Magician’s Circle: “Percentage Mafia” (15P)

[Dark Magician]

Magician’s Circle: “Percentage Mafia”

A Percentage Setup.

15 P.
Rolelist:
Double Voter (50% Town, 30% Mafia Traitor, 20% Neutral Survivor)
100% Town (50% JOAT, 50% Dreaming God)
90% Town (30% Gun Dealer, 30% Vigilante, 20% Poisoner, 20% Arsonist)
80% Town (30% Huntsman, 30% Babysitter, 20% Doctor, 10% Detective, 10% Assassin)
70% Town (30% Jailkeeper, 30% Cop, 20% Rolestopper, 10% Babysitter, 10% Doctor)
60% Town (20% Lie Detector, 20% Detective, 20% Bus Driver, 20% Redirector, 10% Arsonist, 10% Durable Townie)
50% Town (40% Tracker, 30% Watcher, 20% Vanilla Townie, 10% Cop)
40% Town (40% Vanilla Townie, 30% Detective, 20% Bulletproof Townie, 10% Tracker)
30% Town (50% Vanilla Townie, 20% Treestumped Townie, 20% Restless Spirit, 10% Vengeful)
20% Town (50% Vanilla Townie, 40% Durable Townie, 10% Hated Townie)
10% Town (50% Vanilla Townie, 50% Miller)
100% Mafia (50% Monk, 40% Brute, 10% Strategist)
80% Mafia (20% Role Copier, 20% Rolecop 20% Roleblocker, 20% Actress, 20% Tailor)
50% Mafia (30% Janitor, 30% Framer, 20% Redirector, 10% JOAT, 10% Traitor)
100% Neutral (20% Dancer, 10% Masochist, 10% Trickster, 10% Poisoner, 10% Double, 10% Arsonist, 10% Serial Killer, 10% Senator, 10% Guardian Angel)

Ignore the First Percentage as it’s kinda irrelevant and doesn’t really have any actual purpose.
But the (Brackets) is the Roles the slot could be.
Each Percentage is the likelihood of that slot getting that role)
(I’ll be RNG’ing out of 10. Each Percentage has an extra number equal to their Percentage, ex. 10% is 1/10, 20% is 2/10)

All Basic FM Rules Apply: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...um-Mafia-Rules
Majority + Plurality
Mafia may talk with each other 24/7 unless they are dead.
Game Length is 48 hour Day Phases and 24 Hour Night Phases
Failure to post within 24 hours results in a Prod.
The second Failure to post at least 5 times within the next 24 hours results in a Replace Out.
Death Notes are not allowed but Last Wills are allowed.
I’ll allow a player to Suicide by privately DMing me if they can provide a good reason to do so, but it’s recommend you just replace Out instead.
Mafia have Multitasking and Factional Killing. (Meaning they can perform both their normal action and Factional Killing on the same night)
There is no Notification Feedback from other roles. Meaning you will not know if you were Poisoned, Roleblocked, Bus Drived Etc.
The Double Voter is just someone with 2 Votes, that’s it.

What each Town does
JOAT - You receive 3 different 1-Shot Town Abilities but you can only use 1 Per Night
Dreaming God - At the start of the game you are assigned 5 or more Gods you can call upon each night once and each have an ability but you don’t know what that Ability is. As such please choose 2 targets in case it’s an ability that would require that
Gun Dealer - Hand someone a gun during the night and that player can only use it the following day by typing “/Shoot (Player)” Publicly and Pinging the Host
Vigilante - Attack someone every night.
Poisoner - Poison someone every night and they die of Poison at the end of the following day
Arsonist - Douse someone every night or ignite all your Doused targets killing all of them.
Huntsman - Choose a target each night and if they are attacked, you will take the attack for your target giving your target immunity to that attack as well as you will kill their attacker.
Babysitter - Choose a target. If you die at night your target will also die with you and this cannot be prevented.
Doctor - Each night choose a target and if that target would be killed, you will heal them making it so they won’t be killed tonight.
Cop - Each night Choose a target and you will be told if they are Aligned with Town, Aligned with Mafia or a Neutral Killer (Poisoner, Serial Killer, Arsonist, Senator)
Assassin - You have 1 Attack. Your attack cannot be stoped in anyway and is considered 0.3 on OoO. You can also instead decide to publicly shoot someone other then yourself during the day by typing “/Shoot (Player)”.
You will be revealed to be the shooter
Jailkeeper - Choose someone and jail them.
Making them unable to perform their night ability and granting them night immunity for the night.
Rolestopper - Choose a target and Roleblock all their visitors making it so their visitors don’t perform any actions tonight.
Lie Detector - Choose 1 Post During the day and the host will reply with either. “Truth” (Post is True) “Lie” (Post is False) or “Maybe” (Host doesn’t actually know the answer to your question)
Bus Driver - Choose 2 targets, anyone who targets one of the targets will visit the other target instead.
Redirector - Choose 2 targets and force your first target to visit the second.
Tracker - Follow someone each night to see who they visit
Watcher - Watch someone each night to see who visits them
Detective - Check a player and compare their alignment with your previous checked player. (Same or Different.)
Vengeful - Upon your Lynch, you will choose someone to be lynched along with you.
Restless Spirit - While your dead you can still vote but you cannot talk and your considered a dead player so you don’t effect majority vote.
Treestumped Townie - While your dead you can still talk but you cannot vote
Bulletproof Townie - You have night immunity
Durable Townie- If you would die at night, you will die at the end of the following day instead
Hated Townie - You take 1 less vote to lynch
Vanilla Townie - You have no abilities
Miller - You will appear to be a Member of the Mafia/Lie to Investigation Results.

What each Mafia does
JOAT - You receive 3 different 1-Shot Mafia Abilities but you can only use 1 Per Night
Monk - Your attacks aren’t considered as Visits and effects roles in such ways, You cannot be roleblocked, redirected, bus driven or anything that can stop you from visiting your original target. You also appear as Town to Investigation Results.
Brute - You are Night Immune, Your attacks go through Healing and Night Immunity You have 1 Bruiser Attack. Your attack cannot be stoped in anyway and is considered 0.3 on OoO. You can also instead decide to publicly shoot someone other then yourself during the day by typing “/Shoot (Player)”.
You will be revealed to be the shooter
Strategist - Choose 2 targets. Anything that happens to 1 of the targets will also happen to the other target. You will also have apply an effect to your first target, there are 4 possible effects but only 1 will take place. They could be Roleblocked which prevents them from performing their night action, They could be healed if they would be attacked, They could be Poisoned which will make them die at the end of the following day or they could be Delayed making them preform their chosen action the next following night instead.
Role Copier - Target Someone During the night and this Roles ability now becomes that Roles Ability. You will also receive the Town Role Name of the Role you copied.
Alternatively, you may swap this role with another 80% mafia role.
Rolecop - Check someone each night to see their exact role.
At the start of the game you are told a town role not present in the game.
Roleblocker - Target Someone Each night and make them unable to perform their night abilities
Alternately, once per game you may Roleblock everyone during the night.
Actress - During Each night Target Someone.
Upon death, your Role will appear to be the role of the last player you targeted.
Alternatively, once per game during the night you may fake kill yourself and have yourself return to thread 2 days later.
Tailor - Choose a target and a Role Name.
If that target dies tonight their role will appear to be that Role Name instead of their original role. (Unless the Role Name is their original role)
Alternatively, you may once per game during the night Fake Tailor Kill a player and have that player return to thread 2 days later. Within that time the player both phases and actions wise is treated as if they are a dead player.
Janitor - Choose a target. If that target dies they will have no last will and their role will appear to be “Cleaned” instead of their role being shown. You will receive their last will and real role.
Alternatively, once per game during the night you can target someone who claimed their role the previous day phase, that player will be killed and cleaned during the following day at a random time.
Framer - Choose a target and they will appear to be a Member of the Mafia to Cops and Detectives and be known as a Liar to all Lie Detectors.
Redirector - Choose 2 targets and force your first target to visit the second.
Traitor - You do not share the mafia chat with the other mafia. They don’t know who you are but you know who they are.
You are also given Dreaming God abilities.

What each Neutral does
Dancer - At the beginning of the game choose 3 players to dance with. Those players will be roleblocked if they visit each other. Every night you may choose a player you are dancing with and Roleblock all their visitors.
Masochist - Each night you may choose a player and redirect all their actions to yourself.
Trickster - Target a player during the night and for the rest of the game prevent them from visiting you. Once per game during the day, give someone a 1-Shot Loki dreaming god ability and you may decide what that ability does however the ability must benefit your chances to be executed in some way.
Poisoner - Each night you may choose to poison someone and they will die at the end of the following day.
Double - Once per game you may shoot someone during the night and inherit their role and clean them.
Arsonist - Douse someone every night or ignite all your Doused targets killing all of them.
Serial Killer - Kill a Player Each night
Senator - During the night you may submit a message to the host to be posted the next day.
The message must contain a realistic demand of some sort. If the demand is not carried out you gain one night kill. You store night kills and use however many you want that you’ve stored during the night and if you are attacked and still have a stored night kill you will survive the attack but lose one stored night kill.
Guardian Angel - You have been assigned (Player) as the person you deem to protect.
If they were to die while you’re alive , You will die for them.
Once per game you can choose to purge your target. Giving them Night Immunity for that night and Execution Immunity for the following day.
It will be publicly revealed that the player was purged.
(You can use this regardless if you are alive or dead)
Your target may only be one of the following roles: Double Voter, Detective, Vanilla Townie, Miller, Assassin, Framer, Tailor or Janitor.

Win Cons
Town - Eliminate all Evildoers
Mafia - Eliminate all Town and any Neutral that may oppose you. If nothing can stop mafia from winning the game will end in a mafia victory.
Dancer - Ensure at least one of the players you danced with end game and achieve their win condition.
Survivor - Survive till End Game
Trickster - Get Executed
Double - Win the game with the WinCon of Role you inherited
Guardian Angel - Have your target endgame and achieve their win condition.
Masochist- Get killed at night.
Neutral Killers - Eliminate the Mafia and Town

Order Of Operations

0.0 Durability
0.0 Vengeful
0.1 Jailing
0.2 Night chats open
1.5 Purging
2. Bus Drive/Chauffeur
3. Redirection
4. Jailkeep/Roleblocks (can block 2 and 3)
6.Rolestopper
6. Watcher
7. Frame/Actress/Tailor
8. Investigations
9. Huntsman/Babysitter
10. Kills/Douses/Poison
11. Heals
12. Janitor

[AIVION]

Hello Dark Magician! This setup looks interesting indeed... Do you think you could add important information like: factions win conditions, The OoO, maybe some rules etc? Afterwards one of the FM staff will happily review this.

Thanks!

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Dittoing AIVION here. This guide may help you out if you don't know what exactly is expected.

[Dark Magician]

Hello Dark Magician! This setup looks interesting indeed... Do you think you could add important information like: factions win conditions, The OoO, maybe some rules etc? Afterwards one of the FM staff will happily review this.

Thanks!

I mean the Factions Win Con is the usual One.
Town gets rid of all evil
Mafia gets rid of town and anyone else that opposes them
Serial Killer makes sure everyone in the game dies.

[Dark Magician]

Regarding rules.
Do I just put the times and prod/replacement information or does it require more?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I mean the Factions Win Con is the usual One.
Town gets rid of all evil
Mafia gets rid of town and anyone else that opposes them
Serial Killer makes sure everyone in the game dies.

Can you please update the setup with these, though? The idea is to have everything in the original post so that people don't have to scroll down the thread to check basic mechanics.

A rolelist with all rolecards with details on the way each role works would be appreciated (for example, you cannot assume that everyone knows what a Chauffeur or even a Serial Killer is; it has to be explicited). Similarly, all modifiers must be explained (for example, you need to say what "Vengeful" means).

You can always link the FM rules and stick with them if you want to keep the rules simple, but if you want to add or amend anything, you have to specify it in the setup. For example, if you want to add the deadline before being prodded/replaced, you'd have to write it.

Mechanics are required. This means phase lenght, the nature of mafia chat if there is any or its absence if there is none, if suicide is allowed or not, last wills, death notes, and anything else that you may want to add.

OoO is required. You can use the guide I linked to build your setup with all the necessary elements.


RNG is an enemy of balance. It will be hard to maintain the percentage aspect of the setup without murdering the setup's balance (or at least without having high odds of playing with an imbalanced composition).

[Dark Magician]

Just need to add Colour. Will do so later.
I got everything else.
It Good enough? Or am I missing something.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Just need to add Colour. Will do so later.
I got everything else.
It Good enough? Or am I missing something.

Looks good format-wise (it will look even better with colors too). May I suggest to link the FM rules too, so that people can see what they exactly are? Link: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...um-Mafia-Rules

Dreaming God seems to be RNG God. What prevents the Dreaming God from screwing the Town over by using the wrong spells without knowing it?

[Dark Magician]

Looks good format-wise (it will look even better with colors too). May I suggest to link the FM rules too, so that people can see what they exactly are? Link: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...um-Mafia-Rules

Dreaming God seems to be RNG God. What prevents the Dreaming God from screwing the Town over by using the wrong spells without knowing it?

Nothing really?
JOAT is 3 1-Shots and you know them.
Dreaming God is More then 3 1-shots but you don’t know them.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Nothing really?
JOAT is 3 1-Shots and you know them.
Dreaming God is More then 3 1-shots but you don’t know them.

So I take it that you wish this to be a (very) chaotic game, or at least don't mind it, correct? If so, that is noted and my comments will take that into account. Your setup will be marked as Experimental at the end of the reviewing process for the sake of transparency to the players.

What is multitasking for Mafia? Please specify in the setup (the term is uncommon here).

Are players notified of having been poisoned, jailed, targeted by dreamer god, etc.? Please specify for each ability for which it is valid.

[Dark Magician]

So I take it that you wish this to be a (very) chaotic game, or at least don't mind it, correct? If so, that is noted and my comments will take that into account. Your setup will be marked as Experimental at the end of the reviewing process for the sake of transparency to the players.

What is multitasking for Mafia? Please specify in the setup (the term is uncommon here).

Are players notified of having been poisoned, jailed, targeted by dreamer god, etc.? Please specify for each ability for which it is valid.

Multitasking is where Mafia can perform both their ability and Factional Kill on the same night.
No notifications are in this game for balance purposes.

[Dark Magician]

Yes, while it might be an RNG Setup there is balance believe it or not.

[Voss]

isn't an RNG setup not strictly balanced? you could random something like this

Town
-dreaming god
-gun dealer
-doctor
-doctor
-durable townie
-vanilla townie
-vanilla townie
-hated townie
-miller

Mafia
-brute
-role copier
-janitor

guardian angel that is supposed to protect a mafia

this'd be anti town, right?

[Voss]

or if you wanted something to favor the town

JOAT
Vigilante
Huntsman
Jailkeeper
Lie Detector
Watcher
Detective
Vengeful
Durable Townie
Vanilla Townie

Strategist
Role Cop
Traitor

Guardian Angel that protects one of the more important town roles.

[Dark Magician]

Yeah it’s random.
But it’s balanced in the sense it can favour either side depending on the roles rolled.

[Voss]

Yeah it’s random.
But it’s balanced in the sense it can favour either side depending on the roles rolled.

Doesn't this mean that the roles list is balanced only if roles roll a certain way? Meaning that it could also be unbalanced if the roles roll a different way?

I'm sure people will still play and like the setup, but it's probably not correct to say that RNG is always going to be balanced.

[Dark Magician]

Doesn't this mean that the roles list is balanced only if roles roll a certain way? Meaning that it could also be unbalanced if the roles roll a different way?

I'm sure people will still play and like the setup, but it's probably not correct to say that RNG is always going to be balanced.

In a sense no.
But you also don’t know because you don’t know what rolled.
So I guess it’s honestly just completely situational.

[Dark Magician]

Let’s just say their is a fair chance for RNG to be on either side.
All situational upon what rolls.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Doesn't this mean that the roles list is balanced only if roles roll a certain way? Meaning that it could also be unbalanced if the roles roll a different way?

I'm sure people will still play and like the setup, but it's probably not correct to say that RNG is always going to be balanced.

I completely agree with Voss here. Your setup is meant to have randomness at its core, which is alright, but as I said at the beginning of the thread, RNG is the enemy of balance. Of course, some compositions will be balanced in the end, but a significant amount of them will not be. That is why the setup can only be approved as Experimental: although it has good potential of being fun, it cannot be considered as a balanced setup, and players should have that in mind when they sign for the game. Note that this doesn't mean the setup is bad in any way. I'd love to play it, actually.

Let’s just say their is a fair chance for RNG to be on either side.
All situational upon what rolls.

Indeed, there is a fair chance for RNG to be on either side, which is what we're looking for in this kind of setup. It will soon be ready for approval, but there are a few things that are still missing:

- Please specify what multitasking is in the setup post (expecting players to read the full thread might not be completely reasonable).

- The Double Voter slot could use some explainations about itself. Is the double voter revealed at the start of the game? Does "50 % Town" mean that it has 50 % chance to roll any town-aligned role, or only to roll vanilla townie?

- It'd be good to specify in the setup post that poisoner does not notify the target of having been poisoned. Same for rolestopper not giving any feedback, jailkeeper, etc. If any of those roles give feedback, please specify it in the setup post too.

[Dark Magician]

I completely agree with Voss here. Your setup is meant to have randomness at its core, which is alright, but as I said at the beginning of the thread, RNG is the enemy of balance. Of course, some compositions will be balanced in the end, but a significant amount of them will not be. That is why the setup can only be approved as Experimental: although it has good potential of being fun, it cannot be considered as a balanced setup, and players should have that in mind when they sign for the game. Note that this doesn't mean the setup is bad in any way. I'd love to play it, actually.


Indeed, there is a fair chance for RNG to be on either side, which is what we're looking for in this kind of setup. It will soon be ready for approval, but there are a few things that are still missing:

- Please specify what multitasking is in the setup post (expecting players to read the full thread might not be completely reasonable).

- The Double Voter slot could use some explainations about itself. Is the double voter revealed at the start of the game? Does "50 % Town" mean that it has 50 % chance to roll any town-aligned role, or only to roll vanilla townie?

- It'd be good to specify in the setup post that poisoner does not notify the target of having been poisoned. Same for rolestopper not giving any feedback, jailkeeper, etc. If any of those roles give feedback, please specify it in the setup post too.

Done

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Does "50 % Town" mean that it has 50 % chance to roll any town-aligned role, or only to roll vanilla townie?

Without wanting to be annoying, I have to say this wasn't clarified. Please do.

Other than that, the setup seems ready for approval.

[Dark Magician]

Without wanting to be annoying, I have to say this wasn't clarified. Please do.

Other than that, the setup seems ready for approval.

It should be obvious.
The Double Voter can be Town Aligned, Mafia Aligned or Survivor Aligned.
Double Voter is its ability.

[Dark Magician]

It just has more of a chance to be Town Aligned

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Double Voter is its ability.

Oh, ok. Sounds good.

Approved as Experimental. Do you want to be added to the Queue now?

[Dark Magician]

Oh, ok. Sounds good.

Approved as Experimental. Do you want to be added to the Queue now?

Yes Please! :3

[Dark Magician]

Hoping to get to host this soon.

[MartinGG99]

Hoping to get to host this soon.

We can probably do that after the on-going game, as there's nothing in the Queue. I manage the queue now, so we can arrange that.

I'll take a look at the setup sometime in the next 2-3 IRL days to make sure everything is OK about it (i.e. reasonably balanced or at least if its not that then its clear to players that it might not be perfectly balanced), if it seems fine enough to run I'll add it to the queue (or just simply give you the go-ahead to post signups if there is no longer a game running).


Edit: Reason why we sometimes take a look before one final go-ahead is because sometimes games were approved when we had lower standards years ago.

EDIT 2: There is short fuse mafia in the queue, but idk if Geyde will be up for running it after. We shall see.

[bakermir]

There are mod vibes all over it. It can be a fun nostalgic game for us old farts. I can also co-host it with someone from the staff if DM wants to play instead!

[Dark Magician]

I would like to host the first game.

[powerofdeath]

Fyi, 15 ppl is a large amount of players. You may get like 8-10 from this site, but you will prob need to do offsite advertising

[Dark Magician]

I can do that yeah.

[Dark Magician]

I feel balance wise I might not have mafia have that 10% chance of being 2 wolves and a traitor.

[Dark Magician]

Actually I’ll keep it but I’m changing the way it works.

[Dark Magician]

Alright.
For balance purposes I have now officially given Traitor dreaming god abilities to compensate for the major negative they had.

[Dark Magician]

Thanks to Multi for pointing it out,
Idk why it is 72 and not 48. I usually like to do 48 hour day phases anything longer is iffy.

[Dark Magician]

Multi doesn’t want to play though. they don’t like RNG setups.

[Dark Magician]

They said it’s too swingy

[Marshmallow Marshall]

It is indeed very swingy lol, and that will remain true no matter what unless the spirit of the setup is altered, which is not the goal.

One thing I realized, which is a major concern: what stops town from massclaiming? Most role slots have no overlap, and those that do have very little. Scum can be put in boxes on D1, which is infinitely more valuable than the knowledge given to scum.

Anti-claim mechanics (such as a scum factional ability to get a free kill on any hardclaimers in addition to the normal factional kill) could fix the issue. A softer option would be to add significant overlap to the role possibilities so that massclaim becomes less informative, but that would probably involve removing some roles (or making each slot have like 6 role possiblities lol).


Also, Detective lacks a rolecard lol. I assume it's just Tracker?

[Dark Magician]

Oh Detective Is:
Sample target player and compared them with the other.
“They do or they don’t share the same alignment.”

[MartinGG99]

Fyi, 15 ppl is a large amount of players. You may get like 8-10 from this site, but you will prob need to do offsite advertising

Re-emphasizing this.

One thing I realized, which is a major concern: what stops town from massclaiming? Most role slots have no overlap, and those that do have very little. Scum can be put in boxes on D1, which is infinitely more valuable than the knowledge given to scum.

Anti-claim mechanics (such as a scum factional ability to get a free kill on any hardclaimers in addition to the normal factional kill) could fix the issue. A softer option would be to add significant overlap to the role possibilities so that massclaim becomes less informative, but that would probably involve removing some roles (or making each slot have like 6 role possiblities lol).

I agree with the above conclusion. Mass-claiming is a big threat to this game in its current state. With enough work and thought you could box out the wolves/neutral and make their game quite difficult.

Bulletproof Survivor - You cannot be killed at night
Jester - If your lynched you may Choose to Venge Kill one player along with you
Amnesiac - Win the game with the Role you Became
Guardian Angel - Have your target Survive till end game and Win

All of these are on some level of bad to very bad due to their wincons and ability to be king-maker. These can be fun in the Arcade or in Town Of Salem where games are around an hour or less, but when it turns out a game you invested multiple hours of your life across weeks gets thrown because the jester/whoever sided with the other side, it does not feel good.

Principally speaking, neutrals should either have a wincon that serves their own interests solely or have a wincon that distinctly encourages play wherein no side is particularly favored. Otherwise there's significant risk of un-fun outcomes in certain situations.

You could potentially do that with the guardian angel, as an example. Like, say, give them an RNG'ed list of 4 people to protect which includes at least one mafia and one town, and remove their ability to auto-heal them. If by F7/F8 two of these people are still alive, you win and instantly leave the game (if you are still alive). This probably isn't a perfect idea, but I would argue its much better than saying guardian angel has to die protecting one person. It also probably makes Guardian Angel more fun to play and not as dependent on "oh please dear god DO NOT nk my target or lynch them". Reasons why this could potentially not be perfect though is because if its guaranteed to have at least 1 mafia then town will be desperate to get that information while Guardian Angle may not always be disincentivized to share that information.

Failure to post within 24 hours results in a Prod.
The second Failure to post within 24 hours results in a Replace Out.

In the time since this was originally first posted, staff have become more strict in enforcing that each game have a minimum requirement of 5 posts per day phase. Since this does not ensure that, its possible for people to post under 5 times per day phase. Please address that however you wish. It could be 10 posts per day phase, or 5 post per day phase, or expect them to make 2 posts in the first 24 hours and then 3 in the second 24 hours. I don't particularly care so long as the rules ensure that if someone posts 4 times or less in a day phase, they're either warned and/or replaced. Personally, and this opinion may not represent all of staff, modkills could also be considered if there are no replacements to be found.

Edit 1: Setup does not seem to specify how the elimination is handled. If it goes by majority, then keep in mind that the 5-post rule may be lenient on that depending on when the hammer occurred. In other words, it can be up to host discretion a bit.


This was on a first pass of the setup, so I've not checked everything. But these are some things for now.

[Dark Magician]

Wolves can still easily win from mass claim if they strategize in wolf chat.

However with further relook.
3 Cops being claim available is good, they’re actually being able to BE 3 Cops isn’t.
I might switch Cop with Watcher or do some adjustments there.

I’ll be changing up some Neuts.
I’m thinking of turning Jester into Fool, thoughts on that?

[Dark Magician]

So other then doing some changes for the town percentages, like swapping Cop with maybe a Track/Watch (something not as powerful)
I’ve got ideas for Neutral changes
Like changing Jester to Fool.
Amnesiac to Double (Double is a 1-Shot Vig that takes the role of the player they killed and they player they killed becomes cleaned.)

[Dark Magician]

Not sure what I’m going to do for GA and Surv.

But looking back I might want to not have that BP Surv.

[Dark Magician]

I still however standby Mafia can win against mass claiming.

[Dark Magician]

Like mafia have access to Roleblocker and/or Redirector.

[Dark Magician]

There is also Tailor that can make town appear as Mafia.

[MartinGG99]

Maybe this low-level analysis will better communicate how powerful a mass-claim is:

Edit: To be clear, this analysis is not perfect and does not cover every single dynamic (ex: Tailor) nor does it go as far in probabilistic math as much as it theoretically could. To me, this analysis is enough to warrant significant concern unless the non-town have a consistent and reliable mechanic for dealing with it, such as a soup kill.

Town 1 - Joat / Dream (always unique)
Town 2 - Gun Deal / Vig / Poison / Arson (always unique)
Town 3 - Huntsman / Baby / Doc / Detective / Assassin (70% is unique)
Town 4 - JK / Cop / Rolestop / Doc (50% is unique)
Town 5 - Lie / Detective / Busdriver / Redirector / Durable (70% is unique)
Town 6 - Tracker / Watcher / Vanilla / Cop (70% is unique)
Town 7 - Vanilla / Detective / Bulletproof (30% is unique)
Town 8 - Vanilla / Treestump / Restless / Vengeful (50% is unique)
Town 9 - Vanilla / Durable / Hated (10% is unique)
Town 10 - Vanilla / Miller (50% is unique)

Roles that are Salmon are ones unique to that slot as far as town is concerned in mass claiming. Roles underlined are roles that unique to two slots. Roles that are violet are roles that cover at least three slots or more.

Out of all of these,
Only three roles are underlined: Cop, Doctor, and Durable Townie.
Only two roles are violet: Vanilla Town and Detective.

As a result, and this is just after surface-level analysis not accounting for the actual % chance that said roles exist, any fake-claim of roles outside of Cop/Doctor/Durable/Vanilla/Detective are liable to be instantly thrown into a counter-claim Thunderdome/box. If after a mass-claim no counter-claims exist, then every slot which has a salmon role is prone to be instantly and mechanically cleared as town depending on the claims, and that chance of being cleared of town is higher the more likely it is that their slot is unique.

What's worse is that there is no slot that has a zero percent chance of rolling a unique role. To get a better sense of how bad that is: The average chance of rolling a unique role, (not including Town 1 and Town 2, as they're guarantee) is 50% so on average we'll be seeing around 6 confirmed towns (now including Town 1 and Town 2) unless they're all counter-claimed into a thunder-dome/box. Assuming no counter-claim boxes, then the town players only have to solve (again, on average) from 8-9 other players instead of 14 and there'll be on average (assuming non-town double-voter) a 55% of RNG voting out a non-town in that group. Additionally in principle there is very much a possibility, though very low possibility, that every single town slot rands its unique role, which would in a mass-claim force every non-town to either instantly out or be thrown into a counter-claim box with only one town in it. If they eliminate the unique town in that scenario, then every non-town in that box is outed and if they eliminate the mafia then they just continue on with the remaining people in that box (if any) and then go on to the next box.

To put it simply: Confirmed towns from a mass-claim are almost unavoidable and if the non-towns try to contest it by claiming unique roles they'll potentially be thrown into boxes where it is known that only one town exists in each of said boxes.

[Dark Magician]

You aren’t even looking at mafia roles?

[Dark Magician]

It also doesn’t really matter if someone is unique. Unless everyone gets a unique role it doesn’t hurt mafia.

Like sure I can see there should be one or two that have all repeats.
But the main point is mafia doesn’t struggle to some unique.


Like
Tailor, Redirector, Brute, JOAT, Actress, Traitor
They all have the potential to change the outcome.

Like it’s not that hard for mafia to win that.

But yeah I’ll try and make some less unique options.

[Dark Magician]

It should now be less unique.