 rolled up I was thrown in Jail, and my captor said, "We tried to kill you N2 but couldn't, good thing I'm here." I was then executed by the Interrogator, taking me from an amazing position and ending it.

Me as the Mafia:

1: I was the Kidnapper this game, and on Night 1 the Godfather had attacked someone and they survived, and he PMed me that day that he had been night immune. So since I saw most people were skipping, I Kidnapped this person, and executed them, and the next day they flipped Serial Killer.

2: This game I was the GF, and I wasn't at all responsible for the death of the NK, but I had a front row seat. It was a Day start and the Mayor instantly revealed. The Kidnapper kidnapped him and killed him -One of the major purposes of the role, which is something I like-. Night 1 the Consigliere found an Arsonist, and PMed the Kidnapper the next day, and the Kidnapper proceeded to kidnap him every night of the game -The Town was retarded and since I killed most of the investigative roles they didn't lynch, instead saying to "wait for evidence". What plebs.- He kept kidnapping until it was 4v2v1 -A Witch revealed herself and sided with us-, and he was the first to be lynched, and that night we killed one of the Towns, and proceeded to lynch the last the next day. -Note: I realize a Consort could have done the exact same thing as the Kidnapper had this game, yet I still decided to use this example-.

Those examples show just how capable the Kidnapper/Interrogator is against Neutral Killers.
This would force a Neutral Killer to come out from a comfortable position and try to push a lynch everyday to survive, and although that would be possible in a Forum Mafia, in SC2 Mafia the Plebs require "Evidence" and if you fuck up even once they will turn on you instantly -Unless they're just that retarded-.

My personal suggestion is to have Kidnappers/Interrogators -Not Jailors- not be able to ignore immunity, yet still healing. It allows them to still potentially block the Neutral Killer into oblivion, yet a Consort or Escort could easily do the same thing, or even perhaps, make it where they -Still not Jailor- are completely incapable of imprisoning Neutral Killers -Other Neutrals would still be up for grabs so a Townie could still claim a Neutral Role to survive-.

Spoiler : TL;DR :

Kidnapper/Interrogator upset the balance between the Mafia/Triad and Neutral Killers far too severely. I believe they should be unable to execute night immune roles, or be completely unable to kidnap -yet still target so they can't just look at the list and know whose who- Neutral Killers all together -I wouldn't want that to apply to Jailors however-.

Edit: Apparently somehow what I wrote got put on here twice, I probably made a mistake with ctrl c ctrl v.