S-FM 342: A Small Game

[Lumi]

There has been renewed interest in the mini-queue!

If we were to host a small FM game alongside main-queue games, would you be interested in playing?

Vote for what setup you would play! If you have no preference, then vote for all the options since we will also be using the poll results to gauge if there is enough interest to justify running a second game alongside a main-queue game!

Treat a vote for a given option almost the same as signing for the game! If we get enough votes for an option we'll reach out to all voters to schedule that game!

Setups:
Black Flag Nightless (10 Players)
7 town, 3 mafia. No nights (and so no night kills). No Power roles. Town loses if they are reduced to 3 players. Mafia loses if they are reduced to 1 player.

Cop 9-er (9 Players)
There's an alignment cop (aka a sheriff), two vanilla mafia (mafiosos), and 6 vanilla town

S-FM Warcraft (8 Players)
A simple setup with some basic, randomized power roles for town (vig, doc, roleblocker) and a 1-shot Witch action for the wolves.

Which Witch is Which? (7 Players)
A setup with many different possible power roles for both factions. It's neat.

6 Player Nightless (6 Players)
There are 2 mafia, 3 vanilla town, 1 named town. No nights.

[theoneceko]

omg ty for linking the setups.

i signed up for everything except bfl

[NotPaopan]

I accidentally signed all and I cannot reverse it
How is that possible!?

[Lumi]

I accidentally signed all and I cannot reverse it
How is that possible!?

I don't think it's possible for users without special permissions to unvote.

Which sign-ups do you want to sign for?

[Guillo]

I would be interested in small games but none of those set ups are appealing to me.

[OzyWho]

[votes for support vote mafia ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]
/jk
In actuality I vote for none atm
Maybe later

[theoneceko]

3E590A98-15BE-4F86-BC95-889976F3E5A3.jpeg

…….

[Lumi]

I would be interested in small games but none of those set ups are appealing to me.

The list is by no means final! If there's a small (less than 10 players, maaaybe 10 players) setup that you're fond of, I can add it to the list!

[NotPaopan]

I don't think it's possible for users without special permissions to unvote.

Which sign-ups do you want to sign for?

It was a joke

[Stealthbomber16]

I already have a 10p in the queue.

[theoneceko]

I already have a 10p in the queue.

which is?

[OzyWho]

which is?

American Flag Nightless (10P)
Pretty good, for it has day kills. We all like day kills don't we?

[OzyWho]

/in for American Nightless
/Petition to rename American Flag Nightless to American Nightless, for it has no Flag win con. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Lumi]

I already have a 10p in the queue.

That setup looks like a lot of fun, I'm hyped to play it. Last I checked with MM the official status was that you needed more time before hosting it again? If you have the availability to host it we can move it up in the queue. Messaged you on Discord to coordinate

[Guillo]

I cant do nightless, my work schedule makes it impossible for me, unless day phases were longer. 4-5 days long?

[Guillo]

How about this one. This looks interesting.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Shortnight

[Guillo]

Or this one. Althought it should be Everyone’s tracked not watch but whatever

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php..._Being_Watched

[OzyWho]

Or this one. Althought it should be Everyone’s tracked not watch but whatever

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php..._Being_Watched

In a scenario where D1 is a Vanilla lynch (5 out of 9 probability), the Mafia would likely never target a Kill because the Global Tracker is obligated to use their ability N1 and find the killer if they do. If I understand it correctly.
Most games would have D2 start with a PoE of 3, in which 2 are Mafia players.
7v2 Town can always afford 2 mislynches.

The way I see the setup, it's balance is absolutely atrocious. I might be missing something though because of the 2 games played, Mafia won 1.

How about this one. This looks interesting.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Shortnight

I like it. There's just 1 problem for me there.
So, these are the possible scenarios, right?
Correct me if I counted wrong:
1 out of 19 town to win before F3.
8 out of 19 wolves to win before F3.
10 out of 19 get to F3.
What I don't like is that in those 10 out of 19 times, one of the 3 players in the F3 is confirmed, meaning the other 2 players always vote one another while the confirmed player can't see the previous group chat of those 2.
Maybe it's my personal bias that I can't focus on a game after I know where my vote goes, but that F3 doesn't sound very interesting to me.

[OzyWho]

Shortnight sounds minigame thematic and fun tbh. I like it more than I probably made it sound in my previous post.

[Lumi]

Or this one. Althought it should be Everyone’s tracked not watch but whatever

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php..._Being_Watched

Tracking everyone and watching everyone are technically the same thing

In a scenario where D1 is a Vanilla lynch (5 out of 9 probability), the Mafia would likely never target a Kill because the Global Tracker is obligated to use their ability N1 and find the killer if they do. If I understand it correctly.
Most games would have D2 start with a PoE of 3, in which 2 are Mafia players.
7v2 Town can always afford 2 mislynches.

The way I see the setup, it's balance is absolutely atrocious. I might be missing something though because of the 2 games played, Mafia won 1.

I believe mafia have the option to holster their night kill to avoid being instantly outed, but the setup still feels rather town-sided.

Using the assumptions that are used in the EV Project, town wins this setup 44.74% of the time.

The problem with EV Project expected winrates is that they treat day eliminations as purely random. Another way to read that is the rate at which town will win when they completely turn off their brain and just vote randomly. AKA town should pretty much always win at least as often as the EV Project winrate.

For reference setups used in MU champs typically have 25-35% expected winrate if you treat power roles as just named town and town eliminates randomly. After factoring in power roles the EV Project winrate is more in the 30-40% range
The "balanced" 11v2 mountainous setup has a 39.49% EV Project winrate.

This setup being at 44.74% definitely makes it numerically town-sided, doubly so since IMO the town's power roles tilt the balance more in town's favor than mafia's favor.

[OzyWho]

I believe mafia have the option to holster their night kill to avoid being instantly outed, but the setup still feels rather town-sided.

That's what I said. Hence Day2 PoE being 3 people not 1.

Using the assumptions that are used in the EV Project, town wins this setup 44.74% of the time.

The problem with EV Project expected winrates is that they treat day eliminations as purely random. Another way to read that is the rate at which town will win when they completely turn off their brain and just vote randomly. AKA town should pretty much always win at least as often as the EV Project winrate.

For reference setups used in MU champs typically have 25-35% expected winrate if you treat power roles as just named town and town eliminates randomly. After factoring in power roles the EV Project winrate is more in the 30-40% range
The "balanced" 11v2 mountainous setup has a 39.49% EV Project winrate.

This setup being at 44.74% definitely makes it numerically town-sided, doubly so since IMO the town's power roles tilt the balance more in town's favor than mafia's favor.

I don't know anything about what, if anything, is written in the EV project about this setup.
But the way I see it Town has a 100% win rate after a Day1 Vanilla mislynch. I suppose Mafia have no choice but to YOLO and try to block or kill the Watcher N1, so they're not guaranteed to lose.

[Lumi]

That's what I said. Hence Day2 PoE being 3 people not 1.



I don't know anything about what, if anything, is written in the EV project about this setup.
But the way I see it Town has a 100% win rate after a Day1 Vanilla mislynch. I suppose Mafia have no choice but to YOLO and try to block or kill the Watcher N1, so they're not guaranteed to lose.

The global watcher action is one-shot, town will never have a 100% win-rate because the watcher will only ever be able to out one of the two mafia.

[Guillo]

In a scenario where D1 is a Vanilla lynch (5 out of 9 probability), the Mafia would likely never target a Kill because the Global Tracker is obligated to use their ability N1 and find the killer if they do. If I understand it correctly.
Most games would have D2 start with a PoE of 3, in which 2 are Mafia players.
7v2 Town can always afford 2 mislynches.

The way I see the setup, it's balance is absolutely atrocious. I might be missing something though because of the 2 games played, Mafia won 1.






I like it. There's just 1 problem for me there.
So, these are the possible scenarios, right?
Correct me if I counted wrong:
1 out of 19 town to win before F3.
8 out of 19 wolves to win before F3.
10 out of 19 get to F3.
What I don't like is that in those 10 out of 19 times, one of the 3 players in the F3 is confirmed, meaning the other 2 players always vote one another while the confirmed player can't see the previous group chat of those 2.
Maybe it's my personal bias that I can't focus on a game after I know where my vote goes, but that F3 doesn't sound very interesting to me.

Short night is a six players set up

[Guillo]

Never mind.
What im into are unique experimental set ups but they gotta have a night phase or im doomed if i rand scum. Personally

[Lumi]

Never mind.
What im into are unique experimental set ups but they gotta have a night phase or im doomed if i rand scum. Personally

The Which Witch is Witch setup is very non-standard

[Stealthbomber16]

Which Witch being considered a good setup baffles me. That setup is garbage.

[Stealthbomber16]

Never mind.
What im into are unique experimental set ups but they gotta have a night phase or im doomed if i rand scum. Personally

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...der-(10P)-(lol)

This has a night phase :trollface:

[OzyWho]

The global watcher action is one-shot, town will never have a 100% win-rate because the watcher will only ever be able to out one of the two mafia.

Global watcher sees everyone who visits, that's what it says in the role card: "You will get back results of where everyone goes that night".
Everyone is forced to visit who are able, that's what it says in mechanics: "Everyone must choose to visit someone at night if they aren't using a role or they will visit someone randomly".

I fail to see how D2 the watcher doesn't have both Mafia in his PoE, unless blocked or dead. They both powers, they both have to use their powers, global watcher sees everyone's targets.

[OzyWho]

Technically this is 10 slots game too :
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...Souls-(10-20P)
Anyone remembers its balance n stuff how it went?

[Auwt]

Just to make sure, what is the vote system for the setup whose name is "Which Witch is Which?"
@Stealthbomber16

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Just to make sure, what is the vote system for the setup whose name is "Which Witch is Which?"
@Stealthbomber16

^ would be nice to specify in the setup page itself. Also, it seems we have reached 7 votes for the setup ^^

[Guillo]

Global watcher sees everyone who visits, that's what it says in the role card: "You will get back results of where everyone goes that night".
Everyone is forced to visit who are able, that's what it says in mechanics: "Everyone must choose to visit someone at night if they aren't using a role or they will visit someone randomly".

I fail to see how D2 the watcher doesn't have both Mafia in his PoE, unless blocked or dead. They both powers, they both have to use their powers, global watcher sees everyone's targets.

What if several people visit the same target that gets killed. With a player list that small town will mot have enough chops to go through the PoE

[OzyWho]

What if several people visit the same target that gets killed. With a player list that small town will mot have enough chops to go through the PoE

Ahhh I completely missed that VTs also visit. So that's what I was missing.

[Stealthbomber16]

Just to make sure, what is the vote system for the setup whose name is "Which Witch is Which?"
@Stealthbomber16

Hosts choice. Default plurality majority.

[Lumi]

Global watcher sees everyone who visits, that's what it says in the role card: "You will get back results of where everyone goes that night".
Everyone is forced to visit who are able, that's what it says in mechanics: "Everyone must choose to visit someone at night if they aren't using a role or they will visit someone randomly".

I fail to see how D2 the watcher doesn't have both Mafia in his PoE, unless blocked or dead. They both powers, they both have to use their powers, global watcher sees everyone's targets.

Vanilla town have a visit action too, everyone is visiting

[Lumi]

I have temporarily moved the sign-ups thread here as there are a number of games in the queue ahead of this one. There has definitely been enough interest in these mini-queue games though, so we will be reopening the miniqueue!

[Lumi]

A look ahead at planned games in the queue!

Main Queue
S-FM 339: ?KRC hosted by Yours Truly
- Starts: February 17th
S-FM 340: Election Day hosted by deathworlds
- Sign-ups Open: Soon!
- Estimated Start: Early-Mid March
Cross Community Game hosted by [MartinGG99, Stealthbomber16, Hawkataine, Dolby - pairings TBA] on MafiaCafe
- Estimated Start: Early April
S-FM 343: Cross Community Game hosted by [MartinGG99, Stealthbomber16, Hawkataine, Dolby - pairings TBA] on SC2Mafia
- Estimated Start: Late April

Mini Queue
S-FM 341: American Flag Nightless hosted by Stealthbomber16
- Sign-ups Open: Before the end of ?KRC
- Estimated Start: Early-Mid March
S-FM 342: A Small Game - host position available!
- Sign-ups Open: As soon as S-FM 341 fills!
- Estimated Start: Late March

[OzyWho]

/Petition to rename American Flag Nightless to American Nightless, for it has no Flag win con.

Good idea, Ozy.

-vote Upvote

[Lumi]

Good idea, Ozy.

-vote Upvote

Removing the "Flag" from the title makes it less of a joke on Black/White Flag Nightless though

IMO the titular joke is more important than whether or not it technically has a flag wincon ;P