Rp's Lie Detector release!

[Logante]

The program has been released! This program will help keep track of your Mafia sessions and also rule out roles that are impossible to have in the current game as it progresses.

A sample screenshot:
https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/715/page03.png/

Please be aware this is a beta release...so expect potential bugs. If any, please email me them at dangearn22@hotmail.com

I have attached it to this thread as an attachment. (Thanks DR!)

NOTE: I have removed the old attachment and uploaded a new attachment. This one includes a better detailed README.TXT file and has a minor update to the .XML file.

Some of you may want to be able to edit the setup on the fly while the program is running. There IS a feature for this but it is currently hidden as it is still a work in progress. Only DR has access to this feature for now until there is time to finish the feature for release.

[Dark.Revenant]

You know, you can just zip and attach it.

[Computer]

HAHAHA i made the same thing but in excel, with all the colors too

[Logante]

You know, you can just zip and attach it.

I did not realize. Updated.

Thanks!

[Computer]

IMO i think its better to make a web version and p/host it, i dunno about you, but i wont DL and run a randomly posted exe file...

[Logante]

Well, it's not randomly posted. I've been posting about it for awhile giving updates when I'm able to.

See:
https://www.thecouncilofmages.com/for...pic,568.0.html


On top of that, DR trusts it enough to sticky it, but hey, it's your choice.

I wasn't going to release this publicly, but I figure that it would benefit the community as a while.

[Dark.Revenant]

One of the things I'd like to see in terms of functionality is to detach the roles list from the graveyard entirely; you don't know which random slot pertains to which role; the sheriff could be a predetermined sheriff, the random town, or the random all. The program should at least acknowledge that we don't know which revealed role goes with which list slot.

[oops_ur_dead]

Could you upload the source code?

[Computer]

.... thats not something you ask a programmer. Its like saying let me see your credit card for a sec

[Logante]

One of the things I'd like to see in terms of functionality is to detach the roles list from the graveyard entirely; you don't know which random slot pertains to which role; the sheriff could be a predetermined sheriff, the random town, or the random all. The program should at least acknowledge that we don't know which revealed role goes with which list slot.

You're saying like, you don't know if it was a random any, or an advanced town?

I will definitely be willing to have new features added to the program. I'll have this in the next version.

For now, and even after it's added...the following is what you should do:

You have to use a hierarchy system when you drag to graveyard. (mentioned in help file)

IE

Drag KNOWNS to graveyard first. That's because everything else is still a possibility, but you KNOW that role is dead.
Drag Detailed Randoms to graveyard second (advanced town over random any)
Drag the less detailed randoms after (random any)

This way, sure, you don't know if it was an advanced town or the random any....so there is still a possibility of everything in random any.

Since there is no way to know if it was a random any or an advanced town, just that the role is dead, you must take the most detailed ones to the graveyard first and work your way up to broader randoms.

IE

There is a KNOWN jester. Host set it up to have a jester
There is a random neutral.
There is a random any.
There is an advanced town.
There is an advanced mafia

The jester dies.

Drag JESTER to the graveyard...since you don't know if you killed the known jester or a random neutral. Because of this, there is still a possibility of random neutrals...so it must remain in play.

Okay, so now a Sheriff dies. You have to take the most detailed one, Advanced Town...since you don't know if it was the advanced town or random any...random any remains all possibilities. Because of this, you move Advanced Town to the graveyard. Whether or not it was a random any or advanced town doesn't matter. If the random any happened to be a Sheriff too, the next time a Sheriff dies, you move up and see Random Any is the only remaining spot. If a witch dies, you obviously know it has to be the random any, and you were correct on the Sheriff.



I don't really see any way around this without doing logical hierarchy graveyard drags.


I just updated the download attachment. This includes a better detail in the help file how to handle graveyard drags and also removes the "placeholder" HAPPY category in the XML. This was accidentally left in.

[Clawtrocity]

I'd like a save feature somewhere so I can add all the regular host's setups and options and just open them up instead of having to do the exclusions and lists while I'm in game.

So far so good though.

[Logante]

I'd like a save feature somewhere so I can add all the regular host's setups and options and just open them up instead of having to do the exclusions and lists while I'm in game.

So far so good though.

I'll try to have that next version. Also, we will try to put this up in a web format so a program is not necessary.

[oops_ur_dead]

.... thats not something you ask a programmer. Its like saying let me see your credit card for a sec

That was the worst analogy ever. I, for one, open source all my non-commercial shit because there's no point in keeping a free product closed-source.

[AdmiralCain]

IE

There is a KNOWN jester. Host set it up to have a jester
There is a random neutral.
There is a random any.
There is an advanced town.
There is an advanced mafia

The jester dies.

Drag JESTER to the graveyard...since you don't know if you killed the known jester or a random neutral. Because of this, there is still a possibility of random neutrals...so it must remain in play.

Okay, so now a Sheriff dies. You have to take the most detailed one, Advanced Town...since you don't know if it was the advanced town or random any...random any remains all possibilities. Because of this, you move Advanced Town to the graveyard. Whether or not it was a random any or advanced town doesn't matter. If the random any happened to be a Sheriff too, the next time a Sheriff dies, you move up and see Random Any is the only remaining spot. If a witch dies, you obviously know it has to be the random any, and you were correct on the Sheriff.

This seems like a good idea, but confusing to use, because players often don't have advanced/basic roles memorized. For example, in the above example, a sheriff is actually a basic town, so dragging the Advanced Town to the graveyard in the above situation would throw off the lie detector for the remainder of the roles, and resulting in catching a "lie" which is not a lie, right?

[Logante]

Guess I shouldn't have written that when I was half asleep...you're right, basic town, not advanced town.

Anyway, if you have a suggestion to overcome that, I'd be glad to hear it...but I couldn't think of anything outside of a hierarchy.

Perhaps we could add in a "suggested" drag...so if they drag a random any to the graveyard for the Sheriff, it would suggest a basic town gets dragged. I'm not really sure the best way to handle this. Perhaps remove the whole "drag to graveyard and pick who it was" and instead design it where you simply add to graveyard, it asks what they were, and it removes them from the list for you with the hierarchy. What do you think?

For example:

Add to graveyard -> Sheriff. It checks if Sheriff is even a possibility. If so, it then would first see if a Sheriff exists in the knowns list. If not, it moves on and checks if there is a basic town. If not, it moves the random any to the graveyard.

[wightsnow]

In terms of predetermined sheriff, vs basic rand town, vs rand any, always remove the most specific first.

Perhaps instead of a drag feature, have an option to add a role to the graveyard and have the program remove the relevant role from the active list (I know that can be a lot of work, so minor suggestion).

I think roles changing can also throw the lie detector off (especially if it was automatic like my previous sugggestion); Ex: Executioner becomes Jester, Consigliere to Godfather or Mafioso, Citizen to Mason, Mason to Mason Leader, etc.

[Logante]

In terms of predetermined sheriff, vs basic rand town, vs rand any, always remove the most specific first.

Perhaps instead of a drag feature, have an option to add a role to the graveyard and have the program remove the relevant role from the active list (I know that can be a lot of work, so minor suggestion).

I think roles changing can also throw the lie detector off (especially if it was automatic like my previous sugggestion); Ex: Executioner becomes Jester, Consigliere to Godfather or Mafioso, Citizen to Mason, Mason to Mason Leader, etc.

For the first part, I just suggested that in the reply before yours.

As for the second, the game is built on unknowns. It's very difficult to "pin down" things in this game due to how it is created (ie roles can change on the fly). I'll take suggestions on how to handle the second.

[Leafie]

Ahh, but doesn't this ruin the fun? :P

[AdmiralCain]

Perhaps remove the whole "drag to graveyard and pick who it was" and instead design it where you simply add to graveyard, it asks what they were, and it removes them from the list for you with the hierarchy. What do you think?

This is an excellent idea and would make the program much easier to use for players who are new, or playing while tired or stoned.

[Figgy20000]

I'm having a huge amount of trouble figuring out how to use this. I can't seem to get anything into the play Field, regardless of what I do. The help menu isn't helping me at all.

Can anyone give a quick tutorial?

[SilentShadow]

I'd find this somewhat useful if I could actually tab in a starcraft without murdering my computer and not cause any lag. But unfortuantly that hoping too much from my shit box computer that I own, so I basically can't use this. I'll just stick to intuition and logic, shit that apparently no pubbie has.

[Plasma]

Ahh, but doesn't this ruin the fun? :P

Kinda agree with you there on that.. This makes the game so methodical and clinical.
There needs to be elements of human folly and cockups

[RiVenoX]

i'd like the ability to right click a random role and assign it a known value. like say theres 2 random neutrals and theres an sk kill, right click and assign a random neutral to sk.

the next night i get witched, assign witch to the other

also the ability to do that while putting a "?" or "*" next to the role for when we're not 100% sure but someone claims a role but hasn't proven it would be handy as well

[NorthStar]

In a sense, do you think this would be slightly cheating even though it states the obvious? I mean a majority of public players I encounter make no use of logic in any way, but utilizing this tool, they won't need to, and be able to have the same cunning edge as an intelligent player.

[AdmiralCain]

In a sense, do you think this would be slightly cheating even though it states the obvious? I mean a majority of public players I encounter make no use of logic in any way, but utilizing this tool, they won't need to, and be able to have the same cunning edge as an intelligent player.

By the same reasoning, using your brain is, in a sense, cheating, because most public players have no brains to speak of.

[Logante]

I understand there are some new classes. The program is designed to have nearly full customization. You just have to edit the XML file and added in or modify whatever new roles or alignments you wish.

I've gotten a few requests to change the program. I will do so and make some updates when I have time to do so. When I have that time, I'll also go ahead and update the XML release with the new roles, as well.

It's starting to get a bit difficult being able to tie down everything with so many possible changes (such as roles changing into other roles and whatnot).

[FiveOneFour]

Having this in a working excel would be so great.
Cant use .exe

[Metnik]

I'm having a huge amount of trouble figuring out how to use this. I can't seem to get anything into the play Field, regardless of what I do. The help menu isn't helping me at all.

Can anyone give a quick tutorial?

I agree. I don't understand it in the slightest.

[jaczac]

Just a request, but could you make a mac version? mabe with mono?

[YetiSwarm]

This program appears to no longer be attached. Is there somewhere I can get a copy of it?

[jaczac]

This is gone.

P.S. when u write it again, do it in C so i can mono it.

[BorkBot]

Don't resurrect this please. For once I agree with NorthStar; it's cheating. Use your brain instead.

[oops_ur_dead]

P.S. when u write it again, do it in C so i can mono it.

do it in C so i can mono it.

C

mono

wat.

[jaczac]

in c or c+ or SOMETHING you can use a program, mono, to run it in mac.

Dman macs...

[Mongoose]

I don't see the attachment anywhere, am I blind?

[Portaloo]

...OR you could get your lazy ass up and use logic, like the day since i first started playing sc2 mafia (roughly almost a year ago). Just explain it to the townies why or why not someone can or cannot be a certain role based on given roles the host gave you and just lynch whoever. Really, i see no use in this.

edit: and it also ruins the fun in the game where you actually use your brain.

[Xife]

Yea sounds like mafia will just turn into a game of inputting info and looking at the result. Why would you want to do this? its not natural at all and now i can post that computer uses a program instead of actually playing...

[Rhodikus]

Is anyone else not seeing a attachment or was this removed?

[MagmaRam]

Is anyone else not seeing a attachment or was this removed?

I don't see an attachment either.

[Trenix]

In my opinion, if this is a feature that is not implemented with the game, then it's considered cheating. Think about it, you're using a program to give you the upperhand of each mafia session. This is a game about using your head, not your program.

[GideonBarish]

The downside to that is that if you set up F11 or any setup that actually REQUIRES you to use your head, people quit before it even starts. Most people only play this game to use their powers, not their heads. If someone gets citizen? I'd say a good 70% of the time they rage quit. It's obnoxious that people don't understand how the game actually works, but instead just want to tell others how they DEMAND it to work.

[Dijit]

K i have been looking for an hour, how do I download this thing?