I challenge all Atheists to answer this question.

[Ash]

If God wasn't real, why is science and the Big Bang contradicted by Antoine Lavoisier’s Law of Conservation of Mass (1789)?

How did all the particles from the Big Bang come into play, if it is clear that all matter cannot be created or destroyed? Where did this matter come from?

Remember, God is monitoring this thread. Good luck, atheists.

[Ganelon]

Lol interesting question.
I’m a deist but I still think the idea of god is problematic. I mean, you’re either asking me to believe that God existed before the Universe, which begs the question of - what was there before god, and how did he come into existence? If you don’t believe in God, them how did nothing turn into something?

They’re honestly both extremely complicated questions and we most likely won’t be getting these answers for another billion years or so.

I think that we’re either thinking about God the wrong way, or that our current understanding of God is correct but only scratching the first nanometers of the surface. I suspect that it is the latter; we’ve been thinking about God for a very long time, man. Maybe it was the first philosophical question ever asked. So it wouldn’t be unfair to argue that what we believe right now, or maybe the path we’re taking, at the very least, is correct.

[SuperJack]

Rule 1 of religion: If you can't explain it, blame/thank god.

[Ganelon]

Tbh I think it’s a matter of belief. Sure, religious bigots who blame God and don’t believe in evolution exist, but that’s not everyone. I really feel like the existence of a supreme being has neither been proven nor disproven. So whether you choose to believe in God or not is mostly a matter of personal choice.

[oops_ur_dead]

all the particles came from ur mom's fat fucking ass

[oops_ur_dead]

>Satan tells humans to eat the forbidden fruit, God gets mad because it gave them free will
>Punishes humans for making the choice to eat the forbidden fruit that gave them free will
>A decision that they made when they didn't have free will, so they couldn't have chosen to not eat the forbidden fruit
>God programs humans to commit the original sin, despite being omniscient, and gets mad at them for doing so, then doesn't remove free will despite being omnipotent

why do people still believe in these magic stories lmao

[yzb25]

tbf I had to read Paradise Lost Book IX for A-level (highschool) and I thought it was fucking sick.

[yzb25]

After eating the fruit, they shag like crazy and suddenly feel shame in nudity. It's like what puberty should have been.

[theoneceko]

After eating the fruit, they shag like crazy and suddenly feel shame in nudity. It's like what puberty should have been.

bonk

[SuperJack]

https://youtu.be/IVbnciQYMiM

[BananaCucho]

Yeah no. If god exists, it's not the god of christianity. That god claims to be all knowing, all powerful, and all good. If the god of christianity exists, it is NOT all good and does not deserve worship, adoration, nor respect. I spit on the very thought of it.

If a god exists its some random being that gets a kick out of watching it's "children" (or science experiment) suffer.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

As an agnostic:

If God wasn't real, why is science and the Big Bang contradicted by Antoine Lavoisier’s Law of Conservation of Mass (1789)?

How did all the particles from the Big Bang come into play, if it is clear that all matter cannot be created or destroyed? Where did this matter come from?

Remember, God is monitoring this thread. Good luck, atheists.

Antoine Lavoisier and the sciencists who made modern science are not God. They don't know reality, or at the very least not fully. It's not because you cannot explain something that it automatically involves divine beings. That is not really debatable.
If you need an example, think of those times when you lose something (like your pencil) and never find it again. It's very probably not that a supreme being made your pencil disappear. The more likely hypothesis is that... you're too imperfect to find it, because you don't know everything.

Now, I'm less certain of that part, but couldn't that matter/energy just have been sitting there for all eternity?

@oops_ur_dead imagine taking the Bible literally

[Ash]

As an agnostic:


Antoine Lavoisier and the sciencists who made modern science are not God. They don't know reality, or at the very least not fully. It's not because you cannot explain something that it automatically involves divine beings. That is not really debatable.
If you need an example, think of those times when you lose something (like your pencil) and never find it again. It's very probably not that a supreme being made your pencil disappear. The more likely hypothesis is that... you're too imperfect to find it, because you don't know everything.

Now, I'm less certain of that part, but couldn't that matter/energy just have been sitting there for all eternity?

@oops_ur_dead imagine taking the Bible literally

Yes and no. Where did that pencil come from in the first place? A tree? Where did that tree come from, a seed? How was that seed made, how did all those particles come into existence in the first place?

My point is that science will never be able to achieve an answer to all its questions. Even if we as a species survive for millions and millions of years, and discover how our Universe was made, there will always be the same question of "How?" So my question is, up to what point are you willing to accept that God is real? Scientifically speaking, it is impossible for the universe to exist from a complete void out of nothingness. Much like Newton's Laws of Motion, nothing will spontaneously happen just because it "can".

Yes you can say that there is no "proof" of God, just like there is no proof of a fourth dimension. What if they are the same? What if God is just on a much higher dimension and we cannot comprehend because we're stuck in a three-dimensional world? If you make a game, let's say you make a 2d sandbox game just like Minecraft and you have intelligent AI in it that act on their own, does that make you a God?

[Ganelon]

Tbh you guys should read either The Last Answer by Isaac Asimov. That’s how I imagine God.
I honestly think that if I were a supreme being I would be waaay too fucking busy doing heavenly stuff to notice humanity. Then again maybe not.

Also, if you start to look at the Judaeo-Christian God as a harsh father rather than a supreme being, you’ll start understanding the Old Testament a lot better.

[BananaCucho]

Yes and no. Where did that pencil come from in the first place? A tree? Where did that tree come from, a seed? How was that seed made, how did all those particles come into existence in the first place?

My point is that science will never be able to achieve an answer to all its questions. Even if we as a species survive for millions and millions of years, and discover how our Universe was made, there will always be the same question of "How?" So my question is, up to what point are you willing to accept that God is real? Scientifically speaking, it is impossible for the universe to exist from a complete void out of nothingness. Much like Newton's Laws of Motion, nothing will spontaneously happen just because it "can".

Yes you can say that there is no "proof" of God, just like there is no proof of a fourth dimension. What if they are the same? What if God is just on a much higher dimension and we cannot comprehend because we're stuck in a three-dimensional world? If you make a game, let's say you make a 2d sandbox game just like Minecraft and you have intelligent AI in it that act on their own, does that make you a God?

Well, DUH. The whole point of science is to study the universe and try to understand why things happen and how things work. There's no point to be made here by stating that lol

What we know from science though is achieved through the scientific method, and if you were to wipe out our species and force it to start all over, it would eventually come to understand that exact same things once again.

Can you say the same about religion? Given that science has proved certain points about the bible wrong/incorrect in a literal sense, religion has had to make the choice to either move the goal posts to fit what science has helped us come to understand (biblical stories aren't literal) or to deny scientific discoveries (evolution doesn't exist). If humanity was wiped out and had to start over, would the lessons and doctrines in the bible be the same? With all of the many differing ideas and contradictions that are contained in it?

(this goes for any religion btw)

[BananaCucho]

I honestly think that if I were a supreme being I would be waaay too fucking busy doing heavenly stuff to notice humanity.

As an atheist, I can accept this idea of an uncaring supreme being. It makes sense.

That being said, that type of being is not worth adoring or worshiping, so what does it matter?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Yes and no. Where did that pencil come from in the first place? A tree? Where did that tree come from, a seed? How was that seed made, how did all those particles come into existence in the first place?

My point is that science will never be able to achieve an answer to all its questions. Even if we as a species survive for millions and millions of years, and discover how our Universe was made, there will always be the same question of "How?" So my question is, up to what point are you willing to accept that God is real? Scientifically speaking, it is impossible for the universe to exist from a complete void out of nothingness. Much like Newton's Laws of Motion, nothing will spontaneously happen just because it "can".

Yes you can say that there is no "proof" of God, just like there is no proof of a fourth dimension. What if they are the same? What if God is just on a much higher dimension and we cannot comprehend because we're stuck in a three-dimensional world? If you make a game, let's say you make a 2d sandbox game just like Minecraft and you have intelligent AI in it that act on their own, does that make you a God?

You are distorting my example I'm only saying that if humanity can't figure something out now, it doesn't mean it never will be able to figure it out.

Although I tend to agree with you, you cannot say for sure that humanity will never reach that knowledge. It's highly unlikely, but it is not necessarily impossible.

Do we live in a simulation made so well that we can never know if we live in one or not? That question is inherently unanswerable. As for "no proof", exactly. It's faith, not science. That is why I believe there is something that created us, not necessarily something demanding worship but still something. The fact that I believe it, I do not know it. Those who pretend to know it are either misunderstood prophets, or more simply and much more likely, wrong.

Tbh you guys should read either The Last Answer by Isaac Asimov. That’s how I imagine God.
I honestly think that if I were a supreme being I would be waaay too fucking busy doing heavenly stuff to notice humanity. Then again maybe not.

Also, if you start to look at the Judaeo-Christian God as a harsh father rather than a supreme being, you’ll start understanding the Old Testament a lot better.

But His righteousness in being a harsh father lies in the assumed fact that he is the supreme being. If we're talking about the very existence of a supreme being, your circumstancial clarification is irrelevant. Am I mistaken?

And lol the idea of God being "too busy" is a bit contradictory, but it probably makes a great and original story.

[Ganelon]

He doesn’t have to be the supreme being to be a harsh father. I mean, neither does your real father, and he’s still pretty damn important.

[Cancer]

As an atheist, I can accept this idea of an uncaring supreme being. It makes sense.

That being said, that type of being is not worth adoring or worshiping, so what does it matter?

Whassap.

[BananaCucho]

Whassap.

=)

[Cancer]

=)

=)

[BananaCucho]

(=

[Toadette]

=)

[Toad]

(=

[theoneceko]

Yes and no. Where did that pencil come from in the first place? A tree? Where did that tree come from, a seed? How was that seed made, how did all those particles come into existence in the first place?

My point is that science will never be able to achieve an answer to all its questions. Even if we as a species survive for millions and millions of years, and discover how our Universe was made, there will always be the same question of "How?" So my question is, up to what point are you willing to accept that God is real? Scientifically speaking, it is impossible for the universe to exist from a complete void out of nothingness. Much like Newton's Laws of Motion, nothing will spontaneously happen just because it "can".

Yes you can say that there is no "proof" of God, just like there is no proof of a fourth dimension. What if they are the same? What if God is just on a much higher dimension and we cannot comprehend because we're stuck in a three-dimensional world? If you make a game, let's say you make a 2d sandbox game just like Minecraft and you have intelligent AI in it that act on their own, does that make you a God?

ushould read a winrkle in time by madleine lengle.uwu

[theoneceko]

=)

[Sylvanas]

The Big Bang is a theory that offers an incomplete and provisional explanation for the origins of the universe. Science is about searching for knowledge and questioning the answers.

"God did this" is what you say when you want to have an answer for everything but don't want to think.

[SUPERDUCK]

=)

[Kovath]

=)

wtf is this throwback acc

[Marshmallow Marshall]

=)

And yes Sylvanas is right, the Big Bang is a theory, it's very probably not perfect, but at least it's not "Ooo some guy clapped his fingers and the world was created EXACTLY THIS WAY, say I'm wrong and you're an heretic".

[oops_ur_dead]

The Big Bang is not a theory for how the universe was created, it's a model for the very early history of the universe after the planck epoch. There are no legitimate empirically supported theories for what happened "before" the Big Bang, all known theories point to there being a singularity containing all energy in the universe before it expanded. The Big Bang is strongly supported by evidence, but nobody truly knows where the universe itself came from.

[BananaCucho]

The Big Bang is not a theory for how the universe was created, it's a model for the very early history of the universe after the planck epoch. There are no legitimate empirically supported theories for what happened "before" the Big Bang, all known theories point to there being a singularity containing all energy in the universe before it expanded. The Big Bang is strongly supported by evidence, but nobody truly knows where the universe itself came from.

Yeah guys, a scientific theory isn't a hypothesis. C'mon now

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

[Ganelon]

On the topic of religion (with or without God being the supreme being), at the risk of being a shill, I suggest you guys watch some of Jordan Peterson’s videos in religion. They are unbelievably interesting because he attempts to explain why man thought about the world the way he did, and how this is viable in the Old Testament and the Bible in general. Like for instance, for him( when Eve ate from the Tree in the Garden I’d Eden, Adam pretty much becomes the archetypal loser by blaming her for leading him astray; and Eve has an excuse because she was at least deceived by the serpent.

I am not the best at explaining it. Suffice it to say you really should check him out. For him, God seems to br mostly the God of the Old Testament, but not precisely a supreme being: rather a very, very harsh (but also somewhat just) father; he made his own chosen people wander through the desert for 40 years, after all. He is more like a hungry lion plus a harsh father figure in one than a supreme being.

[Renegade]

If God wasn't real, why is science and the Big Bang contradicted by Antoine Lavoisier’s Law of Conservation of Mass (1789)?

How did all the particles from the Big Bang come into play, if it is clear that all matter cannot be created or destroyed? Where did this matter come from?

Remember, God is monitoring this thread. Good luck, atheists.

Lmfao this is a joke right? Just because science doesn't have an answer for the big bang doesn't mean God is real. Science doesn't presuppose to know everything. Arguing with "faith" is pointless since belief despite everything is the definition of "faith" itself.

There is no God.

[Renegade]

Even if Abrahamic god was real, why worship that self-absorbed asshole? You mean to tell me you created the universe and humans just to be worshipped?

Get a life, God.

100% serious, if God revealed himself today and demanded worship, I would say fuck no to that.

[Renegade]

Yeah no. If god exists, it's not the god of christianity. That god claims to be all knowing, all powerful, and all good. If the god of christianity exists, it is NOT all good and does not deserve worship, adoration, nor respect. I spit on the very thought of it.

If a god exists its some random being that gets a kick out of watching it's "children" (or science experiment) suffer.

Yes I didn't read this before my last post, but yes this x1000. God is a goofy loser.

[yzb25]

The bible, particularly the old testament, is quite fascinating when viewed as a small, unreliable window into the ancient mind rather than an authoritative text. In fact, the mere authorship of the old testament is itself a source of great intrigue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis

From what I understand, there were loads of gods and religions floating around the Middle East 3000 years ago, before dominant empires formed and started to unify the world's faiths. Wouldn't it be amazing to know what they thought about the world? And to think that Judaism, one tiny religion amongst many, would go on to have such a profound effect on world history...

[theoneceko]

The bible, particularly the old testament, is quite fascinating when viewed as a small, unreliable window into the ancient mind rather than an authoritative text. In fact, the mere authorship of the old testament is itself a source of great intrigue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis

From what I understand, there were loads of gods and religions floating around the Middle East 3000 years ago, before dominant empires formed and started to unify the world's faiths. Wouldn't it be amazing to know what they thought about the world? And to think that Judaism, one tiny religion amongst many, would go on to have such a profound effect on world history...

UwU

[yzb25]

Do you ever wish you could see simulations of other human earths with the parameters changed slightly, to see what other possible cultures humanity created? The world we exist in is one where one tiny cult in Israel happened to have a dominant effect on the religious beliefs of most of the world. Maybe in another world, monotheism wouldn't enjoy such indisputed dominance. Or maybe the dominance of monotheism is inevitable. Maybe the dominant world's religions could have ended up having a totally different view of human sexuality, good and bad, the afterlife.

[theoneceko]

Do you ever wish you could see simulations of other human earths with the parameters changed slightly, to see what other possible cultures humanity created? The world we exist in is one where one tiny cult in Israel happened to have a dominant effect on the religious beliefs of most of the world. Maybe in another world, monotheism wouldn't enjoy such indisputed dominance. Or maybe the dominance of monotheism is inevitable. Maybe the dominant world's religions could have ended up having a totally different view of human sexuality, good and bad, the afterlife.

UwU
thatactually sounds ocool owo. altho that'snot someting i considered b4. uvu

[Sylvanas]

Do you ever wish you could see simulations of other human earths with the parameters changed slightly, to see what other possible cultures humanity created? The world we exist in is one where one tiny cult in Israel happened to have a dominant effect on the religious beliefs of most of the world. Maybe in another world, monotheism wouldn't enjoy such indisputed dominance. Or maybe the dominance of monotheism is inevitable. Maybe the dominant world's religions could have ended up having a totally different view of human sexuality, good and bad, the afterlife.

To hell with simulations, let's see what happens when we up the planet's thermostat a few degrees.

[Ganelon]

Tbh science hasn’t disproven God either. It’s an open question. It’s of course unlikely that God will be the God of the Bible if and when we discover him, though....

[Renegade]

Tbh science hasn’t disproven God either. It’s an open question. It’s of course unlikely that God will be the God of the Bible if and when we discover him, though....

By definition, at least in Christianity, science CAN'T prove God exists, because if you knew he existed, then you wouldn't have "faith", and having "faith" is the bedrock of the goofiness.

Strange stuff.

[BananaCucho]

By definition, at least in Christianity, science CAN'T prove God exists, because if you knew he existed, then you wouldn't have "faith", and having "faith" is the bedrock of the goofiness.

Strange stuff.

The ultimate loophole.

[Sylvanas]

Tbh science hasn’t disproven God either. It’s an open question. It’s of course unlikely that God will be the God of the Bible if and when we discover him, though....

You can't prove non-existence. You can't make a statement without any evidence to back it up and expect people to accept it as true unless they can disprove it. See: invisible pink unicorn, flying spaghetti monster.

[Ganelon]

You can't prove non-existence. You can't make a statement without any evidence to back it up and expect people to accept it as true unless they can disprove it. See: invisible pink unicorn, flying spaghetti monster.

I’d say the existence of the universe is evidence enough.

[Sylvanas]

I’d say the existence of the universe is evidence enough.

Maybe from a theist's perspective. It's a form of confirmation bias. If you believe in a god, the unexplained serves as justification for whatever you believe in. Before people knew how they worked, things like lightning, plagues and natural catastrophes could perfectly be passed off as a god's actions, leading to a circular logic where those events justify god and god justifies those events. But they were just unanswered questions, much like the origins of the universe. I think the Universe looks more like a random mess than something a sentient all-powerful being would create, not to mention omnipotence itself is a paradox.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I’d say the existence of the universe is evidence enough.

Maybe from a theist's perspective. It's a form of confirmation bias. If you believe in a god, the unexplained serves as justification for whatever you believe in. Before people knew how they worked, things like lightning, plagues and natural catastrophes could perfectly be passed off as a god's actions, leading to a circular logic where those events justify god and god justifies those events. But they were just unanswered questions, much like the origins of the universe.

I completely agree with Sylvanas here. Although it's possible and somewhat likely IMO that a world creator exists, it's not proven, and you cannot say the existence of the universe proves the existence of a creator. As much as the creator could have been there for eternity, the universe, simply existing, could, too.

Yes I didn't read this before my last post, but yes this x1000. God is a goofy loser.

LOL

[Ganelon]

My point was that it’s unfair to compare the existence of God with miracles. That comparison isn’t even close lol. No matter how you spin it the creation or whatever? The origins of the Universe don’t make any sense; you either have to believe that it has always existed (kek), that it emerged from nothing, or that a supreme being or force created it - which begs the question, who or what created that being?

[oops_ur_dead]

My point was that it’s unfair to compare the existence of God with miracles. That comparison isn’t even close lol. No matter how you spin it the creation or whatever? The origins of the Universe don’t make any sense; you either have to believe that it has always existed (kek), that it emerged from nothing, or that a supreme being or force created it - which begs the question, who or what created that being?

I agree with this, it's a bit weird that anything exists in the first place. Then again, it would also be just as weird if nothing existed at all.

The way I see it, and religion in general, is that it's so outside of mine and anyone else's realm of understanding that it's truly not worth thinking about at all, at least in any serious capacity. Anything we can come up with is fancy speculation, because there's no way within our physical laws (at least, as far as we know) to formulate any scientific theory or gather evidence for any hypothesis. Thinking about what exists outside our universe, where our universe came from, and how time and the such formed is as much of a useless endeavour as hypothesizing whether aliens exist in a specific galaxy billions of light years from us and what they might have for lunch. I just don't see why it's something that people think is necessary to think about, beyond personal interest and fun theorycrafting.