(suggestion/help) Arsonist too easily discovered

[Carrein]

Hello there, it has been a while since I've posted on these forums, but only recently I've been sucked back into mafia.


Now I'd like to point out that with the new meta game (so many new roles) an arsonist has no viable way to defend himself from a lynch. Sheriff can 100% detect him and investigator can 100% for sure. And even if you claim bus driver, they'll ask who you swapped. And even if there was a chance you were a bus driver, people will still lynch you because people hate busdrivers (they screw up the investigations).


It's not even viable to be a bus driver who doesn't drive anyone (cuz it screws up the game). This might look like a rant because I just lost as an arsonist and it's true, QQ more B*.


But I didn't say it was impossible to win as an arsonist, sometimes you're just so very lucky the townies lynch themselves and doused targets stay alive. But it should be more than being just lucky, it's a game of deceit and lies after all, while as an arsonist you can't really say anything without giving you away.


Witch, serial killer and godfather each have viable roles they can pose as. Arsonist cannot however. They have got an allure of might be innocent, while an arsonist just always is guilty until proven innocent (which a real bus driver would easily do).


Any ideas on a new role perhaps when the new patch comes to aid arsonists in their quest for victory?

[EliteMarine]

I agree the Arson is hard to win as. This is true.

Honestly, the best chance to win is hope that Sheriff or Investigator does not find you. Hopefully they can be killed early on in the game.

Not much an Arson can do to wiggle out of a lynch. I have won as an arson like 3 times. Twice becuase I was a random nuetral and arson can douse without town knownledge...and once becuase town was major fail. (Jailor executing town, trolls being trolls, rando lynches, etc...)

[Glip]

My save has an Arson (sometimes two) in which is invuln at night, targets don't know they're doused, burning bypasses doctor and immunity, and the sheriff can't detect them.

I have, without exaggeration, played over one hundred games with this save.

An arson has won maybe 3 or 4 times.

I still have yet to get my arson win DX

[Ambient]

Suggestion for ez Arson wins.

Have arsonist set as a random adv neutral. Not a designated role. Silent dousing, and Sheriff does not detect.

On a standard game Arsonist is a fairly low priority. When I have lost as arsonist it is always because MAFIA has found me. Generally the town is less interested in perusing an arsonist if there are several mafia members remaining. Sure the arsonist can normally be detected by the investigator or sheriff, but lets face it. in 50% of the games these investigative roles are killed pretty early.

Games are won by knowledge. When you are an evil role, you just need to be able to manipulate the data in your favor. People are fairly easy to fool.

[JSaint]

No douse detection and invulnerable settings work well...

If you don't aim for disco and u go for unconspicious targets... and just wait for mafia to slowly kill and douse their gf in the process ... it is usually fine. Just suddenly blow up people at a point where you are about to die and mafia and sk have thinned out the crowd.

Mafia usually will be happy to keep you as an ally and leave you alone.

[EagleMan]

If you want to get your fires out, sometimes this lie can work well: Claim you are the Bus Driver and you swapped yourself with whoever, so that means that THAT person is actually the Arsonist and not you. Self-swap must be enabled of course, and generally this lie is harder to pull off late game, though not if there's already been another BD in play switching people around.

Either way an option could be done that Bus Driver targets don't know they were switched. This might result in more lynchings of Bus Drivers, but it's already kind of imbalanced in a way how BD so easily proves his role and can basically provide direct immunity to himself (switching off to a target he thinks will be safe). It may also result in some Arsonists being able to get away.

The role settings in this thread work pretty well, but you can't always count on being host. Usually Bus Driver is set to swap self though, so my lie may help you out on occasion. Even if I know I won't win, it's still satisfying to burn people to death before I go. Also, who knows, they might find the SK or GF the next day, and they'll lynch them first (as one should), thus giving you another day.

[Carrein]

Well the thing is, you don't really know WHEN you're going to die. Because all it takes is one lucky sheriff (confirmed or not) to take you to the stand, where you can't say your role or you're dead anyway.

[Lazers]

Your best bet as arsonist is to strike first before someone asks you to claim your role

This is especially easy in setups where BD can target himself. Simply wait for someone to cry out they were switched, then find a chance to claim that you are BD and you switched them and yourself the previous night. Usually works. Alternatively you can just douse investigative roles first and kill them as soon as possible

Although in some cases you may just want to shut up and be quiet, especially when there's no investigator/sheriff lurking around. In my setup sheriffs can't detect arsonists so all the arson has to watch for are invests

[EliteMarine]

You chance greatly increases if Arson isn't on the role list, but random nuetrals instead. I can't preach enough that neutral roles should never be defined.

[MissingNo]

This is especially easy in setups where BD can target himself. Simply wait for someone to cry out they were switched, then find a chance to claim that you are BD and you switched them and yourself the previous night. Usually works. Alternatively you can just douse investigative roles first and kill them as soon as possible

No.

blue: "fuck u for switching me, bd"
arson: "I switched myself with blue last night."
< in actuality, blue was swapped with pink >
pink: I was also swapped last night...
teal: im the REAL bus driver. i swapped blue with pink. Kill the arson.

----------------------------------------------------------


I suggest making sheriff unable to detect arson.

Or a bit more drastic, you could change invest report on arson to say loner. Then you could change witch and BD both to "your target enjoys causing chaos".

[McKinley]

If you want to get your fires out, sometimes this lie can work well: Claim you are the Bus Driver and you swapped yourself with whoever, so that means that THAT person is actually the Arsonist and not you. Self-swap must be enabled of course, and generally this lie is harder to pull off late game, though not if there's already been another BD in play switching people around.

Either way an option could be done that Bus Driver targets don't know they were switched. This might result in more lynchings of Bus Drivers, but it's already kind of imbalanced in a way how BD so easily proves his role and can basically provide direct immunity to himself (switching off to a target he thinks will be safe). It may also result in some Arsonists being able to get away.

The role settings in this thread work pretty well, but you can't always count on being host. Usually Bus Driver is set to swap self though, so my lie may help you out on occasion. Even if I know I won't win, it's still satisfying to burn people to death before I go. Also, who knows, they might find the SK or GF the next day, and they'll lynch them first (as one should), thus giving you another day.

The part about bus driver victims not knowing they were bus driven: this was in game for awhile, and was taken out. It was just too hectic in the game.

[LeaD]

just make setups with no default sheriffs and investigators + make sheriffs dont detect arsos.
bodyguard, lookout, detective are much more fun roles to use as default roles than docs/invests/sheriffs/jailors. the roles i mentioned first don't usually have a definitive use (unless only 1 person = the killer, visited the lookout target) so the kids won't have as much fun crying : THAT GUY IS MAF I AM SHERIFF n stuff like that
+ also throw in a jester for visits, so detectives and possibly lookouts can be fooled by kills (jester poke actually useful with default lookout det)

[EagleMan]

Detective tends to be a pretty poor role though. You can never really conclusively say anything even if there's no Witch/Bus Driver.

[LeaD]

i think he's great, because the game is fucked up if it's "conclusive" it's more of real clue variant tbh that way

[Carrein]

didn't doused people used to have a chance to come up as arsonist to the sheriff?

[creedkingsx]

Detective is useless compared to lookout.

[TheJackofSpades]

didn't doused people used to have a chance to come up as arsonist to the sheriff?

Yeah and it was the most awesome option ever so it was removed less than 2 weeks of it being added.

Srs though, Arsonist is the most dangerous role in the game when it isn't declared. If you really want to buff it, there are plenty of options to do so, including removing sheriff detect.

[EagleMan]

Sheriff detection is definitely a big one, but most people don't do it. Most hosts will buff up the Arsonist to his maximum power but they forget that they can buff him by nerfing the Sheriff as well.

[Gingerape]

Yeah and it was the most awesome option ever so it was removed less than 2 weeks of it being added.

Srs though, Arsonist is the most dangerous role in the game when it isn't declared. If you really want to buff it, there are plenty of options to do so, including removing sheriff detect.

I miss this option so much. ):
Investigators would be like "why the fuck does everyone have gas?"

[LeaD]

why are you claiming det to be useless? all you need is a second night to confirm stuff, which is way better than being an investigator and just trying to guess the role of the guy
obv you don't have the THAT ASSHOLE IS ARSO CUZ HE HAS GAS, but i dislike all that role detecting stuff anyway, it takes away the mental challenge of the game

[Randoman]

I dont know if this still happens but if sombody is doused isnt it like a 10% chance invest will see this person smells like gasoline then there role?Cant we do that with the sheriff to?

[Carrein]

As said before, it was removed.

[Pokemon Trainer Red]

Arsonist is a very hard role to win as. Most people (if they are the host) will put an Arsonist and a Bus Driver in so if a sherrif finds the arson he won't be link "GUIZ I FOUNDS DA ARSON, HE HAS GASSSSSS" But insted he could be a Bus Driver as well. Just my 2 cents.

[Carrein]

"Who did you busdrive?"

-silent

random guy: HE'S F* ARSONIST, KILL HIM!
-

Bus driver can easily get confirmed by town. So easy.
---------

What I did now in my save was, change sheriff detection and make arsonist vulnerable at night.

[EagleMan]

I just had my setting played with the super powered Arsonist, it went pretty well. I tried to disguise because I expected to be burnt that night but apparently you can't disguise your way out of a burn. He ended up winning because our GF was dumb and chose to lynch the last townie instead of the Arsonist. Either way it went pretty well. The only issue is that as host I know how the game is set up, so if I'm Town then I already know there's an Arsonist lurking about.