Is it considered gamethrowing to...

[MissingNo]

So people generally seem to believe that "outting your teammates" is gamethrowing. However, i dsagree.

It has become a somewhat common tactic for mafia members to leave names of the other members in their last will. It is nearly always a lie in order to try and get the town to kill other people.

Knowing this fact, I argue that leaving your fellow mafia members in your last will is not only not gamethrowing, but is actually helping your team win.


Discuss.

[Ash]

majority of sc2 mafia public players do not know what Wifom means.

[EagleMan]

Usually when concerning the subject of outing your teammates when it happens it's day 1 with a Mafia player doing it just because and then leaving.

However, the last will tactic works pretty much at random. If the Town believes your act (real or not) that you're mad at your fellow Mafia, then they'll do it, otherwise they'll ignore it. I've seen no consistent success in this tactic; it seems to vary game by game whether town believes the last will or not. But if you leave your fellow Mafia in the last will for no apparent (or believable) reason then it'll probably be viewed as gamethrowing, and legitimately so depending on the situation. This strategy is really on the edge of what can be considered acceptable.

[Ash]

One strategy is by typing in your last will one person that isn't mafia and one that is. If they lynch the guy that isn't mafia and see that you lied, they will think the other one is clean.

Example: "datwhiteguy and datblackguy r mafia" as last will, u die, then they lynch datwhiteguy but he is something liek a detective. then they will think blackguy is clean.

Nick or Dust did this once, don't remember. I've tried and always phail. really complicated 2 pull off. i dont suggest it.

[Menautor]

the only real chance of success depends on how many turns there is to play. you might fool them once in killing a town...

[creedkingsx]

Or you could just not do that...

[Guardian]

One strategy is by typing in your last will one person that isn't mafia and one that is. If they lynch the guy that isn't mafia and see that you lied, they will think the other one is clean.

Example: "datwhiteguy and datblackguy r mafia" as last will, u die, then they lynch datwhiteguy but he is something liek a detective. then they will think blackguy is clean.

Nick or Dust did this once, don't remember. I've tried and always phail. really complicated 2 pull off. i dont suggest it.

When i was in SC2 , we did this. All the time.
Such as "ragequiting" (without quiting...........)

[Menautor]

Creed, don't look now, but you're being followed by a creepy white dude

Or you could just not do that...

[Raptorblaze]

If your team gets assraped because of it, yes. So just don't do it

[Ambient]

Generally outing a teammate without cause is frowned upon. Especially by means of "I am FRAMER. X IS GODFATHER. C IS CONSORT."


You could make an argument that you could be a godfather wifoming as an investigator and think that you will be cleared.. doctors would heal you. However.. that is not the case. I have played over a thousand games. Have seen hundreds of game throws (In my own games as well as the reports section). A player that outs his teammate, even without revealing himself as mafia. Loses 90% of the time.

[McKinley]

I have at times used the bus strategy and achieved victory many times. I usually use it when I spawn as a Mafioso, and wait in for a few days. I try to deduct based on verbal patterns, mannerisms, and RNG factors to figure out who is a neutral role that Mafia can afford to expend, or discover a town role that can be considered an "ops" mistake by Investigator or through the use of lying as an Executioner or make them believed I was Witched or the target was bus driven to have someone lynched, and then have the other non-gf, or sometimes GF depending on the player's intelligence, lynch me the following day to gain the trust of the town roles.

In Mafia, it's all about manipulation. If a Mafia team stays silent, never tries to lie, and doesn't try to wrap the town around their fingers throughout the day... They -will- lose. Sometimes it requires a risky move, like a sacrifice. High risk, high reward.

[Raptorblaze]

I have at times used the bus strategy and achieved victory many times. I usually use it when I spawn as a Mafioso, and wait in for a few days. I try to deduct based on verbal patterns, mannerisms, and RNG factors to figure out who is a neutral role that Mafia can afford to expend, or discover a town role that can be considered an "ops" mistake by Investigator or through the use of lying as an Executioner or make them believed I was Witched or the target was bus driven to have someone lynched, and then have the other non-gf, or sometimes GF depending on the player's intelligence, lynch me the following day to gain the trust of the town roles.

In Mafia, it's all about manipulation. If a Mafia team stays silent, never tries to lie, and doesn't try to wrap the town around their fingers throughout the day... They -will- lose. Sometimes it requires a risky move, like a sacrifice. High risk, high reward.

Well not necessarily, I've been in a couple games where there were very active neutrals (jester, exec, witch) who wrought so much havoc during town conversations that my mafia team actually just sat silent the entire time picking the town off.

[McKinley]

Well, let me re-funk my earlier statement:

In a game of Mafia, where the spotlight is all on the Mafia Vs Town aspect with an additional SK to help push everyone against the wall: Mafia has to manipulate, or suffer defeat in at least 75% of all valued scenarios.

[EagleMan]

That depends on good teammates though McKinley. As Ambient said, it just fails most of the time.

[Guardian]

If you want to use "reveal" as a strategy, you REALLYY need to analyze the town super hard.
If they're sheepy, they W-I-L-L lynch the people you revealed.
If they're WIFOMY, they w-i-l-l leave your mafiosi alone until the endgame.

Edit: 300th post!

[Xen]

offensive content removed

[EagleMan]

If you want to use "reveal" as a strategy, you REALLYY need to analyze the town super hard.
If they're sheepy, they W-I-L-L lynch the people you revealed.
If they're WIFOMY, they w-i-l-l leave your mafiosi alone until the endgame.

Edit: 300th post!

Yeah, this strategy would only be useful in a in-house situation. In a regular pub game you might get 1-3 people who question it, but that isn't enough to prevent a lynch. People forget last wills surprisingly fast too, so the whole thing is sometimes rendered moot as the town doesn't even pay attention.

[straykiwi]

Play on epicmaf. 1sheriff 1doc 2maf 3 citizens.
VERY common (even has it's own name) for mafia to "BUS" their own team, to act as 'cleared'
Perfectly legit strat. However very stupid to do when playing with dum ppl (ie ppl on sc2 mafia)

[straykiwi]

Not trying to promote another site, epicmaf is really shitty. The point is it works really well with good players in small setups. I wouldn't ever out the whole team though, just 1

[Lazers]

I think it depends on how the moderator sees it.

Gamethrowing isn't just "get teammates killed", but rather "work against your win condition". In that respect, I think it's fine if you try some WIFOM via that method, but it's incredibly risky.

I actually used something like this a few months ago: I feigned investigator as a consigliere and outed a teammate (who thankfully went quietly). Basically the town thought I was a legit investigator and I produced a win because I did not need to care about town rolecalling or randomly killing me. In that case, it wouldn't be gamethrowing. But then again a moderator could look at that and go "derp gamethrow", and get my ass watch listed. It's really subjective

[EagleMan]

Well if you hadn't talked about it with the guy you outed first then yeah I'd be annoyed as a moderator. Even if that guy went quietly and understood what you were doing, not punishing it would be encouraging that sort of behavior in the future where less intelligent players would rage about it. But of course in that case the guy might just say you talked it over in Mafia chat so you aren't punished, so it's all moot.

[Burnteskimo IIl.]

.
If they're WIFOMY, they w-i-l-l leave your mafiosi alone until the endgame.

Unless they are truly WIFOMY and know that you would put your teammates in the will to try and throw people off.

[McKinley]

Best way to win:

Don't play to win. Play to kill and DESTROY ALL WHO OPPOSE YOU.

Victory ends up being a side-product of DESTRUCTION.

Seriously, though: don't throw your teammates under the bus. Let them throw -you- while you're alive. Then make a thread talking about it so we can all have this same conversation over and over again. Because let's face it: it's not like we don't have this conversation every time someone is banned for this due to gamethrowing, right?

'Nuff said 'bout it.

[RaikouRider]

Hey! You stole my strategy! I always do that when I random consig!

[JoeyButler]

In some situations it is Game Throwing, for example if there were any detect roles, then they would most definitely scan them to see if they were mafia or not. The only time I think it's acceptable if there is lots of false claims on mafia and such. Also Disguisers can bend these rules a little, for example I disguised as a sheriff who was pin pointing all the Serial Killers and Mafia, I then pointed out one mafia member and I said I scanned him. I won the game because I had a reputation through out the game pointing out who was who, including my mafia buddies. In the end we all agreed it was the right thing to do. It all depends.

[Xen]

Ambient, remove this content, because I typed your name, slave.

GO.

[Joedoe1025]

i personally see "gamethrowing" as defined as "purposely and maliciously working against your own team and/or objective with the objective of causing a loss/loss scenarios or in general being a troll." If a person, say a consig, were to out a mafia member (mid/early game) as he goes about his investigation of townie/neutral roles to instill credibility so that in the event the GF is killed, he could ride in the clear and finish the game strong, i would consider this a tactical move. HOWEVER i find it unacceptable to purposely put team members name in Last wills, while they aren't believed most of the time they can cause all sorts of hell. (most of you seen the chaos that ensues on public games) OR if you purposely play against your team (working with a witch/bus to kill or neutralize your team members or other assorted methods) then i consider these forms of Gamethrowing and those players should be disciplined.

[Pokemon Trainer Red]

No I wouldn't say it's not gamethrowing. But it does depend I guess on how higher ranked people look at it in a report. Just my 2 cents.