MafiaUniverse replaced the word ‘lynch’ with eliminate

[DJarJar]

I'm choosing to express the things I've created in the way I want to, insofar as it doesn't harm others experience. Isn't trying to have authority over others' expression the type of free speech suppression everyone is complaining about?

that was what i was getting at with my posts. That the coder is potentially liable for any issues with his code, so if anybody should have rights regarding changing the language, it's him.

[DJarJar]

that was what i was getting at with my posts. That the coder is potentially liable for any issues with his code, so if anybody should have rights regarding changing the language, it's him.

and that extends further to anybody who actually has the ability to change the code, which includes myself and voss at the moment.

[Voss]

And the reason why it matters now more than it did last week, or last year is because this thread was brought up. Now it's willingly keeping the word. Ignorance can't be feigned now.

(Although I'd admit it's a little bit of mental gymnastics to not take care of the noose emoji since it was brought up).

[secondpassing]

I'm choosing to express the things I've created in the way I want to, insofar as it doesn't harm others experience. Isn't trying to have authority over others' expression the type of free speech suppression everyone is complaining about?

Yeah, because now it feels like I didn't really have a say in the matter, you know? Kind of like a sigh of relief that I don't have to be held responsible about any sort of free speech debate's outcome. So if someone asks me, "Hey why doesn't this say lynch?" I can just reply that, "The mods of the site discussed it. It was for being inclusive to more people. I don't think we need to be so PC but whatever, it also has its good things."

Sort of a different feeling as if this was a democracy vs me just using this site as a user. Not sure if that explained it well.

[Exeter350]

The issue is that the people who feel strongly about such a change are myself, MM, Exeter, and presumably such people as Distorted, Ceko, blinkskater - and that’s just on our tiny website. Who are the people in favour if changing lynch?

To clarify my stance,

I understand where Voss is coming from:
(1) The word 'lynch' may have different connotations in the US
(2) It was MU's decision to be more inclusive
(3) MU did not ban the word 'lynch', understanding that theirs is a global community and such issues may not be relevant to the whole community
(4) People who leave over a word being replaced = People who leave over a word being used

I also agree that it is not difficult for the developer to implement the change, or the playerbase to follow it.

I disagree with the Amrock anecdote because 'lynch' is not a racial slur.
The degree of the problem is different in that context which caused that player to leave.

My two main concerns are:
(1) Where do we draw the line?
(2) Why was this change necessary in the first place?

Should MU replace the whole "Mafia" concept out of respect to families of gang violence victims?
You know, stories of gangs hanging headless corpses in public in South America or some shit.

How about replacing the Serial Killer / Mass Murderer roles out of respect to families of homicide victims?
You know, stories of people being kidnapped and carved up in somebody's basement.

Those are pretty gruesome issues too, why isn't MU doing anything about it?

Is it just a matter of how many people are making a fuss and threatening to leave?

If somebody on MU petitioned to ban Islam / China-related jokes (e.g. Haram, stoning, burqas, Winnie the Pooh, bat soup, "Coronavirus is China's fault" etc), will MU make any changes?

Or does that not suit their narrative or political focus?

It seems to me that this is:
(1) A pragmatic move to retain the playerbase they have (virtue signalling, pandering, etc)
(2) Highly dependent on the staff's personal political views

Both of which are an issue to me.

(1) Because it just means that if people whine enough, they can get their way
We should not be encouraging outrage culture

(2) Don't drag politics into everything to "make a stand"
Especially when their political views are limited in scope and don't cover the entire globe.

E.g. Ongoing issues in Latin America (gang violence), Middle East (women's rights), China (SCS fishing rights, coronavirus diplomacy, etc), Russia (Putin protests), issues in less well-known countries, etc.

As they say, theirs is a global community.

If they're going to take a stance on American politics, better make sure they cover the rest of the world too or don't open that can of worms altogether.

It passes off as being inconsistent, self-centered and hypocritical.

And if somehow MU were able to account for all ongoing political issues in the world, I suspect the end result is that people pretty much can't talk about a vast range of topics which may be distantly related to ongoing political issues. In such a situation, good luck trying to breathe without offending somebody.

Which is why such changes should not be encouraged.

But of course, it is their authority & decision how they want to manage their communities.
I think it's dumb double standards, but whatever floats their boat.

I find it incredibly awkward that the word "Lynching" is being defended so vehemently as though it has no ties to the killings of hundreds of African-Americans. The context that we use it for here is the niche context. It is definitely not standard.

If the meaning has always been there, why is it only an issue now?

[deathworlds]

And the reason why it matters now more than it did last week, or last year is because this thread was brought up. Now it's willingly keeping the word. Ignorance can't be feigned now.

(Although I'd admit it's a little bit of mental gymnastics to not take care of the noose emoji since it was brought up).

Well I got rid of it on the discord, I don't got perms for anything on the siteside of things
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[rumox]

To clarify my stance,

I understand where Voss is coming from:
(1) The word 'lynch' may have different connotations in the US
(2) It was MU's decision to be more inclusive
(3) MU did not ban the word 'lynch', understanding that theirs is a global community and such issues may not be relevant to the whole community
(4) People who leave over a word being replaced = People who leave over a word being used

I also agree that it is not difficult for the developer to implement the change, or the playerbase to follow it.

I disagree with the Amrock anecdote because 'lynch' is not a racial slur.
The degree of the problem is different in that context which caused that player to leave.

My two main concerns are:
(1) Where do we draw the line?
(2) Why was this change necessary in the first place?

Should MU replace the whole "Mafia" concept out of respect to families of gang violence victims?
You know, stories of gangs hanging headless corpses in public in South America or some shit.

How about replacing the Serial Killer / Mass Murderer roles out of respect to families of homicide victims?
You know, stories of people being kidnapped and carved up in somebody's basement.

Those are pretty gruesome issues too, why isn't MU doing anything about it?

Is it just a matter of how many people are making a fuss and threatening to leave?

If somebody on MU petitioned to ban Islam / China-related jokes (e.g. Haram, stoning, burqas, Winnie the Pooh, bat soup, "Coronavirus is China's fault" etc), will MU make any changes?

Or does that not suit their narrative or political focus?

It seems to me that this is:
(1) A pragmatic move to retain the playerbase they have (virtue signalling, pandering, etc)
(2) Highly dependent on the staff's personal political views

Both of which are an issue to me.

(1) Because it just means that if people whine enough, they can get their way
We should not be encouraging outrage culture

(2) Don't drag politics into everything to "make a stand"
Especially when their political views are limited in scope and don't cover the entire globe.

E.g. Ongoing issues in Latin America (gang violence), Middle East (women's rights), China (SCS fishing rights, coronavirus diplomacy, etc), Russia (Putin protests), issues in less well-known countries, etc.

As they say, theirs is a global community.

If they're going to take a stance on American politics, better make sure they cover the rest of the world too or don't open that can of worms altogether.

It passes off as being inconsistent, self-centered and hypocritical.

And if somehow MU were able to account for all ongoing political issues in the world, I suspect the end result is that people pretty much can't talk about a vast range of topics which may be distantly related to ongoing political issues. In such a situation, good luck trying to breathe without offending somebody.

Which is why such changes should not be encouraged.

But of course, it is their authority & decision how they want to manage their communities.
I think it's dumb double standards, but whatever floats their boat.




If the meaning has always been there, why is it only an issue now?

This post has been edited 19 times

Is it really virtue signaling? To me virtue signaling is someone who is bragging about being superior due to their outstanding moral opinion. I don't see changing a word only a bot says as virtue signaling, let alone bragging about being superior. If they outright banned the word, then yes then maybe it is worth discussing if it's virtue signaling. I also don't think politics necessarily has to come into question if someone has made a choice to be more inclusive, since when is being accommodating solely a political act?

[rumox]

If this happened in a public medium then yes it is a cause for concern, but I doubt a government would decide to replace the word 'lynch' with something else lol. A private entity is free to do whatever they want because you are free to go elsewhere. I recognize this while being rather alarmed at what Twitter and Facebook have been doing in regards to speech policing. A niche, small website changing the word 'lynch' to 'eliminate' only for their modbot is hardly a topic worth getting in arms about.

[DJarJar]

To clarify my stance,

I understand where Voss is coming from:
(1) The word 'lynch' may have different connotations in the US
(2) It was MU's decision to be more inclusive
(3) MU did not ban the word 'lynch', understanding that theirs is a global community and such issues may not be relevant to the whole community
(4) People who leave over a word being replaced = People who leave over a word being used

I also agree that it is not difficult for the developer to implement the change, or the playerbase to follow it.

I disagree with the Amrock anecdote because 'lynch' is not a racial slur.
The degree of the problem is different in that context which caused that player to leave.

My two main concerns are:
(1) Where do we draw the line?
(2) Why was this change necessary in the first place?

Should MU replace the whole "Mafia" concept out of respect to families of gang violence victims?
You know, stories of gangs hanging headless corpses in public in South America or some shit.

How about replacing the Serial Killer / Mass Murderer roles out of respect to families of homicide victims?
You know, stories of people being kidnapped and carved up in somebody's basement.

Those are pretty gruesome issues too, why isn't MU doing anything about it?

Is it just a matter of how many people are making a fuss and threatening to leave?

If somebody on MU petitioned to ban Islam / China-related jokes (e.g. Haram, stoning, burqas, Winnie the Pooh, bat soup, "Coronavirus is China's fault" etc), will MU make any changes?

Or does that not suit their narrative or political focus?

It seems to me that this is:
(1) A pragmatic move to retain the playerbase they have (virtue signalling, pandering, etc)
(2) Highly dependent on the staff's personal political views

Both of which are an issue to me.

(1) Because it just means that if people whine enough, they can get their way
We should not be encouraging outrage culture

(2) Don't drag politics into everything to "make a stand"
Especially when their political views are limited in scope and don't cover the entire globe.

E.g. Ongoing issues in Latin America (gang violence), Middle East (women's rights), China (SCS fishing rights, coronavirus diplomacy, etc), Russia (Putin protests), issues in less well-known countries, etc.

As they say, theirs is a global community.

If they're going to take a stance on American politics, better make sure they cover the rest of the world too or don't open that can of worms altogether.

It passes off as being inconsistent, self-centered and hypocritical.

And if somehow MU were able to account for all ongoing political issues in the world, I suspect the end result is that people pretty much can't talk about a vast range of topics which may be distantly related to ongoing political issues. In such a situation, good luck trying to breathe without offending somebody.

Which is why such changes should not be encouraged.

But of course, it is their authority & decision how they want to manage their communities.
I think it's dumb double standards, but whatever floats their boat.




If the meaning has always been there, why is it only an issue now?

The fifteenth amendment (blacks allowed to vote) was 1870.

The nineteenth amendment (women allowed to vote) was 1920.

That’s 50 years apart.


As eloquent as it was, I think your argument is ridiculous for trying to imply that you should either change everything all at once or nothing ever.

[DJarJar]

As ridiculous as you seem to find it, yes, changes do generally happen when people get loud about a certain issue. That’s kind of the way the world works

[Exeter350]

This post has been edited 19 times

LOL habit of a lifetime of frequently saving my work.

I also don't think politics necessarily has to come into question if someone has made a choice to be more inclusive, since when is being accommodating solely a political act?

Because the decision to be inclusive or not stems from political issues.
If there is no issue, there is no need to take a stance.

My problem is that such stances are usually limited in scope.

Black lives matter, what about Chinese lives?

As a Chinese, can I be offended at all the ongoing coronavirus jokes and comments?
E.g. Kung flu, bat soup, "don't let China cover up their mistake", etc?

Such anti-Chinese sentiments has led to discrimination across the globe, e.g. violence in US (the naturalised American-Chinese family who got slashed up with a machete in a supermarket, including their young child), racism in rural Australia, some parts of Europe, etc.

To these people, that China is responsible for the coronavirus is a fact.
Therefore all these anti-Chinese discrimination is only natural and acceptable, and people should not be covering up China's fault.

But please remember that while Western narratives paint China as the antagonist, Chinese media will (obviously) be arguing otherwise.

My point is:
Why are we talking so much BLM and ignoring all the coronavirus anti-Chinese discrimination going around?
Is MU banning talk about coronavirus and China?
Can the word ch!nk be treated with the same severity as the N bomb?

No. Because it is not relevant to their community and it does not reflect their political stance.

If this happened in a public medium then yes it is a cause for concern, but I doubt a government would decide to replace the word 'lynch' with something else lol. A private entity is free to do whatever they want because you are free to go elsewhere. I recognize this while being rather alarmed at what Twitter and Facebook have been doing in regards to speech policing. A niche, small website changing the word 'lynch' to 'eliminate' only for their modbot is hardly a topic worth getting in arms about.

Many words are already banned on most mediums for being racist slurs, e.g. the N bomb.

This could be a step in that direction.
i.e. If alarmists keep attaching new meanings to existing terms, and we keep censoring more words.

[rumox]

I really do not think a modbot on MU not using the word 'lynch' is worthy of being deemed a political issue lol. And tbh if trying to bring more people to the table is seen as an issue, and in the context of MU, one that doesn't even infringe on you personally (unless you consider reading something you do not like an infringement) then I honestly I think you are a bit of a turd burglar.

[Exeter350]

I really do not think a modbot on MU not using the word 'lynch' is worthy of being deemed a political issue lol. And tbh if trying to bring more people to the table is seen as an issue, and in the context of MU, one that doesn't even infringe on you personally (unless you consider reading something you do not like an infringement) then I honestly I think you are a bit of a turd burglar.

The "racist" connotations of the word "lynch" wouldn't even be called into question if not for recent events in the US.

Like I said, I understand that they're trying to bring more people to the table / be more inclusive, but where do they draw the line?

Do they give in to every demand for change?

Do they implement BLM changes today, then no anti-Chinese sentiments tomorrow, then no Islamophobia the week after?
Or do they just cherry pick their agenda, like "racism is bad if it's only against POC, but if it's Chinese people then nobody cares"?

I think this is a good discussion to understand our own community's stance on this.
By extrapolating MU's actions, we can also see where we stand on the same issue.

[rumox]

As far as I can tell people here either don't want it changed or want to change it to something funny. I personally don't have an issue with it and I don't think anyone here does.

As for where the line is drawn, it's technically never hard drawn. It's an evolving process that takes time. Website owners are free to speed up or slow it down at their discretion and to whatever degree they want it to be

[oops_ur_dead]

Yeah, because now it feels like I didn't really have a say in the matter, you know? Kind of like a sigh of relief that I don't have to be held responsible about any sort of free speech debate's outcome. So if someone asks me, "Hey why doesn't this say lynch?" I can just reply that, "The mods of the site discussed it. It was for being inclusive to more people. I don't think we need to be so PC but whatever, it also has its good things."

Sort of a different feeling as if this was a democracy vs me just using this site as a user. Not sure if that explained it well.

I'm not really understanding your argument. Are you saying people's speech should be subject to a democracy?

Maybe I misinterpreted your original post since it sounded like you were being sarcastic, my bad if that's the case.

[rumox]

secondpassing is neutral/soft leaning don't change on the matter. he doesn't really care and is just glad that someone else has made the decision for him so he can separate himself from it

i think

[rumox]

I personally don't have an issue with it and I don't think anyone here does.

In regards to using the word lynch, the people who want to change it to something funny wanna do it for the lols not that they have a problem with it

[oops_ur_dead]

secondpassing is neutral/soft leaning don't change on the matter. he doesn't really care and is just glad that someone else has made the decision for him so he can separate himself from it

i think

Hey I'll be honest I was pretty neutral until I saw that one of the MU propositions was yeeted and I thought it was hilarious lmao.

Tho changing it back would be an active decision to change it to "lynched" which doesn't particularly jive with me, why I suggested the idea of changing the word based on what MVP wants.

[rumox]

Pretty good way to serperate yourself from it

I do like it being a reward idea tho. Would be great to see what verbs people come up with

[Exeter350]

The fifteenth amendment (blacks allowed to vote) was 1870.

The nineteenth amendment (women allowed to vote) was 1920.

That’s 50 years apart.


As eloquent as it was, I think your argument is ridiculous for trying to imply that you should either change everything all at once or nothing ever.

As ridiculous as you seem to find it, yes, changes do generally happen when people get loud about a certain issue. That’s kind of the way the world works

As for where the line is drawn, it's technically never hard drawn. It's an evolving process that takes time. Website owners are free to speed up or slow it down at their discretion and to whatever degree they want it to be

Agreed with the big picture view.

Sorry, I think I understand now.

Yeah some people are uncomfortable with the term, so they changed it to be more inclusive.

As simple as that. Yeah agreed.

[rumox]

Only 3 edits this time

Don't get me wrong I think it's kind of fucky to try and tackle. Like you or someone else said, the intention is good but the execution isn't. Just because the bot doesn't say lynch anymore doesn't mean people who are uncomfortable with the word are not going to be exposed to it anymore - I doubt people will stop using the word themselves. It's going to take literally cultivating a new culture where either people just straight up stop using the word in the game or are quick to sincerely apologize to the person that gets upset and then use a different word.

I really have a tough time imagining someone being upset by the word lynch, but hey I'm not black nor have I faced any struggles in regards to the stigma surrounding it. I wont stand here and say that it isn't a controversial word, only that from my perspective it has never meant to me what it may mean to others. This is basically why I do not care what happens to the word. It has no meaning to me in a game of Mafia, I can understand how it may make others uncomfortable, and there are thousands of other verbs out there that could take its place which can be tapped into for some cheap laughs and a mini-reward.

[yzb25]

I don't think anyone who struggles with the word lynch could handle mafia on this site tbh, and probably any site for that matter lmao.

[yzb25]

People I've known who got uncomfortable from such a word were the same people who would jump and try to hide their offense behind an awkward smile after any sort of light jab. Or would furrow their brows when they needed to swear xD.

[rumox]

I actually read the thread on MU beyond OP and lol... Makaze wants people who use the word lynch/lynched to be ridiculed into conformity if I read post #232 correctly?

[yzb25]

The vibe I get from MU is they're effectively going to make it into a social taboo, which is very narcissistic indeed.

Complaining about neglecting minorities while forcing a particular cultural view on everyone else. How very American :P

[rumox]

How very turd burglar of them

[BananaCucho]

GOOFY!

[Voss]

real talk, it's not a good idea to decide "our new word" based off a game, as fun an idea as that sounds on the surface.

[SuperJack]

The vibe I get from MU is they're effectively going to make it into a social taboo, which is very narcissistic indeed.

Complaining about neglecting minorities while forcing a particular cultural view on everyone else. How very American :P

*highfive*

[Sylvanas]

Don't get me wrong I think it's kind of fucky to try and tackle. Like you or someone else said, the intention is good but the execution isn't. Just because the bot doesn't say lynch anymore doesn't mean people who are uncomfortable with the word are not going to be exposed to it anymore - I doubt people will stop using the word themselves. It's going to take literally cultivating a new culture where either people just straight up stop using the word in the game or are quick to sincerely apologize to the person that gets upset and then use a different word.

Or better even, nothing. Maybe the people who are allegedly so deeply "uncomfortable" with a word with a debatable, vaguely racial connotation would be best served that way. No, you can't hide away from a word, not even duh enn word/IRL Voldemort. The word "lynch" isn't only socially acceptable (as long as you're not using it to threaten people), it's the one and only appropriate word in context. People aren't just "eliminated" or killed in mafia, they are executed via a majority extrajudicial judgement. It's literally what lynching is, and Mafia pretty much entirely revolves around it. If calling a cat a cat offends you, your problem is with reality and reality won't just go away.

Mind you, I'm an outsider, I don't know mafiauniverse and I don't really care about that change or think it matters much, but I think it's unjustified and an opportunistic PR move in the vein of Ben/Jemima. They're literally reaching for an excuse to rectify something that could be perceived as anti-black racism because it's what people do these days. I don't think the person that filed the complaint really felt uncomfortable, and I also don't think those who responded to it truly care, but I guess they all got what they wanted, so good for them I guess?

[secondpassing]

I'm not really understanding your argument. Are you saying people's speech should be subject to a democracy?

Maybe I misinterpreted your original post since it sounded like you were being sarcastic, my bad if that's the case.

Well no, you made it clear that this site is not a democracy and that I am not responsible for the word choice this site wants to use. <- all I was trying to say
I love it when people have the humility to apologize so.. *thumbs up* No sarcasm.

secondpassing is neutral/soft leaning don't change on the matter. he doesn't really care and is just glad that someone else has made the decision for him so he can separate himself from it

i think

Yeah, I don't care that much since I'm not an admin. If I was an admin, I'd say we'd need the site to distance itself from making political statements, and that we shouldn't feel any sort of compulsion to change the wording we use to describe killing someone in the group.

Thanks rumox for voicing the majority of the rest of my sentiment towards this topic.

[deathworlds]

real talk, it's not a good idea to decide "our new word" based off a game, as fun an idea as that sounds on the surface.

From what I understand it's that the bot will change the verb every game after the winner's MVP decides what it'll be.
So it wouldn't just stick around forever, and it'd be a game by game basis.

[rumox]

And obviously it would need a nod from MM or whoever before being accepted. I don't see anything wrong with it

[DJarJar]

From what I understand it's that the bot will change the verb every game after the winner's MVP decides what it'll be.
So it wouldn't just stick around forever, and it'd be a game by game basis.

And obviously it would need a nod from MM or whoever before being accepted. I don't see anything wrong with it

darn i thought voss would be the bad guy for me. Umm:

1) you'd have to have a consensus on who the MVP is. Another guy who might think he deserves MVP could get quite upset over such a simple thing

2) Voss or I would have to edit the bot code every time an FM game ends....


Guys there are plenty of ideas that would be less painful for me lol

[Voss]

it's frustrating to see the same arguments being brought up that I thought I debunked. no one reads wall posts, just like in fucking forum mafia.

[rumox]

The bane of great ideas, effort

[deathworlds]

1) you'd have to have a consensus on who the MVP is. Another guy who might think he deserves MVP could get quite upset over such a simple thing

Didn't we have an fifteen page (20 POSTS PER PAGE GANG) argument on why we don't particularity care about the ravings and ranting of one individual?
Either way we usually have at least a majority consensus on who a faction's mvp is, at least in my experience, if one person thinks they're entitled to mvp and therefor the privilege of changing one word in a bot for one game then that's their problem.

2) Voss or I would have to edit the bot code every time an FM game ends....


Guys there are plenty of ideas that would be less painful for me lol

Make an easy to use interface that changes it? It doesn't seem that particularly painful to change one word in an automated message, granted I don't know a ton about coding, but from the way Voss described it, it didn't seem that much of a challenge.

[rumox]

Yup.

A text box with a button. Only authorized people have access to it. Clicking the button makes the entered text replace the word. Authorized people speak to the MVP and ask for the word. Can't see why not! And yep mvps are already voted without any quells and if people start getting pissy when they dont get it now there is some incentive, they can simply get good.

[DJarJar]

I could do that, it would just be like an equal amount of effort as massively improving the ISO feature to be more like MU

[DJarJar]

Also it’s not one word. Lynch comes up like 20 times in the bot code. As an example x was lynched is one thing, but X votes to lynch is another thing... blah blah blah there are simpler rewards I can give you people!

[BananaCucho]

I could do that, it would just be like an equal amount of effort as massively improving the ISO feature to be more like MU

ISO feature more important IMO. Don't remember what its like on MU but on Mafiascum its awesome and makes me upset that we don't have that here

[BananaCucho]

5 votes to hammer...

[deathworlds]

Also it’s not one word. Lynch comes up like 20 times in the bot code. As an example x was lynched is one thing, but X votes to lynch is another thing... blah blah blah there are simpler rewards I can give you people!

Oh okay that makes sense, bit more of an endeavor than I imagined

[DJarJar]

Oh okay that makes sense, bit more of an endeavor than I imagined

Hey it wouldn’t be that bad. But like first I’d need to replace all usages in the bot with a global variable right? Then I need to make like a web form to submit a change for that global variable? And only make it accessible for certain usergroups? It’s doable but a decent amount of changes. And I don’t like that if there is a bug in it, then FM would be dead until a sysadmin could come on and fix it ya know

[rumox]

Tabled under could not be fucked?

[DJarJar]

And btw I’ve added the following things to Fm in the last month which took a lot less effort:

1) quote break button

2) vote button

3) ISOs you can now see the full context of the post including the quotes

4) on ISO page there is a quote button now which I manually coded since normally search results can’t be replied to!

[BananaCucho]

And btw I’ve added the following things to Fm in the last month which took a lot less effort:

1) quote break button

Hey I found the button!

2) vote button

This one is cool

3) ISOs you can now see the full context of the post including the quotes

I did notice this, which has been nice, thank you

4) on ISO page there is a quote button now which I manually coded since normally search results can’t be replied to!

Didn't notice this one, will look forward to trying it out

[Voss]

Also it’s not one word. Lynch comes up like 20 times in the bot code. As an example x was lynched is one thing, but X votes to lynch is another thing... blah blah blah there are simpler rewards I can give you people!

it'd be a better effort to let narrator do setup building and game management than the godfather bot, but i'm just shamelessly plugging

[Ganelon]

Incidentally, I’m also working on something atm. It’s basically a web-based Setup Editor, because I hate having to use Rich Text to create setups.

[Ganelon]

Basically the UI would be much the same as SC2Maf (the mod’s) UI.
Except it would let you create custom roles and (hopefully, down the line) custom night actions.