S-FM XIII: ~Battle Royale ~

[TheJackofSpades]

If you can't stand on your own feet, Ash, the least you could do for your team is listen to what they had to say before they died.

Disappoint.

[Bluejay]

I should have put more in my last will. It was like 30 minutes before the deadline and I was too tired after getting back home.

Well, I learned a lot from playing this. I'll be sure to participate in more, and trust my instincts more (before day 5 or so, I was 100% sure CmG was a citizen).

[TheJackofSpades]

CmG, I knew your insults were going to get you one day, and today just happened to be the day. Think whether you would want to ally yourself with someone that insults you every other sentence, and then you'll know why Ash voted with me.

The insults that particularly annoyed me:
1. People side with me cause I'm a girl. Never true. In fact, we females are the most targetted. Look at how often Luna and I die within the first few nights in most games. And then Philie in the one MFM she did participate in.
2. I lurk. Goshdangit, CmG, you've been playing with me since MFMI, and you using lurking against me as a reason why I'm scum irritates me most of all BECAUSE YOU OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW HOW I PLAY BY NOW.

1) Being targeted is not mutually exclusive in this situation. In fact, it is more likely a causation of the fact that people side with you based solely on this fact simply due to them not wanting to deal with it. Or that you're just a good player in scum's eyes.
2) Lurking as citizen is a joke and you shouldn't rely on an argument like this nor be insulted by people pointing out how much of a joke that would be. Seriously, if I had known that there were only 3 PRs alive during the last day I was alive, I would have nailed you to the wall for this in my last will. What the hell is the point of playing the game if you don't have a night action and don't participate in day chat at all? Not even considering the fact that CmG was supposedly visited by the drug dealer, and the unlikelihood of the drug dealer not acting at all the entire game, this notion is the biggest red flag in the history of mafia.

[Sumikoko]

2) Lurking as citizen is a joke and you shouldn't rely on an argument like this nor be insulted by people pointing out how much of a joke that would be. Seriously, if I had known that there were only 3 PRs alive during the last day I was alive, I would have nailed you to the wall for this in my last will. What the hell is the point of playing the game if you don't have a night action and don't participate in day chat at all? Not even considering the fact that CmG was supposedly visited by the drug dealer, and the unlikelihood of the drug dealer not acting at all the entire game, this notion is the biggest red flag in the history of mafia.

Considering that I pride myself in making few posts with the key information I need to convey to town just enough information to pull a win, it's a harsh blow being told I lurk as synonymous to mean that I contribute nothing. Sorry if I do not fit the ideal mold for playing citizen, but I've always known that since Mafia likes to take out the less spoken players because PRs (unfortunately) generally do lurk and that the more outspoken, clearly pro-town players are the targets for protection roles, I've always found it in my best interest to make few posts still contributing all that I need to and hope that the Mafia shoots me thinking I'm PR.

You can argue that input can be more valuable than taking a bullet, but unfortunately, my faith in my scum hunting skills are pretty low, and I'd rather let a PR live for another day than live and still not know who's who.

Yes, I know I am trying to justify lurking, but this is the one thing that I refuse to budge on.

As for leaving CmG alive when he was pretty much cleared by the drug dealing, yes, that was a terrible move. But the night I shot JSaint, I was banking on the fact that Ash would shoot him, too. And by then it was too late to get rid of CmG. I figured my best bet by then was to hope Ash would overlook this fact.

Point taken, however. It was a complete fluke that I won.

[TheJackofSpades]

Considering that I pride myself in making few posts with the key information I need to convey to town just enough information to pull a win, it's a harsh blow being told I lurk as synonymous to mean that I contribute nothing. Sorry if I do not fit the ideal mold for playing citizen, but I've always known that since Mafia likes to take out the less spoken players because PRs (unfortunately) generally do lurk and that the more outspoken, clearly pro-town players are the targets for protection roles, I've always found it in my best interest to make few posts still contributing all that I need to and hope that the Mafia shoots me thinking I'm PR.

You can argue that input can be more valuable than taking a bullet, but unfortunately, my faith in my scum hunting skills are pretty low, and I'd rather let a PR live for another day than live and still not know who's who.

Yes, I know I am trying to justify lurking, but this is the one thing that I refuse to budge on.

As for leaving CmG alive when he was pretty much cleared by the drug dealing, yes, that was a terrible move. But the night I shot JSaint, I was banking on the fact that Ash would shoot him, too. And by then it was too late to get rid of CmG. I figured my best bet by then was to hope Ash would overlook this fact.

Point taken, however. It was a complete fluke that I won.

By setting the standard that citizens should lurk in order to appear as town PRs, you're harming your team by forcing your PRs to lurk in order to appear as citizens. I don't understand how anyone could think it good strategy to set the precedent for town play as lurking rather than active contribution. If everyone actively contributes, you can't differentiate between the two, citizens will take bullets for PRs, and the town is capitalizing on the town's biggest strength which is, you know, talking. You also force scum into the limelight by making them participate in order to blend in.

[JSaint]

Why shoot me? I'm the sheep newbie citizen that doesn't quite know much ^^.

[Sumikoko]

By setting the standard that citizens should lurk in order to appear as town PRs, you're harming your team by forcing your PRs to lurk in order to appear as citizens.

It doesn't make sense to you because you're misunderstanding the premise to my argument. You're assuming I'm trying to set a standard. I'm not. I'm the one being the nonconformist. My first game as legitimate citizen, I was very active. But I soon caught on that PRs weren't, and changed accordingly. Eventually, my happy medium just became contributing when I feel the need to, and not rapidfiring argument after argument.

I don't expect other people to change in accordance to how I play. I don't want them to. Most veterans to MFMs and I have a mutual understanding that I simply don't post often, but when I do, it's useful. Quality over quantity. I'm not trying to set a precedence for anything.

[Shaded]

Well, I for one had a really good time this game. Thanks for hosting it Clementine!

[TheJackofSpades]

It doesn't make sense to you because you're misunderstanding the premise to my argument. You're assuming I'm trying to set a standard. I'm not. I'm the one being the nonconformist. My first game as legitimate citizen, I was very active. But I soon caught on that PRs weren't, and changed accordingly. Eventually, my happy medium just became contributing when I feel the need to, and not rapidfiring argument after argument.

I don't expect other people to change in accordance to how I play. I don't want them to. Most veterans to MFMs and I have a mutual understanding that I simply don't post often, but when I do, it's useful. Quality over quantity. I'm not trying to set a precedence for anything.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm just telling you why playing that way is anti-town, and doing so is only adding to the degradation of the metagame into a lurkfest. You really shouldn't aspire to being a lurker, and I really don't buy into the fact that your fellow players should just accept that you get a free pass to it. It clearly isn't working out to their benefit from what I've seen. I think this is the reason why CmG says people side with you because you're a girl; I mean, why else would someone give you a free smokescreen as scum?

I won't go into the fact that you basically contributed nothing this game because I don't think it's particularly fair considering you were scum, I guess I would have to see "quality over quantity" in action when you're actually town. But when I think quality, I think making very informative posts, pushing lynches, dealing out extremely insightful observations to make up for the fact that you're not involved in shaping the flow of discussion.

I hope you don't take this as an insult to your skill as a player or anything, and I'm not trying to be arrogant or anything since I'm really not that great of a FM player. But I'd think eventually people will start to catch on to the fact that your strategy offers the town nothing while offering all sorts of free passes as scum, y'know?

[Sumikoko]

I'll take your thoughts into consideration, Jack. I thank you for your input to help me improve. Old habits do die hard, so I don't know if you'll see any improvement in my posting rate within the next few weeks. Though, really, heh, I think you view me a little too highly. I invite you to play another SFM/MFM with me, however.

[TheJackofSpades]

I'll take your thoughts into consideration, Jack. I thank you for your input to help me improve. Old habits do die hard, so I don't know if you'll see any improvement in my posting rate within the next few weeks. Though, really, heh, I think you view me a little too highly. I invite you to play another SFM/MFM with me, however.

Thank you for listening. I know how hard it is to try and tear yourself away from such a tactic. I tried, and failed, to do so starting in FM7 when the game shifted towards murdering every lurker possible after FM2, FM3, and FM5. It's not an easy thing to do, but it's the only way either of us will grow as a player when it comes to playing scum.

[Ash]

uh sorry i failed
i wiped some scum. no1 is perfect.
'nuff said

[Nick]

Considering that I pride myself in making few posts with the key information I need to convey to town just enough information to pull a win, it's a harsh blow being told I lurk as synonymous to mean that I contribute nothing.

Lurkers either do not contribute or is not actively helping to weed out scum. In this game you clearly lack the latter as town. Call it not desperate enough to win.

EDIT: Read Jack's. He hit it spot on.

[Ash]

Lurkers either do not contribute or is not actively helping to weed out scum. In this game you clearly lack the latter as town. Call it not desperate enough to win.

How many others lurked and were town? Exactly.

[Nick]

How many others lurked and were town? Exactly.

Indeed. I have nothing good to say about them. Then again I never expected much of them. They are too used to mass PR setups.

As for my post, I'm just agreeing with CmG. Read Jack's for the details.

On a side note, I always hated those who claim that Day1 is troll day. Amateurs.

[JSaint]

Hey!

*stares at Nick*