An Update on FMXII

[Forum Mafia GM]

As many of you probably have heard by now, FMXII has been ended prematurely due to a particular group of our more immature members of this community. I would like to take some time to talk about what happened, and why.

Early into Night 2 yesterday, upon learning that jester lynching forced jailor to execute, Claw gave up his role and his mafia to the jailor and ragequit. This would not have been an issue on it's own, because I had caught it pretty much immediately upon it occurring. Furthermore, being able to see invisible players, I also knew that the jailor had not. It would have ended there, and the only thing anyone would have missed out on was the jailor being able to talk to him. But of course, that didn't happen, because immaturity will always trump reason. Due to this, Claw decided he would battle the injustice of me modkilling him for gamethrowing(which he claims is WIFOM, but is one-hundred percent punishable in-game on sc2), he decided to tag it to his signature on his actual account as well. I am unsure of the details of what exactly transpired first, but when the smoke cleared, Claw was banned and FalseTruth had linked the information to TheWaaagh, and Muso. Somewhere along the lines, Ambient and Philie also saw it. So that is the first thing I'd like to clear up; the blame does not rest solely on Claw's shoulders, but FalseTruth's as well. Damage control was possible and had been done until the issue was forced by a third-party.

This was not the first incident that had occurred to this effect, as I am sure you are aware. The matter began when I removed False from my FM after he made it abundantly clear he would cause me problems(which, no surprise to myself, he has). Despite the game not even having started and having every right to do so, Muso and Claw took immediate offense to it. The whole altercation ended in an "impasse" of sorts, but I decided to allow the others to play because at the time I saw it simply as a very odd development of loyalty for no discernible reason.

Then the game started, and being a bit unknowledgeable as to how parent board permissions give access to children boards, as well as a miscommunication between Muso and myself on what he meant by "we can't post", I ended up accidently bestowing him with vision of all of the night boards. However, he then made the personal decision to click on each of them, and then click on their stickies, learning of all of the night chat identities and effectively destroying my game a first time. Frustrated at his complete disregard for the integrity of my setup, but ultimately resting blame on myself, I decided I would reroll and continue to allow him to play. Again, if I knew at the time what was going on, I probably would not have.

The reason, however, for me writing all of this, is that shortly before this incident with Claw occurred, I finally learned why these people who had pretty much no respect or interaction between each other a month or so before had suddenly banded to closely together. You see, and as a handful of you are already aware, FalseTruth, Muso, Claw, TheWaaagh, and, for some unexplainable reason, Yayap have decided to create their own forum to directly oppose DR and to drain his ad revenue, which currently is likely the only thing keeping him afloat. It can be found here: https://playmaf.com/forum

This fact is where this entire conflict stems from. Of that, I have no doubt. Be it a personal attack against me(Jack), despite it being pretty much unprovoked, or an attempt at lowering the perceived quality of the FMs hosted on this board in order to prepare to offer a "better" alternative, I do not know the answer. But what I do know is why these individuals should not be given the time of day because of it.

You see, them destroying my game for whatever selfish reasons they had does me no harm. My part in the game was done the moment I finished setting it up. Who they did harm, however, was anyone who cared about the game or the time they invested in it. The same people, you'll find, that they no doubt wish to pitch this new forum to.

But allow me to pose a question to you: Why should you support people who care so little about you that they would waste all of your time and effort, to spit directly into your face, in order to try and exact some sort of pitiful revenge at me before leaving COM forever? Why should you support a gamethrower who cares so little about others that he did not even stop to think about the fact that he was committing the same act that had been committed against him? Why should you support those who once thought that what Crimson did was warranting of both a ban and complete barring of participation from FM for months to come, but now both help propagate gamethrowing(FalseTruth), but also choose to work with them in the same trade that they committed a heinous crime in?

The answer is, if you have any sense of moral duty or self-respect, you shouldn't. What they did was apt to, to use a WoW analogy, looting the entire guild bank, before quitting the guild to form a new one. That action is generally looked upon by open disgust, and not by jumping ship afterwards and joining theirs because you thought it was so cool that they did so.

Now, the question is, and I will leave this up to you as a community, what should be done now? Should FMXII be ended, as restarting it for a second time is simply grating on the nerves of some. Should it be restarted, without those who cannot handle maturity in my presence? There are enough reserves that it's certainly possible to do so.

That choice is ultimately up to you.

[fm Arexjamin]

I vote for a restart of the FMXII, obviously without those who have caused problems. This was my first forum mafia, and I was looking forward to finally being able to participate. I don't think we should penalize the masses of players who were looking forward to this, because some fucktards decided to be dumb.

My vote is that you restart with new roles, post the roles from this game etc, and maybe anonize it next game to remove some of the meta headaches.

[fm Philie]

Restart this please

[fm TheWaaagh]

I'm a little confused as to what exactly I did to lower the integrity of your game. If you look in the cult night chat you'll see that I was relatively clueless to the destruction of everything around me until things had already transpired.

I know you (Jack) and I have argued before, but believe it or not I really don't hate you and I thought this game had gotten off to a fun start. Once you removed that metagame rule, of course.

[FalseTruth]

There is only one dumbass and that is claw. No one else was involved. Claw has been demoted and reprimanded on our site for his actions. No one else did anything and as much as you'd like to think that we all hate you, that is just simply not the case.

[Forum Mafia GM]

There is only one dumbass and that is claw. No one else was involved. Claw has been demoted and reprimanded on our site for his actions. No one else did anything and as much as you'd like to think that we all hate you, that is just simply not the case.

This is exactly how I knew you would respond.

Unfortunately, the fact that you spread his gamethrow to my players means that you are equally as guilty as he is.

Sorry to disappoint you.

[fm BorkBot]

I'm really not interested in the squabbles between the empire and the rebellion, I'll leave that to Luna in SW:TOR. I just want to play FM, so restart it please and give me an investigative role tyvm

Just out of curiosity though..

Once per day, you may choose to -jail a townsperson. If there is no lynch, you may sneak them into your cell and you shall have a private night chat with them where you are anonymous.

I'm confused. Doesn't this imply that jailing after a lynch was impossible and Claw shouldn't have been in jail after Blazer got lynched? Not saying I approve of whatever he did (I can't say because I'm not a witness and I'm not part of any skype groups who feed me with the latest gossip), but it looks like the crisis would've been averted if the jailor worked according to its description.

[fm Dont Shoot Me]

Restart please. I don't think you need to pose hypothetical questions nor preach to anyone. I think most of us can agree that Claw is a fucking douchebag. I wish he had been removed from the game the moment he started throwing a fit.

I also think we should give anonymous accounts and reapply the meta game restrictions. Trying to enforce meta game restrictions in a game where we have our COM accounts is kinda going about it ass backwards. If you want to enforce metagaming restriction rules you need to give everyone anonymous accounts, otherwise people know who a certain player is and will always be able to draw conclusions based on meta. Just disallow any posts that mention and/or reference COM names and metagaming is essentially eliminated. Players will be able to guess who is who but they will never know for sure.

[fm Dont Shoot Me]

By the way, I told all of you Blazer was jester.

[fm BorkBot]

I didn't care because I couldn't perform any actions at night anyway. Maybe I'd even get a kill off for being forced to visit.

[fm Dont Shoot Me]

I also second the motion that you reveal everyones roles.

[fm BorkBot]

I also think we should give anonymous accounts and reapply the meta game restrictions. Trying to enforce meta game restrictions in a game where we have our COM accounts is kinda going about it ass backwards. If you want to enforce metagaming restriction rules you need to give everyone anonymous accounts, otherwise people know who a certain player is and will always be able to draw conclusions based on meta. Just disallow any posts that mention and/or reference COM names and metagaming is essentially eliminated. Players will be able to guess who is who but they will never know for sure.

I agree with the above, by the way ^

And yeah, I'm curious about people's roles as well. I want to see how wrong I was.

[Stranger]

Fuck this shit. Fuck you, Claw. I liked you. I was really pumped for being Jailor.

So much goddamn mod drama in dis Forum.

[fm Ubernox]

Anon accounts were a clusterfuck. This is seriously discouraging me from engaging in FM in the future.

[fm Ubernox]

I'm really not interested in the squabbles between the empire and the rebellion, I'll leave that to Luna in SW:TOR. I just want to play FM, so restart it please and give me an investigative role tyvm

Just out of curiosity though..

Once per day, you may choose to -jail a townsperson. If there is no lynch, you may sneak them into your cell and you shall have a private night chat with them where you are anonymous.

I'm confused. Doesn't this imply that jailing after a lynch was impossible and Claw shouldn't have been in jail after Blazer got lynched? Not saying I approve of whatever he did (I can't say because I'm not a witness and I'm not part of any skype groups who feed me with the latest gossip), but it looks like the crisis would've been averted if the jailor worked according to its description.

This. Goddamnit Claw, you gamethrew on NOTHING. Hell, you could have had the moral highground if you had just hung in there.

[fm Rihfok]

I just now realized I need to use this account.
*facepalm*
I'd like to re-start the game, even though the situation after all of this is messed up.
I hope all of this won't end up in a forum split.

[Forum Mafia GM]

I'm really not interested in the squabbles between the empire and the rebellion, I'll leave that to Luna in SW:TOR. I just want to play FM, so restart it please and give me an investigative role tyvm

Just out of curiosity though..



I'm confused. Doesn't this imply that jailing after a lynch was impossible and Claw shouldn't have been in jail after Blazer got lynched? Not saying I approve of whatever he did (I can't say because I'm not a witness and I'm not part of any skype groups who feed me with the latest gossip), but it looks like the crisis would've been averted if the jailor worked according to its description.

We had decided that execution counted as a "night action", even though jailing itself was more of a "day action". As a compromise between the two actions, we decided to force the jailing and execution on the target that the jailor had chosen before the lynch. Otherwise, we'd have weird things like execution without jailing that really made little sense by themselves.

Why did we do this? 1. The Jailor shouldn't be immune to the consequences of dumb decisions. 2. It was simply to add more threat to a Jester lynch.

This was decided before FM started, by the way.

(Personally, I preferred the random execution without jailing, but that's because I'm weirdo named Cap. )

[fm Ubernox]

"They are concocting a forum to spite DR and start up another lame mafia community, stealing DR's add revenue, which is the only thing he's surviving on like the college student that he is. Link."

[fm Ubernox]

I do not regret lynching Blazer, and I would do it again.

[fm FrostByte]

I just now realized I need to use this account.
*facepalm*
I'd like to re-start the game, even though the situation after all of this is messed up.
I hope all of this won't end up in a forum split.

This
+ cutting whoever you think was involved in the gamethrow (obv claw, plus anyone who you knew was aware that what they were doing would spread confusion and fuck the game up [looking at you FT])
Everyone should have an anon fm [name] with their actual COM name for starters. None of this switched up crap.
Also, let us use invis ink plsssss?????????

[fm Creedkingsx]

Restart would be fine. The general part of this commuity is happy with most of the way things are right now. Claw canceled his account, so he won't be doing any type of damage to the game anymore. Just as well, simply don't allow any other players you think might insight a gamethrow with the game.
P.S. Claw is such a whiny bitch.

[fm Ubernox]

Well, https://playmaf.com/forum/ is really filling up fast.

[fm Rihfok]

I guess all of this started brewing when False and Muso left the mods.
At that point everything seemed fine to me, I personally like little rebellions.
Then they started doing all of this, it's the standard "our stuff is better" situation to pull everyone to their side.
Somewhat annoyed by this.
Maybe more than somewhat.
Doing that kind of stuff in secrecy already seems fishy to me.
I hope to see news about the game as well as in general about the situation in the morning.

[fm Goremancer]

Well I guess I wouldn't mind a restart. I will hit my head against my desk if I get serf again >.>

[fm BorkBot]

Why did we do this? 1. The Jailor shouldn't be immune to the consequences of dumb decisions. 2. It was simply to add more threat to a Jester lynch.

Lynching a potential jester early as town just didn't seem like a dumb decision looking at the setup and the jester's lynch effect description though. I would've gone along with the lynch as any town role except vigilante. Seems more like an inherent flaw in this particular jester mechanic. If I had been the jailor, I would have voted to lynch as well, but I'd be raging after I found out that my jail went through despite the lynch and that I'd be forced to execute. Bringing in new mechanics on the fly when they aren't really necessary usually isn't a good idea in my opinion, because players may have made decisions based on the info right in front of them. This seems similar to (but less severe than) what happened in FM VI, where a new mechanic was also introduced out of the blue that allowed a whole faction to stay competitive after they had been beaten fair and square.

Anyway, I'm disappointed with this conclusion so I'd rather see a different ending.

[Forum Mafia GM]

[4/25/2012 9:28:12 PM] Philie: what did u delete
[4/25/2012 9:30:48 PM] Philie: false copypacted the sig to me
[4/25/2012 9:30:49 PM] Philie: so
[4/25/2012 9:30:53 PM] Cap: ....
[4/25/2012 9:30:53 PM] Cap: lol
[4/25/2012 9:30:55 PM] Philie: do whatever it takes
[4/25/2012 9:31:58 PM] Philie: [Wednesday, April 25, 2012 9:30 PM] pokedwhenever:

<<< Auckmid, Magnaram and Ganon (Sorry guys, but honestly the shit that went down made that game pointless. I'm saving you time)were my teammates in FM12. Good luck modkilling this bitches. P.S. Rev can delete my account.

Ball is in your court, False. Tread wisely.

[Forum Mafia GM]

FYI, lynching Blazer was a huge boon to the cult, as vigi killed the enforcer and Dracula was force randomed onto the jailor.

Just saying.

[fm BorkBot]

Well, that's just dumb luck. It could also have randomed the paladin and the vigi on the cult leader and the cult would've been dead.

[fm Ubernox]

did the leave, or were they Demoted? I believe they were demoted.

I have noticed that this forum is stagnating. Degenerating. Rotting. There has been some faggotry from the hierarchy, and some mods that I don't respect etc. I'm not sure what to think of this situation, and that's because there is something that I like about their mission statement, and there is something that I do not.

FalseTruth and I created this forum with a vision in mind of an active community of people who enjoy playing forum mafia.

Having played mafia on other forums we were aware of what could go wrong with less than perfect managerial policies made by forum admins, so we envisioned a site that obliterates those issues from the equation to deliver a forum mafia experience that is top of its class.

Our vision is playmaf.com

Now, that's all very nice, but It's also a bit hypocritical. They lost the moral highground in my eyes thanks to their dubious actions in respect to all of this, and the seemingly unprofessional way in which they have gone about doing all this. They say they want to encourage a watertight FM environment, but they've just gone ahead and ruined this FM here.

This site was made by players, for players. If you want something changed, you can let us know. Your opinion matters to us.

This is an active community of people who enjoy playing forum mafia in a friendly atmosphere.
A community where you, the players, have a say in who moderates our forum.
A community that has a real voice in choosing how it wants its games to be designed and played out.

We play in an environment that facilitates the extension of mafia mechanics and rules beyond anything any of us have played thus far. For those of you who desire to play mafia at a more basic level, we also have the framework to cater to you.

This is topped with administrators who genuinely care about the community and the gaming experience it provides.

While it's all a bit pretentious, I can't say I don't like the idea of an end to all the secrets and politics that have been going on in sc2mafia for a while now. I also can't help but notice that many high-standing players have already jumped-ship.

I am in two minds; first, I despise the way dramatic, egotistical nonsense that permeates this whole situation.

However, it does seem that sc2mafia is showing signs of that slippery slope that ends in the death of a community. As I said previously, many of the players who comprise the life and soul of sc2mafia are becoming more and more active there, and less active here. If this is a schism based on drama between the moderators, I reserve the right to hold all involved in my scorn. On the other hand, I get the distinct feeling that I'm sitting on a sinking ship here, in which case I would happily jump-ship.

[fm Ubernox]

Also, playmaf is glitchy/laggy/ugly as fuck.

[fm Goremancer]

Also, playmaf is glitchy/laggy/ugly as fuck.

I must second this.

[fm Ubernox]

It feels a lot like playmaf is trying to pull the rug out from under sc2maf, with the invitations to all of the major players. If they'd been more open about it, and posed it as a peaceful exodus, I would be a lot more pleased with them.

Now, here's the next question: Are playmaf and sc2mafia mutually exclusive?

[fm Ubernox]

I expect this thread to be open to the public forum before long, Cappyjack.

[fm Sumikoko]

FYI, lynching Blazer was a huge boon to the cult, as vigi killed the enforcer and Dracula was force randomed onto the jailor.

Just saying.

FFFFFFFFFF-

[fm Blazer]

It feels a lot like playmaf is trying to pull the rug out from under sc2maf, with the invitations to all of the major players. If they'd been more open about it, and posed it as a peaceful exodus, I would be a lot more pleased with them.

Now, here's the next question: Are playmaf and sc2mafia mutually exclusive?

No. you can participate in both at the same time from the playmaf side.


I second the game restart...however I still want my jester win, I will probably get shot at night from it....I trolled and pplz got mad at me T.T lolol. I love you guys

[fm Ganondorf]

I would be OK with a game restart I guess..... I see you watching Claw. For the record, I was the Grave Robber (who attacked McPwnage night 1), MagmaRam was the Consigliere, Auckmid was the consort (blocked Blazer), and Claw was the one who suggested all of these actions :P

[fm BorkBot]

I was the godfather who commanded the death of Kromos. That was a good call at least, heh.

[fm Ganondorf]

I was the godfather who commanded the death of Kromos. That was a good call at least, heh.

Who were your minions? >.>

[fm BorkBot]

Elixir (trapper, did the kill), Rihfok (consort, blocked Muso) and Arexjamin (framer, framed Blazer as smith/disguiser/grave robber)

[fm Ganondorf]

Elixir (trapper, did the kill), Rihfok (consort, blocked Muso) and Arexjamin (framer, framed Blazer as smith/disguiser/grave robber)

I thought Rihfok was some sort of scum, but I never knew about the other 3 of you, so well done for Day 2 Why did you send Elixir to do the killing instead of Arexjamin (possibility to get 2 kills, also could use Elixir to stop anyone that investigates one of you)?

[fm Sumikoko]

LOL my guesses as cult invest were soooooo off. I thought for sure Claw was witch and Muso was one of the Mafia's gf's.

[fm BorkBot]

Because we didn't want the trapper to be found immediately. If two people visited his target, we'd be down to 3 members after one night. Too risky on a night 1 when actions are more or less random.

It would also leave people guessing if a trapper existed at all. And as Claw said, using an interceptor on one of our own would place the target under immediate scrutiny if the person who died left him in their last will, because it'd be a very obvious tactic to protect your own mafia.

The latter was much less of an issue when the only confirmed investigative role was dead, however.

[fm Ganondorf]

Because we didn't want the trapper to be found immediately. If two people visited his target, we'd be down to 3 members after one night. Too risky on a night 1 when actions are more or less random.

It would also leave people guessing if a trapper existed at all. And as Claw said, using an interceptor on one of our own would place the target under immediate scrutiny if the person who died left him in their last will, because it'd be a very obvious tactic to protect your own mafia.

The latter was much less of an issue when the only confirmed investigative role was dead, however.

Well, we'll just have to see what the mafia chooses to do in the re-re-roll... until then.

[fm BorkBot]

Yep.

Honestly though my scum list was way off as well.

I had Muso, Philie, Ambient, NorthStar as scum and Ganondorf (sidelining) and Lysergic (stumbling over his own arguments in his aggressiveness) as maybes.

[fm Creedkingsx]

It feels a lot like playmaf is trying to pull the rug out from under sc2maf, with the invitations to all of the major players. If they'd been more open about it, and posed it as a peaceful exodus, I would be a lot more pleased with them.

Now, here's the next question: Are playmaf and sc2mafia mutually exclusive?

I wouldn't think it to be a proble. Nothing wrong with playing multiple FM's at a time. Your reasoning for going to playmaf is up to you, and is most ikely as simple as ft and Muso are good at forum mafia and you want to play with them. Which is easily understandable as Muso claimed Witch, outright, and still didn't get lynched. lol

[fm BorkBot]

I actually think Ubernox is more interested in playing with Dust, Sumikoko, CmG, Zane etc. He's mainly an MFM player because he always gets killed/lynched early in the main FMs lol.

[fm Dont Shoot Me]

I was student and had pegged Raptorblaze as scum so I had selected him as my mentor, I would love to figure out what his role was...

[fm Creedkingsx]

I was student and had pegged Raptorblaze as scum so I had selected him as my mentor, I would love to figure out what his role was...

He was Ghost :P

[oops_ur_dead]

I have permanently stripped Claw and Falsetruth of their respected status. I will probably take further action later, but for now, this stands.

[fm Creedkingsx]

I have permanently stripped Claw and Falsetruth of their respected status. I will probably take further action later, but for now, this stands.

:o oops is alive!
Don't see you often